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Character and Circuit Discussion for Team Sonic Racing ūüŹĀ

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1 hour ago, Ajavalo said:

What? There are people here that don't think Team Sonic is a good team because Knuckles doesn't fit there? How?

The bonds that link Knux to Sonic and Tails are much stronger than any rivalry he may have towards them. There's more than the three of them simply appearing in Sonic 3: Sonic and Tails saved Angel Island, and they have always helped Knux whenever he's needed it, he's got nobody else he can call "friend" or "ally", he knows that even if he generally prefers being alone.

And, perhaps most important of all, let's not forget that Knuckles is above all a pure-hearted hero, who is always willing to fight alongside Sonic to save the world. He wouldn't go with anti-heroes/generally nasty guys Shadow and Rouge unless he has a reason (if Rouge also wants to "save" the Master Emerald, for instance), and definitely not with lesser heroes/more mundane guys Amy, Big and the like.

 

What bonds? The guy came at Sonic into a fist fight in SA1, despite Sonic previously having saved his dear waifu the ME in S3&K (heck, after setting so many traps. and a fist fight, Knuckles only helps them because of being betrayed by Eggman). In SA2, not only is Knuckles shoehorned into a role that at the end proves to be pointless (the Bio Lizzard just goes "Lol, nope" before he can do anything), but also wrestles the controls of the Space Shuttle and puts everyone in danger because getting the emerald shards was more important than Sonic, Tails and Amy. In Heroes, he's there just because of a game mechanic, even when story-wise, the most logical character for Tails to ask for help was Amy, as she could help Tails locate Sonic in time to warn him about Eggman's challenge thanks to her tarot cards and intuition that allows her to keep up. In 06, he's shamelessly brute-forced into the game to deliver a letter from the bad guy, even when Sonic was already going to the place indicated (like Roger Van Der Weide said in one of his parody videos of 06: "I don't need you so I'll take you with me"). In 06 you don't see him mourn Sonic's death.

Heck, I can safely say that Knuckles has never demostrated to care for Sonic nor be willing to help him out of an in-character motive that is not a necessary alliance, like Tails and Amy do, who in SA2 where the only to arrive to break him out of prison (with Amy no less being the first to get there, and already having acquired the key card to his cell), risk their lives for him (Tails shielding Sonic in Colors from Eggman's ray, Amy from Gamma and Silver... Hell, out of Tails and Amy, Amy's the only one willing to go a step further by giving up her dreams of being with Sonic like in 06 where letting Elise perform the ritual to revive Sonic that involved the kiss was more important. With this in mind, what does Knuckles have other than a very shallow reason dictated by marketing?

3 minutes ago, JosepHenry said:

I noticed how Team Rose is basically Team Adventure.

Blaze Cream and Silver would represent the handheld era perfectly.

Swap Silver for Gmerl and you'd be correct. XD

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Alright, so now I'm guessing either Cream is going to be on a team with Silver and Blaze and the Chaotix just won't be in it at all or Cream just isn't here again.

I actually think the 4 Chao thing is really cool on its own. It harkens back to the days of SA2:B where they could pilot those weird, chao mechs in the two player.

From a story standpoint and the claustrophobic worry about the 15 character limit, it makes no sense. 

If they just put in 3 more characters you could have had the original Team Rose and just let Silver and Blaze play with the chao.

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2 hours ago, JaidynReiman said:

Wasn't Cream with Blaze in Sonic Rush? I guess that can SOMEWHAT be justified, but it still doesn't make much sense. The problem with Silver-Blaze-Cream is lack of a Power character, unless they make that Silver. Silver and Cream should both theoretically be Technical.

Replacing Cream on Team Rose makes more sense because its easier to fill Technical slot than Power. And well, Sumo Digital loves Big.

Cream doesn't really fit with "Technique" in my mind, at least not as well as Tails, Rouge or even Omochao. I honestly think she would make more sense as a Power character, due to Cheese, but that would likely come across as weird to the layman. It would be funny though.

 

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I'm pretty confident that the Chaotix will be in the game as a team and each one with a separate car.

This means that there are only 3 places for Cream, Silver, Blaze, Eggman, Metal Sonic and whoever else is missing (including Infinite and eventually other bad guys).

This either means:

Cream is not the only recurring character that will miss from the game

or

There will be more teams than just 5.

At this point, I hope the last team (excluding Chaotix) is Blaze, Cream and Silver, and that Eggman's team is a secret unlockable after finishing the story mode. (classic characters will most likely be DLCs).

This is what would make most sense, at least.

