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Team Sonic Racing - Upcoming Sonic Racing Game

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8 hours ago, StellarBlur said:

They had this screenshot for the Ivory Wisp.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't seem to be from either Ocean View or Whale Lagoon... which means it must be the third Seaside Hill stage. It's kinda disappointing that we're indeed getting a third seaside hill track but at least it looks like it isn't Lost Palace or Ocean Ruin so it must be a new stage ! It looks like it takes place in a jungle as well so they're changing it up somewhat. Hopefully there's also a beach portion of the track because I love beaches haha.

While it looks different, the map layout is exactly Lost Palace, down to the shortcut they had in the original. So yeah, there we have our third Seaside Hill track : P

At least sneak in Galactic Parade or even Sanctuary Falls somewhere, those tracks were far more interesting than the All-Stars ones.

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Meh, so 9 old tracks? Not only this game lacks new content, or content in general, but the old tracks were so boring and basic, so yes, I'm hoping at least for Thunder Deck and Galactic Parade to return, my favorite from ASR and Transformed, but it's really disappointing that likely the final track of the game is from 9 years ago. 

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I've been going back and playing the two previous games in the series. The original ASR was a great racing game, and I'd argue much more fun than Mario Kart Wii (the direct comparison at the time). But man, I forgot how rough and low-budget it felt a lot of the time; voice clips were recycled wherever possible and they were hilariously out of context half of the time (Big was the only Sonic character with new clips); characters lacked any kind of facial animation leading to them all flailing around with crazy hand gestures and faces like 😐; menus were totally barebones, there was no new music for the actual race tracks themselves, tracks were poorly refined so all too often you'd overshoot jumps before clipping through the scenery... 

The game was good. And Sumo put it out on every platform going, including the DS. It was really anything but lazy or phoned in. It could have done with some extra capital to really make it the best it could be. You could really, really see the effort that went into it.

And then ASRT came around which, frankly, was absolutely fucking brilliant and it'll always bother me that that game will live in Mario Kart's shadow by sheer virtue of its genre. It was really something special. The roster took a bit of a hit in places, giving us rubbish like Ralph and Danica Patrick for some pretty weak and short-lived cross promotions (plus they quite detestably axed Big). Items were painfully generic in design too which made them uninteresting and unfitting from an aesthetic perspective, but I can easily look part that because of well balanced they were and what the brought to the table. And really that's where ASRT's big flaws end.

The driving was so much more refined than the original, and really doubled down on speed and drifting to make for an Arcade racer that didn't really feel anything like Mario Kart. It was truly its own beast. I get that some people didn't like the flying or boating sections, citing them as either too difficult, less refined or simply less fun than driving. I disagree with that vehemently. Aside from certain set-pieces being limited to the player in first place and those very close behind (especially regarding waves in the boating sections), I thought they were great additions. They were weaved in effortlessly with the track transformations, which were just so cool. Two laps around Ocean View as normal, before the start of the track decided to lower you into the water for a totally different final lap. Or Burning Depths where the track got progressively more flooded, and Dragon Canyon where bits of the track crumbled, forcing the race first into a river and then into the air above the river. It was soooooo good. Aside from a single cup of tracks returning from the first game, all of the levels were brand new. There was a great representation of SEGA IPs in them, without the recycled assets of the Sonic zones in the first and each was accompanied by a banging new remix from Richard Jacques.

TSR doesn't look as good as ASRT. It looks really good for what it is, don't get me wrong. But it's really lacking the wow-factor. There are pros and cons to the Sonic-only focus compared to the SEGA party we had before, and I'll just say that they could have easily made it a SEGA party again if that's what they wanted. The driving mechanics look like ASRT only further refined. Losing the flying and boating makes the game more focused and accessible, and probably wouldn't have been all too compatible with all the team -based mechanics they've created. And speaking of those, they seem to be pretty well thought out. From juggling items to help your teammates to chaining together all manner of different boost combos to propel each other forward, there appears to be a lot of depth to the system. It's not as simple as slapping racers into teams and totalling their points together. There's an utterly fantastic soundtrack for this game too (possibly one of the best in the entire Sonic history, imo).

