Jump to content
Awoo.

Sonic Mania Plus: Official Reveal (Coming July 17th) - NO SPOILERS


Sonictrainer

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, JezMM said:

I wouldn't expect TOO much like this.  Fans tend to clamour to get their hands on any cut content they can find without consideration for the fact that there are often reasons things get cut beyond time restraints.  Honestly I love the Tails animation as do many, but it DOES seem like the sort of thing Sonic Team might've stepped in on and said "no that's a bit too silly, Tails wouldn't use his tails like that".

I dunno, that looks like something Tails would do ^^

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, JezMM said:

I mean we've been over this enough times but... Colours and Lost World also have Super Sonic despite no emeralds in the story and he was a standard unlockable there.

I wouldn't expect TOO much like this.  Fans tend to clamour to get their hands on any cut content they can find without consideration for the fact that there are often reasons things get cut beyond time restraints.  Honestly I love the Tails animation as do many, but it DOES seem like the sort of thing Sonic Team might've stepped in on and said "no that's a bit too silly, Tails wouldn't use his tails like that".

Likewise while Hyper forms could be a neat addition to make Encore Mode a bit more special, it's possible Sonic Team might want to stick to their guns on keeping them in the past so we don't have a fresh revival of people expecting them in every game again.

Colors featured the emeralds physically as collectibles, and SLW did too. Would actually bring up too many questions if Forces actually had the emeralds physically collectible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jango said:

I dunno, that looks like something Tails would do ^^

I was gonna argue against this but I guess as of Lost World, we have a Sonic-Team-sanctioned game where Tails uses his tails to achieve things in a goofy manner so... yeah I agree now actually.  Still seems like something I wouldn't be surprised if Sonic Team were just like, arbitrarily against it though, I dunno.

41 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Colors featured the emeralds physically as collectibles, and SLW did too. Would actually bring up too many questions if Forces actually had the emeralds physically collectible.

Neither Game Land nor collecting Red Rings have anything to do with the story though.  Forces could have just have easily made emeralds appear on the world map for you to "collect" upon getting all Red Rings in one of the seven areas, just like Lost World did, or they could have had them waiting at the end of the bonus stages that you unlock via Red Rings, just like Colours did.  It wouldn't raise any questions at all.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, FFWF said:

The major thing I'm expecting from Encore Mode is for there to be routes exclusive to Mighty and Ray's abilities; difficult to say if a full campaign with cutscenes is realistic, certainly I think new zones are unlikely or they'd have mentioned them already - though maybe one really-final-final might just be conceivable...  But generally it sounds like it'll be a sort of New Game+.  That's more or less what's implied by the "encore" name.

I rewatched the panel on YouTube, Iizuka actually says there are visual changes and new routes. Plus "and more" so I'm expecting a couple of new unannounced features.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, JezMM said:

I was gonna argue against this but I guess as of Lost World, we have a Sonic-Team-sanctioned game where Tails uses his tails to achieve things in a goofy manner so... yeah I agree now actually.  Still seems like something I wouldn't be surprised if Sonic Team were just like, arbitrarily against it though, I dunno.

Neither Game Land nor collecting Red Rings have anything to do with the story though.  Forces could have just have easily made emeralds appear on the world map for you to "collect" upon getting all Red Rings in one of the seven areas, just like Lost World did, or they could have had them waiting at the end of the bonus stages that you unlock via Red Rings, just like Colours did.  It wouldn't raise any questions at all.

That is a bit justified by Colors and Lost World being smaller-scale, more mild conflicts than even Heroes, Unleashed, or 1. The Emeralds had to stay out unless things escalated. With something as big as Forces, it has to be all or nothing concerning the emeralds. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Miragnarok said:

That is a bit justified by Colors and Lost World being smaller-scale, more mild conflicts than even Heroes, Unleashed, or 1. The Emeralds had to stay out unless things escalated. With something as big as Forces, it has to be all or nothing concerning the emeralds. 

Again I really don't see why you believe in these arbitrary rules for the franchise.  The emeralds and super sonic were non-canon bonuses in Colours and Lost World and they could've been in Forces too.  Super Sonic doesn't need to be downloadable in our reality to justify including him in games that don't utilise the chaos emeralds in their storylines.

  • Thumbs Up 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Knuckles on the other hand, is closer to how he is portraited in the Mega Drive comics than the games. But I assume we have to consider everyone's personality based on the classic games, as Mania takes place soon after Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Whatever how any of them act in Lost World, using the same example as @JezMM, may or may not be a reflex on how they should or could act in Mania.

Anyways, just fix the missing transitions Team Mania :V

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I have to agree that I would have liked to see Amy added. Seems odd to only add two new characters when there were three to begin with.

