Sonic Mania Plus: Official Reveal (Coming July 17th) - NO SPOILERS

[Multikaris]

7 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Or roughly 16/17 years ago with no representation after it. Even in Sonic BOOM! where her Advance 1&3 style would have made the most sense to return her actual platforming abilities include triple jumping and swinging on poles, two abilities that did not need her hammer at all regardless of the pole swinging using it in its animation. She was sold as acrobatic more so than anything but even that has not been capitalized on since. 

As for excuses for why it can't be done, there really isn't any since even fans have proven it can be done. What there is however is a little thing called demand. Mania was able to be successful due in part to the demand for what it delivered; a faithful reproduction of the Genesis/Mega Drive game formula. No matter how unique or special Amy's Advance 1&3 gameplay was, the demand for Amy from what I've seen does not necessarily include that gameplay. While I personally argue for at least keeping the rolling gameplay of a classic styled Sonic game, most cases of Amy demand does not include a description of how she should play in a Genesis/Mega Drive accurate game with those cases where her Advance 1&3 gameplay coming up is more that it would be accepted. The problem is that acceptance and demand are two very different things. It also does not address what the Mania team and Sonic Team/SEGA necessarily want/want to do with a classic representation of Amy

And just to play Devil's Advocate a little here involving excuses, what if the excuse in question is a matter of not wanting to use it. What if, perchance, part of the mentality of the Mania team is that if they were to add Amy they would want to leave their own unique stamp with her and could never achieve a satisfactory idea or agreement with Sonic Team/SEGA? Considering they did not re-implement Mighty's Wall Kick from Chaotix, instead opting for his new Hammer Drop ability, the possibility I bring up here is one that could very well explain why there is no playable Amy in Mania. Of course it is all just pure supposition and conjuncture, but imagine if you will that she was supposed to originally be included in a playable capacity and that those Amy bombs in MM really were meant to be a lighthearted joke hearkening back to her original interaction in Sonic CD. Just food for thought really...

*EDIT*

Adding on to address the confusion issue of her obscure nickname, you have to admit that more so than any other character if you were to show her Classic and Modern designs to someone who was ignorant of the series that they would not necessarily connect the two as being the same character in different art styles.

Given Sonic was granted his previous abilities as a secret, what makes you think Mighty WON’T have his wall jump in some capacity? Then again, the core cast is missing their 8-bit and Advance-onwards techniques, but they seem less important than Mighty’s wall jump (which had its animation already used by Sonic, though).  And Amy has it better than a lot of other characters who could potentially appear. Freedom Fighter, Honey,  & Chaotix “toys” coming out of the machine would have made it seem less like an isolated swat at her. 

[Sean]

I don't think there's any conspiracy surrounding Amy's absense in Mania

[Zanoss]

Honestly I would have prefer Honey rather than Ray, who is just a uninteresting copy of Tails xD

Mighty tho is legit, it's cool they add him

[Red Hot Jack]

If anything Mighty is a copy of Sonic, Ray looks more original than Mighty does.

[Zanoss]

1 hour ago, Jack the Maniac said:

If anything Mighty is a copy of Sonic, Ray looks more original than Mighty does.

Nope, it's Ray who is really uninspired xD

He is just Tails with one tail, he share the same dominant color, he look to have a personality close to him, he have such a boring design x_x

 

[Sonictrainer]

1 hour ago, Zanoss said:

Nope, it's Ray who is really uninspired xD

 he have such a boring design x_x

You sure? While his head shape and face remind me more of a monkey, his look is very distinct from other characters, especially depending on who draws him.

1 hour ago, Zanoss said:

He is just Tails with one tail

Do you know how many Sonic characters have just one tail, regardless if they're straight and thick, pointy, or big and bushy?

1 hour ago, Zanoss said:

he share the same dominant color

When did orange and yellow become the same color?

1 hour ago, Zanoss said:

he look to have a personality close to him

Contrast Tails and Ray to Knuckles and Mighty in this picture.

 

3 hours ago, Zanoss said:

Honestly I would have prefer Honey rather than Ray

If Honey does get introduced in a sequel, what would her moveset be?

[Sonic Fan J]

15 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Given Sonic was granted his previous abilities as a secret, what makes you think Mighty WON’T have his wall jump in some capacity? Then again, the core cast is missing their 8-bit and Advance-onwards techniques, but they seem less important than Mighty’s wall jump (which had its animation already used by Sonic, though).  And Amy has it better than a lot of other characters who could potentially appear. Freedom Fighter, Honey,  & Chaotix “toys” coming out of the machine would have made it seem less like an isolated swat at her. 

Admittedly Mighty's Wall Jump not being shown in action is why I never even considered it being a possible hidden extra like Sonic's abilities as I never even considered the secret menu and Sonic's extra abilities (I prefer the CD moveset but have never actually played Mania using it).

I also agree that Amy does have it a lot better than the other characters in the regard that she does have an existing moveset which could be drawn upon. My point was more to imply that they may not want to draw upon that moveset for any number of reasons. As @Skull Leader points out there really isn't any reason it can't be used. But can't and won't are to very different beasts.

