Team Sonic Racing - Upcoming Sonic Racing Game

[StellarBlur]

2 hours ago, Badnik Mechanic said:

So I'm just doing a new video which is a VERY in-depth analysis of the game, and I was looking for some stock footage and came across the E3 trailer again...

Can we just talk about how terrible the marketing for this game was early on.

I mean... This was the e3 2018 trailer!
 

 

They don't show...

ANY of the team play mechanics, absolutely none. that's tons of gameplay and opportunities to show off why this game was different to all the other racers out there and none of it is shown.

Only 1 weapon is shown in action and it misses the target.

They only show one mid air trick, and they actually cut the footage to a new racer so the effect is lost.

No drifting ingame is shown which results in a speed boost.

The Team Ultimate move isn't shown in game, only via a cg sequence.

 

And this was the main trailer that they showed for months. It's not bloody wonder people thought this game looked dull when the marketing was this bad for months before they had SXSW and finally started to show it off properly.

I agree. The damage the e3 trailer did to the perception of the game cannot be understated. I'm sure the game would be even more successful if it had gotten a good e3 trailer.

[DabigRG]

3 hours ago, Badnik Mechanic said:

So I'm just doing a new video which is a VERY in-depth analysis of the game, and I was looking for some stock footage and came across the E3 trailer again...

Can we just talk about how terrible the marketing for this game was early on.

I mean... This was the e3 2018 trailer!
 

 

They don't show...

ANY of the team play mechanics, absolutely none. that's tons of gameplay and opportunities to show off why this game was different to all the other racers out there and none of it is shown.

Only 1 weapon is shown in action and it misses the target.

They only show one mid air trick, and they actually cut the footage to a new racer so the effect is lost.

No drifting ingame is shown which results in a speed boost.

The Team Ultimate move isn't shown in game, only via a cg sequence.

 

And this was the main trailer that they showed for months. It's not bloody wonder people thought this game looked dull when the marketing was this bad for months before they had SXSW and finally started to show it off properly.

Wow. Never underestimate the power of marketing.

Lends credence to the idea that SEGA is in an awkward spot lately and so have been somewhat underachieving.

[Dr. Detective]

Well, it was stated that this was just for early on. We all pretty much agreed that the marketing for the game at the very start wasn't very good. Unlike Forces it actually got a lot better though. Thankfully it's doing well.

Although, I do find it rather funny thinking back to how frothing mad everyone seemed to be at a lot of what we were initially hearing about the game. There were full on arguments about how terrible the art-style was. Everyone was freaking out about "Who's your daddy, Shadow" (a line I still haven't heard Tails say in the game yet). There was also the heavy and intense fear of how much the team mechanic would work.

I love the way this game looks, I really like (or at least don't mind) a lot of the in-game lines, and I actually prefer racing with a team here. The solo racing just doesn't take full advantage of what the game has to offer. 

The only thing that remained a steady complaint for me was the roster and stage selection. Though my opinion on the stages softened a bit when I found out what they did with Spagonia, on the whole, I do feel the lack of original content (and content in general) is holding this game back from being the absolute best it could be. 

[DabigRG]

27 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Well, it was stated that this was just for early on. We all pretty much agreed that the marketing for the game at the very start wasn't very good. Unlike Forces it actually got a lot better though. Thankfully it's doing well.

Although, I do find it rather funny thinking back to how frothing mad everyone seemed to be at a lot of what we were initially hearing about the game. There were full on arguments about how terrible the art-style was. Everyone was freaking out about "Who's your daddy, Shadow" (a line I still haven't heard Tails say in the game yet). There was also the heavy and intense fear of how much the team mechanic would work.

I love the way this game looks, I really like (or at least don't mind) a lot of the in-game lines, and I actually prefer racing with a team here. The solo racing just doesn't take full advantage of what the game has to offer. 

 

Again, it goes to show the importance of timing when it comes to something happening. Though it also goes to show how initial reactions can be premature, sometimes for the best.

The stages themselves are okay, though I personally avoid the Clock and Final Fortress stages when I can.

30 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

The only thing that remained a steady complaint for me was the roster and stage selection. Though my opinion on the stages softened a bit when I found out what they did with Spagonia, on the whole, I do feel the lack of original content (and content in general) is holding this game back from being the absolute best it could be. 

