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Team Sonic Racing - Upcoming Sonic Racing Game

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I know people are really upset with the Chao racer, but that's actually one of the racers I think is more interesting. Cream with Chao sitting next to her (or at least Cheese) probably would have been a better idea with the current roster, but it's still original and not what we were expecting. I think Chao's a great choice, it's just the tiny character roster messing everything up. It's weaker than Mario Kart 8's was, for example.

Team Vector probably wouldn't even exist if the roster was bigger. I'm kind of mixed on that team. On one hand, I don't really care for the Chaotix, and would have found their team pretty boring with the limited roster. Then again, it's pretty fucking stupid not to have Team Chaotix in a three man team racing game, especially since they are the most team focused characters in the franchise. They are consistently together.

Again, the tiny roster is the problem. They couldn't just do all the teams as Sonic Heroes because it would be dull and predictable with so few teams. We could have had some really obscure and great choices: Tikal, Chaos and Chao would have been a great team for example. Metal Sonic, Tails Doll and Metal Knuckles would have been a good choice. The whole appeal of spinoff games is tapping into the nooks and crannies of the franchise, which this game isn't really doing. 

I mean there's really no excuse for such a minuscule roster when the Team Ultimates are utterly boring and non-personalised outside the theme music.

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3 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

SEGA/Sonic Team/Historical Evidence does.

Who they allow to be playable has seen some shifts over the years, admittedly. Cream used to be a lot more prominent back in the day and Vector was no where near used as much as he is today. However, they've got a very expected pattern that they seem to adhere to as far as who to expect as far as playable characters. 

There are five Olympic Games and they stopped adding playable characters to the roster past the second one. When it comes to spin-offs, Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Eggman, Metal Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Blaze, and Vector are the 10 that you can always expect nowadays. I've reached a point to where I always expect them by default. Sometimes, once-in-a-blue-moon flukes will happen like Knuckles not being playable in SEGA Superstars Tennis or Blaze not being in Forces. It's not a 100% full proof system but it's usually how things go.

Unless it's a mobile game, they hardly go beyond the call of duty as far as characters are concerned. The furthest I've seen them go was in the Rio Olympics, where they did a thing where in one specific event you could play as one character you couldn't normally play as... but that was it. They weren't allowed to be fully unlockable across all events which is honestly more frustrating. I'd honestly rather they not have been playable at all in that case but I didn't even buy the game so whatever. 

Cameos in those games were fairly reliable for the most part. Espio and Charmy were at least refs. Cream got to announce stuff with Omochao. Jet, Omega, Rouge, and Eggman Nega were at least boss characters. Those games aren't really the norm for Sonic spin-offs though. This is honestly the first spin-off in a long, long time that's had itself both 100% Sonic centered and fully focused on something that would rely on a neat cast of characters to beef up its roster.

However, despite that, they couldn't even get in the full teams. They put in Big (because memes) and Omochao (because Chao Gardens were a thing people liked according to our business charts) and that's it. I guess Omega was a neat surprise though. I would not have called that. I suppose there's only so much you can split apart the teams to squeeze in all the popular characters though. At least two of them would have to remain the way they were. 

 

The M&S Olympic Games also had Mii Costumes in there, which actually treated Sonic better (with characters like Marine and Tikal in there while we didn’t even get a Pauline or K. Rool costume on the other side), so there’s a pinch more hope. SUMO’s last game had a ton of characters as collectible medals, too.

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1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

The M&S Olympic Games also had Mii Costumes in there, which actually treated Sonic better (with characters like Marine and Tikal in there while we didn’t even get a Pauline or K. Rool costume on the other side), so there’s a pinch more hope. 

The Mario side had just as many costumes. The Sonic side wasn't being treated better because whichever character didn't make it. Not that it matters. 

The focus of those games was to decorate themselves in as much fan-service from both Sonic and Mario. It's something they seemingly do a bit better at when they have another series or two to live up to. Or when they're making a mobile game. 

There are other things to consider, like when those games were made, who was in-charge of them, what stuff was just carried over from a time when they cared a bit more, what selective things they've decided to acknowledge that day, and other things.

On the whole though, expecting too much from them isn't in the cards at all nowadays. They usually strike well within the ballpark of expectation when you don't expect much. That isn't ideal but it leaves you open to being surprised should they do something that actually going beyond what's expected. 

