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Team Sonic Racing - Upcoming Sonic Racing Game

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3 hours ago, Detective Kaito said:

Looks like Knuckles' new voice is here to stay, and my god does it sound horrible.

I hope they have an option for Japanese audio.

It sounds like it is Travis Willingham, doing a voice similar to the one in Forces.

And yes, I do not like that being a consistent change. 

 

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What Thigolf said, it's a budget thing, because the gameplay is really fun honestly, it's the content that is my problem with the game. Also lazy decisions, I would have preferred 4 more original tracks over 9 old. Also the roster, how is it possible a 12 player racer only has 15 characters? Just ridiculous. Sorry but no, Transformed also was 40 dollars if I remember correctly, and offered more.

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2 hours ago, Thigolf said:

A 57:43 ratio really isn't that much more impressive than a 50:50 one, especially considering that the latter has still 4 more original tracks than the former despite it. 

People basically have said everything about what MK does differently compared to TSR, but I think it bears repeating: Mario Kart waited with bringing basically anything back until they had dozens and dozens of different tracks, so that even after multiple games bringing back retro courses, they would still have a pretty big pool to pick from, and even if there's overlap, the generational leaps make it so that even if a track was already remastered on, say, a Gamecube, on a Wii U, it would again look fresh. With TSR, it's one generational leap. Ocean View barely looks prettier than on its predecessor (or not at all, if you compare it to PC) and while it's certainly noticable on the ASR tracks, it's obviously not as day and night as, say, a 2D SNES or lowpoly 3D N64 or DS track suddenly making the jump to current gen hardware. And, because Sonic had to share the game with other franchises before, has an incredibly limited, samey pool of tracks to choose from, so instead of "Oh, they brought this track from 'one of 7 games' back!", it's "Oh, they brought the whole batch from 'one of two games'. It just doesn't have close to the same appeal the returning courses in MK have.

Also, especially in the later games, MK incorporates new gimmicks and mechanics into the tracks. Even the simple trick mechanic they added in Wii adds quite a bit to the tracks if used properly, but the big jump happened in MK7 and onwards: With the gliding and underwater driving in 7 and the Anti gravity in 8 get seamlessly integrated in old tracks that generally also get heavily redesigned. Suddenly, in Dino Dino Jungle, there's a Gliding pad that lets you fly an alternate route while dodging the giant Dinosaur, Daisy's Cruiser has part of the ship that was dry before flooded now and has clamps in them that you can do trick jumps over if you time it properly, Toad's Turnpike lets you drive on walls now and has cars with ramps on top that you can do tricks on or glide off - they clearly put much thought into making them fresh. In TSR, it just seems like it's just a coat of paint. A gorgeous one, no doubt, but still, not particularly interesting, in my eyes. The Team mechanics will clearly change your thinking on these tracks in some way, but I don't think it's gonna be that significant. Other than that, I can't think of much that could be possibly different. Maybe a Power character can drive through certain obstacles now? Doesn't seem that exciting. The Technique characters can drive through some of the grass on Ocean View now since the whole hover mechanic was, as far as I know, not a thing in ASRT, so that's a thing that can happen now, I guess? And Speed Characters just get the usual old fare without any changes, I guess. The retro tracks in ASRT had a similar issue of being just themselves again', but those were only 4 tracks, so it wasn't as apparent as it is in TSR.

But putting all the above aside, even if Sumo brought everything back without any changes in TSR, it honestly wouldn't be a problem at all if enough new stuff was there. But the biggest problem compared to MK is that, instead of more, everything here just feels less compared to its predecessor. We got less characters, which sucks, but I'd manage if the track variety was there. But it isn't. ASR had 24 original tracks, but they borrowed heavily from eachother, which dampened the whole thing. Then ASRT came along and wiped the floor - only 17 new tracks, sure, but each track was completely distinct from each other and felt super fresh, but not only that, pretty much every track in the game transformed in some way over the course of the race, sometimes giving you new track layouts and basically multiplying the track count by quite a bit. They clearly went in with a quality over quantity approach in ASRT and I think a lot of people, myself included, appreciated that a lot. It's kinda like how, again, Mario Kart went, to be honest: The first game on the SNES had 20 tracks, but they were all part of like 5 terrains and it wasn't really varied at all, but when the sequel came along on the N64, the level number went down, but everything was unique with barely any overlap and no reused locations. Again, Quality over quantity.

