Am I the only one who hates how Sonic Team embraces their Memes?

[Soniman]

I don't find the memes gut  bustingly hilarious or anything. Just nice to have at least one aspect of this franchise that isn't depressingly shitty (the games) or draining (the fandom) and gives some levity to all where we can just make mostly innocent jokes about this franchise. Telling then to stop making light because the franchise is bad and doesn't "deserve"  to make that kinda humor till its good just doesn't seem to really accomplish much but make a more depressing atmosphere instead 

[Wraith]

51 minutes ago, Soniman said:

I don't find the memes gut  bustingly hilarious or anything. Just nice to have at least one aspect of this franchise that isn't depressingly shitty (the games) or draining (the fandom) and gives some levity to all where we can just make mostly innocent jokes about this franchise. Telling then to stop making light because the franchise is bad and doesn't "deserve"  to make that kinda humor till its good just doesn't seem to really accomplish much but make a more depressing atmosphere instead 

They can make a lighter atmosphere without making fun of themselves, though?

Instead of drawing shitty OCs why not, instead, highlight fanartists who make great original designs? That's just one example.  They don't have to be meanspirited about it. 

To the PR team's credit, this isn't a  big of an issue as I'm making it sound like it is. They have done a lot of good wok for the community with the constant fan engagements and events and stuff. I just wish the self depreceation aspects would go away entirely

[SpongicX]

A good laugh from the fans is fun every once in a while, but having official Sonic pages treating it like a joke is getting old. Some of their posts are very cringe filled, or feel desperate to pandering towards popular trends. Remember that awkward attempt at spoofing off The Shape Of Water with Amy and Chaos? Even as a parody, that was embarrassing, and too forced.

We don’t want Sega to keep laughing about how much of a joke people think the series has gotten, we want to see them improve it with better games.

They finally embraced the classic fans, and that worked out well with Mania. Now instead of ignoring the Adventure fans and making fun of them, they should try getting a team dedicated to making a better Adventure inspired game. Instead of pointing out what’s already been joked about millions of times, I’d rather they focus on making better games. Forces was such a let down, and forced in stuff without any care or understanding for both the classic and adventure fans.

[Marco9966]

They need to hire these guys to do a respectable 3D game:

https://sonicworldfangame.com/

https://youtu.be/1I27p0CtlXk

They can do to Adventure what Mania did to Classic!

[SpongicX]

6 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

They need to hire these guys to do a respectable 3D game:

https://sonicworldfangame.com/

https://youtu.be/1I27p0CtlXk

They can do to Adventure what Mania did to Classic!

I wish I could agree, the concept is neat, but the game is too glitchy. Some of the levels are too long and repetitive, and the boss fights are pretty bad.

It’s fine as a fan game, but I don’t think the current team are cut for selling a full game out of this. They keep jamming in new levels and gimmicks, without fixing the old issues first. The game keeps randomly crashing at times as well.

I would love a game inspired by Sonic World’s concept, but I would want to see a better team working on it, a team that knows how to fix issues, before jamming in more broken content.

A full game like Sonic World would be great though. Multiple characters, multiple missions, and a chao garden. All it would need is a hub world, story mode, and some fun bonus content, and we would have a game Adventure fans have been waiting for.

[Marco9966]

Just now, SpongicX said:

I wish I could agree, the concept is neat, but the game is too glitchy. Some of the levels are too long and repetitive, and the boss fights are pretty bad.

It’s fine as a fan game, but I don’t think the current team are cut for selling a full game out of this. They keep jamming in new levels and gimmicks, without fixing the old issues first. The game keeps randomly crashing at times as well.

I would love a game inspired by Sonic World’s concept, but I would want to see a better team working on it, a team that knows how to fix issues, before jamming in more broken content.

A full game like Sonic World would be great though. Multiple characters, multiple missions, and a chao garden. All it would need is a hub world, story mode, and some fun bonus content, and we would have a game Adventure fans have been waiting for.

They could work with Sonic Team, let this fan team handle the physics and the controls, and let Sonic Team do the level designs to fit this adventure physics.

[Tracker_TD]

Sonic World is dumpster fire of quantity-over-quality, with a petulant child 'leading' it. If that were to be the next Sonic game, we'd be utterly effed. The physics are the worst part! (Who on earth thought recreating Heroes physics was a good idea?)

Anyway, I don't mind the Sonic social media in general - but particularly after that Mighty No 9 dig, the self-deprecation has kinda worn thin with Forces' release. 

[Marco9966]

Sonic Heroes physics is better than all the boost games!

[Diogenes]

33 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Sonic Heroes physics is better than all the boost games!

Maybe. But they're still inexcusably bad. And the series is going to need to do more than copy 15 year old mistakes to get itself back on track.

[Marco9966]

What about Adventure physics?

Classic fanboys got their Mania.

Adventure fanboys deserve their SA3 (or whatever other name for a good 3D without boost and a controllable character with spin dash) because they are the ones that do most output of fanarts, fanfics and fancharacters, which raise SEGA's publicity (whether it's a masterpiece or a recolor)!!

