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Sonic Mania Plus: Official Reveal (Coming July 17th) - NO SPOILERS

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You also have to consider the fact that they are offering these characters as paid downloadable content, as well.

It'd be one thing if Mighty and Ray were already in the game as cameo appearances like the Hooligans were, or were secret unlockable characters already in the game. It's another entirely when the main draw of the whole DLC (for now) relies on these characters, and what they can bring to the table.

If they're virtually no different from the main cast in terms of abilities, and have no real personalities uniquely defining them... what are we given to work with? At what point should we jump on the "I want to buy that with money" train, aside from the basic factor of them being forgotten characters at one point?


I don't exactly see much room for growth, honestly, but they could end up selling us all on them pretty hard; who knows. Right now though, there isn't exactly much going for them imo, and I don't think anyone's exactly wrong for being hesitant about it all, either.

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And all of a sudden Sega's scheme comes full circle.

They knew full well that there would be adequate demand for a physical release of Mania, but by sitting on it and offering it down the line, they essentially just managed to sell a bunch of people the same game twice (or in some cases three or four). Despite being a discount title, when all is said and done I think a not so insignificant population of the install base will have spent full retail price on Sonic Mania.

 

Those Diabolical Bastards.

 

someone in marketing really pulled a fast one.

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18 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

And all of a sudden SegIa's scheme comes full circle.

They knew full well that there would be adequate demand for a physical release of Mania, but by sitting on it and offering it down the line, they essentially just managed to sell a bunch of people the same game twice (or in some cases three or four). Despite being a discount title, when all is said and done I think a not so insignificant population of the install base will have spent full retail price on Sonic Mania.

 

Those Diabolical Bastards.

 

someone in marketing really pulled a fast one.

 

I'm still hesitant on buying the game because of Denuvo and it seems like Plus won't be for the PC

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Just now, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

It. is. HARMLESS. If a harmless cameo like that bothers you so much, then I honestly don't know what to tell you...

You're literally complaining now.

Its what they didn't do that bothers me and there can be bad cameos not all of them are good.  

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1 hour ago, Soniman said:

A lot of scrapped characters have no personality yet a lot of folks popped off at a character like Bark  getting just a cameo in this game. How they're executed now matters to me more then how they were in some old obscure games. This same thing happened with the Chaotix in fact (non characters to actual characters).   I also don't buy the idea they're just reskins at all right now given the game's pedigree and team behind it. Not to mention I doubt they'd give this big of a show for just character  reskins ... 

I'm with you on this one, they haven't even had a chance. The Mania crew has proven they know what they are doing, they wouldn't just shove these two in without thought on how to differentiate them, give them unique move sets and expand on their almost blank slate characterization outside the comics.

It's people jumping the gun, as always seems to happen. People get upset that <insert character here> hasn't been used in a couple games, needs more development, could have so much more done with them quite often. Hell if we look to the Modern Universe, (or is it "Modern Dimension" now?) it was most people's argument for Silver, '06 didn't give him a chance to shine, bring him back in something decent, expand on his character. Where's Blaze, we need to know more about her, fix up the confusion. Shadow hasnt been playable in years (before Forces DLC) etc etc.

Yet the Classic Universe equivalent to that, Mighty and Ray, who haven't been playable in 20 years or so, who are ripe for character building, who could essentially be re-built like the Chaotix were for the Modern Universe, and given a chance to shine again, given unique abilities and personalities, to help fill this new "Classic Dimension", if they are going to continue working on content for it....are redundant and boring based on the two previous games they were in, where they played bit parts and haven't been expanded on since. This is their chance. It's happening regardless of if you personally like the decision or not, like Silver still being around or Shadow returning from the dead..so we might as well give the Mania crew the benefit of the doubt based on their good work so far, and see what they have to offer.

Plus considering the reply to the question about Mighty & Ray showing up in the Mania Adventures animation, we might get a nice look at their characterization and moves before the game releases. So let's just wait and see shall we.

 

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5 minutes ago, Tenko said:

Plus considering the reply to the question about Mighty & Ray showing up in the Mania Adventures animation, we might get a nice look at their characterization and moves before the game releases. So let's just wait and see shall we.

Considering the answer to the question, it appears that the potential Mighty and Ray animation doesn't exist yet.

