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Amy's Sidekicks, the Success of Tails, and the Ever Growing Team Rose

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27 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

What's wrong with appealing to girls anyway? Why can't they enjoy Sonic like the rest of us?

It doesn't have to be strictly action geared for boys.

To add to this, I don't think that people have any obligation to only like characters of their same gender. Like, what's stopping a guy from liking a female character, or viceversa?

Isn't the character's personality, their actions, their interactions with others and such other things what ultimately gives a reason for people to find something appealing in them?

That being said, even if Amy is designed to appeal to girls, that doesn't mean that guys can't like the character, and if the argument is something like "but what will others think of me if I happen to like and enjoy this pink girly character?" then the problem lies not with the character of Amy, but with that person's own insecurities, allowing others to say what can be enjoyed and what can't.

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On 25/4/2018 at 12:55 AM, Skull Leader said:

I don't think it is so much that they never shown how Amy and Cream became friends (heck, even with Sonic and Tails all they've done in SA1 and X is show how they meet but not how they bonded) but rather that Cream essentially had not much to offer to foil Amy due to how she is, to put it short, a watered down version of Amy with none of her flaws (or any noticeable flaw for that matter).

This debate started years ago on the Sega Forums and apparently is still going on: I strongly disagree with this.

Just because they are both girly girls doesn't mean they are clones of each other; the two have nothing in common aside of being girls and both having emotions.

Personality wise the two characters are the opposite, one is very extrovert and impulsive with an obsession for her love interest, the other is calm and introvert, and is absolutely uninterested in anything related to love. The two are nothing alike.

As for the thing about flaws, I don't think Sonic characters need personality flaws; Sonic himself is pretty much a gary stu with simple personality and little to no flaw (the only hint of flaw being in one cutscene of Sonic Lost World when he was unable to save Tails, and if I remember well, fans didn't like it very much).

This said, I don't believe that Cream is flawless: gameplay excluded (where almost everyone is overpowered), she's mostly said to be physically weak and unexperienced in combat/adventures; she's also too young and not completely independent, she almost always needs someone older that helps her or guides her; she's way too emotive, to the point that when things go wrong, she just demotivates herself and cries (something that the overly optimist Amy would never do); she's also introvert, does not have the  charisma or the skills to lead a group or give orders to other people, aside her little friend Cheese. As you see, all those traits are flaws, and none of them are compatible with Amy.

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Back on the topic, I think that Amy doesn't need a sidekick, because the whole point of the character is being Sonic's girlfriend, or trying to be, and a third character (between Sonic and Amy) would just interfere with the relationship and feel forced.

As for Cream, aside of comics or other media, and possibly the fandom, there is no sign of her being Amy's sidekick or best friend, the two character just know each other, that's it. They are often grouped together in Team Rose because they are girls, just as simple as it looks.

I think there is a stronger link between Cream and Blaze than Cream and Amy, and I don't think Cream and Amy are compatible at all. For some reason, I would find more interesting (and hilarious) a brother&sister-like relation between Knuckles and her, given that Cream lives with a chao and likes to rise chao, chao are angel island/chaos related, and this may lead to a link between the two characters.

As for Amy, I kinda agree with what FFWF said, I think that if she's ever going to have a sidekick, it should be a "best friend" type, someone of the same age as her and who shares some passions with her, such as mode, shopping, stuff, sharing secrets each other (including dreamy talking about her beloved Sonic and how much she loves him). I can see someone like Honey the Cat to work this way (I know Honey is a crossover character, but it's the closest thing to what an Amy's best friend would look like). I doubt any other female character in the series has the requirements for such kind of relationship with Amy (especially Blaze), and anyway, as I said, I think a sidekick for her is mostly unneeded.

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34 minutes ago, Iko said:

...Sonic himself is pretty much a gary stu with simple personality and little to no flaw...

Sonic's "flaws" are being impatient, impulsive, arrogant, and cocky...

The negative side of these traits aren't the only thing that matter...but they are objectively character faults.

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And yet for all the supposed differences Cream didn't exactly brought anything new... and worse, basically took Amy's role as the civvie character that either befriended troubled characters (Blaze in Rush) or who gave speeches that delivered some truths that are needed to be heard (you can't tell me with a straight face that Cream's speech in Sonic Battle to one of Eggman's robots DIDN'T felt like a rip off of something Amy would had said, which a lot of people, except you, noticed back in the Sega forums) and which I believe was the biggest contributing factor to Amy being flanderized in the 2000's, which funnily enough, tended to happen when the rabbit was around.

