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Character and Circuit Discussion for Team Sonic Racing 🏁


jgcatindig

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3 minutes ago, RustyRick said:

I was away at the time this got dropped as well, but this is both a blessing and a disappointment for me:

The blessing part is that I'm happy Big is back and playable again, I had a feeling Sumo might bring him back again given his inclusion in the original SASR and they kinda liked him alot, didn't they? I also really dig his slightly less super-dopey artwork in this and his car as well.

But the disappointment part? As usually changing as Team Rose's third cast was (Big in Heroes and Chronicles, Vector in Free Riders), Cream was always pretty much her best friend as far as what actual consistent lore there was in the modern plots allowed, even if Amy could be a bit bossy at times. (Heroes, Battle, a couple of interactions in X, Free Riders, to name a few). And now she's just replaced by a bunch of Chao and Omochao? I have nothing against them being playable, heck I think it's a great out-of-nowhere addition that I think actually fits, but as part of Amy's team in Cream's place? That's honestly a bit depressing.

Does ST even care about Cream's existence at all at this point or any justification to include her in?

Edit: FFWF pretty much summed up my thoughts about Cream's exclusion, thanks man.

I think we should open a forum where Sonic Team and Sonic fans can directly interact so that Sonic Team knows what we want (we want chao, but we also want cream)

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1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

I think we should open a forum where Sonic Team and Sonic fans can directly interact so that Sonic Team knows what we want (we want chao, but we also want cream)

As much as I'd like that, would they seriously be open to that idea if approached to it the right way? I'm all aware that the fanbase is divisive as heck on what they want, but would there be a way to actually suggest collectively agreed idea's to the staff to give them support/pointers that would satisfy the consumer?

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We could do polls on this forum and send them the results.

Like what characters do we want most, what story style do we want most, gameplay style...

and what we don't want (like no classic in modern games, no bitchy Tails...)

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That does sound like a good idea, I'd be all up for it. ^^

But yeah, at the very least I'm gonna speculate Cream will be part of Blaze's team then if anything. If Silver and Blaze will be in, I guess Cream as their 3rd member could be a thing given her bonding with Blaze in Rush, but I'm not getting my hopes up too quickly unless we can actually voice our opinions to ST or Sumo.

That does make me wonder, does Sumo have their own freedom of choice of who to implement in the roster, or are they restricted by ST?

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51 minutes ago, RustyRick said:

That does make me wonder, does Sumo have their own freedom of choice of who to implement in the roster, or are they restricted by ST?

I would imagine that Sonic Team and/or Iizuka personally would have the final say and their approval would be necessary for any such decision - so the real question is how lenient they would be.  I imagine there's a certain level of negotiation and discussion, particularly to ensure that the teams remain appropriate to Sonic Team's vision for the franchise.  Once the "team" factor is locked in, though, then most of the roster choices become fairly obvious - you might say inevitable.  So I wouldn't imagine there's much need for Sonic Team to be particularly hands-on.  Cream being weirdly taken out of the equation feels like one of their decisions, though.

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Seriously, Cream's characterization needs to get in with the times. Hell, just...use her more. 

 

I am still very effing salty over the decision. They rather have a meme character than an actual one.

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29 minutes ago, FFWF said:

I would imagine that Sonic Team and/or Iizuka personally would have the final say and their approval would be necessary for any such decision - so the real question is how lenient they would be.  I imagine there's a certain level of negotiation and discussion, particularly to ensure that the teams remain appropriate to Sonic Team's vision for the franchise. 

That's a good point, but that's another thing entirely: I'm not even sure if Sonic Team's vision of the franchise itself is consistent, or that they can agree on some form of continuity within the franchise?

To give an example, the most I can recall of them actually caring about continuity to some degree was with some callbacks or references throughout the early 3D/portable game releases, like the newspaper bit in SA2's Dark Story recalling Tails' finale in SA1, various SA1 and 2 callbacks in Heroes and Battle, the likes.

But since then, they've been very loose about stuff that even I'm in the loop about what characters they actually consider the most popular or deserving to gain spotlight appearance or importance, or character relations besides the Sonic and Dark teams being the most team-based group of comrades.

