Sonic Mania Plus: New and Updated Moveset Speculation

[Sonictrainer]

(Textless Variant of the canceled Archie Comic STH#294)

On Takashi Iizuka’s birthday, it was announced that 2 Genesis Era characters would be added to the roster in the Remaster/DLC Sonic Mania Plus. The first character is Mighty the Armadillo, who hasn’t been a playable character since Knuckles Chaotix in 1995, and the second is Ray the Flying Squirrel, who hasn’t been a playable character since Sonic Arcade in 1993. It was also confirmed that their movesets would be brand new, to destroy the notion that they will not be reskins like they originally were in Sonic Arcade. So far, I’ve already seen and read a number of ideas for Mighty and Ray as well as revisions and unused content for Sonic, Tails, & Knuckles. Before we get the next trailer or screenshot revealing what Mighty and Ray can do, let’s try to predict what skills they’ll have in their arsenal.

Notes:

• There will be some references to other Sonic media outside of the games. However, Sonic Mania already does this, so it shouldn’t be much of a surprise.
• For my ideas involving Mighty and Ray, I’m assuming that they will be able to Spin Jump, Roll, and Spin Dash like Sonic, Tails, & Knuckles. If you have an idea for a play style that’s completely different from this, be sure to share and clarify.
• Saying ideas won’t work with the current Level design is debatable, since it’s been confirmed Encore Mode is supposedly changing up the Zones in the game.
• It wasn’t confirmed whether or not Mighty and Ray can also go Super after collecting all 7 Chaos Emeralds
• If you have an awesome idea that originates from a Sonic Fan Game, you’re welcome to share it
• In this topic, I only wanted to talk about possible gameplay styles for Mighty and Ray and possible changes to Classic Sonic, Classic Tails, & Classic Knuckles. So besides comparing and contrasting skills from other characters in past games, these are the only five characters I want to focus on in this topic.

 

Sonic

Signature Abilities

• Drop Dash: Allows Sonic to rev Spin Dash after Spin Jumping or rolling into the air
• Insta-Shield (was originally unlockable and restricted to No Save Mode): Allows Sonic to deflect projectiles and increases Sonic’s Spin Jump radius while also having a rebound effect
• Super-Peelout (was originally unlockable and restricted to No Save Mode): Allows Sonic to rev up on the ground without crouching (I’m not sure if this is a better alternative to Spin Dashing or Drop Dashing)
• Fireball Spin Dash (with Fire Shield): Allows Sonic to destroy breakable walls that only Classic Knuckles can break
• Bounce Jump (with Bubble Shield): Allows Sonic to reach higher areas
• Double Jump (with Lightning Shield): Allows Sonic to reach higher areas

Change and Update Ideas

The only thing I can think of is instead of is allowing Sonic to have either 2 or all 3 of his customizable moves available at the same time instead of restricting them to No Save Mode.

 

 

Tails

Signature Abilities

• Fly: Tails can fly in the sky for a specific amount of time
• Swim: Tails can swim underwater for a specific amount of time

Change and Update Ideas

-I sort of want Tails to get some of his exclusive power-ups from Sonic Chaos, Sonic Triple Trouble, and Tails Adventure, like the Sea Fox

-I’m also in the camp of people that want Tails’ unused animation of drying himself off with his tails after arriving in the Chemical Plant Zone

 

 

Knuckles

Signature Abilities

• Glide: Knuckles can glide to cross over gaps, spikes, and bottomless pits
• Wall Climb: Allows Knuckles to climb up the sides of walls
• Wallbreaker (Knock, knock, it’s Knuckles): During certain Acts, there are breakable walls and material that only Knuckles can destroy…just by walking or gliding into them instead of just rolling into them.
• Shortest Jump: Out of the original Trio, Knuckles still has the shortest jump height, giving him a harder time against Badniks and Bosses on the ceiling or that are airborne out of his reach

Change and Update Ideas

I can’t think of anything…

 

 

Mighty

Personality Traits:

I think he should keep the traveling Martial Pacifist persona described in the Japanese Manual for Knuckles Chaotix

Also, I think he should have his super strength as shown in the Archie Comics (Not a good idea to make him angry)

 