But where Mario Kart basically stayed at 16 new tracks over the course of its series and then added the retro cups to give people more content on top of it down the line, TSR just is...less. Instead of 17 new tracks, suddenly, there is 12, with Planet Wisp even kind of bringing back the "Three in a samey locale" problem that the first game had (though the rest of the new content in the game pretty much avoids it so I'm not gonna harp on it). Instead of having multiple track layouts that switch in over the course of the different laps, we're back to static tracks that stay the same throughout. And the rest of the track amount that had new stuff before just gets filled up with old stuff. It's just a step back in every way. Less variety, less new stuff, less stuff in general. And the fact that the difference between the retro tracks, strictly visually speaking basically amounts to "Seaside Hill" " Seaside Hill with less beach and more ruins" and "Seaside Hill with fewer ruins and more jungle", it's just boring to look at and really disappointing.

And yes, I don't think much, if anything, of this is Sumo's fault, but a problem of really limited budget, so I'm not blaming them. And yes, technically, the price is lower to make up for its shortcomings. But for me, personally, there is nothing interesting, even for the cheaper price, since the predecessor does, in my eyes, so much a lot better. I honestly would've been more interested in the game if it was more expensive, but gave me a lot more new, exciting stuff, and just stuff in general. Now, it's pretty much just a lesser version of a thing I already have. The whole base game of TSR seems incredibly solid and fun, the soundtrack is amazing, having a Story is neat, and the customization looks great and heck, the Teamwork aspect also seems fun, but what should be the meat and potatoes of a (kart) racing game, the roster and the tracks, just seem lacking. And that's a shame, really.

I guess it's because the earlier games aren't available on Switch, though. The premise of a mobile version means I can see them expanding at least the mobile version with much-needed extra content (kinda like what NetherRealm Studios does with their mobile games), perhaps via cloning animations ala ASRT for the remaining characters.

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2 hours ago, Thigolf said:

A 57:43 ratio really isn't that much more impressive than a 50:50 one, especially considering that the latter has still 4 more original tracks than the former despite it. 

You’re right, which is why it is 70:30 actually. 

21 Tracks, 12 original, 5 seen & confirmed are returning and the other 4 remain to be seen but likely are returning.

But yeah, it’s still a shame there wasn’t more original tracks i’ll admit. As JezMM mentions - that they are grouped together in each Zone 3 times over unfortunately highlights the reuse of these more. So it’s a shame there wasn’t a bit more creativity in their retooling - like, for example if they somehow injected one retro track to each Zone instead. I think would have gone over a bit better.

EDIT: Ignore me, my maths is waaaay of kilter today haha! Yeah... the ratio actually doesnt seem so great now with that knowledge.

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1 hour ago, Jack the Shadow said:

What Thigolf said, it's a budget thing, because the gameplay is really fun honestly, it's the content that is my problem with the game. Also lazy decisions, I would have preferred 4 more original tracks over 9 old. Also the roster, how is it possible a 12 player racer only has 15 characters? Just ridiculous. Sorry but no, Transformed also was 40 dollars if I remember correctly, and offered more.

Transformed was definitely worth full price tho. This isn't.

Now, I'm hoping for DLC to fill the tremendous gaps in the track roster. The Ark and Speed Highway or Twinkle Park should have been shoe-ins to represent SA1 and SA2. Especially the Ark, it's easy to make a three tracks themed zone with the Ark. God knows Heroes doesn't need more representation even if Grand Metropolis and Hang Castle are awesome. Eggmanland out of Unleashed would also make nice DLC. 

If DLC is just one zone (if it happens), it should be in order of priority :

 
1. The ARK (because it's iconic and has potential for a lot of variety and is a much needed space track)
2. Twinkle Park (SA1 representation) or Speed Highway (if Twinkle Park is too niche and we don't' have much city representation)
3. Unleashed or Colors stuff
 
Alternatively, give us deep cut stuff like Night Palace to represent the storybook games or stuff from Rush Adventure or something.
 
What tracks would you feel are good for DLC (if we get DLC) ?

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I feel like this game will sell well, also DLC might be a thing for this game, like in the Stadium interview they played with the thought of DLC and Cream, so I feel like, they could add Cream, Espio and Charmy as separate characters (not as a team), that would be really awesome, so you could have Cream back to Team Rose and Team Chaotix again.

