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Character and Circuit Discussion for Team Sonic Racing 🏁


jgcatindig

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2 hours ago, JaidynReiman said:

Blaze I can see but I highly doubt Sticks. Her only non Sonic Boom appearance was Mario & Sonic Rio, and even Sonic Boom seems like it might be dead already.

While I unfortunately don’t see Sticks being a part of this game’s joke of a limited roster, I don’t see Sticks being ruled out entirely from the series. Despite Sega’s dead silent treatment towards the Boom brand, they still seem to show some care for Sticks.

For instance, when the Archie comics were cancelled, people from Sega have been avoiding a lot of questions about the characters exclusive to that franchise, but when a fan asked if Sticks would be banished to the spin off dimension, Sega gave a little hope by saying they care for Sticks, and that she isn’t necessarily ruled out of the franchise.

The fact Sega gave some hope for Sticks, instead of flat out stalling or dancing around the questions gives off a vibe that they might be working to find a way to reintroduce Sticks into the main franchise, or the IDW comics at least.

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12 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

I still think Gemerl can appear because we see his silhouette in the trailer.

notgemerl.jpg.e2b5d2ded42a938a3a6cdb6a67b89793.jpg

That's not Gemerl. That's just some random background object in the garage. In the next scene, it's clearly just Sonic and Shadow in there. 

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15 hours ago, Drifting Jack said:

I don't think the team mechanic is to blame, in Cream's case, it would have been perfect for her, it's up to who decided the roster, I'm sure Iizuka and Sumo Digital, who love Big, decided he had priority over Cream, and the Chao's are very requested too. So I don't know.

With that, I doubt Cream is dead, I've already said this:

- Mighty and Ray were long dead and forgotten and then Mania Plus and Adventures came in and brought them back even as playable.

- Big was apparently retired in 2012 and he's back.

- Same for Omega, he was nowhere to be seen in a major appearance until Forces and TSR, he was gone for like, 10 years.

I still want that official character poll though.

If a character poll is made, Cream would end at the bottom, and it would only consolidate her exclusion from the series.

That's because she's hated in the core Sonic fandom, a lot.

Though, she still has a fandom, and as you can see from the comments on twitter, many people miss her (and I met some players in Speed Battle with "Cream" in the nickname). The point is, I think that Cream is a character that a lot of people like but many don't know they like her, or they don't want to accept it because they are too embarrassed of liking a cute little girly character; that's why she is always bashed and gets at the bottom of the polls, but when she's missing, people complain about her absence.

I think that characters like Cream are necessary to the series, as much as the edgy and cool ones... it adds to the variety of the cast. other series have similar characters and nobody complain: Mario has Toadette, and she's a main stay, she appears in multiple games, even as playable occasionally (In Captain Toad she's even a main character and has her own story arc).

And by the way, as someone who likes Cream as a character, I'm still a bit happy for what's happening, because while she has been excluded from the game (probably), it's also true that because of this, a lot of people are demonstrating love and care for the character and are voicing their opinion to Sega that they want her to stay as part of the cast.

I hope the feedback will be listened for future games.

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For all this talk, its also worth bringing up what "kinds" of characters you would actually want in a Kart racer with this much jabbering going on between racers. Her being left off the roster could have more to do with the idea that 90% of her quips would involve her apologizing to the other racers, or voicing concern to the aggression's around her.

 

It could be that her personality just didn't fit the theme, so they went in a different direction.

 

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45 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

It could be that her personality just didn't fit the theme, so they went in a different direction.

How is the theme any different from Sonic Riders?

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4 hours ago, Iko said:

If a character poll is made, Cream would end at the bottom, and it would only consolidate her exclusion from the series.

That's because she's hated in the core Sonic fandom, a lot.

Though, she still has a fandom, and as you can see from the comments on twitter, many people miss her (and I met some players in Speed Battle with "Cream" in the nickname). The point is, I think that Cream is a character that a lot of people like but many don't know they like her, or they don't want to accept it because they are too embarrassed of liking a cute little girly character; that's why she is always bashed and gets at the bottom of the polls, but when she's missing, people complain about her absence.

