Character and Circuit Discussion for Team Sonic Racing 🏁

[Red Hot Jack]

2 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

In what world was the ASR series more generic than this?

Part of the reason people beg for old SEGA IP to return so much is because they were unique and exciting. Stuff like Jet Set Radio, Burning Rangers, Skies of Arcadia - it was all stuff ahead of its time and that you weren’t gonna find anywhere else (unless there’s some other Space Fire Fighters game I’m not aware of). And it showed through in ASRT, with the huge variety in level tropes and track design structures. 

At most I can say ASRT had more generic items - but the JP version took steps to address that, such as replacing the blowfish with a garbage Puyo. And then they added more on top of that, such as getting SEGA legend Mitsuyoshi in as a commentator for races. 

...shame none of that stuff got patched into our version actually.

So tell me how reducing that variety down to just 7 locales from a single series, as well as netuering the art style and in some cases just settling for “this is a new locale, it’s... ice and a volcano” makes it less generic? It’s not more focused, it’s just more generic. If you want examples of non-generic Sonic Racing games, you’ve got Riders and even bloody R right there.

They are not any more generic than the Ice stages from Billy Hatcher, these are the usual Green Hill and Seaside Hill, it's not like I prefer them to a Skies or JSR track, but they have a career themselves bigger than those entire titles. Plus all the things I mentioned, make it look like Sonic, even though it doesn't feel like Sonic, I'm wondering what's missing.

[DabigRG]

15 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

It clearly does not work, since there are 12 players in a race, there should be a bigger choice, at least 24 characters. I do not exclude the possibility they use Sega characters, as they already have the models from previous ASR games (but this is a new console generation, so I'm not sure), and Sumo loves those characters, the story is not a problem, they can just be extras, like there were in Riders.

That's sorta my thought as well, though not necessarily with other SEGA characters.

15 hours ago, Rowl said:

Been now a Sonic only game was actually one of the biggest marketing tools for this game. Why should they now bring in some other Sega characters as a little extra?

As DLC.

12 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

IF there are more Sonic characters, either as secret characters or pre-order bonus, I think we should expect the Babylons, after all they showed those pins and the Rogues were included. 

The Rogues have been out for a while and are mostly a thing sequestered into their own context, so I can see them being added as well.

[Red Hot Jack]

Oh by the way, I forgot to mention, I believe the decision of making this an entirely Sonic thing was made by SEGA after the reception of Transformed, while great, people were demanding a lot more Sonic content, especially characters, so Sumo made that famous character poll, they listened (aside from bringing Nack back in a racing game) and obviously another portion of fans got screwed over.

[Tracker_TD]

People weren’t demanding more Sonic content though. The most popular characters on that poll were the likes of Ryo from Shenmue and even Hatsune Miku, not stuff like Big the Cat or Orbot and Cubot. I do recall Nack being on there, but evidently not even that’s worked out with the refocus.

I feel fairly confident in saying literally no fan of SEGA beyond just Sonic wanted Sonic-only. Sonic-only fans may have wanted that, but that much is bloody obvious, and only listening to them feels daft in light of how successful ASRT was. This goes even moreso with SEGA’s recent efforts to bolster its not Sonic IP such as Yakuza, Puyo, and Valkyria.

Shit, even Iizuka’s said that if anything, ASRT should’ve had less Sonic focus. This isn’t to say there was no desire for a Sonic Racing spin-off but I think people had more in mind when saying that than “a naff kart racer that fails to live up to the last one”, and more along the lines of “if it’s Sonic only maybe they’ll let him run again”.

[Pawn]

1 hour ago, I Love Sticks said:

Oh by the way, I forgot to mention, I believe the decision of making this an entirely Sonic thing was made by SEGA after the reception of Transformed, while great, people were demanding a lot more Sonic content, especially characters, so Sumo made that famous character poll, they listened (aside from bringing Nack back in a racing game) and obviously another portion of fans got screwed over.

Iizuka explained this game came about because he wanted a more causal experience that the All-Stars series doesn't provide. The game's gimmick is a way for kids to play with their parents, for example. It has nothing to do with a demand for Sonic content.

I also don't really understand the claim that the Billy Hatcher track was "generic"... I mean, compare its art direction to that of the Sonic ice stage:

 

[Red Hot Jack]

22 minutes ago, Pawn said:

Iizuka explained this game came about because he wanted a more causal experience that the All-Stars series doesn't provide. The game's gimmick is a way for kids to play with their parents, for example. It has nothing to do with a demand for Sonic content.

