Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - DADDY SAKURAI'S WILD RIDE HAS CONCLUDED

[Solly]

2 hours ago, Detective Kaito said:

I know the fans can be really annoying and insensitive sometimes, but when Sakurai makes the top picks of newcomers from Smash (Isaac, Shadow, Skull Kid. And even my top picks like Knuckles, Zero, Waluigi, and Shovel Knight) Assist Trophies, and instead uses his precious time and resources to work on Piranha Plant, then he has to expect some backlash.

I wasn't saying he's above criticism or that people weren't allowed to get salty (I will continue to defiantly hope for Waluigi). What I was getting at was that if you look at just about any one of Sakurai's tweets, the replies are full of people just randomly posting pictures of characters they like, and/or begging for them to be made playable, and the vast majority of the time they're from non-Japanese accounts. People need to learn to behave themselves. 

55 minutes ago, FFWF said:

Piranha Plant seems pretty tailor-made for its status as an early-purchase bonus, as a peripheral Mario character with a particularly wacky non-standard moveset; I think judging it on the same level as either the base roster or the other DLC characters is not quite fair when it was probably budgeted for in a category of its own.  My inclination would be to say that Sakurai probably wanted to specifically avoid having the early-purchase bonus character be someone highly-requested, as opposed to something recognisably optional.

Agreed. They also don't seem to come with a stage like the other fighters, so it wouldn't make sense to sell them in one of the standard DLC packs. 

[Detective Kaito]

1 hour ago, FFWF said:

Piranha Plant seems pretty tailor-made for its status as an early-purchase bonus, as a peripheral Mario character with a particularly wacky non-standard moveset; I think judging it on the same level as either the base roster or the other DLC characters is not quite fair when it was probably budgeted for in a category of its own.  My inclination would be to say that Sakurai probably wanted to specifically avoid having the early-purchase bonus character be someone highly-requested, as opposed to something recognisably optional.

I think a character like Toad would've been perfect for that role.

Captain Toad or any kind of Toad really. He's a recognizable character the people love and seems to be fairly requested, but I'm not sure he would be good for a DLC pack. Therefore, having him as a limited-time offer character would've been perfect.

[Marcello]

Piranha Plant is going to be available for purchase like any other DLC character, so I don't really get that reasoning.

[Meta77]

They said dlc would be totally new aka not from existing franchises with characters in the game so no walugi or toads. Probably no more square

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 minute ago, Meta77 said:

They said dlc would be totally new aka not from existing franchises with characters in the game so no walugi or toads. Probably no more square

Uhhhhhhh

You do know that Square is a company and not a franchise right?

[Meta77]

I do but the way he worded it out meant no franchise or company already in game. All would be from new property

[Marcello]

Pretty sure by brand new they were referencing the fact that Smash 4's DLC consisted of 3 returning characters, which is obviously not possible here.

[Detective Kaito]

10 minutes ago, Marcello said:

Piranha Plant is going to be available for purchase like any other DLC character, so I don't really get that reasoning.

I said "DLC Pack", which includes a character, stage, and a bunch of music.

[Marcello]

1 minute ago, Detective Kaito said:

I said "DLC Pack", which includes a character, stage, and a bunch of music.

My post was directed at FFWF.

[Diogenes]

14 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

They said dlc would be totally new aka not from existing franchises with characters in the game so no walugi or toads. Probably no more square

Where did they say this? I remember them saying no echos, but nothing about them only picking characters from series that aren't already in.

[Salamander]

19 minutes ago, Marcello said:

Piranha Plant is going to be available for purchase like any other DLC character, so I don't really get that reasoning.

What I mean is that I suspect Nintendo asked Sakurai to make one character specifically to be an early-purchase bonus, and Sakurai chose and designed the character specifically with that criterion in mind, rather than simply drawing from the wider pool of obvious characters people want.  Making a non-standard fighter, one with name recognition value and that would be nice to have but not something anyone was raving for, is to my mind the point; a character people wouldn't necessarily go out of their way to pay for but would be happy to get as an extra.  In this light, the significance is not that Piranha Plant will be available to purchase, but rather that most people won't have to purchase it.