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Amy is so beautiful standing next to her car with it having headlights that look like eyes I was expecting Cream to be part of the team but then there's four Chao to my surprise. I'm happy to see there isn't any Blaze or Silver here with Big taking the last spot on the team now with Amy being speed type she won't have only 1 speed being slower then everyone else can't wait to see how she interacts with Big, Chao, and the others in the game. 

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4 minutes ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Amy is so beautiful standing next to her car with it having headlights that look like eyes I was expecting Cream to be part of the team but then there's four Chao to my surprise. I'm happy to see there isn't any Blaze or Silver here with Big taking the last spot on the team now with Amy being speed type she won't have only 1 speed being slower then everyone else can't wait to see how she interacts with Big, Chao, and the others in the game. 

Omochao will be a very fun character in the game, especially when he interacts with not only his teammates, but also his passengers and ‚ÄúDonpa‚ÄĚ.

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29 minutes ago, Iko said:

I'm pretty confident that the Chaotix will be in the game as a team and each one with a separate car.

This means that there are only 3 places for Cream, Silver, Blaze, Eggman, Metal Sonic and whoever else is missing (including Infinite and eventually other bad guys).

This either means:

Cream is not the only recurring character that will miss from the game

or

There will be more teams than just 5.

At this point, I hope the last team (excluding Chaotix) is Blaze, Cream and Silver, and that Eggman's team is a secret unlockable after finishing the story mode. (classic characters will most likely be DLCs).

This is what would make most sense, at least.

That would be the best thing, frankly. But they've repeatedly stated 15 characters, so I dunno...

I could see Cream, Silver, and Blaze missing out I guess. Silver and Blaze have never really been associated with a team.

 

But yeah, I''m sure Chaotix are probably all in separate vehicles. We've already seen what is obviously Vector's vehicle as is, and its clearly not based on the Team as a whole.

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2 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

What bonds? The guy came at Sonic into a fist fight in SA1, despite Sonic previously having saved his dear waifu the ME in S3&K (heck, after setting so many traps. and a fist fight, Knuckles only helps them because of being betrayed by Eggman). In SA2, not only is Knuckles shoehorned into a role that at the end proves to be pointless (the Bio Lizzard just goes "Lol, nope" before he can do anything), but also wrestles the controls of the Space Shuttle and puts everyone in danger because getting the emerald shards was more important than Sonic, Tails and Amy. In Heroes, he's there just because of a game mechanic, even when story-wise, the most logical character for Tails to ask for help was Amy, as she could help Tails locate Sonic in time to warn him about Eggman's challenge thanks to her tarot cards and intuition that allows her to keep up. In 06, he's shamelessly brute-forced into the game to deliver a letter from the bad guy, even when Sonic was already going to the place indicated (like Roger Van Der Weide said in one of his parody videos of 06: "I don't need you so I'll take you with me"). In 06 you don't see him mourn Sonic's death.

Heck, I can safely say that Knuckles has never demostrated to care for Sonic nor be willing to help him out of an in-character motive that is not a necessary alliance, like Tails and Amy do, who in SA2 where the only to arrive to break him out of prison (with Amy no less being the first to get there, and already having acquired the key card to his cell), risk their lives for him (Tails shielding Sonic in Colors from Eggman's ray, Amy from Gamma and Silver... Hell, out of Tails and Amy, Amy's the only one willing to go a step further by giving up her dreams of being with Sonic like in 06 where letting Elise perform the ritual to revive Sonic that involved the kiss was more important. With this in mind, what does Knuckles have other than a very shallow reason dictated by marketing?

Swap Silver for Gmerl and you'd be correct. XD

Actually, Knuckles did show emotion from Sonic’s death in 06. He cried out Sonic’s name upon seeing him lifeless, and risked his life to find an emerald to save Sonic’s life.

 

Other than that, I agree that Knuckles feels to shorhorned into these games without a fitting reason.

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2 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

Essentially, Knuckle's only saving grace is the random luck of having been featured in the third Genesis game. This is why I dislike the trio so much as it both reduces Knuckles to being the equivalent of a YT clickbait thumbnail that exploits that association (not to mentio waste his character by making him sidekick 2.0 instead of the Daffy Duck to Sonic's Bugs Bunny), and robs other characters from having spotlight like it happened in Forces where other character like Rouge, Vector and Amy were more fit to play the role, with Amy being even suggested in the IDW comic as the one that was actually doing the part of keeping everything organized because of ST's shallow mentality. Heck, for all the team dynamic in the game, the cover completely omits both Omega and Rouge so that it can focus on the only four characters ST has faith in.