I also don't really understand the claim that the Billy Hatcher track was "generic"... I mean, compare its art direction to that of the Sonic ice stage:

  Hide contents

Okay but you used literally the worst screen of that latter track (there is a boat section, fire vs ice background, which is something at least), lol, I remember Track's comment "too much ice" when we saw those 3 seconds of the stage at Comic Con. Plus I was talking about the ASR version of the Billy Hatcher stage. But the first is actually a very good point, SEGA and Iizuka probably wanted a more kid friendly game, which resulted in Sonic only.

I also think, besides the online petitions about SEGA characters, and the character poll exclusive to Sonic characters, that... they just wanted to do a different thing, you know, after 2-3 games of SEGA stuff, maybe they were just thinking "If we do a SEGA themed roster one more time, it'll probably be the same characters we already had for 2 games in a row, unless we do a giant roster of 40 characters, so maybe let's try to use a different cast." And obviously the bigger crowd wants more Sonic content, kids and fans, I never said a "Sonic only" game, I'm content with SEGA content too, but in this case they tried to please most fans (that's why I say put some SEGA stuff too, so we please SEGA fans as well).

[Pawn]

3 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

Okay but you used literally the worst screen of that latter track (there is a boat section, fire vs ice background, which is something at least), lol, I remember Track's comment "too much ice" when we saw those 3 seconds of the stage at Comic Con. Plus I was talking about the ASR version of the Billy Hatcher stage. But the first is actually a very good point, SEGA and Iizuka probably wanted a more kid friendly game, which resulted in Sonic only.

I also think, besides the online petitions about SEGA characters, and the character poll exclusive to Sonic characters, that... they just wanted to do a different thing, you know, after 2-3 games of SEGA stuff, maybe they were just thinking "If we do a SEGA themed roster one more time, it'll probably be the same characters we already had for 2 games in a row, unless we do a giant roster of 40 characters, so maybe let's try to use a different cast." And obviously the bigger crowd wants more Sonic content, kids and fans, I never said a "Sonic only" game, I'm content with SEGA content too, but in this case they tried to please most fans (that's why I say put some SEGA stuff too, so we please SEGA fans as well).

I used that screenshot because it typifies the track pretty well, in that nothing particular stands out to me as being unique to the Sonic series. Fire and ice have been thrown together in many platformer franchises and the boat section still looks pretty standard for any ice level. Meanwhile there are many elements making up the visual design of the Billy Hatcher stages (like textures, buildings and objects) in both ASR games that take direct inspiration from the IP.

As I suggested before, I don't think it was ever a choice between making an ASR or Sonic game. Iizuka's own words tell us they wanted to make a racing game for families and their biggest franchise happens to make the most sense for that.

[Dr. Detective]

7 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

Shit, even Iizuka’s said that if anything, ASRT should’ve had less Sonic focus. This isn’t to say there was no desire for a Sonic Racing spin-off but I think people had more in mind when saying that than “a naff kart racer that fails to live up to the last one”, and more along the lines of “if it’s Sonic only maybe they’ll let him run again”.

Well, it kinda was. They took Big away and didn't replace him with anyone else so there was one less Sonic character than in the last game.

Haha. Ha.

...

[Fire-N-Space]

Just now, Pawn said:

I also don't really understand the claim that the Billy Hatcher track was "generic"... I mean, compare its art direction to that of the Sonic ice stage:

  Hide contents

What makes Billy Hatcher's track not generic lots of racing games have you racing through a town they even use snow as well its less often in racing games that they let you race in the frozen tundra.

I remember Iizuka saying there hasn't been a Sonic game in a while that lets you play with the other characters and that's why there are only Sonic characters which I'm happy for as I get to play as Amy and hear her speak.  

[Tracker_TD]

2 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

I remember Iizuka saying there hasn't been a Sonic game in a while that lets you play with the other characters and that's why there are only Sonic characters which I'm happy for as I get to play as Amy and hear her speak.  

You could already do that in the last two. 

[Fire-N-Space]

Just now, Tracker_TD said:

You could already do that in the last two. 

Team Sonic Racing improves Transformed voice recordings where Amy just made grunts now she will communicate with all the other racers with no reused lines.  

[DabigRG]

14 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

 Plus I was talking about the ASR version of the Billy Hatcher stage. But the first is actually a very good point, SEGA and Iizuka probably wanted a more kid friendly game, which resulted in Sonic only.

 

Because when people think not kid friendly, think of Billy Hatcher first.