I did sorta realize that a few days ago when it comes to complaints regarding the characters that didn't get in and how the ones that did were handled, among other things. 

It's not that we dislike what's there--it's that wish there was moar of it!

[StellarBlur]

I don't think the game is doing as well as we think tbh. This May was rather dead in terms of new releases and sales apparently. 

[DabigRG]

Good sales is good sales. That's good enough for now.

[LukA8]

It seems to be doing alright on Amazon around the world (better than Forces following release), topped the weekly charts in Germany (#2 on Xbox, #3 on PS4 but only #8 for Switch) and ""charted"" in Japan selling hilarious 5,000 copies in a dead week, continuing the Japanese Sonic joke where Forces bombed with 10,000 copies even during the holiday season (I wonder how Transformed debuted there). The low budget says a lot about the expectations they had for this game, and even if it's not exactly setting records it seems to be doing surprisingly well considering that (not so sure on PC). The UK seems the most interested in this game and I think an eventual sequel/follow-up is not unlikely at all, however the scope of which will depend a lot on how badly CTR will murder this sales-wise in the long run. Until then, I'll be carefully expecting 21 characters + classic Starlight Carnival, Sky Sanctuary, Seaside Hill and Death Egg zones : P

On an entirely different note, has anyone dumped the voice lines yet? There's so much dialogue in there it's kind of crazy, and I don't think I can discover all of it anytime soon. There's reactions for hitting and being hit by a specific character, lines where cast member X encourages Y to do better which only seem to pop up online for me, and the cast's reaction to the race tracks which I can't seem to get at all. I heard of Tails being banned from Casino Park and Amy commenting on Rooftop Run shops or cafés, but all I ever got was team mate Silver saying Planet Wisp would be nice to live in. Not really sure how to trigger them and if every character has those.

[StellarBlur]

31 minutes ago, LukA8 said:

It seems to be doing alright on Amazon around the world (better than Forces following release), topped the weekly charts in Germany (#2 on Xbox, #3 on PS4 but only #8 for Switch) and ""charted"" in Japan selling hilarious 5,000 copies in a dead week, continuing the Japanese Sonic joke where Forces bombed with 10,000 copies even during the holiday season (I wonder how Transformed debuted there). The low budget says a lot about the expectations they had for this game, and even if it's not exactly setting records it seems to be doing surprisingly well considering that (not so sure on PC). The UK seems the most interested in this game and I think an eventual sequel/follow-up is not unlikely at all, however the scope of which will depend a lot on how badly CTR will murder this sales-wise in the long run. Until then, I'll be carefully expecting 21 characters + classic Starlight Carnival, Sky Sanctuary, Seaside Hill and Death Egg zones : P

Pc version is between 20k and 50k per steamspy so not great as that's worldwide.

[LukA8]

Most of Sonic's Steam ports have done rather poorly lately, this doen't seem much different. Lost World PC (keep forgetting that's a thing), Mania and Forces are all still stuck at 100,000-200,000, and part of that is definitely thanks to Denuvo. Even Bayonetta 1's PC port, an 8 year old game at the time, has reached 500,000+. Transformed did as well, but I remember the game had loads of discounts and wasn't it even free for a while?

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, LukA8 said:

It seems to be doing alright on Amazon around the world (better than Forces following release), topped the weekly charts in Germany (#2 on Xbox, #3 on PS4 but only #8 for Switch) and ""charted"" in Japan selling hilarious 5,000 copies in a dead week, continuing the Japanese Sonic joke where Forces bombed with 10,000 copies even during the holiday season (I wonder how Transformed debuted there).

"Charted?" "Bombed?"

On what metrics are you talking here?

[StellarBlur]

53 minutes ago, LukA8 said:

Most of Sonic's Steam ports have done rather poorly lately, this doen't seem much different. Lost World PC (keep forgetting that's a thing), Mania and Forces are all still stuck at 100,000-200,000, and part of that is definitely thanks to Denuvo. Even Bayonetta 1's PC port, an 8 year old game at the time, has reached 500,000+. Transformed did as well, but I remember the game had loads of discounts and wasn't it even free for a while?

Transformed did 1.2 million. TSR should have done better considering transformed built an audience for it on pc. Gens did 600k, SA2 did 400k and SA1 did 300k. TSR absolutely had the potential to do better even if Mania didn't do that well. Forces and LW's failure is self-explanatory due to their reception. I actually kinda like LW btw.