I think that characters like Cream are necessary to the series, as much as the edgy and cool ones... it adds to the variety of the cast. other series have similar characters and nobody complain: Mario has Toadette, and she's a main stay, she appears in multiple games, even as playable occasionally (In Captain Toad she's even a main character and has her own story arc).

And by the way, as someone who likes Cream as a character, I'm still a bit happy for what's happening, because while she has been excluded from the game (probably), it's also true that because of this, a lot of people are demonstrating love and care for the character and are voicing their opinion to Sega that they want her to stay as part of the cast.

I hope the feedback will be listened for future games.

While the belief of people not wanting to admit to liking a cute girl character is a neat thought

 

I think the reason people don't like is because she's an annoying child characters. And a lot of people get cynical about that. Trust me, if tails was introduced later, people would hate him. They accept tails because he's the " annoying child " they grew up with. 

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41 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

While the belief of people not wanting to admit to liking a cute girl character is a neat thought

 

I think the reason people don't like is because she's an annoying child characters. And a lot of people get cynical about that. Trust me, if tails was introduced later, people would hate him. They accept tails because he's the " annoying child " they grew up with. 

She was really only annoying in Sonic x. Here voice from Generations is a lot better than the whispery voice she had in X.

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1 hour ago, SpongicX said:

She was really only annoying in Sonic x. Here voice from Generations is a lot better than the whispery voice she had in X.

You underestimate the label of annoying child, some people all it takes is one time. For some, no times, just being a child is annoying enough. 

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6 hours ago, Edward850 said:

How is the theme any different from Sonic Riders?

Cream wasn't a part of the story mode for the first two games and the third is a narrative clusterbomb... So it doesn't count XD 

But from a mid race banter angle, that's not something that was played up in Riders wheras here it is very prominent. How the characters interact with each other mid race will shape opinions and measure charm so they need to gauge who they want to put where and why. Cream being so polite night work against her there. 

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On 6/24/2018 at 6:41 AM, jgcatindig said:

Seriously, Cream's characterization needs to get in with the times. Hell, just...use her more. 

 

I am still very effing salty over the decision. They rather have a meme character than an actual one.

I would be surprised but this is the same company who produced a game where the other to playable characters were an alternate version of the main character and a blank slate that the player has to create instead of the various characters who haven’t seen action in years.

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Hold on a minute. Big may be associated with meme man, but he has actual character, a rather sweet one too. 

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I agree with Kotaku when they say this game could be a lot weirder with tracks and characters, the lack of content is sad considering Transformed was also a 40 dollars game, hopefully it delivers crazier tracks because Wisp Circuit looks really basic, and more characters and modes, but I like the gameplay so far. I would like if Sumo took more time to polish it, until next year perhaps. Although we can't judge it yet, the E3 demo was likely an alpha build with a tutorial track.

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I think Wisp Circuit is really dull when compared to something like Moo Moo Meadows. That's a really basic, beginner track but it also has more charm and challenge with the cows and moles.

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Charm is the least of Sumo's worries. The problem with Wisp circuit is that it has to stack up against Transformed stellar tracks which not only took place on downright whimsical locations (aircraft carriers, warzones ect) - but almost all of theme features some outlandish stage mechanic or failing that nuked the entire race track to kingdom come by lap three. Wisp circuit just pales in comparison as a ho-hum beginners level - and thats before you even start to consider that Transformed had a larger nostalgia pool to pull from.

As far as basic tracks go, I think Wisp Circuit actually looks pretty good. Its got more branching paths and winding paths than you typically would ever see in an introductory track... its just not special enough to stand out against the spectre of Transformed.

 

I mean - compare it to Ocean View. Not only was the scenery themed after the level - but you were actually forced to contend with the level specific set pieces iconic to the environment. You had to weave through the rolling stone talismans, fight over waves generated by the giant magikarp chopper and time your jumps to hop scotch across the square platforms for shortcuts. Wisp Circuit painfully lacks any of what made Planet Wisp special. It sorely needs a dash through some meadows - snaking around some tall grass, or some giant buzzsaw hazards from Eggman's equipment. Something tangible to make the level feel more alive.  