7 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

I remember Iizuka saying there hasn't been a Sonic game in a while that lets you play with the other characters and that's why there are only Sonic characters which I'm happy for as I get to play as Amy and hear her speak.  

That's a noble motivation for making A game.

 

Btw, honey, I literally just realized that that's Ms. Mountain.

[Polkadi~☆]

1 hour ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Team Sonic Racing improves Transformed voice recordings where Amy just made grunts now she will communicate with all the other racers with no reused lines.  

She definitely had lines, but many of the voices were drowned out by things like music. And they weren't substantial lines either.

This game has voice lines in the foreground, so it's just easier to notice now.

[kalion]

On 10/20/2018 at 2:24 PM, Tracker_TD said:

In what world was the ASR series more generic than this?

At most I can say ASRT had more generic items - but the JP version took steps to address that, such as replacing the blowfish with a garbage Puyo. And then they added more on top of that, such as getting SEGA legend Mitsuyoshi in as a commentator for races. 

...shame none of that stuff got patched into our version actually.

So tell me how reducing that variety down to just 7 locales from a single series, as well as netuering the art style and in some cases just settling for “this is a new locale, it’s... ice and a volcano” makes it less generic? It’s not more focused, it’s just more generic. If you want examples of non-generic Sonic Racing games, you’ve got Riders and even bloody R right there.

It's the New Super Mario Bros of Racers!

That right there would be a cool simple mod for Transformed if you could do it..save it for May tho'

[Red Hot Jack]

I believe they should add more characters, not saying that it will happen but, with 12 players in a race, likely unlocked from the start, you can't have just 3 unlockables, you gotta have choice in the roster, they did the same thing with Transformed, I remember Steve Lycett saying they had to increase the number of players up to 10 so they were asked to expand the roster, which resulted in MeeMee, Gum, Reala and Pudding being added. Plus in a recent interview, they didn't want to discuss the number of characters in TSR, all the more reason to speculate.

At this point I would say the Babylon Rogues are a likely thing, since we have seen them in pins and they fit the team gimmick, it would make sense as they were protagonists in older Sonic racing games, so why not? And the other team would be SEGA themed, possibly Ulala-NiGHTS-AiAi like in Riders 1, I would be okay with that. Now if they included even one more team, it would get the roster up to 24, which is a decent number, I'm not sure what this third team could be, either "Team Surprise" (or Team "whatever") Espio-Cream-Sticks, "Team Villains" Infinite-Chaos-Zavok, or "Team Classic" Classic Sonic-Ray-Mighty.

I know it's hard to think we are getting this many characters, probably not, but speculating is fun.

[Multikaris]

17 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

I believe they should add more characters, not saying that it will happen but, with 12 players in a race, likely unlocked from the start, you can't have just 3 unlockables, you gotta have choice in the roster, they did the same thing with Transformed, I remember Steve Lycett saying they had to increase the number of players up to 10 so they were asked to expand the roster, which resulted in MeeMee, Gum, Reala and Pudding being added. Plus in a recent interview, they didn't want to discuss the number of characters in TSR, all the more reason to speculate.

At this point I would say the Babylon Rogues are a likely thing, since we have seen them in pins and they fit the team gimmick, it would make sense as they were protagonists in older Sonic racing games, so why not? And the other team would be SEGA themed, possibly Ulala-NiGHTS-AiAi like in Riders 1, I would be okay with that. Now if they included even one more team, it would get the roster up to 24, which is a decent number, I'm not sure what this third team could be, either "Team Surprise" (or Team "whatever") Espio-Cream-Sticks, "Team Villains" Infinite-Chaos-Zavok, or "Team Classic" Classic Sonic-Ray-Mighty.

I know it's hard to think we are getting this many characters, probably not, but speculating is fun.

And then Charmy-Tangle-Tikal (Team Surprise II)? 

[DabigRG]

I getting back to the Bumblekast with #71(since I haven't seen Deadpool 2 yet) and I guess now  would be a good time to trot this one out there [again]: If you had some say on this game, who would include as characters for the teams and what sort of stages would you want to reimagine for this game?

[Multikaris]

19 hours ago, DabigRG said:

I getting back to the Bumblekast with #71(since I haven't seen Deadpool 2 yet) and I guess now  would be a good time to trot this one out there [again]: If you had some say on this game, who would include as characters for the teams and what sort of stages would you want to reimagine for this game?

Rose: Amy (S), Tikal (T), Blaze (P)

 

Unsure about Chaotix Team, plus maybe having around 8 teams. Try to include as many characters as possible. Not all teams feature in the story, though. 