[StellarBlur]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

"Charted?" "Bombed?"

On what metrics are you talking here?

10k at release during the holidays is a bomb.

[Sega DogTagz]

3 hours ago, LukA8 said:

on an entirely different note, has anyone dumped the voice lines yet? There's so much dialogue in there it's kind of crazy, and I don't think I can discover all of it anytime soon.

Looking forward to that too. There are a lot of situational lines and I am pretty sure I'll only hear the one's for the small handful of characters I happen to main.

Sonic shaking his fist and shouting "You'll get yours Metal Sonic" made my day.

 

Also, the character renders are gorgeous. I can't wait for those to get ripped out too.

[Blue Blood]

11 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

There were full on arguments about how terrible the art-style was. Everyone was freaking out about "Who's your daddy, Shadow" (a line I still haven't heard Tails say in the game yet).

Tails does still say that line. I thought it had been cut until it finally showed up after several days of playing.

And for the record, I still don't like the artstyle. Seeing locations like Rooftop Run and Planet Wisp rendered with such a cartoony style is a massive disappointment after Unleashed, Generations and Colours. The game looks good, but the art direction here (which takes cues from Forces) is a step down from the previous ASR games.

[JezMM]

I won't lie, my entire playthrough I didn't once think about the earlier discussions of the art style at all. It all looked absolutely fine to me. I could kind of tell that Rooftop Run wasn't quite as lovingly detailed as it is in Unleashed and Generations but in that way of like "well of course it isn't, you never go as close to the buildings as you'd need to for that kind of detail in this game".

Maybe the simplifications are more prominent on other consoles where you're playing it slightly higher res at 60 FPS? But on Switch nothing about the visuals ever took me out of the experience by being like, noticable. Hell, I was actually astounded by how the ASR tracks look compared to the original game. Playing TSR I felt like they looked pretty much as I remembered them (other than the Casino Park overhauls and the Forces Death Egg Robots added to Final Fortress). Was astounded at the difference when I saw some side-by-sides later on.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

Still funny a platform game has better graphics then a racing game, since platform games usually can't spend too much time on scenery as they have complicated level design to focus on, where racers are expected to be a lot more generous with their scenery as they expect you to drive around the same track over and over again.
Not to mention being from an earlier console generation...

But I'm fine with the artstyle, I was from the start. It's nice to enjoy Planet Wisps scenery in it's full glory, without having to worry about labyrinth level design.
It looks great and they add a few neat Sonic Lost World twists to them that I really love, like the tree trunk tunnels.
It's surpising how much I dislike Lost World's art style in and on itself, but how I love it when they mix it with the more realistic and detailed levels from Sonic's past.

Only track that I didn't like much is Haunted Castle, thanks to the "random objects flying in the air" design I just think is lazy.
And I wish the "frozen junkyard" put more emphasis on the junkyard, that being the more interesting and unique aspect of the level, rather then a generic ice level with some bits of metal here and there.
That and I was facepalming at the vulcano in the ice level and the green goop in the sewers in Spagonia.
Guys, you already recycled 9 of your racetracks from the previous Sonic racings, stop dangling Billy Hatcher/ House of the dead's visual elements in my face as well.
Just make a complete remake of All Stars racing already, geez.

I'm also amused at how much focus Shadow gets in the marketing, cartoon, comics, the intro, the E3 trailer, being the only one besides Sonic to get a balloon in-level.... And then being a complete non-entity in the game itself.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

Good game, just hated the Daredevil levels and Sky Road's Ring Challenge.

Grand Prix Hard in story is downright ridiculous sometimes. Do you know how many times I finished 1st, but my idiotic teammates finish like 5th/12th or something like that? Even when I item box transfer a lot of times? 

Maybe only one or two times that a teammate finishes higher than me as well.

[Dr. Detective]

11 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

Tails does still say that line. I thought it had been cut until it finally showed up after several days of playing.

And for the record, I still don't like the artstyle. Seeing locations like Rooftop Run and Planet Wisp rendered with such a cartoony style is a massive disappointment after Unleashed, Generations and Colours. The game looks good, but the art direction here (which takes cues from Forces) is a step down from the previous ASR games.

I wasn't denying it was in the game, There's just so many lines in the game that I've realized the initial outpouring of hatred for it was even more silly than I initially thought because it being in the game means almost nothing as it turns out. Tails was fine here.