Signature Abilities

Wall Jump (Knuckles Chaotix): Unlike Modern Sonic’s Wall Jump, which has him bounce from wall to wall diagonally to reach higher areas, Mighty travels vertically

Change and Update Ideas

• Wallbreaker: Like Knuckles, I believe Mighty will be able knock down all breakable walls just by walking into them. This will allow Mighty to take paths Sonic, Tails, and Ray cannot reach normally.
• Hercules Muscles (Sonic Generations): Mighty would have the easiest time and be the fastest at pushing objects (although I don’t remember if there’s an Zone where characters have to push anything in Mania).
• Icebreaker: Mighty may also be able to easily break down the Icy version of objects that appear in Press Garden Zone Act 2, without needing to become frozen or use a Flame Shield.

• Protective Shell: When Mighty crouches down, his hard shell will protect him from certain Badnik attacks and projectiles. Wouldn’t work against certain hazards, though, like giant spike balls for example.
• Power Stomp (Sonic Generations): This allows Mighty to reach the ground faster, destroy nearby grounded enemies, and even destroy specific platforms, giving him access to exclusive routes
• Heaviest Character: To balance out his speed and power, he’s heavier than everyone else and doesn’t stay in the air as long

 

Ray

Unlike the other characters, Ray will need a brand-new set of sprites and animations, to go with his new shoes, since he never appeared in a 2D game until now.

Fast Fact: The skin like parachute flaps flying squirrels have are called patagium.

Personality Traits:

I’m not sure how I’d want Ray to act. In his original game, he’s the comic relief and in the Archie Comics, he’s loyal and timid…

Change and Update Ideas

• Unique Spin Jump: Like Tails, Ray’s tail will be visible as he’s spinning
• Updraft Glide (Similar to Cape Mario or Flying Squirrel Mario): While Ray would be able to glide, he would also be able to control his height by diving down and pulling up to go higher, or by flapping his patagium like a bird. He could also do land on top of certain Badniks and still perform a Badnik Bounce using this method, allowing him to shoot into the air and stay airborne. Of course, it would take a skilled player to master this and avoid crashing into Badniks and hazards and landing on walls.
• Wall Climb: I think Ray should be able to climb walls like Knuckles
• Float (Knuckles’ ability to tread water in Sonic Advance/Big’s Life Belt from Sonic Adventure): Due to his patagium, I feel like Ray could have an option of floating on top of the surface of water. He could also have the best swimming skills out of the 5.

 

 

Discussion Questions:

1.     Are there any moves, animations, or other changes you want Sonic, Tails, & Knuckles to have in Sonic Mania Plus?

2.     Are there any personality traits, moves, animations, story elements, or other updates you want Mighty and Ray to have in Sonic Mania Plus?

3.     Should Mighty & Ray have the option to team up like Sonic & Tails? Should the Partner System get updated in general?

4.     Now that there are 5 characters, which HBH would be the perfect rival for each hero?

5.     Now that there are 5 characters, which Zone would be the easiest or hardest to travel through for each hero?

[Multikaris]

Some of the characters could get secret extra moves based on Advance, Game Gear games, etc. 

 

For example, Sonic could have his Humming Top after being launched from a spring, or maybe an alternate Triple Trouble-styled peel-out. Knuckles could gain his Advance water abilities. And, if Tails gets exclusive pickups, why shouldn’t at least some of the others? Sonic’s Spring Shoes from Chaos, the Blast Shield from 3D Blast (with Homing Attack and maybe even the Boost available),  etc. 

Sonic could also get a Homing Attack unlockable, reflecting his growth in Generations. Perhaps with a Blast Shield it becomes 06’s Homing Smash? 

Multiplayer could have SA2-style Specials, like maybe the ones from the Rivals series, the Spike Slash from the unmade Sonic-16, Tails’s Flicky brigade, etc. 

For more little animations, i’d like to see Knuckles shift through his various idle animations through the years, like Advance, Battle, etc. Mighty and Ray could freeze with the animations of Advance-era Sonic and Tails when they were frozen. 

Mighty should take cues from S3K Sonic to differentiate his graphics from his predecessor.