Stages included would include a “Green (as in eco-friendly) Cup” with at least 1 track per past racing series. 

[Silvereyes]

One thing I do find interesting is about the DLC the game will have. The past 2 ASR had DLC characters, but they just came seperately. With TSR's team focus, then presumably if they do go down the DLC route wouldn't the DLC characters need to be in packs of 3? I wouldn't mind that to be honest, I'm not a fan of bitesized DLC. I'd rather see DLC that is more akin to old expansion packs, like say having 2 new teams of characters with say 2 new zones, each with 3 tracks a piece.

I do agree though, this game definetly could use a little bit more content. I don't know what the US pricing is but UK pricing has a console version at £35, which is a little lower than the standard AAA £45, but even still TSR just screams budget game right now, the sortof game you wait for a price drop on like in a Steam sale. The notion that the game might only have 15 or 18 characters is pretty disappointing really. I feel like this sortof thing needs to have 24 to have a sized roster that is fairly acceptable.

I don't think TSR will be bad though honestly, so much as I don't think it deserves its asking price. It wouldn't surprise me if TSR is seen more fairly in a couple years when you can pick it up cheap and there is no hype behind it.

[Sega DogTagz]

21 hours ago, silvereye27 said:

With TSR's team focus, then presumably if they do go down the DLC route wouldn't the DLC characters need to be in packs of 3?

Thematically it would make sense to introduce new racers as teams of 3, but they don't have to. We already have confirmation that you can mix and match racers with no restrictions to type or team allegiance in other modes outside of the story mode - which means unless the DLC expansion is a story driven expansion, you wouldn't need to cater to the 3 man setup. You could introduce 1 new characters, or 5 and not upset the balance as players are free to choose whatever they want for their teams.

[Silvereyes]

5 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Thematically it would make sense to introduce new racers as teams of 3, but they don't have to. We already have confirmation that you can mix and match racers with no restrictions to type or team allegiance in other modes outside of the story mode - which means unless the DLC expansion is a story driven expansion, you wouldn't need to cater to the 3 man setup. You could introduce 1 new characters, or 5 and not upset the balance as players are free to choose whatever they want for their teams. 

I guess so. I just feel like with individual racers sold seperately, it leads to more nickel and diming in my honest opinion. They don't have to do packs of 3, but I'd vastly prefer it over packs of 1.

[DabigRG]

On 1/8/2019 at 8:36 PM, DabigRG said:

I getting back to the Bumblekast with #71(since I haven't seen Deadpool 2 yet) and I guess now  would be a good time to trot this one out there [again]: If you had some say on this game, who would include as characters for the teams and what sort of stages would you want to reimagine for this game?

So two existing teams I would've added would've added would be the Babylon Rogues and a Team Zeti. The Rogues are the obvious characters to add since they originate from racing games to begin with, while the Deadly Six were practically asking for appearances in spinoff games such as this; both would also serve the purpose of having more antagonist characters to the game. I'd personally assume Team Zeti would obviously end up being Zavok & Zazz with Zor as their technique character. With that said, part of me kinda wants to entertain the notion of having Zeena and Zomom as contenders since the former would be another female character while the latter probably wouldn't really fit elsewhere in the franchise unless all of the Zeti were playable anyway--and that'd cost six slots!

When it comes to the existing teams, I think it's obvious that I would've left Team Rose and Team Chaotix [mostly] untouched "Because We're Sonic Heroes!" And they were quite literally arranged and designed/reimagined to fit this type of setup in the first place.

The Chao Quartet would still be in the game for the same reasons as the Zeti, though figuring out another team for them is a little odd. I suppose I could bend the rules by having Tikal be a speed type to have Chaos on the same team, though I'm not sure what the former was in Runners with Blaze in mind.

Either way, I think a handicap that has to be recognized after a point is the fact that there aren't that many characters who could act as Power types.

[DabigRG]

So on the topic of Zavok apparently just being there, I do wanna say I might've replaced him with Zomom if Eggman needed someone else to be the Power Type. As I mentioned before, of the six Zeti, Zomom is arguably the least likely to be picked for anything without the whole group due to arguably being the least appealing/interesting of them: 

• Zavok is the leader of the group, has the most unique design among them, and is a simultaneously different yet similar non-Eggman antagonist
• Master Zik is probably the oldest character in the series, has flat out psychic powers, and a fruit motif, plus his inherent relevance to the group's origins
• Zazz is practically the group's feral mascot that's always up for a fight, which is not that different in attitude from Sonic or Knuckles
• Zor has a distinct color scheme, a contrasting mindset to much of the series themes, and is roughly the size of most Sonic character, if slightly smaller
• Zeena is a female villain and one with a mostly non-typical color scheme

By contrast, Zomom isn't particularly important, cool, archetypal, complex, attractive(however you wanna pick that), arguably unorthodox, or maybe even that offensive. He can be deemed a pretty unremarkable and/or an opposite colored, antagonistic counterpart of Big the Cat. Which is why him being on Team Eggman instead would've been a bigger surprise and a more out there pick.