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Yeah. I hate to admit it but yeah. This roster is pretty strange and it falls short of a couple of characters for no real reason aside from sticking to the admittedly, kind of arbitrary team formating going on here. The one coarse we've seen doesn't do much to make itself stand out as an off-shoot of Planet Wisp by utilizing the tropes and gimmicks it had to it's advantage. You'd think I'd be even more bummed out by this considering I don't particularly care about Planet Wisp all that much. In general it did very little for me so seeing it return so many times continues to elicit middling feelings from me.

Then there's the Team mechanic in general and the small worry about how the single player will handle it's AI. It's not something I'm too worried about considering the footage I've seen but it's something to consider that could be a downer when it didn't have to be.

Despite all this, I'm still looking forward to it quite a whole lot. I'm used to Sonic games having problems but the fact that these aren't game ruining problems for me is refreshing. However heavy or light the suspected influence Sonic Team has on this game may be, it's still not being made by them and thus I still think it's gonna be good, even if it may not live up to what Transformed accomplished.

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Well, who’s to say Cream wouldn’t have worked as Amy’s passenger, rather than an actual driver. 

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13 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Cream wasn't a part of the story mode for the first two games and the third is a narrative clusterbomb... So it doesn't count XD 

But from a mid race banter angle, that's not something that was played up in Riders wheras here it is very prominent. How the characters interact with each other mid race will shape opinions and measure charm so they need to gauge who they want to put where and why. Cream being so polite night work against her there. 

You can't pick and chose what counts and what doesn't based on what you like or not.

Regardless, considering what has been shown of the game thus far, it stands that in-game banter is most assuredly not key focus of TSR. The characters don't really communicate (they just appear to have canned lines to actions), and least anybody bring up Tails again it stands to reason the developers aren't really focusing on dialogue all that much.

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1 hour ago, Edward850 said:

You can't pick and chose what counts and what doesn't based on what you like or not.

That was a joke dude lol

 

1 hour ago, Edward850 said:

Regardless, considering what has been shown of the game thus far, it stands that in-game banter is most assuredly not key focus of TSR. The characters don't really communicate (they just appear to have canned lines to actions), and least anybody bring up Tails again it stands to reason the developers aren't really focusing on dialogue all that much.

I disagree. Canned lines or not, quite a few of what we have seen (i.e. Tails) are tailored to the opposition (Messed up your makeup Rouge - Who's your Daddy Shadow ect). Cream could have been exempted on the grounds of her lines not straying too far from (I'm sorry for this Mr. Sonic - or - I hope that wasn't too rough for Mr. Knuckles)... just doesn't have the same vibe y'know.

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Just now, Sega DogTagz said:

Charm is the least of Sumo's worries. The problem with Wisp circuit is that it has to stack up against Transformed stellar tracks which not only took place on downright whimsical locations (aircraft carriers, warzones ect) - but almost all of theme features some outlandish stage mechanic or failing that nuked the entire race track to kingdom come by lap three. Wisp circuit just pales in comparison as a ho-hum beginners level - and thats before you even start to consider that Transformed had a larger nostalgia pool to pull from.

As far as basic tracks go, I think Wisp Circuit actually looks pretty good. Its got more branching paths and winding paths than you typically would ever see in an introductory track... its just not special enough to stand out against the spectre of Transformed.

 

I mean - compare it to Ocean View. Not only was the scenery themed after the level - but you were actually forced to contend with the level specific set pieces iconic to the environment. You had to weave through the rolling stone talismans, fight over waves generated by the giant magikarp chopper and time your jumps to hop scotch across the square platforms for shortcuts. Wisp Circuit painfully lacks any of what made Planet Wisp special. It sorely needs a dash through some meadows - snaking around some tall grass, or some giant buzzsaw hazards from Eggman's equipment. Something tangible to make the level feel more alive.  

Wisp circuit has a better lay out than Sonic Transformed first track with it having a loop just to make it look more like a Sonic stage wisp circuit has a audience so its not going to be in the wild lands like Ocean View.

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3 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Cream could have been exempted on the grounds of her lines not straying too far from (I'm sorry for this Mr. Sonic - or - I hope that wasn't too rough for Mr. Knuckles)... just doesn't have the same vibe y'know.

Then she says other things? It's not that hard. Again, she's already had dialogue in the riders games, Sonic Battle, spent a chunk of Sonic X sassing Knuckles...