I expect Ray will jump higher and glide like Knuckles but won't be able to bash through walls or climb, while Mighty will have a shorter jump like Knuckles, bash through walls, but otherwise play like Sonic.

I do expect there will be added animations/cutscenes for both of them, though. I wonder if we'll be able to play as combinations of all five through the Extras option?

  • Nice Smile 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jango said:

Knuckles on the other hand, is closer to how he is portraited in the Mega Drive comics than the games. But I assume we have to consider everyone's personality based on the classic games, as Mania takes place soon after Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Whatever how any of them act in Lost World, using the same example as @JezMM, may or may not be a reflex on how they should or could act in Mania.

Anyways, just fix the missing transitions Team Mania :V

Yes; hopefully the zone transitions being completed will be mentioned in one of the live streams.  It is a bit surprising that it wasn't already mentioned except that I am not sure how they would have found the right words to highlight it without also mentioning that the original game didn't have them, which could have felt out of place in a press conference, but, it would be easy and welcome to mention in a more casual setting!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Level compromise isn't necessary for Amy Rose the Hedgehog. Seriously, just make it so she needs to do the insta-shield with her plinko plinko hammer to attack enemies and she can only do the super peel-out...it's not that hard.

Her two other abilities aren't necessary for a classic style game and nobody needs to get extra work figuring out how she should be playable.

That would work for you maybe, but it'd inevitably lead to people complaining that she didn't play in a style true to the character, or felt like an after thought. It's like people who pretend nobody would kick off if a Sonic 3 remake dropped half the OST for the wank PC tracks. 

Re: Cut content - Jez put it best, but it's usually cut for a reason. Already seen folks asking for the Egg Janken boss to be added back in, despite Stealth confirming that a) it was the first boss made for the game as a test and b ) it was cut bc it wasn't actually fun. It's not always about time constraints. 

  • Thumbs Up 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, JosepHenry said:

I think Amy could work well with her Advance moveset, it worked well in hacks, Sonic 3 and Amy Rose made by @E-122-Psi is a nice example.

Aye, but as Psi himself already said - it'd take adjustments to the structure of the game, due to how Mania is designed compared to the other Classic titles. 

  • Thumbs Up 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

That would work for you maybe, but it'd inevitably lead to people complaining that she didn't play in a style true to the character, or felt like an after thought. It's like people who pretend nobody would kick off if a Sonic 3 remake dropped half the OST for the wank PC tracks. 

What would be true to the character, exactly? She doesn't have a defined "classic" moveset and with Mania going with one-button controls and a limited number of moves they couldn't just straight port over her gameplay from the Advances. Giving her a hammer-based instashield and a peelout instead of a spindash seems to hit the two biggest points of her gameplay (having a hammer and her movement being relatively normal compared to the series' superfast buzzsaws) while still being in line with Mania's other characters.

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

Aye, but as Psi himself already said - it'd take adjustments to the structure of the game, due to how Mania is designed compared to the other Classic titles. 

That's true, I can see that Amy struggling through Mania's level design, I think if a next game has level design based around her Advance moveset it could well. Doesn't hurt to give her an extra button.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I say just give Amy a normal spin jump like any characters, plus her hammer skills, and it's done, there shouldn't be any problems, the normal jump is what made her harder to play in Advance, but also made her unique, I guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Jack of Tangles said:

I say just give Amy a normal spin jump like any characters, plus her hammer skills, and it's done, there shouldn't be any problems, the normal jump is what made her harder to play in Advance, but also made her unique, I guess.

Her Advance moveset is really fun in classic form. The way she can gain height is just pure fun.

Bouncing on enemies and bosses with a Hammer Spin, using her hammer on springs ( That could be used for extra paths) also her Mario 64 esque somersault that makes her jump really high. Her normal jump gave a balance to her, if she had a spin jump and all of her hammer abilities she would be a bit too broken. She already is though.

In Advance she was a bit of a chore to play as, but I don't know, Psi made her twice as fun to play as in the classics.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/17/2018 at 1:12 PM, Blue Blood said:

Chances are that Mighty and Ray will have unique movesets of their own. I don't know why so many people are expecting them to just be clones or reskins.

 

Because it's a possibility? If they can reuse chunks of other content, it wouldn't be surprising for skins. Anything can happen in the development stage but it's quite likely they'll be unique. Probably similar to Megamix methinks...

 

On 3/17/2018 at 1:12 PM, Blue Blood said:

What do you mean about Knuckles and Tails "still not being fixed" though? 