[E-122-Psi]

I get the feeling the original trio will mostly remain as is from the original Sonic Mania. I mean Sonic already has enough moves they had to add a customise option for all of them.

Mighty will likely have wall jump from Chaotix and maybe some form of strength based move. Him breaking through walls by default like Knux might work.

Ray will likely have something connected to his species, though differentiated from Knuckles' gliding. Maybe it could work like S2 8 bit's glider, as unlikely as that is to be popular.

[Jar Jar Analysis 1138]

Mighty needs an air dash if I’m to being honest. This will at least help with his slow nature in the game.

 

If they had far more time on Mania+, I would say a revision on the OG3 could be possible by giving them their Advance counterpart mechanics. Knuckles specifically could use a wall-spindash to clean him up a bit, as with Sonic...Gotta give him the drop dash. 

[Razule]

Good ideas, but I think you effectively made Mighty and Ray superior fusions of the trio.

[Eurisko]

When is this up for Pre-Order? Didn't Jasmin at the SXSW panel say it was going to be up last Monday? I can't find one, I am in the UK though.

EDIT: When I say I can't find one I actually mean I can't find one anywhere else than GAME. I won't Pre-Order a thing from those people. They'd put a dead cat up for pre-order if they thought people would buy it. You could walk past one of those stores and whisper a game and they'd take orders. 

I don't like GAME.

[Multikaris]

Ray should be completely unable to break walls even when rolling, to give him a disadvantage compared to the others. Maybe only with a specific elemental shield he can break them? Maybe the Bubble shield to erode rock walls and wash them away? And, if Sonic/Tails Bear the shield, should they be able to melt away Knuckles and Mighty walls (which Ray can’t do period)?

[spd12]

Those are fun, but complicated ideas. I imagine Mighty and Ray will be kept reasonably simple, like how Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles are.

I'll toss my own ideas for sake of discussion.

MIGHTY - Gets the Insta-Shield, with a twist: if he hits a 'damage' surface (spikes) when doing this, he gets a big bounce or push, encouraging the player to master the risky timing for fun movement boosts the others can't get. I'd give him lesser agility (slower acceleration or maybe a less-effective spin dash) as a counterbalance, as to encourage players to master and seek out boosts from spikes and other damaging surfaces. (Imagine him skipping across Lava Reef's lava lakes!) While he did have the super fast wall kick climb in Chaotix, I think that might be left out as to better differentiate him from Knuckles (native climbing) and Tails (superior vertical ability from anywhere) alike. I wouldn't give him a diminished jump height, as that would lock him to Knuckles routes and he wouldn't have the same navigational abilities he does. (Also, naturally, he doesn't get to access the elemental shield extra actions, because otherwise it'd lock him out of Insta-Shielding off things.)

RAY - I'd build on how he handles in SegaSoinc the Hedgehog, his only playable appearance prior. Despite what I said earlier, I wouldn't give him the Peel-Out. I envision him as the Sonic equivalent of Luigi and Peach. When he runs off ledges, he 'floats' at the same angle and momentum he was going for a short time (unless he rolls off of it). During this time, he can jump out of it, or attempt to turn around (in mid-air!) to halt his momentum some before attempting this. This lets him line up jumps easier without losing momentum, disregard smaller jumps between platforms at the same elevation, or maybe save himself more readily from falling into pits. The 'Luigi' aspect is that his traction is terrible and he should feel a bit fidgety - his counterbalance would be that it's tougher to do slight movements with him. This would feel very in-line with how slippery the trackball felt, and also how the game would give you a chance to turn around off of ledges before formally falling. If the Super Peel-Out were to be given to him, I'd do so as a *downside* - it'd replace the spin dash, and thus he'd lack the speedy auto-roll. The player would need to manually enter it once in motion.

That's how I'd do these two up. Honestly I really hope Mighty plays something like the above, I'd love to be able to bounce off all the spikes everywhere.

[Sonictrainer]

5 hours ago, Razule said:

Good ideas, but I think you effectively made Mighty and Ray superior fusions of the trio.

Mighty still can't fly and his heavier weight would be a challenge in some cases.

Tails would still have better mobility than Ray, especially in areas that are tight spaces.