 

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The reason why we didn't got Pauline and K. Rool as costumes is because those two characters kinda disappeared back than for a while. Nintendo only now starts using those two in a proper way.  

Back to TSR: I think one reason a delay is better for the game is because Sega can than actually start to promote this game better. Think about it. If this game will come out in December 2018, than we know next to nothing about it. We only know 14 of the 15 characters, I think only 4 of the 21 race tracks, some music pieces and a bit information about the story mode. But that's about it.

Sega did a much better job in promoting the other two games before it. We know next to nothing about TSR.

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1 hour ago, Rowl said:

The reason why we didn't got Pauline and K. Rool because those two characters kinda disappeared back than for a while. Nintendo only now start using those two in a proper way.  

Back to TSR: I think one reason we a delay is better for the game is because Sega can actually start to promote this game better. Think about it. If this game will come out in December 2018, than we know next to nothing about this game. We only have 14 of 15 characters, I think 4 of 21 different race tracks, some music pieces and a bit informations about the story mode. But that's about it.

Sega did a much better job in promoting the other two games. We know next to nothing about TSR.

I didn't even think they did a good job promoting Forces. The bulk of what they did came so close to it's release. It was weird.

However, it was far better than this. I really don't feel it should be normal for months to go by and be presented with almost nothing.

Then again, this ensemble game doesn't look like it's going to have much to it so they likely have very little to show. Like with Forces.

And they truly did do a much better job promoting the first two All-Stars games. 

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This game really is just a cheep filler until the next big game comes out. You know... the worst part for me is....

if this game will fail, which is very likely to happen, than Sega will no longer produce any of the All-Star games anymore. They always do that to a series , when it fails. Think about it.

- Sonic Rush Adventure failed and they ended the Rush series

- Sonic 06 failed and they stopped with the Adventure series

- Lost World failed and they (kinda) stopped with the Colors series

- Black Knight failed and they stopped with the Storybook series.

- Riders failed and they stopped producing other Rider games.

- And Chronicles failed so hard that they didn't even bother with a sequel.

It was always like that. And I do not want this series to die. Those are such good party games that can even rival the once from Nintendo in terms of quality. Do we really have to sacrifice everything that made the All-Stars series so charming just for another mediocre Sonic game? Sega, why do you always do that? Why do you always destroy the legacy of your games! It is always the same with you and I'm sick of it! 

The All-Stars series was the perfect answer to Mario Party games. But No! Can't have it for some reason.

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11 hours ago, Rowl said:

Sonic Rush Adventure failed and they ended the Rush series

Technically the Rush formula continued until Generations. I mean if we count from heroes to 06 all Adventure games, then both Colors DS and Generations 3DS are kind of Rush games.

But by name sake alone sure it ended, but I wouldn't say it failed. 

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11 hours ago, Rowl said:

- Sonic Rush Adventure failed and they ended the Rush series

 

How would you define fail anyway? When you look back at the time that was a very well received game with good review scores and I cant imagine it lagged in sales. At that point in time there were people that looked at Dimps developed sonic games the way some people today look at Whitehead. 

Where is the fail here? 

 

Also like rh above me said, colors ds is a rush game in a different packaging. 

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1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

How would you define fail anyway? When you look back at the time that was a very well received game with good review scores and I cant imagine it lagged in sales. At that point in time there were people that looked at Dimps developed sonic games the way some people today look at Whitehead. 

Where is the fail here?

Word on the street is that Sonic Rush Adventure did, in fact, crash in sales, especially in Japan.  It's always difficult to get the exact numbers on these things, though Sonic Retro's sales data for Rush and Rush Adventure respectively suggest waning enthusiasm; if you're willing to roll the dice on VGChartz (Rush, Rush Adventure), the result is similar.

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14 hours ago, Rowl said:

This game really is just a cheep filler until the next big game comes out. You know... the worst part for me is....

if this game will fail, which is very likely to happen, than Sega will no longer produce any of the All-Star games anymore. They always do that to a series , when it fails. Think about it.

- Sonic Rush Adventure failed and they ended the Rush series

- Sonic 06 failed and they stopped with the Adventure series

- Lost World failed and they (kinda) stopped with the Colors series

- Black Knight failed and they stopped with the Storybook series.

- Riders failed and they stopped producing other Rider games.