One shouldn't need a 5 page essay to explain that canned dialogue in a racing game can be whatever you want it to be, nor explain why one character can or can't be used because she happens to be more reserved than others. Polite does not mean non-competitive after all.

The notion that characters can't be in certain things because of arbitrary criteria is a strange one to bring up, and frankly not something I saw myself talking about at length, even in regards to a single character. So I'll add this note; The idea that you can't do things because one specific thing doesn't entirely fit is a dangerous concept to game development and design. The art of creative design is to overcome any such hurdles, whether it be programming, gameplay, art, or in this case character design (and lets face it, in this oddly specific case the hurdle is minor at best). If game development didn't work like that, we'd all still be playing Tetris.

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29 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

Then she says other things? It's not that hard. Again, she's already had dialogue in the riders games, Sonic Battle, spent a chunk of Sonic X sassing Knuckles...

One shouldn't need a 5 page essay to explain that canned dialogue in a racing game can be whatever you want it to be, nor explain why one character can or can't be used because she happens to be more reserved than others. Polite does not mean non-competitive after all.

The notion that characters can't be in certain things because of arbitrary criteria is a strange one to bring up, and frankly not something I saw myself talking about at length, even in regards to a single character. So I'll add this note; The idea that you can't do things because one specific thing doesn't entirely fit is a dangerous concept to game development and design. The art of creative design is to overcome any such hurdles, whether it be programming, gameplay, art, or in this case character design. If game development didn't work like that, we'd all still be playing Tetris.

This, I don't think her not being competitive was the reason or a good reason to keep her out. Does that mean that every dialog line in this game is good? No they all frankly sound not great. That said Though I don't think that was a restriction for cream and I agree with you. To keep shit locked down in very specific cages I would have the weird anime sonic adventure games that I like. 

I just don't think creams in because a lot of people don't like cream, but a lot of people like chao. And she hasn't been memed out and loved by staff like big

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1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

That was a joke dude lol

 

I disagree. Canned lines or not, quite a few of what we have seen (i.e. Tails) are tailored to the opposition (Messed up your makeup Rouge - Who's your Daddy Shadow ect). Cream could have been exempted on the grounds of her lines not straying too far from (I'm sorry for this Mr. Sonic - or - I hope that wasn't too rough for Mr. Knuckles)... just doesn't have the same vibe y'know.

I kinda expect Big to be saying things like “Gotta go fast!” to Sonic, “Do YOU know the way?” to Knuckles, “Owwie, the edges on you!” to Shadow...

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8 hours ago, Edward850 said:

Then she says other things? It's not that hard. Again, she's already had dialogue in the riders games, Sonic Battle, spent a chunk of Sonic X sassing Knuckles...

One shouldn't need a 5 page essay to explain that canned dialogue in a racing game can be whatever you want it to be, nor explain why one character can or can't be used because she happens to be more reserved than others. Polite does not mean non-competitive after all.

The notion that characters can't be in certain things because of arbitrary criteria is a strange one to bring up, and frankly not something I saw myself talking about at length, even in regards to a single character. So I'll add this note; The idea that you can't do things because one specific thing doesn't entirely fit is a dangerous concept to game development and design. The art of creative design is to overcome any such hurdles, whether it be programming, gameplay, art, or in this case character design (and lets face it, in this oddly specific case the hurdle is minor at best). If game development didn't work like that, we'd all still be playing Tetris.

Nobody said the developers arnt allowed to take risks or that cream absolutely has to be pegionhold into her trope but on the other side of the same coin there is such a thing as forcing a round peg into a square hole. 

 

We know cream is light on competive nature just like we know she is excessibly polite. In a game staring a roster squeeze in the face, I don't think you can just dismiss that. Had the roster been larger, like say 18 or 20 I think there is enough wiggle room to play around it. 

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15301119009211562325425.thumb.jpg.6113c7b74bb33bc90fc99d1c3be04c26.jpg

Presenting...my Team Dimension concept. 

 

My inspirations:

Silver: Tesla Roadster S + Goodyear prototype tire

Blaze: Cayenne Rally car

Cream: Fiat 500 Roadster

 

Classification:

Silver: Speed/Technique

Blaze: Power/Speed

Cream: Technique

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