That's my interpretation, anyway.

[Detective Kaito]

20 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

They said dlc would be totally new aka not from existing franchises with characters in the game so no walugi or toads. Probably no more square

They never said that. Currently, Vergeben is saying that the first DLC will be a Square Enix character, and he has never been wrong so far.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

44 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I do but the way he worded it out meant no franchise or company already in game. All would be from new property

They said neither of those things. Where are you even coming from on all of this??

[Salamander]

I'm referring directly to the official Direct upload, and the specific wording is (voiced) "Since we already included every fighter from the past games, that means there are no more fighters to include, unless we develop new fighters from scratch - and we're not talking about Echo Fighters", and (subtitled) "We're developing new challengers from scratch".  In other words, what they mean is that new characters will not be based on any character which already exists in the game; but the door is still wide open to additional characters from pre-represented franchises.

...With that said, I would suggest that the fact that each new pack will specifically include multiple music tracks would seem to favour fighters from presently unrepresented series.  I do think the fact that Nintendo decided on a selection specifically for DLC points to all of the DLC fighters being new, recognisable names - rather than promotions or leftovers.

[Meta77]

2 hours ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

They said neither of those things. Where are you even coming from on all of this??

Its how I read what ffwf just said taken from the direct

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 hour ago, FFWF said:

...With that said, I would suggest that the fact that each new pack will specifically include multiple music tracks would seem to favour fighters from presently unrepresented series.  I do think the fact that Nintendo decided on a selection specifically for DLC points to all of the DLC fighters being new, recognisable names - rather than promotions or leftovers.

Hmm. Does ARMS have any music tracks that have been spotted within the game already?

[JezMM]

3 hours ago, Detective Kaito said:

I think a character like Toad would've been perfect for that role.

Captain Toad or any kind of Toad really. He's a recognizable character the people love and seems to be fairly requested, but I'm not sure he would be good for a DLC pack. Therefore, having him as a limited-time offer character would've been perfect.

Not gonna lie, Toad would've been boring as hell.  I love Pirahna Plant for it's surprise factor.  I think if Toad had got in as the DLC bonus I'd just be like "wow, didn't expect them, okay."

Pirahna Plant I was like "wow, didn't expect them, okay!?!"

And like... I'm sure no-one thinks ill of Toad but I don't think I've ever heard anyone express something so bold as "love" for the guy.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Suddenly I just realized. Nintnedo calling the shots and Phil Spencer supposedly having a talk with them during lunch to discuss stuff, now takes on a whole new perspective. Assuming say, DLC of Master Chief or Banjo-Kazooie were being deliberated, discussed, or prepared for. Especially if they'd already settled on one or the other.

[KHCast]

29 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Not gonna lie, Toad would've been boring as hell.  I love Pirahna Plant for it's surprise factor.  I think if Toad had got in as the DLC bonus I'd just be like "wow, didn't expect them, okay."

Pirahna Plant I was like "wow, didn't expect them, okay!?!"

And like... I'm sure no-one thinks ill of Toad but I don't think I've ever heard anyone express something so bold as "love" for the guy.

Shy guy would have been a nice middle ground choice if anything, but I’m down with the PP as well 

[JezMM]

49 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Shy guy would have been a nice middle ground choice if anything, but I’m down with the PP as well 

Shy Guy is one of my fave Mario "races" for sure (and the SMB2 fanservice potential... mmmmm)... but I think Pirahna is a way more funny/interesting choice and just looks great too.  Shy Guys are... as the name suggests, fairly reserved in their animation.  Plant is a lot more manic and has a lot more potential for slapstick and big animations, which lends itself to a great surprise character.

 

Also I guess you could also say that Shy Guy is already in Smash Bros 20 times over (and it could've been 28 if Rainbow Road had gotten in sigh).

[Teoskaven]

5 hours ago, Detective Kaito said:

I think a character like Toad would've been perfect for that role.