- And Chronicles failed so hard that they didn't even bother with a sequel.

It was always like that. And I do not want this series to die. Those are such good party games that can even rival the once from Nintendo in terms of quality. Do we really have to sacrifice everything that made the All-Stars series so charming just for another mediocre Sonic game? Sega, why do you always do that? Why do you always destroy the legacy of your games! It is always the same with you and I'm sick of it! 

The All-Stars series was the perfect answer to Mario Party games. But No! Can't have it for some reason.

I think it's actually tragic in this instance, as aside from the Rush series, the other series were awful (Adventure was fun when it came out but has aged).  All Stars was great, it'd be sad to see that go.

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33 minutes ago, FFWF said:

Word on the street is that Sonic Rush Adventure did, in fact, crash in sales, especially in Japan.  It's always difficult to get the exact numbers on these things, though Sonic Retro's sales data for Rush and Rush Adventure respectively suggest waning enthusiasm; if you're willing to roll the dice on VGChartz (Rush, Rush Adventure), the result is similar.

Those retro numbers are horrifically skewed. The healthy sales figures for the original rush are pulled from 2006 and 2007 earning reports when it would have had more than a year on store shelves and the lower rush adventure numbers were from at q3 2007 report when. It would have barley been available for a month. I am hesitant to extrapalaye much due to the disparity of sample size 

 

Low sales in Japan are nothing new, as most Sonic games tend to fall off the grid over there. Especilly back then. If that was the tipping point, the original rush would have never got a sequal because 95 percent of it's sales share also came from outside Japan.

 

Finally if you want to bite the bullet and look at the vgcharts numbers, rush adventure still comfortably sailed north of a million units. Combine that with the fact that it and it's predecessor were the best reviewed new Sonic games of that era a d I don't see how it can be classified as a fail.

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I look forward to Team Sonic Racing.  I guess it'll be a decent game, albeit lacklustre and lacking in content. It certainly lacks the spark from SASRT, and the circuits revealed up to the moment don't seem nearly as fun as the ones in Transformed; While I'm fine with Ice Mountain and Market Street, Wisp Circuit on the other hand could have some hazards or obstacles that make it a bit more challenging to get through. It's a literally empty track whose only noteworthy gimmick is the grass at the beginning of the stage which slows you down unless you are playing as a technique-type character.

Visuals are nice, but nothing outstanding. The roster is my main concern as I believe that they could have used more than 15 characters, knowing how large the Sonic cast is, and I don't really understand why they couldn't keep Team Rose as it was in Sonic Heroes like they did with Team Sonic and Dark, or why did they exclude the Chaotix (minus Vector) when they specially would fit the most in a game whose main mechanic is teamwork. As I see it, It would have made more sense to leave Team Rose and the Chaotix as they were in Heroes, then leave the remaining slots for Team Eggman and add 3 extra slots for Blaze, Silver, and the Chao, for a total of 18 characters. I'm glad that we get to play as someone else other than the main trio regardless.

The team mechanic is quite interesting and somewhat complex. I like the idea, but I don't think it's enough to replace the Transforming mechanic from SASRT. I also appreciate that the teams (story mode aside) aren't predetermined and can be chosen freely.

Overall, I'm optimistic that this will be a solid kart racer, although still not on par with SASRT and the ASR series in general.

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On 10/13/2018 at 10:59 PM, Fire-N-Space said:

I keep seeing some people say that Team Sonic Racing needs a delay so it won't be rushed out but what makes it look like its rushed? I think their waiting for its comic to come out before they start showing off story stuff. 

People keep mixing up the term "Smaller scale production" and "rushed" interchangeably because it's the Sonic series.  

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The game looks quite unpolished in various areas. The graphics aren't impressing me, the team ultimates look awful (even the particle effects look dodgy) and the framerate is apparently poor. 

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8 hours ago, kalion said:

People keep mixing up the term "Smaller scale production" and "rushed" interchangeably because it's the Sonic series.  

I think you're half-right - I don't think I'd call this "rushed," but I don't think the problem here is that it's a "smaller scale production" - ASRT and Mania were both that and were also not as dire as TSR looks. In fact they were actually good. Like, real good.

So instead of "rushed" I'd probably use:

  • naff
  • poor
  • unpolished
  • crap
  • going a bit Pete Tong
  • mediocre 

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11 hours ago, kalion said:

People keep mixing up the term "Smaller scale production" and "rushed" interchangeably because it's the Sonic series.  