Regarding friendships, I don't think that they have to be with characters that are the same/similar. Heck, a reason why Sonic and Tails used to work is because they where two characters with differences beyond just the extrovert/introvert thing that not just contrasted each other, but also where played in a way that displayed and emphasized the other's more endearing qualities, like how he saw Tails' twin tails as something that made the fox special instead of the object of mockery like those that bullied him did. In the case of Amy, the only girl I think covers that is Blaze, not to mention that in Sonic Rush it was Blaze who was impressed by Amy's openess with her feelings, something that would had contributed much more to Blaze's character development than what Cream (used only for being new) or Sonic (who has an almost obligatory interaction due to his protagonist status) had, on top of sharing the same passion when it came to caring for others, despite the distinct way they displayed it (Amy as warm and motherly, while Blaze is cold on the outside, like the snow that protects the grass underneath from the harsh winter) as well as their contrasting yet complementary differences not just in how they conduct themselves in their everyday life, but also their way of seeing the world, having something to offer to each other: Amy can learn from Blaze the things that she lacks to become the heroine she aspires to be in order to gain Sonic's respect (and heart) while Blaze from Amy would learn to not be afraid to be in touch with her emotions, because unlike what Blaze probably thinks, they don't make her weak but all the contrary. Isn't it funny how despite Blaze being this kick ass warrior princess, her shortcommings lie in the matters of the heart, while with Amy it is the exact opposite?

Now, not only do I think Cream was an unnecessary addition, both to Amy as sidekick as well as to the cast of characters, but also I think that whatever dynamic Cream was supposed to provide with Amy due to her being an introvert could had been much better played off with Tails, and not as a sidekick thing but as friends on equal footing, which along with Tails having someone that can provide that extra support he needs, especially with his self-confidence given how one of Amy's strengths as a character comes from her believing in others and supporting them, it would also had contributed in Amy having become a much closer part of the main group of characters instead of distancing her to make room for Knuckles, who is only there for pretty much promotional purposes at this point.

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The time when Amy got flanderized is the same time when everyone else got the exact same treatment as well, and it has nothing to do with Cream being around, because Cream was treated (and still is) as a clichè character as well, excluded some small exceptions such as, indeed, Sonic Rush.

That's not due to a character being around, but that's due to the overall writing becoming worse and worse.

In Sonic Rush Cream did awesomely, she was fitting in the story and the contrast between different personalities you are talking about in your post just worked fine, there was no need to force Amy in the role because she was more popular, in the same way, they used Marine in Rush Adventure instead of Cream and I have no problem with that, it's good to rotate the characters occasionally; anyway, Amy was in the game, with a smaller role but still present in the story, so Cream didn't replace anything.

I get that you dislike her and Knuckles, but saying that they're chosen over other characters for promotional reasons or being newer seems too much.

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Kinda sounds like a "Tails is The Techy" situation.

 

3 hours ago, Iko said:

This debate started years ago on the Sega Forums and apparently is still going on: I strongly disagree with this.

Just because they are both girly girls doesn't mean they are clones of each other; the two have nothing in common aside of being girls and both having emotions.

Personality wise the two characters are the opposite, one is very extrovert and impulsive with an obsession for her love interest, the other is calm and introvert, and is absolutely uninterested in anything related to love. The two are nothing alike.

I think he's mainly referring to the writer's tendency to write Amy as being more coquettish sometimes coinciding with Cream's presence. In which case, that's more of a writing issue than anything else, since it's totally possible to write Amy as being idealistic and/or fussy with or without Cream and vice versa, if need be.

3 hours ago, Iko said:

As for the thing about flaws, I don't think Sonic characters need personality flaws; Sonic himself is pretty much a gary stu with simple personality and little to no flaw (the only hint of flaw being in one cutscene of Sonic Lost World when he was unable to save Tails, and if I remember well, fans didn't like it very much).

Someone already commented on this I see, but I'll say my piece anyway: maybe in certain episodes/installments, but I generally disagree.

3 hours ago, Iko said:

This said, I don't believe that Cream is flawless: gameplay excluded (where almost everyone is overpowered), she's mostly said to be physically weak and unexperienced in combat/adventures; she's also too young and not completely independent, she almost always needs someone older that helps her or guides her; she's way too emotive, to the point that when things go wrong, she just demotivates herself and cries (something that the overly optimist Amy would never do); she's also introvert, does not have the  charisma or the skills to lead a group or give orders to other people, aside her little friend Cheese. As you see, all those traits are flaws, and none of them are compatible with Amy.

There's also her occasional tendency to absentmindedly insult/offend people, ironically enough.

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Does she ever actually do this?

 

Yes, even as early as Heroes. Rush has her do so twice and the Archie comic had a few toned down examples.

15 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

The one time I've seen her insult someone, it seemed intentional...on both ends.

Which was...?  :confused: 

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1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

Sonic X of course...

She insulted Chris by insult to Knuckles.

Uh, what episode was this? It's been years and I'm honestly not inclined to remember any "smaller" interactions she had with Chris.

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11 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

I don't know...mang.

It was when Chris was trying to convince them to trust Eggman. Before the 1st Super Sonic transformation.

Hm...well, it's not in that episode, I'll just have to take your word for it.