And agreed again that more characters than just Amy in the gacha would have made it seem less like her fans were being necessarily attacked. But as I was trying to stay on the more positive side I things it is part of why I suggested that Amy was originally meant to be included in some greater capacity before that content was cut in which case those bombs would have been more of a cute nod to how she acted in Sonic CD, and not the blatant disrespect to Amy Fans it comes across as. Honestly, I really find it hard to believe that regardless of personal opinion that Sonic Team approved that content in the belief that it was openly an attack against Amy and her fans. It just seems like bad business sense (I know this is SEGA that we're talking about) and I'm willing to believe that hey just did not expect the negative reaction they got to what was supposed to be a cute reference.

8 hours ago, Sean said:

I don't think there's any conspiracy surrounding Amy's absense in Mania

Agreed. My hypothesis was more to give examples with a positive base that both considered possible positions that could be held in regards to demand, the artistic licence of the Mania Team, and the desires of the IP owner for why Amy would be excluded. My primary intention was more to demonstrate that beyond coding and gameplay excuses there is a plethora of additional reasons that could be considered for her exclusion. I probably could have explained that better though since I seemed to have caused some confusion.

[TheOcelot]

Mania Plus official trailer has been released in Japan today. It's exactly the same as the NA/Europe trailer:

 

[expansivelovestories]

I am trying to figure out if Mania Plus will actually be part of E3!   It feels like maybe SEGA's boothes or something don't open until tomorrow?

 

Edit: Thank you Sonictrainer!!  It is good to see that something is on the way and very soon! 

[Sonictrainer]

1 minute ago, expansivelovestories said:

I am trying to figure out if Mania Plus will actually be part of E3!  So far it feels like maybe SEGA's boothes or something don't open until tomorrow? 

There is some sort of Gaming Battle tomorrow...

[Gemster312]

That was literally... the opposite of a "Game Battle".

It was 30 minutes of talking about the Sonic Toaster and Shoes with a quick "reveal" of how the box art looks (which we've technically seen just not as a physical thing).

Game Battle = Toast 'n' Shoes.

 

At least it was better than Nintendo's Conference

[expansivelovestories]

Yes that was unexpectedly strange! 

it certainly explains why there was not much said ahead of time to watch and wait for this short presentation today! 

It seems like, beyond the trailer which becomes more amazing as time goes on, it was welcome to revisit it today: Sonic Mania Adventures is how they are choosing to promote Mania Plus before release, rather than with live gameplay.  Then afterwards they can do some live playthroughs on the official stream.

 

 

 

[Zanok the Hedgehog]

I'm very close to pre-ordering Sonic Mania Plus soon as I've been waiting for a physical edition of the game since the original was announced, though I got burned hard by Halo: The Master Chief Collection (which is the only game I've ever pre-ordered) so, even though I know the digital version works fine as I've played it a few times before, I'm still somewhat worried.

I really want to secure a copy in case it's only a limited release, so should I just go for it under the assumption that it'll work fine?

[Forte-Metallix]

We've got a new developer diary series!

"Ray is a bit more of a plucky, happy-go-lucky kind of chap, whereas Mighty's all about his strength and resolve."

It's amazing how much personality they've put into these two without any dialogue or voice acting whatsoever.

[Sonic Fan J]

Well executed pantomime is one of the things that I've always enjoyed about the classic games and seeing it return in Mania and Mania Adventures has been a treat.

[superman43]

If THAT thing was in Encore Mode... oh.

[TheOcelot]

12 hours ago, superman43 said:

If THAT thing was in Encore Mode... oh.

Mania Mode: Sonic Classic Heroes :V

[superman43]

41 minutes ago, TheOcelot said:

Mania Mode: Sonic Classic Heroes confirmed :V

More like co-op story + enhanced boss fights confirmed. I honestly wonder what would Eggman do to that fight with Phantom Ruby though.

[kergo]

It doesn't confirm anything, it's likely one of the pre-development mockups Stealth mentioned the gang did. You can notice Sonic has a darker palette. And it doesn't make sense that everyone is moving at high speed except Eggman.

[MainJP]

On 5/18/2018 at 6:11 AM, Sonictrainer said:

When did orange and yellow become the same color?

1

Lol, this.Tails is red-orange while Ray is golden yellow.

 

Also, Ray is not a copy of Tails, he was created before Tails and was a potential candidate for Sonic's sidekick.

EDIT: That's an old rumour; ignore me.

[Pengi]

17 hours ago, MainJP said:

Also, Ray is not a copy of Tails, he was created before Tails and was a potential candidate for Sonic's sidekick.

 

Can you elaborate on this?

[MainJP]

47 minutes ago, Pengi said:

Can you elaborate on this?

 

I should have sourced that, but the weird thing is I can't find an interview or anything for that. I remember hearing that Ray was designed by Yamaguchi for a contest held at STI but the idea was rejected and then he designed the Tanuki and later Tails, and then I reminded myself that he was designed by Kusunoki for the Arcades. I guess that part about Ray is just a rumour. 

[Your Vest Friend]

It's a rumour that Ohshima debunked regarding Ray*, I asked him myself. It could be that they were developed at pretty much the same time, like how Sonic 2 and Sonic CD pretty much were, but at that time the communication between "Sonic Team" in the US and "Sonic Team" in Japan would have been minimal. 

*A contest did exist, but the only candidate we know for sure that isn't Tails is a fellow that was named Boomer the Turtle. 

[Red Hot Jack]

So what is Zavok doing in that video? He is definitely not there in Mania Plus.

[Multikaris]

34 minutes ago, Drifting Jack said:

So what is Zavok doing in that video? He is definitely not there in Mania Plus.

More evidence that Forces gets something similar?