Not quite a small scale production either. When you think of small scale production, you think of the indie games and most games in the Sonic series aren't even in that scale with Mania being the closest in terms of modern day gaming development. Most Sonic and Sega games in general are more mid-scale with Yazuka being their highest in terms of production and even that cuts corners sometimes, Sega is even considered one of the 5 large Japanese gaming companies out there. I'll argue that something like Puyo Puyo is considered to be a small scale production in terms of Sega, quick and cheap to make but is considered decent to good quality. Sure the new Sumo team working on this game are newer and smaller but Sumo in general aren't a small team, around 500 employees overall. Forza Horizon 4 by comparison because it is UK made racing game had less employees working on the game (around 200) and that is considered a 1st party AAA game.

Rushed isn't just the Sonic series philosophy but also the ways of Sega. Quite a lot of Sega's games made in the past 30 years or so are rushed including many of their classics. Chances are name a Sega game and yep, that was rushed through development. You can make a good game if it is rushed in development providing that the team knows what it is doing and know what to cut out and not to focus as much or if the core game is still good. Problem is that Sega has done both, some of their best games are rushed and some of their worst games are rushed.

This game however is opposite to rushed but rather development problems, an inexperienced development team that some were used to mobile game design, delays, a gaming mechanic that is hard to explain to its target audience and could have done with a tutorial (that it might get in the final version!). Probably at the moment the game is considered unpolished, rough around the edges and mediocre compared to what came before. Had it come out on its original planned release date (November 2018), it would have been a disaster that Sega doesn't want to repeat again and already had two big ones with the Sonic series both from the Japanese side (06) and the US side (Sonic Boom), it doesn't want an European one either. Maybe one of these days, we might get to find out the full story of what went wrong with this game or why it took 2 years and still needs work on the game.

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Until I see my car get push through walls, have a logo force in to my face consistently, bad recorded voice lines, or poorly balance transforming mechanics Team Sonic Racing is looking to be a much better game than Transformed.

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6 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Until I see my car get push though walls, have a logo force in to my face consistently, bad recorded voice lines, or poorly balance transforming mechanics Team Sonic Racing is looking to be a much better game than Transformed.

Wait, what?

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On 10/14/2018 at 4:09 AM, Rowl said:

This game really is just a cheep filler until the next big game comes out. You know... the worst part for me is....

if this game will fail, which is very likely to happen, than Sega will no longer produce any of the All-Star games anymore. They always do that to a series , when it fails. Think about it.

- Sonic Rush Adventure failed and they ended the Rush series

- Sonic 06 failed and they stopped with the Adventure series

- Lost World failed and they (kinda) stopped with the Colors series

- Black Knight failed and they stopped with the Storybook series.

- Riders failed and they stopped producing other Rider games.

- And Chronicles failed so hard that they didn't even bother with a sequel.

It was always like that. And I do not want this series to die. Those are such good party games that can even rival the once from Nintendo in terms of quality. Do we really have to sacrifice everything that made the All-Stars series so charming just for another mediocre Sonic game? Sega, why do you always do that? Why do you always destroy the legacy of your games! It is always the same with you and I'm sick of it! 

The All-Stars series was the perfect answer to Mario Party games. But No! Can't have it for some reason.

Just to point some things out:

- i wouldn't say that Sonic Rush Adventure failed, not at least according to VGChartz. This game was also praised by reviewers and fans alike as one of the best Sonic games around at the time.

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/7499/sonic-rush-adventure/

- Sonic '06 was commercially successful according to Sega's financial reports from 2007. The game's sales performance was described as "solid" and "strong" and reached the Platinum Hits on the Xbox. I believe that the extremely negative reception it received from basically everyone is what forced them to change the direction of the series.

https://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/ir/library/pdf/settlement/2007/e_200703_3q_pre.pdf

https://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/ir/library/pdf/settlement/2007/e_200703_4q_pre.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum_Hits

VGChartz also has some data

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/70440/sonic-the-hedgehog/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/70441/sonic-the-hedgehog/