Also, not a big deal, but funny how Chris thinks he's being selfish when he only understandably questioned the idea of Sonic and Eggman working together.

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Just now, DabigRG said:

Yes, even as early as Heroes. Rush has her do so twice and the Archie comic had a few toned down examples.

Which was...?  :confused: 

Wait, Amy never absentmindedly insult/offend people in Heroes or Rush when did this happen?  (Whoops misread.)

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1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

...As sidekicks for Amy?

They do seem odd choices, but Sally at least I could see in the IDW comics as someone to leave the Resistance in the care of as a trusted confidant and commander in her own right. That's not really a sidekick though, although I do like seeing the two of them as close friends. As for Mina, I'd have to do some research on hers and Amy's relationship before I can really say anything.

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I don't recall Amy and Mina ever ha ing any particular interaction, much less a chemistry.

Same with Sally, as they seemed to be more friendly only after the post-perndercalypse reboot, tough not to the point that I could say it led to a close bond... or at least not yet, since the comic was cancelled before that.

Anyway, I still don't think Amy should have sidekicks since she is a character with her very own personal goal to achieve (winning Sonic's heart). At most Amy joins other characters whenever she crosses paths with anyone that needs help, and regardless of wether she assumes leadership (Heroes) or acts as a team player (SA2, 06), it allows Amy to remain a versatile character that can adapt and cooperate in whatever way better serves the greater good, a quality that I feel that other characters hard-locked into teams (for example Tails and Knuckles) lack.

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So, now that we have seen Amy revealed for TSR I was wondering what people think think of this new configuration of Team Rose. Personally, I don't get the use of the chaos since that seems to be more of a Cream thing than Amy, but more confounding than that is that Omochao is now an official (or honorary) member of Team Rose. I get that Amy is compassionate, but this is Omochao that we're talking about.

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1 hour ago, Sonic Fan J said:

So, now that we have seen Amy revealed for TSR I was wondering what people think think of this new configuration of Team Rose. Personally, I don't get the use of the chaos since that seems to be more of a Cream thing than Amy, but more confounding than that is that Omochao is now an official (or honorary) member of Team Rose. I get that Amy is compassionate, but this is Omochao that we're talking about.

It's dumb/confusing.

Tbf on that last point though, was Omochao ever really any bad? It just seems to be there most of the time, awkwardly helping/assisting the other characters with little to no issue outside of it's debut.

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That last bit was honestly more of a joke than anything. Though truthfully, I don't see how this team can really be considered Team Rose or any type of team. If it wasn't for the precedent of Team Rose having an interchangeable roster of a rather large number of characters I would hesitate to call it Team Rose at all even with Amy being there.

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22 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

So, now that we have seen Amy revealed for TSR I was wondering what people think think of this new configuration of Team Rose. Personally, I don't get the use of the chaos since that seems to be more of a Cream thing than Amy, but more confounding than that is that Omochao is now an official (or honorary) member of Team Rose. I get that Amy is compassionate, but this is Omochao that we're talking about.

Imagine if characters like Sonic or Tails had told Amy "I know you're compassionate, but this is Gamma/Shadow,/etc we're talking about".

Amy's compassion is not limited just to the "feel sorry for me" type of characters with tragic backgrounds. If she can feel even for bad guys like Infinite, then why would it be a problem if she does for a character like Omochao. I mean, she's friends with Big the cat, a character that is despised by a lot of people... Of course none of the characters are aware of how they're perceived by the fandom, however Boom shows that she'll stick to her friends no matter what others think or say about them, like when Sticks was being harassed by the villagers who blamed the badger for what one of her ancestors did.

I don't mind that Amy is teamed up with different characters, since she is one of the most friendly characters in the franchise, something that allows her to always have options, unlike other such as Tails or Knuckles who are essentially hard-locked to Sonic as their only option because of how through their time in the franchise, they hardly invested in interacting with other characters not named Sonic, in some cases like that of Knuckles making absolutely no sense because Knuckles is supposed to be this rival that wants to best Sonic at least once... How is he going to do that by being on the same team as Sonic?

Plus, I like the idea that Amy welcomes some of the apparently "lesser" characters into her team and does what some of the "bigger" ones will not: believe in them. I don't think there are many things that can speak highly of a character than this type of actions. It's kind of like the Fuzzy Puppies episode where Amy uses a diverse set of puppy figures, including one that would self-disqualify if moved and who no one in their right mind would want to bring, while Eggman only places his faith on the stronger ones.

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On 6/25/2018 at 3:09 AM, DabigRG said:

Tbf on that last point though, was Omochao ever really any bad?

I don't think so. You had to walk into him to make him talk, plus you could throw him off the cliff. I don't know what to hate here.

And this Team Rose from Team Racing is probably meme-tic. Big & Omochao are way more twitter-known than poor Cream.

I have to say, between this game, last Olympics and Forces, Sega really been neglecting her. If Blaze & all Chaotix are in this game

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