[Kellan]

6 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Maybe. But they're still inexcusably bad. And the series is going to need to do more than copy 15 year old mistakes to get itself back on track.

Really? Heroes has “inexcusably bad” physics? In what possible way?

[Marco9966]

6 minutes ago, Kellan said:

Really? Heroes has “inexcusably bad” physics? In what possible way?

IKR! Heroes was very fun and very controllable, it lets us do homing attacks like WE WANT (not like the boost games which control us and not us controlling them).

And we actually got fast without the need for the boost (ahem, one-button win) gameplay!

+the teamwork gameplay was perfect AND fast if we are experienced.

They should have kept Renderware for Sonic 06 , perhaps it would have been praised, and we would get to keep our beloved Adventure gameplay and deep stories, and not deal with silly jokes and coward Tails and Classic Sonic shoving himself into Modern Sonic's adventures...

[Tracker_TD]

1 hour ago, Kellan said:

Really? Heroes has “inexcusably bad” physics? In what possible way?

You ever been to an ice rink?

Yeah. That. 

1 hour ago, Marco9966 said:

They should have kept Renderware for Sonic 06 , perhaps it would have been praised, and we would get to keep our beloved Adventure gameplay and deep stories, and not deal with silly jokes and coward Tails and Classic Sonic shoving himself into Modern Sonic's adventures...

...what? What difference would the graphics engine make to the game and story? Eh? 

[HywelAtTheMoon]

1 hour ago, Marco9966 said:

IKR! Heroes was very fun and very controllable, it lets us do homing attacks like WE WANT (not like the boost games which control us and not us controlling them).

And we actually got fast without the need for the boost (ahem, one-button win) gameplay!

+the teamwork gameplay was perfect AND fast if we are experienced.

They should have kept Renderware for Sonic 06 , perhaps it would have been praised, and we would get to keep our beloved Adventure gameplay and deep stories, and not deal with silly jokes and coward Tails and Classic Sonic shoving himself into Modern Sonic's adventures...

Renderware was made by Criterion. After being bought by EA, Renderware's licensing costs probably would have skyrocketed to astronomical levels. 

[Marco9966]

3 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

You ever been to an ice rink?

Yeah. That. 

...what? What difference would the graphics engine make to the game and story? Eh? 

Sonic 06 had lots of bug and endless loading times, plus they had to release it prematurely.

If they took an engine they familiar with, they would have deilvered a better product in terms of gameplay, AND in an early release.

[Tracker_TD]

4 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Sonic 06 had lots of bug and endless loading times, plus they had to release it prematurely.

If they took an engine they familiar with, they would have deilvered a better product in terms of gameplay, AND in an early release.

Again, Renderware is a graphics engine. Not gameplay. It's like saying Forces sucked because of the Hedgehog Engine. 

06's problems lie in far more than just glitches and loading times. 

[Kellan]

6 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

You ever been to an ice rink?

Yeah. That. 

That’s it? I mean Heroes can be a little slippery, but it’s not inexcusably bad. Heck, I just beat Sonic 2 for the first time, and game is way, way more slippery than Heroes. At least with Heroes you can walk up a slight incline without a running start. Does that make Sonic 2 inexcusably bad, or do you maybe just not like Heroes?

[Tracker_TD]

1 minute ago, Kellan said:

That’s it? I mean Heroes can be a little slippery, but it’s not inexcusably bad. Heck, I just beat Sonic 2 for the first time, and game is way, way more slippery than Heroes. At least with Heroes you can walk up a slight incline without a running start. Does that make Sonic 2 inexcusably bad, or do you maybe just not like Heroes?

...oh right, it's April Fools Day. Pfft, how could I forget? 

...

Right?

[Tornado]

19 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

Renderware was made by Criterion. After being bought by EA, Renderware's licensing costs probably would have skyrocketed to astronomical levels. 

That's a great way to make money with an extremely widely used multiplatform engine that you own the rights to after buying its developer!

 

 

 

Incidentally, ShtH used Renderware despite coming long after EA had bought Criterion.

1 hour ago, Kellan said:

Really? Heroes has “inexcusably bad” physics? In what possible way?

Yes. Yes. Every time you needed to do anything that wasn't running down a corridor.

 

 

Anything else?

11 minutes ago, Kellan said:

That’s it? I mean Heroes can be a little slippery, but it’s not inexcusably bad. Heck, I just beat Sonic 2 for the first time, and game is way, way more slippery than Heroes. At least with Heroes you can walk up a slight incline without a running start. Does that make Sonic 2 inexcusably bad, or do you maybe just not like Heroes?

No, that just makes you making shit up wholesale to defend something that hasn't been news to anyway else for 14 years. Even the 3D Special Stages that Heroes rips off wholesale control better in Sonic 2 even though in that game they aren't even 3D.

[Marco9966]

14 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

Again, Renderware is a graphics engine. Not gameplay. It's like saying Forces sucked because of the Hedgehog Engine. 

