Sonic Mania Adventures

[Wraith]

4 minutes ago, JosepHenry said:

Like... Would many people be against a christmas special with Shadow and Cream as they deliver presents to people while Shadow learns about Christmas spirit and not be so grumpy? I would love that! And I'm sure other people would too.

People would find a way to say that it's out of character for Shadow. You seen the comic thread lately? It's a debate every time he does anything besides scowl and dominate the situation on his own.

Or hell, look at the debates about Tails. The writers depicted him as having a moment of cowardice and it was considered ridiculous based on a character beat that happened for him 20 years ago under a completely different set of writers. 

When you wipe away the text of most of the modern games there's just a lot less for people to get hung up on, and I mean INSIDE the fanbase when I say this. Ironically I don't think a lot of casual or non-fans would be bothered by the scenario presented. They'd probably even find it endearing.

 

[Lord-Dreamerz]

Would kill for a Sonic Mania movie... Or even a modern Sonic cartoon movie made by the Mania team... Put whichever in theaters and then me and most people I know would happily pay to go watch it. This stuff is to GOOD!

[JosepHenry]

6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Yea, but what would lead to a situation like this? Shadow isn't the type of character you can just drop into any situation and make it work because he's way too intricate of a character to work that way.

Cream begs for him to help her with that. Shadow is not a monster and helps her with it, but is not too happy with that. Simple. Basic as possible. 

 

But as Wraith just said people would complain like always, but you know what? Just... Do it. It wouldn't be massively disliked. It would be cute.

[G-Force]

1 hour ago, Rowl said:

I don't think that it will be that easy. A lot of the characters in the modern era seemed to change every single time. Amy for example can be in the modern era a many things like a psychotic stalker, a ice girl, a hot headed tsundere, a damsel in distress or a feminist who fights for the rights of women. She is not really that well established as a character.

Same also with Knuckles. Can we make jokes with him and the Master Emerald in the modern era? Is the Master emerald and Angel Island still a thing in the modern era. Is Knuckles an idiot or a good leader? 

I think shorts with the modern era or any other era after the Classic era can only work if the universe and characters as as consistent as the classic one.

The only reason the modern characters are inconsistent is because Sonic Team has screwed.  Up.  The problem with saying "oh, Amy's been too many different things," is that, honestly?  She probably shouldn't have been all of those things.  You can't look at a history of mistakes and treat everything like it's worth serious consideration.

The Modern, Adventure, and Classic characters are all THE SAME CHARACTERS, so any characterization you would give one version should just as easily apply to any other version.  The only actual, practical difference would be voice acting, and there's no good reason for anyone to believe that can't be done well.  The idea that these variations of the characters are separate, or somehow should be separate is stupid.  Even if Sonic Team themselves are among the ones saying it.

If we're all looking at this interpretation of Amy and saying "this is the ideal," then this is the way any version of Amy should be.

[JosepHenry]

I should complain about Metal Sonic not trying to kill Amy though, cuz he just stands there is not like his character.

[G-Force]

1 minute ago, JosepHenry said:

I should complain about Metal Sonic not trying to kill Amy though, cuz he just stands there is not like his character.

He's broken.  It seems he can't move anything but his head.

[Waveshocker Sigma]

5 minutes ago, G-Force said:

The Modern, Adventure, and Classic characters are all THE SAME CHARACTERS, so any characterization you would give one version should just as easily apply to any other version.  The only actual, practical difference would be voice acting, and there's no good reason for anyone to believe that can't be done well.  The idea that these variations of the characters are separate, or somehow should be separate is stupid.  Even if Sonic Team themselves are among the ones saying it.

^This right here is why I have said, and will continue to say and think, that Sonic Generations was a mistake.

[JosepHenry]

3 minutes ago, G-Force said:

He's broken.  It seems he can't move anything but his head.

My point is, these kind of thing is not really important, like what is Shadow? Serious, moody, with god powers but has a good heart inside. Could work in a Christmas special.

This should not be so complicated. At. All.

[Kuzu]

The modern cast 

11 minutes ago, JosepHenry said:

Cream begs for him to help her with that. Shadow is not a monster and helps her with it, but is not too happy with that. Simple. Basic as possible. 

 

But as Wraith just said people would complain like always, but you know what? Just... Do it. It wouldn't be massively disliked. It would be cute.

I mean, I wouldn't mind if it was cute. But as wraith said, people would just complain cuz it betrays the head canon portrayals people have forced on them for years 

[JosepHenry]

Just now, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The modern cast 

I mean, I wouldn't mind if it was cute. But as wraith said, people would just complain cuz it betrays the head canon portrayals people have forced on them for years 

Trust me, it would be the minority.