I also actually mostly agree with you about the art-style too. I never outright hated the art-style here as I think it's more pleasing to my eye than what I saw in Forces but that might just be because the locations in general are more interesting to look at. I really start to not like it in the Glacierland area because that's the least original of the locations and it sticks out as especially generic and odd in comparison to the other places that have more detail by virtue of being levels that were created with that more intricate art-style in mind.

I don't want anyone to get it twisted. I still very much would choose the Unleashed style in a heartbeat over this but I can't say I thought it was a massive disappointment the way it was overall done in this game. Or even really something worthy of the amount of vitriol it was getting at the start of this thread.

 

[Meta77]

The team mechanics really hold the game honestly.  You can be a amazing racer but God forbid your teammates suck then a first place for you means nothing if they can't keep up

[Milo]

Here's some debut charts of TSR in Europe, Australasia, and Japan (noticed LukA8 already got some of them covered).

- Australia and New Zealand (iGEA) - in both AU and NZ, TSR was #1 in the Top Ten Boxed Retail charts overall. TSR was #1 across all three platform charts in AU (PS4/XBO/NSW), while in New Zealand TSR came in #2 for PS4 and XBO charts and #5 on Switch charts.

- Switzerland (Hitparade.ch) - TSR opened at #1 in their top ten charts.

- France (S.E.L.L.) - Switch version is the leading SKU, ranking #5 for the week overall. #1 on XBO, #3 on PS4 and Switch.

- Germany (GfK) - TSR opened at #2 on XBO, #3 on PS4, and #8 on Switch.

- Spain (Vandal) - Switch and PS4 came in at #4 and #5 in the overall top ten. Report however notes the sales results are pretty mum for a property as well-known as Sonic: TSR was the only new release for the week, yet the Switch and PS4 versions respectively only moved 1900 and 1800 units.

- Italy (IlVideogioco) - TSR opened at #7 in their Overall Top 50 list. PS4 was #18 and Switch was #20 in their Top 200 individual charts (Xbox One was #163). TSR was #8 on Switch, #11 on XBO. (Unfortunately, PS4 charts aren't there last I checked.) (EDIT: Charts posted the following week showed the PS4 version debuting at #11.)

Japan charts are also in. Not in Media Create Sales' general top ten charts. For Famitsu's individual charts, Switch version debuted at #13 (3,329 units), while PS4 version debuted a few spots behind it at #16 (2,432 units). No shocker there for Sonic, although this was reportedly one of the slowest week for videogame sales as a whole in the country.

---

Going back to the UK charts, TSR dropped to #3 for its second week, surpassed by Blood and Truth at #1 (marking the first time ever a VR game opened at #1 in the UK) and Fifa '19 at #2. On the individual charts, Switch version ranked #9, PS4 ranked #10 , and XBO ranked #24. Across top 20 platform-specific charts, TSR was #3 on Switch, #5 on XBO, and #6 on PS4. NintendoEverything.com's Switch eShop charts also shows TSR debuting at #16 on the All Games list as of June 1st.

Bonus: Dunno if it was mentioned here, but TSR topping the charts in the UK marked the first time a Sonic game accomplished that feat since....Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games, all the way back in 2008.

[StellarBlur]

8 minutes ago, Milo said:

Here's some debut charts of TSR in Europe, Australasia, and Japan (noticed LukA8 already got some of them covered).

- Australia and New Zealand (iGEA) - in both AU and NZ, TSR was #1 in the Top Ten Boxed Retail charts overall. TSR was #1 across all three platform charts in AU (PS4/XBO/NSW), while in New Zealand TSR came in #2 for PS4 and XBO charts and #5 on Switch charts.

- Switzerland (Hitparade.ch) - TSR opened at #1 in their top ten charts.

- France (S.E.L.L.) - Switch version is the leading SKU, ranking #5 for the week overall. #1 on XBO, #3 on PS4 and Switch.

- Germany (GfK) - TSR opened at #2 on XBO, #3 on PS4, and #8 on Switch.

- Spain (Vandal) - Switch and PS4 came in at #4 and #5 in the overall top ten. Report however notes the sales results are pretty mum for a property as well-known as Sonic: TSR was the only new release for the week, yet the Switch and PS4 versions respectively only moved 1900 and 1800 units.