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While I'd have preferred Amy too, its worth remembering how she was an utterly useless, annoying and poorly-dressed damsel in her one and only classic appearance. She had zero playability, let alone personality or pico hammer, prior to Sonic Adventure, and the Advance games are still modern era and designs even if the gameplay wasn't.  Mania treated her perfectly IMO if you only take her Sonic CD appearance into account.

Because Sega have decided that classic and modern sonic are practically separate continuities, its not as clear to me that they are willing to transition the elements that make her popular from the modern-verse. I'd say they should probably do it anyway in a full Mania 2 just because of the advance games and some gender rep, but I'm not convinced that they actually will.

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It's cool that they're willing to update the designs since Ray design took inspiration from the Archie attire to make his shoes stand out. But I wish that Mighty's shoes also looked different. They look way too similar to Sonic's. Tails is also rocking red/white shoe colors, but that works since it's handled in a unique 50/50 color balance without straps. I know this sounds nitpicky as hell, but it still irks me. Although I guess the white strips are slightly rounder on the sides than Sonic?

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I can't wait to see chibi Mighty and chibi Ray in Metallic Madness.

 

As for Encore Mode, the first thing that came to mind was Hard Mode missions in Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, and Shadow the Hedgehog. The general layouts of the stages are the same, but new obstacles (and the absence of some stage assets) are now implemented that you have to take time for negotiating around them.

 

Think how City Escape Hard Mode introduced rapid-fire shielded GUN sentry robots immediately, barricades, and removed some of the hovering platforms. And if you want a non-Hard Mode-esque application to this, City Escape Hard Mode placed in more, smaller ramps in the boarding section and midway that don't really impede your progress, but could mess up your flow if you weren't ready for them. Apply that to 2D environments, and there you go.

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I hope this plays in Egg Reverie when u go low in rings or when u need those last three hits and the boss speeds up and gets more difficult:

 

Also, I would love different bonus stages depending on your ring count. 25 rings, maybe 35 and 50 to get you into different bonuses. 

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I wonder if some of the unused content will be re-implemented. The coloured ink wells, printers and wipers in Press Garden. The Capsule type boss using the Alex Kidd mechanics. The big chain links missing from Heavy Riders area that connect Little Planet to Lava Reef etc. It will be interesting seeing what the extras and touch ups will be.

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I still haven't got round to playing Mania yet (been waiting for a price drop), but upon seeing this I'm jumping in on Day 1 of Plus.

Never did I think we'd see Mighty and Ray come back, hell I thought their cameo poster in Generations was more than could be expected of Sega's acknowledgement they existed. I'm stunned the guys have got the go-ahead to revive them. They're essentially a blank slate for new twists on gameplay, and I trust these guys to come up with something interesting.

Art book should be snazzy too.

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4 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

I'm still hesitant on buying the game because of Denuvo and it seems like Plus won't be for the PC

I don´t think there would be physical release for PC unless there is huge demand from fans.

 

By the way, I find only three "logical" prices for the SM Plus when you already have Sonic Mania. $1.99, $2.99 and at worst $4.99. I bet my money on $2.99.

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7 hours ago, SpongicX said:

Sorry, I was going through a real hard time, and have overreacted in the past. It was wrong of me to assume they hated Amy. I just wish the game gave her better recognition, instead of treating her like a monster that needed to die. For a game that was supposed to be celebrating the classics, it felt like they were saying Amy wasn’t important enough.

When you think about it, Mania is all about taking memorable stuff from the classics and remixing them or making jokes out of them.  The most notable thing Amy did in gameplay was bother Sonic by hugging him, so Mania's joke about that fits perfectly.  It also comes off as extra funny considering this is an Eggman creation, he actually had the sense of humour and thought to weaponise the concept of how "that one fangirl kept annoying Sonic that one time".

5 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

I'm still hesitant on buying the game because of Denuvo and it seems like Plus won't be for the PC

Plus will be available for PC as a DLC update.  You know pretty much all modern PC games are just empty discs that launch a Steam download anyway right?  Sometimes they'll include game data to save you having to wait for a full download but that's about it. Denuvo was made to sound more dramatic than it was, but it does have real drawbacks regardless, so that one comes down to personal tolerance.  I do appreciate if you want the physical extras but can only play the game on PC though, that is frustrating.

