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Team Sonic Racing - Upcoming Sonic Racing Game

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Most of the old Sonic racing tracks have been drastically changed though. Just look at how much Lost Palace got changed.

They probably took just as much, if maybe a little less, time to reimagine as the new tracks took to be made

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Maybe. There is a significant enough visual difference between those two stages but that's to be expected considering how old the original Lost Palace was. I'm not arguing it didn't take a lot of time to do but there's nothing about the way it looks that's jumping out at me as something that was done for artistic integrity. If it took as much time to make that as it took to make a new track you'd think they'd just make a new track entirely.

There's no reasons the three versions of Seaside Hill, Casino Park, and Final Fortress needed to follow the same formula as the ones from the old game to the point where it's almost impossible to differentiate between them within the game. The only difference that jumps out at me in my mind between Thunder Deck and Dark Arsenal is that you can go outside for a bit on the Thunder Deck and Dark Arsenal takes place entirely inside the fortress. I couldn't tell you the difference between Turbine Loop and Dark Arsenal without having to go back and look at the footage.

They made the three versions of some of the other areas more distinct from each other on purpose. If they could do that just as easily with no extra cost to those other three zones I don't know why they wouldn't follow that consistent formula. You'd think it'd go a long way towards making the stages stand out more.

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On 7/5/2019 at 4:53 AM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

The only real huge difference between some of the Casino levels (that took me a while to even notice) was that one of them was set in Space while the other two were just merely high up in the sky.

Shame, because one of the tracks is Pinball themed.
Would be awesome if they put more effort to make that look like an actual giant pinball you're driving trough (Perhaps including a giant creepy player in the sky "playing" the machine)
But while the finished track does have some pinball elements like a very empty table (Not even wacky illustrations and props on the pinball table? Lame. Ever seen a Pinball table and all the crazy stuff they add on them?) but there's just as many generic casino assets around the track as well so the whole pinball theme just gets lost in the general "Here's a bunch of random Casino/ Pinball theme'd items flying magically in space for no reason" feel of the thing.

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14 hours ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Shame, because one of the tracks is Pinball themed.
Would be awesome if they put more effort to make that look like an actual giant pinball you're driving trough (Perhaps including a giant creepy player in the sky "playing" the machine)
But while the finished track does have some pinball elements like a very empty table (Not even wacky illustrations and props on the pinball table? Lame. Ever seen a Pinball table and all the crazy stuff they add on them?) but there's just as many generic casino assets around the track as well so the whole pinball theme just get's lost in the general "Here's a bunch of random Casino/ Pinball theme'd items flying magically in space for no reason" feel of the thing.

Or maybe homage a specific Sonic pinball game/moment while they're at it. A Puyo table with Suketoudara playing, for one.

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On 7/4/2019 at 10:17 PM, Plasme said:

I posted this in the Crash thread, but I'm copying it over here because I think it's pertinent.

Is there any hard evidence that TSR was made on a very low budget, because I don't think getting a delay indicates a 'ridiculously low' budget to be honest.

Because, people assume a lot of tracks were just imported from the past Sonic racing games when it could have been an artistic decision. That and the returning levels are completely remade and would have had a lot of money and resources put into them.

I don’t think there is hard evidence of low budget development apart from their low set RRP (£34.99). Most stores sold it when it came out new for £24.99, and GAME even flogged it for a tenner under another deal in the first week of sales.

I think the priorities of this game (compared to Crash) were quite different, and undoubtedly Activision had more money to throw at Beenox despite CTR being released on a budget RRP to the same value. 

STR is still a highly polished game IMO, and I agree that yes, the 9 tracks from the first game could well have been a creative decision for inclusion - but that doesn’t negate the effort put in to spruce those tracks up. They are visually gorgeous and look great compared to their last gen brethren.

But undoubtedly it was a time saver on development time. Whilst changes were made, the tracks weren’t modified enough to fit the new gameplay style and just don’t really work compared to the 12 new creations IMO. The Transformed track especially is the blandest of the lot because the most interesting element of it has been completely removed.