But it's just... weak in areas it shouldn't be. I'm certain I read/heard somewhere that the game was only going to be 4 old tracks, and that the remaining 17 would be all new (can't find the source now though). If I'm right on that, the old tracks are Ocean View, Whale Lagoon, Lost Palace (literally all of Seaside Hill) and Bingo Party. It could be that any track based on a previously used zone is recycled though, which would be even worse and will bump the number of recycled tracks up to at least 6, maybe even 9. It's already a shame to see the same locations reused without almost half of them being lifted from older games. Although credit has to be given where it's due because it seems like Sumo has gone above and beyond to make the levels unique from each other; Rooftop Run has the city streets, a flying pathway in the sky and the haunted castle, for example. The roster is missing some characters who really should have been shoe-ins; 15 characters is a pretty small number and did anyone actually want Zavok? Just let him die, SEGA. He sucks. The Wisps all look functionally sound, but the game focusing on items brings it much closer to Mario Kart.

And the final part that I just will not let go is this:

jpg

This game has nothing to do with R. It looks a hell of a lot better than R (objectively speaking, because I love R and it'll always have a very special place in my heart). But R this game is not. In a series about characters who run fast and who get into races every now and then, R is notable for being the only on-foot racing game, instead of being based on cars or hoverboards. Sure, Rivals is a thing but that's a 2.5D platformer with a 1-on-1 racing gimmick tacked on. Sonic R has a legacy about it that this game is milking for no good reason. By all accounts, TSR is ASR3. All that SEGA needed to do was not try to call back to R with that logo. This is a driving game. It's totally different...

Rant over. I'm honestly really excited for TSR. It looks like it's going to be really fun. The main downside is that it's lacking in content, particularly original content. It can still be good despite that, and Sumo have a good track record. 

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10 hours ago, LukA8 said:

While it looks different, the map layout is exactly Lost Palace, down to the shortcut they had in the original. So yeah, there we have our third Seaside Hill track : P

At least sneak in Galactic Parade or even Sanctuary Falls somewhere, those tracks were far more interesting than the All-Stars ones.

This is really disappointing. The two all star racing tracks are really basic and while Ocean View is better... it's still just the intro track of transformed. Yeah maybe we can get Galactic Parade to close up the casino zone. I dunno where they could put Sanctuary Falls tho.

8 hours ago, Jack the Shadow said:

Meh, so 9 old tracks? Not only this game lacks new content, or content in general, but the old tracks were so boring and basic, so yes, I'm hoping at least for Thunder Deck and Galactic Parade to return, my favorite from ASR and Transformed, but it's really disappointing that likely the final track of the game is from 9 years ago. 

I really doubt it's 9 tracks. That'd be ridiculous. I have a slight hope that Roulette Road is merged with the third bingo all star track and the third track is something new (or at least Galactic Parade). I really doubt the last zone will be fully recycled. We haven't seen a single track that could serve as an epic final track. I'm expecting a new Final Fortress track to fill that slot at least.

The disappointing thing is that they managed to much variety with the ice zone, the desert zone, spagonia and yet... we get three seaside hill tracks that barely differentiate in aesthetics from one another. On top of it, those tracks aren't that interesting.

Something I noticed is that while they bothered setting Bingo Party in space, Roulette Road still looks to be set in the city.

57166067_2122878904669372_372658455254663168_n.png?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq3-1.fna&oh=809388e47ccb9864b4d63644b47f7d64&oe=5D737BDE

57029093_763278287399052_7835119661963280384_n.png?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fymq3-1.fna&oh=048e1f72b851dba779e402df328e32d3&oe=5D774B52

The fact that they took the time to make new assets for Bingo Party gives me hope that the last track is something new that will take advantage of those assets. Hence, my hope for Tropical Resort... or Galactic Parade. It's strange that they'd change Bingo Party so much visually and keep Seaside Hill the same.