I'm not going to start a conversation on the mechanics, physics and handling of these characters as I find the topic to not suit what I would like to express. To get an idea however;

Indeed these playable characters just generally aren't that good in my view. They work due to the wonderful physics of the game and by all means an elegant design of levels the developers have created yet everything from the stiff gliding and uninteresting "mountain" climbing of Knuckles and the momentum breaking fall he gains when you discontinue gliding that plagues him to Tail's singular mechanic(He gets tired after flying too much, a pet peeve of mine) which is every bit as redundant as watching a woodpecker peck for an hour. "Slightly Entertaining" to play is what I describe them when looking at their mechanics *specifically*, not the general homogenization they acquired(jump, spin dash etc). This especially goes against them when Tails or knuckles are unable to receive the ambidextrous "Tri-Forcian" esque power grabs that can shift up an entire play-through despite the simplicity in their inherent usages(Bubble for bounce, Fire for "Boost" Electricity for Double Jump and ring grabs). Power Ups in Sonic 3 to Mania have provided plenty of diverse usefulness with even just one. Fire shield for instance, allows Sonic to not only "boost" with a burst of speed which includes a decent hitbox size but can finally obtain control of his air speed and direction. Imagine this with the rest of the "Double Dubious Downers"(Triple D) but allocates themselves specifically for them.

Without providing these necessary requirements, there just isn't any point in keeping them(No Drop Dash equivalent?). I've reiterated this over and over again; The Advance Series(specific flaws aside) fixed most of the issues I had.Ah...Well its far more fixed in Sonic Advance 3 to boot.8

Went more than I should have but this is what I mean by not being "fixed". They were never complete in the first place even if fans believe Sonic 3K is "p-p-....*perfection*"(lol). Great template and execution but still needs work.

As for the new characters...Well, all I can say is that if they are more unique with less of mechanical strikes, which is good might prove to me Tails and Knuckle's was all for nostalgia's sake, not for moving forward. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

What would be true to the character, exactly? She doesn't have a defined "classic" moveset and with Mania going with one-button controls and a limited number of moves they couldn't just straight port over her gameplay from the Advances. Giving her a hammer-based instashield and a peelout instead of a spindash seems to hit the two biggest points of her gameplay (having a hammer and her movement being relatively normal compared to the series' superfast buzzsaws) while still being in line with Mania's other characters.

Amy's Advance moveset was designed more in line with that games level design than Mania's though, mainly her being a two-button character with her hammer. She didn't have a spin jump, and her air hammer attack gave her higher momentum than a normal insta-shield. Her hammer also let her get higher air time when used on a Spring. 

 

Mania's level design doesn't really seem designed like that, so you risk losing what made Amy unique compared to everyone else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Amy's Advance moveset was designed more in line with that games level design than Mania's though, mainly her being a two-button character with her hammer. She didn't have a spin jump, and her air hammer attack gave her higher momentum than a normal insta-shield. Her hammer also let her get higher air time when used on a Spring. 

 

Mania's level design doesn't really seem designed like that, so you risk losing what made Amy unique compared to everyone else.

That's what I'm saying; Advance Amy would not work in Mania, so you need to adapt her key traits in different ways.

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could see Amy's move set being workable, but the key roadblock is that to make her work, you would likely not only have to intricately program her, but reprogram a lot of the game's assets to respond to her properly since her attacks aren't standard to the rest of the playable characters. In other words putting Amy in there would likely be way more than just a simple character patch.

When I did the Amy hacks, I had to not only program Amy's move set but go through the programming of nearly every interactive object in the games to respond to her, and these got more elaborate and convoluted with each game.

  • Thumbs Up 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does depend on how things work for them on the backend though.  What is a convoluted problem in a romhack is not necessarily going to be as much of an issue in a modern game that has been designed to be welcoming to updates and additions down the line - assuming they had the foresight to design it as such.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m looking forward to being able to play as Mighty and Ray for the first time, all the extra content and a physical box to have beside my collectors edition, Thank you SEGA ?

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If they wanted to add Amy Rose to Mania she doesn't need help from the stage like in Advance she could spin her hammer while not losing her speed being able to attack enemies and keep her momentum using that as her special action. Her animations can be extreme girly setting her more apart from the others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Her animations can be extreme girly setting her more apart from the others.

They already were, dude. Have you seen the way she grinds down rails in Advance 1?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So..if Encore Mode is a remix or continuation of sorts with Mighty & Ray, do you think it might be like Knuckles in Sonic 3K, their story is after the main Mania Mode? Could they potentially finish off the HBH's since they didn't seem to get destroyed over the course of the main game? Or do you think the HBH's will be saved for a potential sequel?

Also as someone on Twitter mentioned earlier today...Is this now cannon? :P

IMG_20180319_161410.thumb.jpg.dc4374e95fd95405b1567178208ee7ef.jpg

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.