- Sonic Lost World came in third place regarding Sega's overall game sales at the end of the fiscal year in March 2014, after Total War: Rome 2 (1.13 million) and Football Manager 2014 (790.000 copies), both of which were available on more than just Nintendo platforms. Sonic Lost World was exclusively available only in the Wii U and the 3DS, but managed to sell 710.000 copies. It also reached the top spot in the Wii U sales chart and entered 4th on the 3DS. Lost World charted at #11 on the UK all-formats chart for sales during its opening week, and reception was mixed. With all of this in mind, I wouldn't count this game as a failure really. To that you can add the Steam sales from its PC re-release in 2015, of which I don't have the data.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-05-09-how-are-segas-video-games-selling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Lost_World

- Sonic and the Black Knight entered the North American Wii charts (the only platform it was released in) at 10th place and the Japanese one at 30th, but the Storybook series was cancelled because Sega in 2010 decided to do this with all the Sonic games that had "mixed or average" scores in Metacritic. Sonic and the Black Knight wasn't the exception.

http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/964/964838p1.html

https://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/04/march-2009s-top/

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/41217/Sub-standard-Sonics-de-listed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_and_the_Black_Knight

- The original 2005 Sonic Riders did not fail, and neither did Zero Gravity (no sequel would have been developed if either failed, the original Riders even made it to PlayStation's Greatest Hits).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greatest_Hits_(PlayStation)

The game that doomed the Riders series was Free Riders, which was a failure on all fronts.

- Regarding Sonic Chronicles, that game originally had a sequel in development but I guess it was cancelled because of a Ken Penders lawsuit regarding characters in the game, including the Nocturnus clan and their narrative backstory. The case was dismissed in 2013 but Sega can't use any elements, concepts, or characters from Chronicles anymore unless they want another lawsuit. I don't really know how much influence this lawsuit had on an eventual sequel though, since Penders filed the lawsuit in 2011, while the game was released in 2008, three years later. I couldn't find better sources than this one:

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Ken_Penders'_legal_cases

 

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46 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

have a logo force in to my face consistently,

...isn't that what happens when you fall off the track in ASRT? It's the only thing I can think of to have this complaint make sense, and even then it doesn't really. 

So basically, "as long as I'm less crap at this game, it'll be a better game"? I mean, sure, I guess. 

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Just now, Tracker_TD said:

...isn't that what happens when you fall off the track in ASRT? It's the only thing I can think of to have this complaint make sense, and even then it doesn't really. 

So basically, "as long as I'm less crap at this game, it'll be a better game"? I mean, sure, I guess. 

Yes, the logo pops up every time the player falls off course how doesn't that make sense? Games are made for everyone and not "you must be this tall to enter" type of thinking just imagine if Mario Kart 8 had its logo popping up like that it would feel lazy. Oh and nice burn with that "as long as I'm less crap at this game, it'll be a better game" line, it made so much more sense then the point I was making. 

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44 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Yes, the logo pops up every time the player falls off course how doesn't that make sense? Games are made for everyone and not "you must be this tall to enter" type of thinking just imagine if Mario Kart 8 had its logo popping up like that it would feel lazy. Oh and nice burn with that "as long as I'm less crap at this game, it'll be a better game" line, it make so much more sense then the point I was making. 

I'm not gonna lie dude, while I admit his comment was a bit on the antagonistic side I feel like you are literally making up problems that don't exist. A logo popping up for a split second (and leaving before you get control back) is by all definitions a nitpick and you make it sound like a serious point against the game. Now don't get me wrong, transformed does have issues (I love the crap out of the game and even i'll admit it needed more time in the oven) but you just sound like you're giving the game a bad rep since everyone isn't digging this one and if i'm wrong on that, my apologies, but that's the impression I get reading your posts.

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Just now, MegasonicZX said:

I'm not gonna lie dude, while I admit his comment was a bit on the antagonistic side I feel like you are literally making up problems that don't exist. A logo popping up for a split second (and leaving before you get control back) is by all definitions a nitpick and you make it sound like a serious point against the game. Now don't get me wrong, transformed does have issues (I love the crap out of the game and even i'll admit it needed more time in the oven) but you just sound like you're giving the game a bad rep since everyone isn't digging this one and if i'm wrong on that, my apologies, but that's the impression I get reading your posts.

I feel the same way when people complain about a frame rate drop in games, I understand what your saying.

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All this talk just makes me want to play the original ASR again, it was more fun, casual and pick up and play. I have little desire to go back to Transformed, maybe for the tracks, those were interesting.

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