Now stages... I dunno, I feel like is too much work to do completely new stages. Characters seem like a given but I cannot see new stages other than ports of ASR and ASRT. I guess I would be down for Santuary Falls, Galatic Parade and Egg Hangar. (If it is not the last TSR stage)

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For easy DLC they could give us packs of 3 stages.

Galactic Parade  and Sky Sanctuary from Transformed along with a Chemical Plant inspired level should be an easy thing for them to make.

then a couple more packs of 3 stages, entirely new ones.

I’d like to see

Mushroom Hill from Sonic 3 as a proper forest level with elements from other games. Could be autumn themed 

Radiant Emerald from Sonic R: it would be so nice to see this stage return

Windmill Isle from Unleashed

Aquarium Park from Colors: an oriental themed stage that could include some chun an throwbacks too

*the futuristic City from Forces, maybe one of the few good looking stages in that game

 

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1 hour ago, Jack the Shadow said:

 Also the roster, how is it possible a 12 player racer only has 15 characters? Just ridiculous. 

Oh shoot, really? 

Dang.

15 minutes ago, JosepHenry said:

I feel like this game will sell well, also DLC might be a thing for this game, like in the Stadium interview they played with the thought of DLC and Cream, so I feel like, they could add Cream, Espio and Charmy as separate characters (not as a team), that would be really awesome, so you could have Cream back to Team Rose and Team Chaotix again.

Oh, did they? Well, at least they gave it some thought.

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9 minutes ago, JezMM said:

If they can't even afford to make more than 4 new zones in the base game, hoping for DLC with each track having a unique theme is an utter pipe dream.

Well in the original ASR, egg hangar was a single track dlc so I guess we could get extra tracks. You also have to consider that the base game has 7 zones and 12 characters for 40$ but a DLC might have 3 characters and 1 zone for 10$ so the return is way higher on DLC.

17 minutes ago, JosepHenry said:

I feel like this game will sell well, also DLC might be a thing for this game, like in the Stadium interview they played with the thought of DLC and Cream, so I feel like, they could add Cream, Espio and Charmy as separate characters (not as a team), that would be really awesome, so you could have Cream back to Team Rose and Team Chaotix again.

Now stages... I dunno, I feel like is too much work to do completely new stages. Characters seem like a given but I cannot see new stages other than ports of ASR and ASRT. I guess I would be down for Santuary Falls, Galatic Parade and Egg Hangar. (If it is not the last TSR stage)

Would they really dare sell us old zones as DLC ? That'd be the ultimate bummer honestly.

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7 minutes ago, StellarBlur said:

Well in the original ASR, egg hangar was a single track dlc so I guess we could get extra tracks. You also have to consider that the base game has 7 zones and 12 characters for 40$ but a DLC might have 3 characters and 1 zone for 10$ so the return is way higher on DLC.

This is true, but it is a risk factor for the company still.  The only people who will buy the DLC are those who have bought the game, so that's already a small audience, and of course, not every player will buy the DLC.  For what it's worth, I never bought ASR's DLC, because the price was just way too high for a single track and a character I won't play as because I don't personally care about Metal Sonic.

Turned out to be the right decision thankfully since I got to play it in ASRT anyway.

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1 hour ago, Son-icka said:

21 Tracks, 12 original, 5 seen & confirmed are returning and the other 4 remain to be seen but likely are returning.

The TSS Preview outright states that there will be 9 tracks returning, sadly. 

Regarding DLC, I wouldn't count on it. Other than Day One DLC, Sonic, Spinoff or Main game, hasn't really gotten much at all after Unleashed. ASRT got a couple characters solely for the PC version, and yes, ASR got Egg Hangar, but that one came so close to launch that it might as well have been Day One DLC. Mania is the only exception, but I think that's solely because they didn't want to stick a 20 Dollar game on the shelves with a 30 dollar price tag.

Maybe we'll get some character DLC or something in the vain of ASR with a pack containing a character and a single track, but again, looking at Sonic's recent track record in terms of DLC, I won't get my hopes up.

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5 minutes ago, JezMM said:

This is true, but it is a risk factor for the company still.  The only people who will buy the DLC are those who have bought the game, so that's already a small audience, and of course, not every player will buy the DLC.  For what it's worth, I never bought ASR's DLC, because the price was just way too high for a single track and a character I won't play as because I don't personally care about Metal Sonic.

Turned out to be the right decision thankfully since I got to play it in ASRT anyway.