2 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

I've been going back and playing the two previous games in the series. The original ASR was a great racing game, and I'd argue much more fun than Mario Kart Wii (the direct comparison at the time). But man, I forgot how rough and low-budget it felt a lot of the time; voice clips were recycled wherever possible and they were hilariously out of context half of the time (Big was the only Sonic character with new clips); characters lacked any kind of facial animation leading to them all flailing around with crazy hand gestures and faces like 😐; menus were totally barebones, there was no new music for the actual race tracks themselves, tracks were poorly refined so all too often you'd overshoot jumps before clipping through the scenery... 

The game was good. And Sumo put it out on every platform going, including the DS. It was really anything but lazy or phoned in. It could have done with some extra capital to really make it the best it could be. You could really, really see the effort that went into it.

And then ASRT came around which, frankly, was absolutely fucking brilliant and it'll always bother me that that game will live in Mario Kart's shadow by sheer virtue of its genre. It was really something special. The roster took a bit of a hit in places, giving us rubbish like Ralph and Danica Patrick for some pretty weak and short-lived cross promotions (plus they quite detestably axed Big). Items were painfully generic in design too which made them uninteresting and unfitting from an aesthetic perspective, but I can easily look part that because of well balanced they were and what the brought to the table. And really that's where ASRT's big flaws end.

The driving was so much more refined than the original, and really doubled down on speed and drifting to make for an Arcade racer that didn't really feel anything like Mario Kart. It was truly its own beast. I get that some people didn't like the flying or boating sections, citing them as either too difficult, less refined or simply less fun than driving. I disagree with that vehemently. Aside from certain set-pieces being limited to the player in first place and those very close behind (especially regarding waves in the boating sections), I thought they were great additions. They were weaved in effortlessly with the track transformations, which were just so cool. Two laps around Ocean View as normal, before the start of the track decided to lower you into the water for a totally different final lap. Or Burning Depths where the track got progressively more flooded, and Dragon Canyon where bits of the track crumbled, forcing the race first into a river and then into the air above the river. It was soooooo good. Aside from a single cup of tracks returning from the first game, all of the levels were brand new. There was a great representation of SEGA IPs in them, without the recycled assets of the Sonic zones in the first and each was accompanied by a banging new remix from Richard Jacques.

TSR doesn't look as good as ASRT. It looks really good for what it is, don't get me wrong. But it's really lacking the wow-factor. There are pros and cons to the Sonic-only focus compared to the SEGA party we had before, and I'll just say that they could have easily made it a SEGA party again if that's what they wanted. The driving mechanics look like ASRT only further refined. Losing the flying and boating makes the game more focused and accessible, and probably wouldn't have been all too compatible with all the team -based mechanics they've created. And speaking of those, they seem to be pretty well thought out. From juggling items to help your teammates to chaining together all manner of different boost combos to propel each other forward, there appears to be a lot of depth to the system. It's not as simple as slapping racers into teams and totalling their points together. There's an utterly fantastic soundtrack for this game too (possibly one of the best in the entire Sonic history, imo).

But it's just... weak in areas it shouldn't be. I'm certain I read/heard somewhere that the game was only going to be 4 old tracks, and that the remaining 17 would be all new (can't find the source now though). If I'm right on that, the old tracks are Ocean View, Whale Lagoon, Lost Palace (literally all of Seaside Hill) and Bingo Party. It could be that any track based on a previously used zone is recycled though, which would be even worse and will bump the number of recycled tracks up to at least 6, maybe even 9. It's already a shame to see the same locations reused without almost half of them being lifted from older games. Although credit has to be given where it's due because it seems like Sumo has gone above and beyond to make the levels unique from each other; Rooftop Run has the city streets, a flying pathway in the sky and the haunted castle, for example. The roster is missing some characters who really should have been shoe-ins; 15 characters is a pretty small number and did anyone actually want Zavok? Just let him die, SEGA. He sucks. The Wisps all look functionally sound, but the game focusing on items brings it much closer to Mario Kart.