1 hour ago, Dangerous ball tower engin said:

Maybe encore mode would be like the "D.A. garden" edition of mania. 

Mania already had a D.A. Garden unlockable (though it was much more of a straight-up sound test than Sonic CD's which let you mess around with the background a bunch).

They've confirmed that Encore Mode will SOMEHOW change up how the game plays so I don't think it's gonna be anything that is it's own seperate "thing" like D.A. Garden mode is.

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Reflecting on this since last night, I too was a bit disappointed by the lack of Amy - but I do think there's an argument that Mighty and Ray, quite apart from having an earlier playable pedigree, represent more of a blank slate.  Amy has had numerous playable appearances since the classic era and that creates a lot of expectations around which to navigate, but with Mighty and Ray the Mania team can more or less do whatever they want; I think they're just easier to work with, essentially.  I'll be rooting for Amy to appear in a Mania sequel, though.

As for Mighty and Ray, it's interesting to think about what their movesets might be like.  I'd say it's almost certain that Mighty will have the Chaotix wall jump, but something in me also wants him to have a permanent bounce ability, like the Aqua Shield?  Guy just looks really bouncy to me, like a rubber ball.  (While looking for video of the Chaotix wall jump, I actually found a recording of a hack in which he also has such a bounce-like move, so apparently it's not just me.)  For Ray... faster glide with quicker turning, maybe the ability to dive and soar for height manipulation, like the Super Mario World cape power-up?  Wall cling without wall climb?

3 hours ago, Count Mario said:

It's cool that they're willing to update the designs since Ray design took inspiration from the Archie attire to make his shoes stand out. But I wish that Mighty's shoes also looked different. They look way too similar to Sonic's. Tails is also rocking red/white shoe colors, but that works since it's handled in a unique 50/50 color balance without straps. I know this sounds nitpicky as hell, but it still irks me. Although I guess the white strips are slightly rounder on the sides than Sonic?

Considering that Mighty started life as a Sonic prototype, I felt that they kept his Sonic shoes as a nod to that point of origin; with Ray, on the other hand, my guess is they didn't want him to have the same shoes as Mighty, so they took the opportunity to make a nod to the comics with the change.

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Just wanted to confirm the DLC won't be free. It seems I missed the moment when they said "we'll talk about pricing later". Here, around 3:20: 

 

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56 minutes ago, JezMM said:

They've confirmed that Encore Mode will SOMEHOW change up how the game plays...

Considering the name of the mode (which may mean something or nothing) I’ve been thinking of the possibilities since last night and I’ve come down to this:

- It’s a Boss Rush 

- It’s an additional scene/boss fight/zone after the main game ala: Doomsday (yes, I know Egg Revierie exists).

- It takes place after Sonic Forces and Sonic runs through some of the games levels again (less likely considering Sonic Mania Adventures will fill this gap)

- An amended version of the main game including the missing zone transitions or/and a swap around of zone order.

- Ruby transitions at the end of each act/zone will throw you to any zone at random order bar Titanic Monarch.

- Play / Swap out between the 5 characters at any time during the game.

 

...more than likely though, is that it’s just hard mode. XD

 

EDIT: Just watched the video with explanation, they mention new visual touches and new ways to play already beaten acts - to me this suggests it could essentially be “hard mode” which incorporates altered level layouts for traversing (or hey, maybe even an Act 3 - although unlikely), And I wonder if the visual tweaks will be something like new weather effects and time of day changes - e.g. playing Green Hill at night time or in the rain/snow (or both!) would be pretty wicked.

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24 minutes ago, Son-icka said:

 

EDIT: Just watched the video with explanation, they mention new visual touches and new ways to play already beaten acts - to me this suggests it could essentially be “hard mode” which incorporates altered level layouts for traversing (or hey, maybe even an Act 3 - although unlikely), And I wonder if the visual tweaks will be something like new weather effects and time of day changes - e.g. playing Green Hill at night time or in the rain/snow (or both!) would be pretty wicked.

Sand Hill Zone confirmed!

Seriously though, going to love seeing new spins on new spins of old classics, this team can pull it off.

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This does sort of confirm that Mania's a ground (for lack of a better term) for the concepts that Sonic Team themselves aren't particularly interested in using. Don't think they'd allow so much Archie influence if so (then again they didn't allow the characters period into the modern games, so that's more a cherry on top than a linchpin). 

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