[DabigRG]

16 minutes ago, Wraith said:

People would find a way to say that it's out of character for Shadow. You seen the comic thread lately? It's a debate every time he does anything besides scowl and dominate the situation on his own.

Or hell, look at the debates about Tails. The writers depicted him as having a moment of cowardice and it was considered ridiculous based on a character beat that happened for him 20 years ago under a completely different set of writers. 


 

To be fair in those instances, I think it's more important to note that those were also instances where the execution was questionable.

16 minutes ago, JosepHenry said:

Cream begs for him to help her with that. Shadow is not a monster and helps her with it, but is not too happy with that. 

Alright, Johnny.

[JosepHenry]

3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

 

Alright, Johnny.

As he said, you are a fucking monster if you are not friends with Cream the Rabbit.

[Kuzu]

5 minutes ago, JosepHenry said:

Trust me, it would be the minority.

Well that minority makes up most of the people on this site and beyond soooo....

 

I personally stopped caring so much because it's more effort than it's worth scrutinizing everything about this series. So as long as it's not blatantly OOC, I'm fine with whatever.

[G-Force]

8 minutes ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

^This right here is why I have said, and will continue to say and think, that Sonic Generations was a mistake.

Generations by itself is fine, because that game was just using Sonic's old design as a "past" Sonic, which is actually kinda cheeky and clever. 

Forces is the game that established the "Classic-is-an-alternate-dimension" garbage.

[JosepHenry]

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

So as long as it's not blatantly OOC, I'm fine with whatever.

And there you go. That's all is needed.

Also most of the people or a very, very vocal minority? Possibly two people? Cuz I'm a Shadow fan and I would love Shadow in a cute situation like that.

[Jango]

36 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The modern cast 

I mean, I wouldn't mind if it was cute. But as wraith said, people would just complain cuz it betrays the head canon portrayals people have forced on them for years 

Which isn't consistent either TBH. I mean, in one game we see Eggman holding a gun against Amy's head and saying he'll make mincemeat of Tails... While other game we see him getting mocked by his own stupid robots... And in another one we have him saying stuff like "as long as I can still strangle a Zeti, my hands are fine".

Modern Sonic cast is whatever the writers wants them to be at the moment to move the plot forward (or to spit an one liner, because ha-ha, "true dat", that's so Tails).

Classic Sonic didn't had enough games to "establish a personality", but Modern Sonic had a hundred games and we still don't know what they are. At least Classic Sonic have always been portrayed as a cool dude with attitude in most places. Except when Sonic Team themselves wrote him as cute and passive in Generations. lol Come to think of it now, that's just embarassing.

Anyways... Nice to see something I said sparkled this discussion. It only shows that most of you here understand that the current Sonic Team can't write well anything they touch, while the Mania Team did half a dozen shorts with more character and charm than them in ages. You guys have good taste. You guys are awesome. 

[Kuzu]

4 minutes ago, JosepHenry said:

And there you go. That's all is needed.

Also most of the people or a very, very vocal minority? Possibly two people? Cuz I'm a Shadow fan and I would love Shadow in a cute situation like that.

Bruh, there are a LOT of people like that. Trust me when I tell you. I know, because I used to be one of them lol.

[Diogenes]

10 minutes ago, G-Force said:

The Modern, Adventure, and Classic characters are all THE SAME CHARACTERS, so any characterization you would give one version should just as easily apply to any other version. 

I feel like all the arguing over the different versions of the characters pretty clearly proves this wrong.

[JosepHenry]

2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Bruh, there are a LOT of people like that. Trust me when I tell you. I know, because I used to be one of them lol.

They are still the minority, like, if the offical Sonic youtube released this supposed christmas special with Shadow, I'm pretty sure the dislikes would be not as much as likes. And it would recieve a lot of praise cuz it nakes those "hated" characters likable.

[Scape]

Funny how a 3 minute Mania short did more for Amy than Sonic Team has done in 17 years. Now people are saying "all the insano stalker stuff should be relegated to Modern Amy."  How about Sonic Team finally learns how to write whatever version of the character they use and all the insano stalker stuff gets thrown off a cliff?

[Whatever the WhoCares]

I had to drop in to remark that this episode is another example of Sonic being treated better in the West. It’s so refreshing to see a plot where the writers ask, “What would these characters do?” Instead of “Someone needs to do or say X and Y to move the plot forward, let’s pick a random character.” 

I was a hell of a lot more invested in this low-stakes gag cartoon than I was with the apocalyptic struggle in Sonic Forces. 

[DabigRG]

5 minutes ago, Scape said:

Funny how a 3 minute Mania short did more for Amy than Sonic Team has done in 17 years. 