- Italy (IlVideogioco) - TSR opened at #7 in their Overall Top 50 list. PS4 was #18 and Switch was #20 in their Top 200 individual charts (Xbox One was #163). TSR was #8 on Switch, #11 on XBO. (Unfortunately, PS4 charts aren't there last I checked.)

Japan charts are also in. Not in Media Create Sales' general top ten charts. For Famitsu's individual charts, Switch version debuted at #13 (3,329 units), while PS4 version debuted a few spots behind it at #16 (2,432 units). No shocker there for Sonic, although this was reportedly one of the slowest week for videogame sales as a whole in the country.

---

Going back to the UK charts, TSR dropped to #3 for its second week, surpassed by Blood and Truth at #1 (marking the first time ever a VR game opened at #1 in the UK) and Fifa '19 at #2. On the individual charts, Switch version ranked #9, PS4 ranked #10 , and XBO ranked #24. Across top 20 platform-specific charts, TSR was #3 on Switch, #5 on XBO, and #6 on PS4. NintendoEverything.com's Switch eShop charts also shows TSR debuting at #16 on the All Games list as of June 1st.

Bonus: Dunno if it was mentioned here, but TSR topping the charts in the UK marked the first time a Sonic game accomplished that feat since....Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games, all the way back in 2008.

Yeah it seems to be high up the charts but since this is a slow period of the year without any new releases, it doesn't mean much. 

[Dr. Detective]

12 hours ago, StellarBlur said:

Yeah it seems to be high up the charts but since this is a slow period of the year without any new releases, it doesn't mean much. 

I don't understand why there's this concerted effort to make sure this means as little as it possibly can on here. Yeah, there's factors at play for why it's doing well but putting all your stock in saying it's only doing well because "There's nothing out so might as well spend 40 bucks on Sonic" and stating that it overall "doesn't mean much"  is weird. 

If the game is doing well, it's doing well. I'm not saying whatever circumstances behind why don't matter but goodness me guys. Even I'm not this much of a negative nancy. 

[StellarBlur]

39 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I don't understand why there's this concerted effort to make sure this means as little as it possibly can on here. Yeah, there's factors at play for why it's doing well but putting all your stock in saying it's only doing well because "There's nothing out so might as well spend 40 bucks on Sonic" and stating that it overall "doesn't mean much"  is weird. 

If the game is doing well, it's doing well. I'm not saying whatever circumstances behind why don't matter but goodness me guys. Even I'm not this much of a negative nancy. 

I want this game to do well. I really really really do. It's a good game and I love the Sonic franchise and I want it to do well. However, I've been following sales analyst insiders and most of them have been saying that while TSR is charting well, it's numbers aren't anything to write home about because it's a dead month without competition. Something like 10k in the UK might've gotten it first place but most other big games in the UK this year opened way above that (15-20k+ on the low end). Sonic really should be capable of doing better. It's estimated that Yoshi got a 15k opening in the UK on switch only... while TSR is on three platforms covered by the UK charts. Sonic is barely matching the sales of a Yoshi game (in the UK) despite being available on more platforms. This doesn't seem that great to me.

Something else to consider is that there are reports of the online lobbies being empty which means either SUMO needs to fix their stuff or it's not selling that well or both. 

I dunno. I just want Sonic to do well and be rewarded for the good games the series puts out. I want this game to have DLC. Sigh. Perhaps I'm too negative. This is a decent result but I don't know if it's good. Only actual numbers or SEGA could tell us.

[Eurisko]

Any tips on how to beat a GP on hard in Adventure mode?

I seem to do ok but the AI team mates are a nightmare! They just don’t get the points in. 

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

25 minutes ago, Eurisko said:

Any tips on how to beat a GP on hard in Adventure mode?

I seem to do ok but the AI team mates are a nightmare! They just don’t get the points in. 

Use Team Ultimate Extended Bonus box and item transfer to a mate, then ask for it back. That's all the advice I can give you.

The AI teammates sometimes do well, sometimes they'll do awful and there's nothing you can do about it.

Just focus on finishing 1st. Luckily there are 4 races, so one bad race you can still recover.

 

EDIT: Also be wary of taking shortcuts. If you are ahead, and you take a shortcut that only certain classes can go through, because the AI would want to get a slingshot, they'll follow your trail and can actually slow them down.