And the final part that I just will not let go is this:

jpg

This game has nothing to do with R. It looks a hell of a lot better than R (objectively speaking, because I love R and it'll always have a very special place in my heart). But R this game is not. In a series about characters who run fast and who get into races every now and then, R is notable for being the only on-foot racing game, instead of being based on cars or hoverboards. Sure, Rivals is a thing but that's a 2.5D platformer with a 1-on-1 racing gimmick tacked on. Sonic R has a legacy about it that this game is milking for no good reason. By all accounts, TSR is ASR3. All that SEGA needed to do was not try to call back to R with that logo. This is a driving game. It's totally different...

Rant over. I'm honestly really excited for TSR. It looks like it's going to be really fun. The main downside is that it's lacking in content, particularly original content. It can still be good despite that, and Sumo have a good track record. 

I definitely agree with most of your points and, just like you, I'm excited for TSR and it does look better than the original all star racing but it's still somewhat disappointing that they didn't take advantage of the potential a sonic only racer had. It just lacks those epic moments in Transformed that I haven't seen any track reproduce yet.

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Nobody mentioned this but this looks like a new Haunted Castle screenshot. Do you guys still think Pumpkin Hill is in the game or was that tease just a coincidence ? I don't see where it would fit unless the final area is actually a mash-up of different zones.

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I actually had a friend over to play both of the original All-Stars Racing games with me. We both came away from it agreeing that the first one was better. At least in terms of what we felt it did the best between the two games. I love them both, of course. I think they're both great and it's nice that Team Sonic Racing actually isn't taking a dump over their legacy like was originally thought to be the case upon first impression of the initial gameplay footage we saw. 

However, I did always just like how simple and fun the first one was compared to the second. It also had a bit more of what I appreciate about these kinds of games in them. Specifically, the most important thing to me, is the roster. The first game had, and still has, the best roster of all three of these titles. You've got all the expected ones and then you've got weird ones like the Bonanza Bros. and Zombio and Zombiko. I liked them a lot because of how strange and charming they were. It was a privilege playing as Opa Opa too. 

The second one's roster, specifically on console, really didn't endear me all that much. I actually didn't have much of a problem with Ralph or Danica Patrick. I like Ralph and I thought Danica Patrick was at least funny to see. The strange marketing push being so on display there tickled me a tad.Most of my problem came from all the unnecessary clones. All the cool, obscure characters were taken out so that characters like Gum, Mee Mee, Pudding, and Reala got in. They managed to a few interesting ones like Vyse, Gilius, and Joe Musashi but there being so many clones, on top of the fact that Big was taken out, on top of the fact that those marketing push characters were there to make it more glaring how strange the character selection was made it a very weird thing. 

Another thing that I found criminally bad about Transformed was the announcer! He was barely in the thing! I was shocked that there was an option to turn him down in the menu! He doesn't SPEAK except for when he has to call out the stages you select! What happened to all the cheesy shit he would say in the first game?! "I'VE GOT SWEAT IN PLACES THAT DON'T EVEN SWEAT!!" You can't do the announcer like that.

Then there's the music, which was great in Transformed... but again, I did honestly miss what the first game did where it just gave me a nice selection of tracks and I could switch between whichever ones I wanted and have that play in the level. They can do remixes if they want but removing that feature seemed like an odd step back considering it literally wouldn't have taken much to put it back in.

Then there's the game's difficulty and the manner in which you unlock things. I gotta admit, I straight up didn't like this. I think it might just be that I have more of a Smash Bros, party game mentality for these games rather than a competitive racer one. As such, all the extra hard missions and the stars you had to collect in order to unlock these characters just felt extraneous for no real reason. The missions where you have to drift and the ones where you've got to go through timed rings can go fuck themselves. It took longer than I would have liked to unlock Eggman and AGES. I did it, so I'm not bitter at the game or anything, but that's a mode that I know I won't be able to fully complete and that sours things a bit. I did vastly prefer the original game's system of "PLAY THE GAME... and that's it." You get SEGA Miles for playing the game and then you can cash those in for characters. I liked that better. 

Then there's the All-Star Moves. Those were WAY better in the first game. They felt way more distinct and unique. Whenever one went off it felt like a big deal. They weren't so overpowered that they'd completely overtake everything though. It was perfect. The fact that they were so nerfed in Transformed was a shame. I understand WHY they did it but I never played the game online so it was only a detriment for me. 