Saying that, having played CTR for 2 weeks straight and going back to TSR. My god. Apart from the 60FPS I can’t believe how clean and bland most of these levels are. The visual polish, cues and extra touches in the very recreation on a Crash track makes this game feel so lifeless in comparison. Beenox added so many distinct little Easter eggs and visual gags (that I am still finding) hidden in every track. And Sumo went and added Sonic and Shadow Balloons. 

But going back to the budget price TSR was sold at - this is why a lot of TSR’s shortcomings are almost excusable - the jpeg cutscenes in story mode, only 12 new tracks overall, 15 characters unlocked from the start, no DLC or long term support beyond its release means its been made as budget title and for good reason.

This is a crying shame because it deserves the long term content commitment and treatment that CTR is currently receiving.

I feel that whilst SUMO handled certain elements of their game better than Crash by including everything “in game” and having a much more satisfactory way of unlocking things via the POD - there just wasn’t any interesting content to unlock itself. 

We had all characters from the get go and it was only Car Parts and Mods (half of which are recycled) that are rewarded? First big mistake. No extra characters? Not even skins?? 

Customisation is also pinned as one of this game’s bigs features and AGAIN CTR blows this out of the water. Not only are there 1000’s of combinations you can make between karts and characters in the game but the entire system is also more user friendly and accessible.

TSR also had no optional way to play the specific missions or challenges other than on a few select tracks in adventure mode. This bummed me out so much. Why was there not a single player option to mix and match these challenges on every track? Also, Why is Mirror Mode not available (to my knowledge) on single player races to select - even that was a feature in Transformed. I think the worst offender is the “unlockable reward” of the worst 3 tracks (and old tracks to boot) in the franchise for beating story mode. Amazing. 

Basically, A lot more could have been done. But it wasn’t. The value and longevity a player gets from TSR fits the bill we paid sadly, and it sucks because the newer content was amazing. I played and finished and really enjoyed my time with TSR over the first week I had it. Once adventure mode was done though... so was I (apart from local co-op with mates).

CTR is still keeping me going beyond finishing its single player adventure mode. There are double the amount of characters AND tracks and these are unlocked through additional challenges or through an in game store. The Grand Prix events act as free DLC and incentivise play through missions and challenges and skilled player will unlock content even faster. These limited time events give more incentive for me to play. I really wish TSR had this level of backing because the game does deserve it.

It’s also really weird that Crash is a faster racing game than TSR, and by quite a stretch.

Apologies if this turned into a comparison post. But considering both games released under supposed budget prices I felt this was relevant.

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I will say that this is a game that's still easy for me to pick up and play. There was seriously a day where I played as Tails in the same Casino level for about 45 minutes, over and over, and I found I wasn't getting bored. Even now, trying to get all these moons in Mario Odyssey, I'm still thinking about plugging it back in and doing some races.

I think it might be because it's so much easier to imagine it as the actual characters doing actual races together rather than a bunch of bots, thanks to the way the game was set up. My body just has an affinity for playing as these characters and being in that world. If the game is good, I doubt I'd ever get truly tired of it.

That just goes to show how making the game so much more than what it currently is would have gone a long way. I wouldn't even need to consider giving CTR a try had this game impressed more than it had.

I mean it's such a shame. This game is a lot of fun but I have to continue stressing the issue of the lack of content. Sometimes, it's just not okay to just have good gameplay and call it day. We're seeing the effects of that mentality at work here. I already knew the argument was bullshit so I certainly didn't need yet another example as to why. 

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Yeah it is a lot of fun. Those who had issues with CTR should really try this out, and maybe then rent it, IDK, play it for a couple of weeks and then bye. Adventure mode isn't even that annoying compared to Crash, there's more of a variety of missions to do, they should, again, tone the difficulty down. But the fact that those missions aren't story related is a huge plus, they are just for extra customization. It even sold okay in the first month, SEGA should not have let go with this game immediately after release.

Things I want them to fix/add in Patches:

- Feature to choose your Whole team in exhibition

- Those online special races in single player as well

- Lower difficulty for expert in the infamous extra missions for Adventure

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5 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

We're seeing the effects of that mentality at work here. I already knew the argument was bullshit so I certainly didn't need yet another example as to why. 

I don’t see this as the result of this mentality at all. Largely because content is directly tied to gameplay, but also because the gameplay isn’t that great either. Adventure Mode is a tedious slog of repetitive missions with teammates that can and will screw you over, as well as missions that can be more trouble than they’re worth, and the time when the game actually works as it should (Online) doesn’t work period, at least on PC.