Granted, designing a car for him is admittedly a bizarre task, but that's ultimately another reason why he'd be an interesting choice--you'd have to get creative to give him something to ride.

1. Like Zavok, the first choice for designing a ride for him would be the mech Eggman made him; only problem is said mech is a weird, pink and lime Oni head made of mathlink cubes. Barring having him literally make a car by rearranging the cubes or maybe literally sitting in the mouth with wheels attached to the head, I don't think that would fly.
2. The second option is to reference the game he debuted in by using elements of the levels he was fought in. Perhaps his car could be made of different animals located in Desert Ruins--maybe even literally. A Sandworm with Cactus Balls for wheels could be pretty good.
3. And the third option, and probably the most option conclusion to come to character-wise, is for his car to be made out of food--literally! It might even triple as a reference to Sweet Mountain and maybe Sugar Lane, depending on what's used. Just to make a quick suggestion off the top of my head, maybe he could go for a monster truck look using the potroasts he eats as wheels under a giant sandwich.

Refuge in Audacity is something of a consistent theme there, as you can see. Oh, also, his Yellow skin with red tipped horns would technically similar color scheme till making him stand out visually.

[kalion]

23 hours ago, DabigRG said:

So on the topic of Zavok apparently just being there, I do wanna say I might've replaced him with Zomom if Eggman needed someone else to be the Power Type. As I mentioned before, of the six Zeti, Zomom is arguably the least likely to be picked for anything without the whole group due to arguably being the least appealing/interesting of them: 

• Zavok is the leader of the group, has the most unique design among them, and is a simultaneously different yet similar non-Eggman antagonist
• Master Zik is probably the oldest character in the series, has flat out psychic powers, and a fruit motif, plus his inherent relevance to the group's origins
• Zazz is practically the group's feral mascot that's always up for a fight, which is not that different in attitude from Sonic or Knuckles
• Zor has a distinct color scheme, a contrasting mindset to much of the series themes, and is roughly the size of most Sonic character, if slightly smaller
• Zeena is a female villain and one with a mostly non-typical color scheme

By contrast, Zomom isn't particularly important, cool, archetypal, complex, attractive(however you wanna pick that), arguably unorthodox, or maybe even that offensive. He can be deemed a pretty unremarkable and/or an opposite colored, antagonistic counterpart of Big the Cat. Which is why him being on Team Eggman instead would've been a bigger surprise and a more out there pick.

Granted, designing a car for him is admittedly a bizarre task, but that's ultimately another reason why he'd be an interesting choice--you'd have to get creative to give him something to ride.

1. Like Zavok, the first choice for designing a ride for him would be the mech Eggman made him; only problem is said mech is a weird, pink and lime Oni head made of mathlink cubes. Barring having him literally make a car by rearranging the cubes or maybe literally sitting in the mouth with wheels attached to the head, I don't think that would fly.
2. The second option is to reference the game he debuted in by using elements of the levels he was fought in. Perhaps his car could be made of different animals located in Desert Ruins--maybe even literally. A Sandworm with Cactus Balls for wheels could be pretty good.
3. And the third option, and probably the most option conclusion to come to character-wise, is for his car to be made out of food--literally! It might even triple as a reference to Sweet Mountain and maybe Sugar Lane, depending on what's used. Just to make a quick suggestion off the top of my head, maybe he could go for a monster truck look using the potroasts he eats as wheels under a giant sandwich.

Refuge in Audacity is something of a consistent theme there, as you can see. Oh, also, his Yellow skin with red tipped horns would technically similar color scheme till making him stand out visually.

One of the main jokes with him was the Giant Sandwich, mate.

It's as simple as it gets, he rides in a Subway Sub resembling his Sandwich from Lost World.

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, kalion said:

One of the main jokes with him was the Giant Sandwich, mate.

It's as simple as it gets, he rides in a Subway Sub resembling his Sandwich from Lost World.

...There's a car called a subway sub?