The items were a lot cooler and felt more impactful in the first one as well. I honestly can't really even remember the items in the second one. The first one, I can remember pretty much all of them. The traffic cone bombs, the star that turned the screen upside down, the rainbow that covered the screen in colors, the rolling blue bombs, the red rockets, the green boxing gloves, the air horns, and the speed shoes...!

Also, the design of the cars I again liked more in the first game. They took out a lot of what made the vehicles in the first one unique. Shadow rode in a tank in Transformed instead of his G.U.N bike. Eggman's awesome monster truck was replaced with a weird, little dinky red... tank? I dunno. The cars just weren't as cool. Certainly nothing like Opa Opa was there. 

The thing about Transformed that I liked more than the first one was the stages though. Goodness, what a massive overhaul for the better that was. They were a lot more varied due to there being no repeats. It was cool that you could do mirror versions of them as well. I remember the After Burner stage in particular being so full of fucking HYPE. When my action/adventure story-telling chills get going from simply going through a stage in a racing game, you know you've done something right. That music reaching its highest point the instant I take to the skies is something magical. The way all the laps in each stage change depending on the scenery was incredible too. Just magnificent.

The lines in Transformed were better from the characters too. I remember in the first All-Stars, there was a lot of awkward recycling of dialogue. Shadow, for instance, would start a stage by saying "WHO ARE YOU... and how do you know my name?????" which is an out of context line from either Shadow or Sonic 06. One of those. Now, if the announcer had said his name and that was Shadow's response it would have been funny. But since that doesn't happen it just made Shadow sound like a crazy person. 

Team Sonic Racing is bringing back the chatter but it's going to be from the characters this time. I do actually prefer that to the announcer despite how awesome the announcer is but if the writing doesn't turn out to be any fun than there'd probably be little point in the long run. It's doing the thing that the original game did by having three tracks based on a single location but instead it's making sure all of those locations look completely different from one another instead of variations of the same area. So that's neat. The roster sucks. 15 is way too small for a game like this. Maybe if it were Nickelodeon Racing or some other piece of shovelware like that, then sure. I don't find that acceptible here though, customization or not. 

Speaking of customization, that looks cool as hell. It's a feature that neither of the other two had. Looking forward to it. Also, this game HAS a story-mode. It won't be Sonic Riders level of storytelling but it's there. I probably shouldn't be taking it into too much consideration though. It's most likely not going to be ANYTHING remotely special. At all. But... it's there. I'm also liking the music a lot. These remixes all sound great. They all sound appropriate. I actually don't mind that I can't switch out songs here... but I'd welcome that back still.

So that's my two-cents. Well, considering the length of this post it's more like 50 cents but whatever.

By the way, on the topic of a racing game where the characters are on foot, I don't really care either way. If it happens, cool. If it doesn't, I'm fine sticking with the cars.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Most of my problem came from all the unnecessary clones. All the cool, obscure characters were taken out so that characters like Gum, Mee Mee, Pudding, and Reala got in. They managed to a few interesting ones like Vyse, Gilius, and Joe Musashi but there being so many clones, on top of the fact that Big was taken out, on top of the fact that those marketing push characters were there to make it more glaring how strange the character selection was made it a very weird thing.

Sumo themselves told us this isn't true. With the higher amount of work involved in creating three different vehicles for the cast, character slots had to be cut. The clones were actually a bonus that Sumo worked extra hours to complete. As much as I love Opa-Opa, it made more sense to prioritise evolving the gameplay over the roster, especially when most these franchises have a relatively small fanbase.

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On 4/20/2019 at 4:32 PM, Blue Blood said:

Sonic R has a legacy about it that this game is milking for no good reason. By all accounts, TSR is ASR3. All that SEGA needed to do was not try to call back to R with that logo. This is a driving game. It's totally different...

The game is hardly milking it, it's only got the R in the logo as a cute call back. There's literally no other references to Sonic R at all in the game.

The only reason this became a problem was because the marketing team idiotically revealed the game with the letter R. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the game itself and probably had nothing to do with the game's designers either.