I thought for a long time and still do that Knuckles' Chaotix is canon and that by that extend the Chaotix and Knuckles are like old friends, but Heroes makes no mention or reference to that, but then you have bits like Knuckles and Vector having a unique team celebration animation in Mario & Sonic 2016 or 2018 Olympics referencing Knux Chaotix, and then Knuckles having a few dialogue bits with the crew in Forces sort of also being a reference? Could also be unique in the context of that game's plot being that during Sonic's abscence they'd got to know each other. But yeah.

I'd really wish Izuka or a couple of key members would come forward and do really give a solid brief Q&A about how they view characters and what they settle on for canon or not. He said he dislikes Ivo Robotnik being Eggman's real name, no?

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9 minutes ago, jgcatindig said:

Seriously, Cream's characterization needs to get in with the times. Hell, just...use her more. 

 

I am still very effing salty over the decision. They rather have a meme character than an actual one.

If you are as upset about it as you say, it begs the question, have you done anything to inform SEGA of your point of view? I see this often with people who rant a lot about these sorts of things but do nothing to inform the developers actually in charge of the games, and then of course how would they know there's a problem? It's not immediately obvious if anybody from SEGA read these forums, let alone this thread.

The Twitter accounts would be a good start. Aaron Webber may not be in charge of these sorts of things but I'd imagine he tries to relay feedback where possible.

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2 minutes ago, RustyRick said:


I'd really wish Izuka or a couple of key members would come forward and do really give a solid brief Q&A about how they view characters and what they settle on for canon or not. He said he dislikes Ivo Robotnik being Eggman's real name, no?

That happened in 2010 with game canon. That didn't go well. 

Also Iizuka has made it clear that the events of Chaotix are not canon multiple times. Knuckles and Vector's unique animation was probably done because they were the power types of the Sonic side and Vector would otherwise have nothing. 

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Well, @Edward850, you earn a follow from me, as a gesture of humility. So, shall I get to making my Twitter then? I dont have one.(maybe, but forgot my code as usual ;D)

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I understand that some people like Cream, but I honestly feel that Omochao has demonstrated more personality in his appearances. Cream is just a little girl without much agency in an action series full of super-powered animals and robots. She's never even portrayed as an underdog fighting for relevance, but instead is consistently harmless and passive in character, leaving any combat to Cheese.

And with the infamous duo Big and Omochao achieving more notoriety recently (even appearing in Lego Dimensions of all things), she has even more to contend with.

That said, we could still see her as DLC, along with Blaze and Silver. I'd be surprised if SEGA would leave the latter out and he's bound to have companions.

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7 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

That happened in 2010 with game canon. That didn't go well. 

Also Iizuka has made it clear that the events of Chaotix are not canon multiple times. Knuckles and Vector's unique animation was probably done because they were the power types of the Sonic side and Vector would otherwise have nothing. 

Didn't Vector have one with DK as well? If talking about purely from the same series side, yeah that explains things better then.

But yeah, is Twitter contact with Webber for example really the only way so far to constructively give some feedback on things? If actual collectively conducted polls would be a possible option I'm all up for that too.

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I don't think Cream is in this, guys, because if there is a DLC Pre-Order team, it's gonna be Blaze (Speed) Silver (Tech) and possibly, (Gosh, I hope so) Sticks (Power). Cream would be Tech like Silver, so there is no place for her, her spot was in Team Rose!

But that doesn't mean Cream is gone, you know, Omega was also forgotten most of the time for 10 years until Forces and TSR brought him back, so never say never.

I don't get why people are mad with the Chao though, I too wanted Cream... but this is a welcome surprise in my opinion. The roster just needs a lot more characters.

I still think that the next team besides Metal Sonic - Eggman - Infinite is... Team Random: Blaze - Silver - Vector if there are really no DLC plans, if there are some then Blaze and Silver may go DLC and we may get the whole Chaotix line up. 

What do you think?

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26 minutes ago, RustyRick said:

I'd really wish Izuka or a couple of key members would come forward and do really give a solid brief Q&A about how they view characters and what they settle on for canon or not. He said he dislikes Ivo Robotnik being Eggman's real name, no?

Not a good idea, last time they asked him on the spot about humans, he came up with 2 worlds (mobian-human) as an excuse why is there no humans in new games.

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2 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Not a good idea, last time they asked him on the spot about humans, he came up with 2 worlds (mobian-human) as an excuse why is there no humans in new games.

Yeah I do recall them always being vague as heck about things, and while I can understand them not wanting to get into it for the sake of freedom per new game's plot, I'd really wish there was some form of consistency with the characters.