Gameplay, in terms of Sonic, is far more relevant to content than it is to graphics or story, which is what the “prioritise gameplay” crowd usually mean. Not “give us less content”, though I will say personally that a shorter extremely good game is preferable to a longer mediocre game, which is why I like Mania most despite it at a glance being shorter than most Sonic games.

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4 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

I don’t see this as the result of this mentality at all. Largely because content is directly tied to gameplay, but also because the gameplay isn’t that great either. Adventure Mode is a tedious slog of repetitive missions with teammates that can and will screw you over, as well as missions that can be more trouble than they’re worth, and the time when the game actually works as it should (Online) doesn’t work period, at least on PC.

Gameplay, in terms of Sonic, is far more relevant to content than it is to graphics or story, which is what the “prioritise gameplay” crowd usually mean. Not “give us less content”, though I will say personally that a shorter extremely good game is preferable to a longer mediocre game, which is why I like Mania most despite it at a glance being shorter than most Sonic games.

I didn't say they mean to tell us to "give us less content". The results of just focusing on the gameplay only is all I'm talking about here, and that definitely can lead to less content whether the "prioritise gameplay" crowd desires it or not. That's certainly whats happened here. Its happened with a lot of Sonic games.

Seems its necessary to clarify that "Gameplay" in the context of what I was saying, I was only referring to in terms of the way the cars function and how its mechanics work while racing. The structure of the missions and all the nuiances surrounding it can be a part of that, sure, but it was largely a semantics thing and adding too many variables to what I mean when I say "gameplay" was going to unnecessarily muddy what I was talking about. However, if you wish to be that precise about it then you're correct. I don't really have any desire to get into an argument about what falls under the monickur of "gameplay" honestly.

I'd argue that the missions being repetitive is a direct result of the distinct lack of content though. I also don't actually have an issue with the Ai so thats less of an objective matter in my view. I still think this game is fun and the general "gamplay" is, on its own, just fine. I also never play games online because fuck that noise.

This comment also wasn't about a shorter game versus a longer one. At least not in terms of story. I don't like talking about preferring shorter, more polished experiences versus a mediocre, long one because I don't feel as though I should have to choose between the two when speaking generally.

Mania doesn't look like a game thats lacking in content for what kind of game it is anyway.

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Friend lent me a copy after I traded mine in so I got to play again recently.  And yeah, still doesn't compare to Crash or  Mario Kart.  Weak stage designs,  the absolutely awful adventure mode, and barely functional online are just a few reasons I find this game inferior to the competition. TBH the safest bet atm is to go with Mario Kart 8 seeing as its the most polished of the 3.

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If I ever tire of this game I'll just go back to either of the first two All-Stars games. I still need to get familiar with Crash before I even consider touching CTR and Mario Kart is still hard for me to care about even after becoming infatuated with Odyssey.

Really goddamn wish Sonic will be allowed to get his shit together one day. 

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17 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

If I ever tire of this game I'll just go back to either of the first two All-Stars games. I still need to get familiar with Crash before I even consider touching CTR and Mario Kart is still hard for me to care about even after becoming infatuated with Odyssey.

Really goddamn wish Sonic will be allowed to get his shit together one day. 

There are the comics... May Boom rest in peace. MODE

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So is anybody still playing this? I saw some folks online saying that because of the recent CTR controversy they're gonna go back and play it but I've only ran into 2 people in separate races. I hope other guys are having better luck than me. 

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1 hour ago, Dejimon11 said:

So is anybody still playing this? I saw some folks online saying that because of the recent CTR controversy they're gonna go back and play it but I've only ran into 2 people in separate races. I hope other guys are having better luck than me. 

I don't play online and finally stopped playing for a while nearly four weeks ago.

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On 8/14/2019 at 6:57 PM, Dejimon11 said:

So is anybody still playing this? I saw some folks online saying that because of the recent CTR controversy they're gonna go back and play it but I've only ran into 2 people in separate races. I hope other guys are having better luck than me. 

The Optional Micro-transactions controversy of CTR won’t change the almost non-existence of players online playing TSR anytime soon. I have logged in numerous times over the last few weeks and have been lucky on occasion to come across 1 person to play against. 