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10 hours ago, Pawn said:

Sumo themselves told us this isn't true. With the higher amount of work involved in creating three different vehicles for the cast, character slots had to be cut. The clones were actually a bonus that Sumo worked extra hours to complete. As much as I love Opa-Opa, it made more sense to prioritise evolving the gameplay over the roster, especially when most these franchises have a relatively small fanbase.

Whoops. Yes, I'm well aware that a lot of what was done was done out of necessity and I tried to make mention of that when I could recall it. Even though I tried to choose my words carefully something like that still slipped through. Oh well.

Either way, it doesn't change how I feel about the roster or the game but thanks for clarifying that.

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1 hour ago, JosepHenry said:

http://sonicjpnews.blogspot.com/2019/04/ndws-interview-to-tsr-teams-1-team-sonic.html?m=1

I can't believe nobody talked about this yet. This is super charming!

Oh neat. They actually did the "Interview the characters" idea I had. Though not in video form but that was a bit of a stretch anyway.

But yeah, that's charming. It's telling that they do suddenly recall certain relationships between the characters when extra material outside of the games is made. 

Tails: Huh? Knuckles, don't you always care about what Team Dark is doing? The team Rouge is in?
Knuckles: Sh-shut up! I never cared about them, ever! *sweats*
Tails: Oh, is that so? Sorry. I'm a little worried about Amy's team. We kind of dragged them into the race, so...

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1 hour ago, JosepHenry said:

http://sonicjpnews.blogspot.com/2019/04/ndws-interview-to-tsr-teams-1-team-sonic.html?m=1

I can't believe nobody talked about this yet. This is super charming!

Ooh, they're doing interviews for each team weekly!

It'd be cool if they could get the voice actors to do some of these like they did for Forces.

 

Aaaaand another reason to wish more of the cast was in this.

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16 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Oh neat. They actually did the "Interview the characters" idea I had. Though not in video form but that was a bit of a stretch anyway.

But yeah, that's charming. It's telling that they do suddenly recall certain relationships between the characters when extra material outside of the games is made. 

 

If the story its telling is " That the people writing this content care more about the characters and why people like them more than a lot of the folks working on the games " then yes it is telling , though it isn't new. To be fair to the game though , this game is probably gonna indulge , lotta dialog apparently. It would be a hell of a swing and a miss if its all was kinda nothing.

 

 

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4 hours ago, StellarBlur said:

Looks like the main menu ? I don't know where the image was taken but I saw it on my social media. It seems legit and looks pretty cool.

With all the promotional material next to it, maybe it was some kind of convention? 

Anyway since I don't really post here I figure I'll get at least some of my thoughts out about this game right now. Biggest disappointment for me so far is the roster, or lack thereof. I'm really holding out for (MAYBE free?) DLC akin to what Mario Tennis Aces or Kirby Star Allies did if that's what needed, but 15 is such an abysmal number when the Sonic franchise has so many characters. No Babylon Rogues, Cream and 2/3 of Team Chaotix missing are all rather weird. Wish they'd stop trying to force Zavok on us... Sochi Olympics, Speed Battle, Forces and now this... which is especially weird considering the rest of the Deadly Six haven't shown up since Lost World bar Zazz who was also in the Olympics game. Disappointed with the returning tracks we've seen so far. Just like others I'm holding out for Galactic Parade to return in some form. I hope they get creative with the other zones. Please god no more Green Hill or Chemical Plant. Give us stuff we haven't seen in years like a Green Jungle or Kingdom Valley track. Also the art for this game weirdly reminds me of the Shadow the Hedgehog renders. Is that just me? Very similar lighting/shading. For example... Tails render from TSR vs Tails render from ShTH. Compare to renders for, say, Generations where the shadows are a lot more subtler.

Still somewhat sceptical of the whole 'team' mechanic but I guess we'll see when the game comes out.

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Just now, DabigRG said:

...I don't get it.

I wanted to get the PC version. This is really annoying to me but I guess I'll settle for PS4 or maybe Switch if it's 60fps (unlikely).

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