[Salamander]

I definitely think the better approach is to keep each character very simple in terms of how they control and what they can do, and let the complexity be born from the interactions with stage gimmicks and similar elements.  Knuckles's ability to break walls, for instance, isn't really an ability or a move in the conventional sense; it's a purely passive effect.

Having the Insta-Shield and the Drop Dash simultaneously doesn't seem unreasonable, in that the Drop Dash could probably be assigned to down instead of jump; or even the game could register Insta-Shield from a tap and Drop Dash from a hold.  But on reflection, what I might do is bring back the classic Blue Shield (and maybe shift it to the modern green colour to help distinguish it) and have the Insta-Shield also be a property of that, to give it a unique action like the other elemental shields.  Call it the Wind Shield or something.  Edit: Guess if I'm putting it on-par with the other elemental shields, it should have a passive ability like the fire, electricity, and water resistance of the other three.  Hmm...  Takes two hits to dispel instead of one?  And changes colour after one hit, so you can use both the blue and the green colouration.

For Mighty, the idea of having him curl up into a ball on a down-press and possible be immune to spikes when curling sounds like a great use of his species, so I'm on-board for that; it's easy to see how that would give him unique routes, and possibly also make him a kind of easy-mode character.  I gather he has a wall-jump in Chaotix, so for consistency's sake it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring that in.  I wouldn't want to load too much onto the character, but as I've said elsewhere, I like the idea of him being bouncy, as if with a permanent Bubble Shield.

For Ray, some kind of float or glide that's less sophisticated than Tails's flight but more sophisticated than Knuckles's glide works well with his species; I'd also consider giving him wall-cling without wall-climb, but I'm not sure if that would actually be terribly useful.  I don't necessarily know how you could give him unique routes, but if his abilities are similar to both Tails's and Knuckles's, you could always have Tails routes branching off Knuckles routes and vice-versa which would be de facto Ray routes.

[molul]

27 minutes ago, FFWF said:

Having the Insta-Shield and the Drop Dash simultaneously doesn't seem unreasonable, in that the Drop Dash could probably be assigned to down instead of jump; or even the game could register Insta-Shield from a tap and Drop Dash from a hold.

To me, having drop dash always accessible makes more sense than current situation. This move should be available for any character, always. Like the spin dash.

I mean, I have no problem with it being only Sonic's and only when no elemental shield is in use, but I think it could be improved by extending it to all characters and with any shield. It's like blue spheres: I'm glad it was in Mania, but it doesn't qualify as a bonus stage.

[Indigo Rush]

There's an option to activate the drop-dash and the insta-shield simultaneously in the modloader for the PC version, and as far as I'm concerned it's the definitive way to play. Tap for an insta-shield, tap and hold for a drop-dash. Easy as pie.

If anything, it's a little OP, which is probably why it wasn't the default setup.

[molul]

10 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

There's an option to activate the drop-dash and the insta-shield simultaneously in the modloader for the PC version, and as far as I'm concerned it's the definitive way to play. Tap for an insta-shield, tap and hold for a drop-dash. Easy as pie.

If anything, it's a little OP, which is probably why it wasn't the default setup.

I didn't know that. Thank you! I'll given it a try tomorrow

[Sonictrainer]

On 3/27/2018 at 2:07 PM, Sonictrainer said:

Icebreaker: Mighty may also be able to easily break down the Icy version of objects that appear in Press Garden Zone Act 2, without needing to become frozen or use a Flame Shield.

• Protective Shell: When Mighty crouches down, his hard shell will protect him from certain Badnik attacks and projectiles. Wouldn’t work against certain hazards, though, like giant spike balls for example.
• Power Stomp (Sonic Generations): This allows Mighty to reach the ground faster, destroy nearby grounded enemies, and even destroy specific platforms, giving him access to exclusive routes
• Heaviest Character: To balance out his speed and power, he’s heavier than everyone else and doesn’t stay in the air as long

 

Called it

Although I am still curious if Mighty can break through walls like Knuckles, whether Ray's gliding can destroy Badniks, and how they work underwater.

[Harkofthewaa]

Just make the Super Peel-Out a standard part of Sonic's moveset (even though it'll mean giving up the figure 8 sprite) instead of making it mutually exclusive with the Drop Dash and we'll call it good.