I could go along with that Cream's too much of a pacifist or that getting into fights against robots or other bad guys would kind of ruin her innocent nature, but honestly I find that a bit of a weak reason. She had no issue going up against Eggman in Advance 2, 3, Heroes and her story in Battle did have Emerl getting beaten up by Chaos Gamma make her realize that if there's no other resort, she has to stand up for her friends.

I'm fine with Chao's being playable as well for a surprise turn of events, but Cream's been one of the more notorious side characters who I do believe does deserve a spot in the roster, so I'm still hoping.

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1 hour ago, jgcatindig said:

Well, @Edward850, you earn a follow from me, as a gesture of humility. So, shall I get to making my Twitter then? I dont have one.(maybe, but forgot my code as usual ;D)

I already asked Aaron if there's hope for Cream appearing. Plus, I've checked and quite a few people on Twitter are asking about Cream too.

(Yes, this is the same Jennifer Hernandez who worked on the comics).

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I also agree that we should make some feedback and/or character polls and send them to Aaron and Iizuka, I see nothing wrong with this, what's stopping us? Obviously it's not that they would listen for sure or immediately, but at least we try. They are trying to please the fanbase in different ways but they don't understand us well, or how to make good games either, lol.

And I still think that Cream in a Team with Blaze and Silver just can't work because of character types.

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Just now, Drifting Jack said:

I also agree that we should make some feedback and/or character polls and send them to Aaron and Iizuka, I see nothing wrong with this, what's stopping us? Obviously it's not that they would listen for sure or immediately, but at least we try. They are trying to please the fanbase in different ways but they don't understand us well, or how to make good games either, lol.

Maybe make a poll on what teams we would like to see?

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Just now, RedFox99 said:

Maybe make a poll on what teams we would like to see?

No, some feedback on how to improve the games, and a poll about our favorite characters in general. I think it's too late to ask more from this game.

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AFAIK, game devs lurk Reddit, GAF and the likes at best. Considering most of Sonic Team is japanese, there's nothing we can do. And also, we shouldn't do. Let the men work, I would hate to have hundreds of people telling me what I should do, not to mention it's virtually impossible because everyone and their moms want something different, the Sonic fanbase is large. If they can't understand their own franchise... Well, at least Christian and crew can, I'm happy. Hopefully some group of people that understands Modern Sonic as good as Christian understands Classic Sonic will have its chance at making "the best Sonic game ever" and put the old people at Sonic Team to shame yet again. 

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I disagree, I don't want to give up hope on Modern Sonic games and let them fail. There's nothing bad about feedback, Aaron may or may not pass it along, but it's just constructive criticism to send, and a character poll wouldn't hurt either.

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13 minutes ago, Drifting Jack said:

I disagree, I don't want to give up hope on Modern Sonic games and let them fail. There's nothing bad about feedback, Aaron may or may not pass it along, but it's just constructive criticism to send, and a character poll wouldn't hurt either.

We've done a thousand of these polls before. We've been sending feedback to them for years. Nothing changes, nothing will. It's always 1 step forward, 2 steps back with current Sonic Team. You will get a messy story, Wisps, gimmicky and automated gameplay, arguably weak soundtracks, uncalled classic pandering, memes and you will like it.

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If it's really that unlikely, then yeah I'll just throw in the towel and put my chances with Whitehead and the comics, but there's always some form of hope we'll always treasure.

Nice 'Never Turn Back' reference there by the way.

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I admit that I was hyped for Forces, before we even knew it was going to be called that... And before Classic Sonic appeared out of nowhere in that first teaser. 

I want a great modern game as much as I wanted a great 2D classic game. I like Unleashed, I like Colors and I like Generations. But after that, Sonic Team simply lost track. Shorter games, bad story and characterization, repetition, automation, uncalled gimmicks, heck, they even ditched their excellent music composers... And put out a game designed by 3 newbies and directed by a guy with a questionable track at Sonic Team. They fooled us with "playable Shadow" when that is clearly just a model swap any PC mod could do, no original levels, and of course, his "back story" that only made the villain Infinite look absolutely ridiculous. Classic Sonic playing worse than Generations. The Avatar which was just a clone of Modern Sonic with Boom's hook...

For reference, AntDude's Sonic Forces review is exactly what I think about the game and the questionable direction this franchise is taking. 

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