But anyway, I doubt that's ever going to change given how stubborn the people at ST can be.

Moving on to the characters...

with nine out of 15 participants, that only leaves room for six more vehicles. If the Chaotix are going to be in, they'll probably end up in a single vehicle much like the Chao, and I'm OK with this since in-universe, I imagine that the poor guys would only have budget for just one vehicle... Unless by miracle they'e actually given each their own rides.

Blaze and Silver are two that I doubt ST would want to overlook, and probably where Cream could be added in. This is a logical team given how Blaze and Cream have some story with Rush and the opening cutscene from Generations, plus it's funny to imagine Cream racing against the little critters that she cares after. XD

Silver will be there because, just as ST loves to peg Knuckles to Sonic and Tails, they also have this thing for pairing him with Blaze because of that one game that self-deleted from canon.

The only thing that would upset these two teams is the eventual inclusion of Eggman, as there is no way that the second most important character of the franchise is going to be left out. Maybe he'll race along Metal Sonic (who appeared in the two previous racing games by Sumo) and his most recent "creation" Kylo Re... I mean, Infinite.

Of course. This seems to be a good setup.

2 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Using general Crocodilian puns for a Crocodilian character regardless of what Crocodilian they are has been a thing for decades. 

And considering it’s likely Vector is the one driving, there’s nothing saying the other Chaotix aren’t passengers. We’ve only seen it from the front, and it could have stuff relating to the other two in the back. Maybe also they could just lampshade it. And Blaze could be Silver’s combustion engine, with Chaos providing the hydro power of Tikal’s hydroelectric vehicle.

Or the vehicle is a plot device that Vector wants to have, but can’t afford, and is forced to share with the others.

Or what if they reference the Blaze is Infinite theory by turning her into Donpa using the Ruby?  Would be an unexpected twist. 

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On the topic of multi passenger vehicles: How would that work in the context of groups?

Do we suddenly have Team Ennead with nine racers spread across three vehicles or does one unit count as a team? How do you score the latter considering it's easier to rank high with one car instead of three?

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1 minute ago, Patron said:

On the topic of multi passenger vehicles: How would that work in the context of groups?

Do we suddenly have Team Ennead with nine racers spread across three vehicles or does one unit count as a team? How do you score the latter considering it's easier to rank high with one car instead of three?

The Team Ennead approach, as clearly shown with the Omochao taxi that’s already in, and the prior SUMO racers.

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I was at work when the character reveals for Team Rose happened so I missed the initial reactions. Reading them on page 12 is kind of funny. I didn't want to be all snarky and just shoot anyone down who was seriously considering (for some reason) characters like Tikal being in this 15 character roster game but come on now. 

I definitely made the joke about Team Rose just being Amy and "whoever they decide to team her up with that day" but this kind of just makes it official. It's so weird. 

Even funnier is the ridiculous idea that Iizuka might actually believe "Cream is too young" is a viable explanation. There's so many reasons why it isn't; from her appearance in the Riders games, to Charmy being the same age and yet allowed on the front lines in Forces, to Tails being a mere two years older, to the weirdness of saying Cream can't drive but the Chao (the fucking virtual babies you raise up in a garden) can.

It's like they said "Cream, you're not allowed in, but we'll let your chao friend in. Yeah, that's right. Cheese is playable but not you."

I'm not expecting Charmy to make it of course. I didn't before, mostly because that would mean getting what I wanted, but now I'm expecting something weird like Silver and Blaze hiring Vector. Or something. 

 

 

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Chao is a bizarre choice but also unexpected, so I'll give them props for that. I dig it.

I'm actually not too fussed about which characters get in as long as they're interesting and unique from each other. I do think Blaze should get in though. With a sweet hot rod or something.

Speaking of vehicles,  I'm not really feeling the designs this time round. They're nice but they don't quite 'pop' like the previous games'.

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Just now, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I was at work when the character reveals for Team Rose happened so I missed the initial reactions. Reading them on page 12 is kind of funny. I didn't want to be all snarky and just shoot anyone down who was seriously considering (for some reason) characters like Tikal being in this 15 character roster game but come on now. 

I definitely made the joke about Team Rose just being Amy and "whoever they decide to team her up with that day" but this kind of just makes it official. It's so weird. 

Even funnier is the ridiculous idea that Iizuka might actually believe "Cream is too young" is a viable explanation. There's so many reasons why it isn't; from her appearance in the Riders games, to Charmy being the same age and yet allowed on the front lines in Forces, to Tails being a mere two years older, to the weirdness of saying Cream can't drive but the Chao (the fucking virtual babies you raise up in a garden) can.