Fair enough. I wonder why Sega has rarely capitalized on the opportunity to make DLC for Sonic games.

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20 minutes ago, Jack the Shadow said:

Where did you guys read that Final Fortress consists in all ASR tracks? I mean, it's likely but I haven't seen it confirmed. This game is just constipated...

We know that Final Fortress has Dark Arsenal (from a screenshot) and Thunder Deck (from footage). It's likely that Egg Hangar is the last track of that zone. It wouldn't make sense to have Turbine Loop. Ironically, it would probably be more work to remake Turbine Loop then Egg Hangar.

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1 hour ago, Thigolf said:

Regarding DLC, I wouldn't count on it. Other than Day One DLC, Sonic, Spinoff or Main game, hasn't really gotten much at all after Unleashed. ASRT got a couple characters solely for the PC version, and yes, ASR got Egg Hangar, but that one came so close to launch that it might as well have been Day One DLC. Mania is the only exception, but I think that's solely because they didn't want to stick a 20 Dollar game on the shelves with a 30 dollar price tag.

Don't forget Lost World. It got a bunch of content that wasn't day one DLC. It had the Yoshi and Zelda packs. I think the Nights stuff got repurposed as DLC later on too.

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31 minutes ago, StellarBlur said:

We know that Final Fortress has Dark Arsenal (from a screenshot) and Thunder Deck (from footage). It's likely that Egg Hangar is the last track of that zone. It wouldn't make sense to have Turbine Loop. Ironically, it would probably be more work to remake Turbine Loop then Egg Hangar.

How so?  Death Egg uses 100% different assets to Turbine Loop, which uses Final Fortress stuff like, well, the other Final Fortress tracks.

I'd definitely rather have Egg Hangar for variety, but yeah.

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I dunno if you guys should already be prediticting the sales of this game... The sales feel kinda bleak because even Forces with it's awful lack of marketing managed to sell well...

I dunno, they already played with the thought of DLC, so I feel like is kind of a given, if they wanna keep this track of making quality stuff after the Mania effect, they better bring Cream and the rest of the Chaotix back lol

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2 minutes ago, JezMM said:

How so?  Death Egg uses 100% different assets to Turbine Loop, which uses Final Fortress stuff like, well, the other Final Fortress tracks.

I'd definitely rather have Egg Hangar for variety, but yeah.

They can take it from Transformed and update the lighting. The PC version of transformed has assets that are good enough as is. But, you might be right and I might be talking out of my ass.

Also, it's weird that they'd have Thunder Deck as the first track of Final Fortress and have them finish with Turbine Loop or Dark Arsenal ? Nah.

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2 minutes ago, StellarBlur said:

They can take it from Transformed and update the lighting. The PC version of transformed has assets that are good enough as is. But, you might be right and I might be talking out of my ass.

Also, it's weird that they'd have Thunder Deck as the first track of Final Fortress and have them finish with Turbine Loop or Dark Arsenal ? Nah.

Yeah I guess that's true that if porting is what makes it easy rather than the re-use of graphics, there's no reason not to mix it up a bit.  Surely we don't know what order the tracks come in yet though right?  We just saw Thunder Deck first.

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25 minutes ago, JezMM said:

Yeah I guess that's true that if porting is what makes it easy rather than the re-use of graphics, there's no reason not to mix it up a bit.  Surely we don't know what order the tracks come in yet though right?  We just saw Thunder Deck first.

We had this screenshot for the track select:

image.thumb.png.3cb0996745d538f0d20825f61c30a6fe.png

I'd assume the picture shows the first track. Hidden Volcano only shows because he's selecting it. In another picture, Ice Mountain in shown there.

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My assumption would be that if there is any DLC, it would be far more likely to see DLC characters than tracks, purely because I would guess it requires less time and resources to make new racers than race tracks. But really, I doubt we'll see much. I just hope if they do new characters, it is a new team of 3, even if they are sold seperately. It's irrational but it would bug me if they added 1 DLC character who didn't have a team to fit into.

Personally if we are throwing out preferances, I would nominate the Babylon Rogues, because I think they were literally made for this kind of game. I mean, in Sonic Riders, you had the three types, each Rogue a member of each type, and the Rogues basically being defined as Sonic's team racing rivals. Not to mention I doubt we'll ever really see the Rogues ever again outside of stuff like Olympic games and I doubt they'll ever show up in any mainline game, so I think it makes sense for them to be back for TSR.

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