The problem isn't just that the game isn’t as fun to play as CTR - because it does have its own charms. But ultimately there are no incentives or rewards to play this game beyond the single player campaign, and there isn’t even anything to unlock after that. The reward is that the game has to just be fun to play. 

It’s a shame because there is actually a gem of a game here hidden underneath the lacklustre offerings.

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I admit I have been too harsh on the game recently, I blame Sega for what happened, they basically gave up because of CTR. No more promotion after one month, no updates besides one patch, no DLC and that was their fair choice.

The game itself is cool, Sumo did the best they could with that budget, Sega's philosophy recently is "people will buy my low effort if I sell it for the equal low price". Except the game deserved better because there is good stuff in there, bits of obscure fanservice, decent enough track design, cool innovative and sofisticated gameplay that blows Crash away, a way better adventure mode which offers more variety of admittely painful missions. But it's not as annoying as CTR's adventure and bosses.

The characters are even charming in the dialogue and in-game interactions. The customization is way deeper here too. Crash has skins, this is what TSR should have done too. 

Music is amazing obviously, and there is enough variety in tracks design plus each track fits the team gimmick. The rehashed tracks are okay, revamped quite enough, it's obvious they were added to expand the list, but they could have been so much more. Ah, the possibilities with this game.

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It’s a fantastic game. But ultimately a barebones experience which really REALLY sucks.

Too often do Sonic games capitalise on the unnecessary gimmicks and shoehorn in unneeded content relating to it. But the opposite is in effect here, there is not enough of what is offered. And unfortunately CTR highlights this to an unprecedentedly huge degree. 

The reality of both titles should have been reversed. CTR is simply a remake and TSR is new title that should be giving Crash a run for its money. But it’s the opposite. 

Sonic has a larger and more varied history to play around with, not to mention a huge array of characters that should have made it in here. Yet CTR is better in (almost) every way. It’s has over double the amount of characters (and growing) almost twice the amount of tracks (again that are growing) and online modes and incentives that TSR just cant live up too. In fact it doesn’t even try to offer anything new outside of the single player adventure.

The rewards system is sorely lacking - and whilst I can somewhat appreciate their mantra of “everything is available to the player in the game”... this was the wrong direction to take - especially when there isn’t much anyway. Personally, I like to earn my rewards rather than them be handed to me from the get go. It also hurt that there were no new character or skins or tracks to obtain just Mods and decals and colours. In actual fact The ultimate unlockable in the game from completing the main story campaign is to be able to play the 3 final tracks. All 3 of which are remakes from the Sonic Heroes Sky fortress area from SAASR, all of which are the blandest visually, and all are arguably the least interesting course designs to race in the entire series in general. Thanks Sumo.

Now, TSR has a slightly deeper customisation aspect, granted - but CTR ultimately just does it better by streamlining your selections. I think because your stats are limited to characters only makes the experience much more enjoyable to customise as well. Like Mario Kart 8 the idea in theory is sound, but I loathe the MOD parts in TSR because all too often to race with the stats I want mean I have to sacrifice how I personally want my kart to look - and this sucks.

I will say that whilst I personally prefer Adventure mode in CTR, there is certainly a bit more variety in TSR. The issue I mainly have is in it’s presentation - which is sorely lacking due to budget restrictions. I also wish that the events in adventure mode and that are randomly selected online were optional and available to do on every track outside of the story mode to your own choosing in local play. There is absolutely no reason why it should not be available, even if it were just for local multiplayer. Lighting races, traffic attack, daredevil... etc... these are great modes to play outside the team based mechanic.

So, why does CTR have EVERY mode available to allow you to customise your race but TSR just gives you one option to play as a single player or team (or time trial) and that’s it? It’s just not acceptable.

There is just so much more this game could have been. But CTR just does everything better - it’s even a faster racer than TSR, which is nuts. I dunno, it’s a remake and yet laughably it probably has more original content.

I think if Sumo or SEGA provided more incentives, unlockables that are meaningful, actual online support and challenges, fun character skins, more Sonic Verse Characters and threw out the out of place tracks from the previous 2 games to replace them with more original courses, then I think we’d have had more of a winner on our hands.

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