It's like they said "Cream, you're not allowed in, but we'll let your chao friend in. Yeah, that's right. Cheese is playable but not you."

I'm not expecting Charmy to make it of course. I didn't before, mostly because that would mean getting what I wanted, but now I'm expecting something weird like Silver and Blaze hiring Vector. Or something. 

 

 

Amy's team is not really random its just that her team is bigger than everyone else's at times someone will sign on to a team just for one mission then leave the thing with Cream is that in Sonic Free Riders she didn't want to race just wanted to cheer Amy on but got rope in to it and this game has a story as well so that might be it. 

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9 hours ago, JosepHenry said:

I noticed how Team Rose is basically Team Adventure.

Cream, Blaze and Silver would represent the handheld era perfectly. (Advance for Cream, Rush for Blaze and Rivals for Silver.)

wow, did not notice that...

also..

Team Genesis=Team Sonic

Team Gamecube=Team Dark

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The Classic Trio, Team Dark, Team Rose, The Chaotix, and probably something around Eggman are obviously established.

As for other characters, the Babylon Rogues, Silver, and Blaze are also likely open to contending and part of me might foresee/like Sticks, Marine, Metal, Gemerl, Chaos, Zavok, Zazz, 3rd Zeti, and perhaps a new character or more being (other)surprise unlockables.

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How does Marine keep getting mentions? She's spectacularly irrelevant to the series. She's been little more than a name drop since her supporting role in SRA.

If Sonic Runners didn't bring her in as playable, I don't see how she has a prayer here.

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3 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I was at work when the character reveals for Team Rose happened so I missed the initial reactions. Reading them on page 12 is kind of funny. I didn't want to be all snarky and just shoot anyone down who was seriously considering (for some reason) characters like Tikal being in this 15 character roster game but come on now. 

I definitely made the joke about Team Rose just being Amy and "whoever they decide to team her up with that day" but this kind of just makes it official. It's so weird. 

Even funnier is the ridiculous idea that Iizuka might actually believe "Cream is too young" is a viable explanation. There's so many reasons why it isn't; from her appearance in the Riders games, to Charmy being the same age and yet allowed on the front lines in ForcÔĽŅes, to Tails being a mere two years older, to the weirdness of saying Cream can't drive but the Chao (the fucking virtual babies you raise up in a garden) can. ÔĽŅ

It's like they said "Cream, you're not allowed in, but we'll let your chao friend in. Yeah, that's right. Cheese is playable but not you."

I'm not expecting Charmy to make it of course. I didn't before, mostly because that would mean getting what I wanted, but now I'm expecting something weird like Silver and Blaze hiring Vector. Or something. 

 

 

SEGA always hated Cream, they gave her Cheese to attack in her place and keep her polite image because it's not good that little girls punch.

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2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

How does Marine keep getting mentions? She's spectacularly irrelevant to the series. She's been little more than a name drop since her supporting role in SRA.

If Sonic Runners didn't bring her in as playable, I don't see how she has a prayer here.

Yeah. I don't see how people foresee her appearing in anything aside from the comics. I'm honestly not sure why all these extended characters like Germel and Tikal keep being brought up either.

Unless it's like a wish-list sort of thing, they didn't have much of a chance even if the character limit was above 15. The fact that they replaced Cream with the thing she hurls at people to fight is a big enough clue to me that not only was I right not to get my hopes up but I should have expected even weirder than what I thought might happen.

I'm still anticipating this game obviously. I don't know how this story is going to work now though. If Team Rose is in it then... are the chao going to be acknowledged as racers within the narrative...? Or are they gonna do something where Amy forced Omochao to be their third racer for hi-jinks. 

Maybe. If Lego Dimensions is anything to go by, Omochao can at least be treated like a character you can have some semblance of a conversation with, even if most of it is them telling it to shut up.

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19 hours ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

I gathered from the comments in this stream that Iizuka mentioned "Cream is too young to drive"


Considering the driving age is 16- 18 in most countries, I'd say every character but Eggman is too young to drive then.
Team Sonic Racing should have been a sad lonely Eggman driving in circles by himself.
Unless Shadow being frozen for 50 years counts as his actual aging, then he can join in.

But yeah, sorry 4 times world saver, 4 times potential Olympic game winner, 3 times Extreme board champion Cream, cars are too dangerous for you.
Woops, Eggman kidnapped your mom in Sonic's abscence again, go assault his airfleet instead.

Cream is too young to drive a car...