Captain Toad or any kind of Toad really. He's a recognizable character the people love and seems to be fairly requested, but I'm not sure he would be good for a DLC pack. Therefore, having him as a limited-time offer character would've been perfect.

I still don't understand why fanlove aside people had high expectations for Captain Toad to be playable. A character that cannot jump, moves like a snail and has no punch power on its own really needs a miracle to be at the very least decently playable in a game where power, speed and air control are everything. I know Sakurai can make a surprise moveset out of a rock, but i can't fathom how he could have worked Captain Toad without destroying what the character is.
A normal Toad obviously makes much more sense, having seen them being capable of moving and fighting properly since SMB2, so there is stuff to build from there.

[MetalSkulkBane]

I doubt they'll put Paper Mario or Captain Toad. Picking Daisy and no Waluigi was slap to the face. Adding Piranha was kick in the crotch. 3rd Mario character would be peeing  on his corpse and dancing on his grave.

I still think Shantae is 90% in. Sora and Banjo might have legal issues, but people want Shantae in Smash, her owners want Shantae in Smash, so why not put her in?

(I also wish they putted Klonoa, but I'm the only one)

[G-Force]

8 hours ago, Marcello said:

All I know is that I'll probably be salty about all of these picks.

I guess they can't be worse than Piranha Plant at least.

 

8 hours ago, Detective Kaito said:

I know the fans can be really annoying and insensitive sometimes, but when Sakurai makes the top picks of newcomers from Smash (Isaac, Shadow, Skull Kid. And even my top picks like Knuckles, Zero, Waluigi, and Shovel Knight) Assist Trophies, and instead uses his precious time and resources to work on Piranha Plant, then he has to expect some backlash.

I love Sakurai, man. But sometimes he makes absolutely idiotic decisions.

Surely I'm not the only person who-

6 hours ago, FFWF said:

Piranha Plant seems pretty tailor-made for its status as an early-purchase bonus, as a peripheral Mario character with a particularly wacky non-standard moveset; I think judging it on the same level as either the base roster or the other DLC characters is not quite fair when it was probably budgeted for in a category of its own.  My inclination would be to say that Sakurai probably wanted to specifically avoid having the early-purchase bonus character be someone highly-requested, as opposed to something recognisably optional.

Well, shit.  That's basically what I wanted to say.

Piranha Plant is INTENTIONALLY stupid.  He's an extra character, which is good incentive to buy the game early, but he's also stupid, so no one will care if they miss getting him for free.  And anyone who does care about having him will be able to just buy him later on anyway.

5 hours ago, Detective Kaito said:

I think a character like Toad would've been perfect for that role.

Captain Toad or any kind of Toad really. He's a recognizable character the people love and seems to be fairly requested, but I'm not sure he would be good for a DLC pack. Therefore, having him as a limited-time offer character would've been perfect.

Yeah, except you actually CARE about Toad, otherwise you wouldn't consider him a better choice.  Piranha Plant is designed to be expendable.  He's lame enough to be offered as a freebie.  He's lame enough for people to not care that he isn't in the base roster.  He's lame enough that people won't be bothered when he isn't free anymore.

 

And, thinking about it, honestly?  Piranha Plant might actually have more to offer as a unique character than any Toad does, but that's not the point I'm trying to make here.

[JezMM]

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I still think Shantae is 90% in. Sora and Banjo might have legal issues, but people want Shantae in Smash, her owners want Shantae in Smash, so why not put her in?

Not enough people.  Shantae has a much more obvious fanbase because of what a fanart-friendly series it is, but Shovel Knight is the much bigger success story as a game, and he only managed Assist Trophy status (which of course, to say "only" is a bit disrespectful to how cool that is for an indie developer).

It might be hard to imagine with all the deconfirmations the last direct brought, but one has to assume that the 5 DLC fighters chosen are more well-known than Shantae.

[Salamander]

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Picking Daisy and no Waluigi was slap to the face.

And who would Waluigi have been an echo of, exactly?  They picked Daisy because it was easy.