Fourteen--even if the execution was a little dodgy, Heroes and Battle did things to potentially move her character forward.

[Wraith]

44 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The modern cast 

I mean, I wouldn't mind if it was cute. But as wraith said, people would just complain cuz it betrays the head canon portrayals people have forced on them for years 

Worth clarifying that I'm still up for the scenario Joseph presented and don't actually see a good reason why they couldn't do it. Even the few naysayers would probably have a hard time denying such a thing if it was executed well. I was just explaining where the idea that the modern characters have a lot of baggage comes from, but it's mostly clutter fans create for themselves by clinging onto canon and writing that the teams that work on these games don't actually pay all that much attention to following for one reason or another. 

All the callbacks and long running characters might make you think otherwise, but they just play it fast and loose with this whole thing. The focus is usually overwhelmingly on the individual scenario for each game and what would be appropriate for that. You're free to take issue with this since the series has a lot of callbacks and thus  invites fans to bring a lot of attention to the previous games with it, but I've found it hard to really care and always will.

This is even true going as far back as the classic games, but since there's literally less games with less lore and characterization within them and thus less text to worry about there's less to get caught on and less contention to be had. Emphasis on "less". There is literally less text to worry about. The characters are less complex and have less beats and layers. Less things about the world have been established. It's a blank slate. There's an honest chance to "right the ship" here but only because they started from point zero. A lot of the fundamental issues that created Modern Sonic's clusterfuck of a timeline haven't gone anywhere either: a lot of the products are still made under terrible working conditions and creators leave the franchise all the time, for instance. It's hard to be consistent about anything when parts keep changing under the hood at random. I wouldn't be surprised if shit got weird on this end of the woods too as more and more stuff comes out by different teams. Hell, there's already a debate about Mania Adventures being canon over Encore Mode in the first place, isn't there?

The truth is that the people who care about these things are in a minority. Sonic games are designed to be individual and episode so you can jump in anywhere and jump out when you feel like it. The canon and the characterization being messy has never been a huge inhibitor to it's success and probably never will be.

[StaticMania]

24 minutes ago, Scape said:

How about Sonic Team finally learns how to write whatever version of the character they use and all the insano stalker stuff gets thrown off a cliff?

Why though? There's nothing wrong with this...it's simple exaggeration.

[Kuzu]

16 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Worth clarifying that I'm still up for the scenario Joseph presented and don't actually see a good reason why they couldn't do it. Even the few naysayers would probably have a hard time denying such a thing if it was executed well. I was just explaining where the idea that the modern characters have a lot of baggage comes from, but it's mostly clutter fans create for themselves by clinging onto canon and writing that the teams that work on these games don't actually pay all that much attention to following for one reason or another. 

All the callbacks and long running characters might make you think otherwise, but they just play it fast and loose with this whole thing. The focus is usually overwhelmingly on the individual scenario for each game and what would be appropriate for that. You're free to take issue with this since the series has a lot of callbacks and thus  invites fans to bring a lot of attention to the previous games with it, but I've found it hard to really care and always will.

This is even true going as far back as the classic games, but since there's literally less games with less lore and characterization within them and thus less text to worry about there's less to get caught on and less contention to be had. Emphasis on "less". There is literally less text to worry about. The characters are less complex and have less beats and layers. Less things about the world have been established. It's a blank slate. There's an honest chance to "right the ship" here but only because they started from point zero. A lot of the fundamental issues that created Modern Sonic's clusterfuck of a timeline haven't gone anywhere either: a lot of the products are still made under terrible working conditions and creators leave the franchise all the time, for instance. It's hard to be consistent about anything when parts keep changing under the hood at random. I wouldn't be surprised if shit got weird on this end of the woods too as more and more stuff comes out by different teams. Hell, there's already a debate about Mania Adventures being canon over Encore Mode in the first place, isn't there?

The truth is that the people who care about these things are in a minority. Sonic games are designed to be individual and episode so you can jump in anywhere and jump out when you feel like it. The canon and the characterization being messy has never been a huge inhibitor to it's success and probably never will be.

I can understand tho how a fan of the Adventure era would take issue with things like how Tails is nowadays, since they make a big deal how he becomes independent but then he clings to Sonic even more nowadays.

But the fact of the matter is, the people who wrote those games are long gone and clearly had far bigger ambitions than the current crew, but expectations were bigger back then since Sonic was way more relevant in 1999 and 2001 than he is in 2018. And no way the current people are gonna abide by writing from almost two decades ago.

Sonic is basically DC/Marvel. It changes to whatever the current era is. Except it's only the diehard fans who care about details nobody else will ever know about. Nobody who grew up on games like Unleashed are gonna care about what the classics did.