....but she is young enough to go on those dayam crazy hoverboards! 

Pathetic excuse Iizuka. Whoever made that decision, pathetic, lazy.

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8 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

Cream is too young to drive a car...

....but she is young enough to go on those dayam crazy hoverboards! 

Pathetic excuse Iizuka. Whoever made that decision, pathetic, lazy.

It was her only chance of appearing in a main game. Sad.

They even forbid her from fighting in the comics! This is patriarchy (am not a SJW but what other reason can I say they don't wanna feature her in any way??)

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So, now that the dust has settled and I've had time to collect my thoughts a little, here's why this latest revelation strikes me as so weird:

Just to get it out of the way, not really related to anything, but Amy's car strikes me as particularly boring.  The design is relatively simplistic and doesn't have the kind of level of detail of the other vehicles - which isn't necessarily a wholly bad thing, and the idea of one car being a little simpler isn't something I mind, though it still needs a little more polish ot me; but the problem is the colour scheme, which is literally identical to Rouge's car.  A large area of silver-white, with secondary pale-pink...  It's broadly too similar.  Even reversing the primary-secondary relationships would've helped, but as it stands there's an instant mental comparison to Rouge's car, which has a much more interesting design.  So that to me is a problem.  But it's not what I came here to talk about.

No, it's the fact that we've got Big but no Cream that feels odd.  For what it's worth, I have no particularly intense feelings towards either character; so I hope I'm approaching this somewhat objectively.  I don't mind having Big, and I don't mind not having Cream.  But it's strange that that should be the case.  Big I assumed was already getting representation, in the form of the Big-like mystery character, who I assumed was Phantom Ruby Big or Big Nega or something silly like that; conversely, Chao already have plenty of representation in the game, both in making up the crowds and, potentially, as an accessory to Cream, who I also suspect would've driven a similar Chao-themed buggy.  So it seemed to me that the game was already not lacking for Big and Chao.

Secondly, there's the relatively small roster and team theme, which had already led me to believe that we were getting purely the big-hitters and no particularly off-beat choices - and in that regard, I thought Sega were more likely to prioritise a character like Blaze or Silver.  I had assumed Sega would do anything to net one or both of those a roster slot, as they're relatively popular, and Team Rose seemed the obvious place to do it.  But if we're dropping Cream for Chao, which are already there, then - well, I just don't see that there's going to be room for Blaze or Silver.  Do Sega really think that Chao are popular enough to need so much more representation than Blaze or Silver?  That strikes me as strange.

And that leads me to my final conclusion, which is that it looks awfully to me as if Team Rose was meant to be the classic Amy-Big-Cream line-up - but that for some reason Cream specifically was taken out of the equation.  I mean, facing facts, Cream seems like she should have greater clout than Big; she must have had more playable appearances and therefore appearances overall, for instance.  And yet Mr. Meme got in, while she was traded for redundant Chao?  You don't have to be a Cream fan to find that odd.  Chao are so redundant next to potential big names like Blaze and Silver that (unless those two are being saved up for DLC, which is scurrilous) they honestly look more like a filler choice scrambled up specifically to replace Cream.  And that leads me to take into account the fact that Cream was conspicuously absent from Forces.  It's not difficult to construct an in-universe explanation for why that was, and I didn't think it was that mysterious; but, combined with her slightly bizarre absence here, maybe even with the alleged pacifist mandate in the comics, it makes me wonder - has Sega developed a problem with Cream?  Or, conversely - is there some new reason why they feel absolutely compelled to push Chao as much as possible?

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I was away at the time this got dropped as well, but this is both a blessing and a disappointment for me:

The blessing part is that I'm happy Big is back and playable again, I had a feeling Sumo might bring him back again given his inclusion in the original SASR and they kinda liked him alot, didn't they? I also really dig his slightly less super-dopey artwork in this and his car as well.

But the disappointment part? As usually changing as Team Rose's third cast was (Big in Heroes and Chronicles, Vector in Free Riders), Cream was always pretty much her best friend as far as what actual consistent lore there was in the modern plots allowed, even if Amy could be a bit bossy at times. (Heroes, Battle, a couple of interactions in X, Free Riders, to name a few). And now she's just replaced by a bunch of Chao and Omochao? I have nothing against them being playable, heck I think it's a great out-of-nowhere addition that I think actually fits, but as part of Amy's team in Cream's place? That's honestly a bit depressing.

Does ST even care about Cream's existence at all at this point or any justification to include her in?

Edit: FFWF pretty much summed up my thoughts about Cream's exclusion, thanks man.

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