06's problems lie in far more than just glitches and loading times. 

No, they had to do the physics and everything all over again.

Shadow the hedgehog game did not take too long because they had an engine they knew to use, and had the physics and models and everything ready! Better gameplay than Sonic 06.

 

Btw, NEW SANIC PRODUCTS ON SEGA STORE

https://shop.sega.com/collections/sanic-collection

[Kellan]

1 minute ago, Tornado said:

No, that just makes you making shit up wholesale to defend something that hasn't been news to anyway else for 14 years.

Excuse me? I haven’t said anything that isn’t based on my experience playing the games. Maybe the PC port of Sonic 2 is just bad, but you really can’t walk up hills in that game. The friction simply does not allow it without either a running start or a spindash. I’m sorry if it doesn’t match your experience with the game, but I didn’t think I was required to have the same experience as everyone else.

[Tracker_TD]

Just now, Kellan said:

Excuse me? I haven’t said anything that isn’t based on my experience playing the games. Maybe the PC port of Sonic 2 is just bad, but you really can’t walk up hills in that game. The friction simply does not allow it without either a running start or a spindash. I’m sorry if it doesn’t match your experience with the game, but I didn’t think I was required to have the same experience as everyone else.

I mean yeah

You need to build up momentum

 

Standard Physics, innit 

[Marco9966]

2 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

I mean yeah

You need to build up momentum

 

Standard Physics, innit 

We also need to build up momentum in Sonic Adventure! (Momentum is a thing that was dropped from the games when Boost came )

[Diogenes]

1 hour ago, Marco9966 said:

What about Adventure physics?

Not as bad as Heroes but still not worth specifically bringing back.

Mania happened because the Genesis Sonics were, overall, polished, well designed, and incredibly fun games and their gameplay style is still solid enough to be valuable. The Adventures, while a good number of people have fond memories of them (myself included), are incredibly dated games. Their gameplay simply isn't up to modern standards, and for reasons deeper than their bugs and lack of polish. And this series needs to do better than just trying to polish dated gameplay because Adventure fans feel like they're owed something.

1 hour ago, Kellan said:

Really? Heroes has “inexcusably bad” physics? In what possible way?

The way the characters move as if they're on ice, careening around wildly, often almost uncontrollably.

1 hour ago, Marco9966 said:

IKR! Heroes was very fun and very controllable, it lets us do homing attacks like WE WANT (not like the boost games which control us and not us controlling them).

What in the hell does this even mean? How are you any more in control of the homing attack in Heroes than in the boost games (or any other)? You jump near an enemy, you press the button, and you attack whatever the game decides you're trying to attack. If anything Heroes' homing attack is one of the worst in the series, considering how slow and inaccurate it is, how it was made incredibly weak so the leveling system and the power characters would have a purpose, and how inconsistent your teammates are in matching your attacks.

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And we actually got fast without the need for the boost (ahem, one-button win) gameplay!

Buddy, going fast simply because you can press forward on the control stick is not much better.

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+the teamwork gameplay was perfect AND fast if we are experienced.

"Perfect"? The team system pigeonholes characters so tightly into their roles that none of them are actually any fun to play with and even just trying to switch characters often has them flail wildly around the screen until they can find where they're supposed to be. Even one of the game's most basic "hey you're controlling 3 characters" gimmicks, the 3 parallel loops, barely even work.

[Tornado]

15 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

No, they had to do the physics and everything all over again.

They chose to do that themselves, possibly because the engine was great for making PS2 multiplatform games and was 10 years old at that point and Sega were making a PS360 game.. You don't understand the point of middleware development if you think EA would have held the engine hostage once they bought Criterion.

 

Quote

Shadow the hedgehog game did not take too long because they had an engine they knew to use, and had the physics and models and everything ready! Better gameplay than Sonic 06.

Man, if only the series had continued reaching to the dizzying heights of Shadow the Hedgehog.

 

14 minutes ago, Kellan said:

Excuse me? I haven’t said anything that isn’t based on my experience playing the games. Maybe the PC port of Sonic 2 is just bad, but you really can’t walk up hills in that game. The friction simply does not allow it without either a running start or a spindash.

Oh, you mean pinball physics then. I'm sorry you joined a fanbase that was originally based around games where that was the entire point.

 

Quote

I’m sorry if it doesn’t match your experience with the game, but I didn’t think I was required to have the same experience as everyone else.

Didn't you just try to excuse Sonic Heroes' extensive and widely known problem as "you just don't like it?" Get out of here with this.

 

 

Sonic Heroes is in the top three of my favorite titles in this entire series. The tone and level design and scope and graphics and overall spectacle are absolute perfection for what I want in a Sonic game; and it was the last time the franchise really was popular without asterisks.

It does not play very well. It is not news, out of left field nonsense never before expressed until this thread, that it does not play very well. You complaining that the franchise's foundation games don't control very well (and describing the problems they supposedly have in terms that don't apply) does not make Heroes play very well.