Would you change/fix Shadow origin?

[MetalSkulkBane]

I heard people saying that Shadow's origin is going too far for Sonic the Hedgehog. Or that's it's too convoluted and stuff and stuff. That makes me wonder, is there any way to make it better, while still staying true to Shadow? Imagine you're making a reboot of the series and has to reintroduce Shadow to the world.

Personally, I have no idea how to do this. Someone suggested Shadow should be a Sonic clone, but honestly, that's a terrible idea. Long story short, Scourge is not Shadow.
Sonic the Comic Online (fan continuation of Fleetway series) changed his origin, but their version only fits in their continuity, involving Dakon Empire and dr Kintobor.
Finally, there is Boom Shadow, were Shadow just... is. Yeah,  not the best idea.

Thoughts?

[Salamander]

I'd be against them changing Shadow's origin for the reason that I'm not fond of retcons and continuity rewrites in general - but if it were a question of, "would I have preferred it to be different in the first place?", I might feel differently.  Shadow's origins seem to diverge very far from the initial concept of the character as a dark Sonic, to the point where the end result of what the character looks like feels arbitrary in relation to the canonical process of his creation.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Only thing I would change would be his alien background, because that hardly had any initial connection to the character and was more out of nowhere.

I’d probably add more to the conspiracy angle SA2 had in its place.

[Tara]

The problem isn't so much Shadow's backstory itself but that his identity is almost intrinsically linked to a period of time in Sonic's history that he and other characters have difficulty fitting into the current age that tries to mingle classic and modern elements together with little regard to coherency.  Sonic Forces' Episode Shadow demonstrates this tremendously, where playing as Shadow in the distinctly bright and colorful Green Hill Zone while a remix of Westopolis plays feels extremely jarring.  Granted, a lot of this might be because of the series' own establishment of certain associations and connotations for certain elements in the Sonic universe.  Like, hearing motifs from Shadow the Hedgehog in Sonic Forces seems dissonant to me because I directly associate them with that specific game, but maybe someone who played Forces first or didn't play Shadow the Hedgehog at all might feel differently.

With that in mind, Shadow's backstory as it was introduced in Sonic Adventure 2 is fine in the context of the particular time period when he was introduced.  If I had to change anything, I would probably take out all the ambiguity regarding rather or not his memories are even real or whatever they were going for and just sort of make his backstory a little more straightforward.  I might remove the Biolizard as well, because outside of being a decently fun boss, he doesn't really serve much purpose to the narrative.  In addition, I would probably allow the story more time to actually focus on Shadow's relationship with Gerald and Maria before the tragedy, instead of making the tragedy itself the sole defining aspect of his character.  I want to see more of who Shadow was before, and how the incident shaped him into who we know today.

And I'd happily just sort of remove everything that Shadow's game added.  The aliens, the G.U.N. commander, etc.  All of that.  We can pretend none of that ever happened, right?

I don't mind STCO or Boom having a radically different take on Shadow's backstory, because they are (or at least the former is) a radically different take on the series in general.  That doesn't mean that the alternate versions of Shadow are going to be good or anything, but I think characters should be allowed to have different aspects, including their backstories, experimented with, especially if their current one clashes with the world building that was set forth previously.  But I don't think we should outright do away with it.

[Emerald Chaos]

It was Shaymay's Sonic Spitball series where I first heard the suggestion that a rewrite for Shadow's backstory to simplify it and make him a clone of Sonic would be a good thing and he does a good job of making an argument for it.

I personally like the idea because it explains a lot about the character without precluding any depth, even though the concept is cliched, I don't really feel that his backstory as it is now ISN'T cliched. It's just a lot less understandable due to being a large pile of cliches. From my perspective it's more about having a simple base to work from.

To address the OPs comment that "Scourge is not Shadow". I'm not saying that he should be. For one, if I'm going to argue specifics, Scourge isn't a literal "clone" of Sonic except in a meta sense, but if it's a meta sense that you're arguing that point from, then Shadow IS like Scourge. For another, there are countless variations in which a character can be a foil to Sonic's traits. As the series is, most characters, especially those who have been designated rivals to him are foils in one way or another. Making Shadow's backstory accurately describe his "function" in the series does not limit the possibilities of his presentation.

[Diogenes]

I don't think it's worth the effort and headaches to try to retcon his origin story within the Modern continuity. If we're talking about a reboot or a new continuity though, I would definitely make some changes. Possibly some pretty radical ones, though it's hard to come up with specifics without knowing what kind of world I'd be writing him into.

I'd definitely cut everything from ShtH, though. I don't think anything to do with Black Doom or the GUN commander added anything of value to his backstory. I'd also like to get rid of GUN as a whole, as I've never really liked their presence in the series. And TBH I could do without Maria having Tragic Anime Sickness as it's kind of cliche and didn't really have much of an impact on the story anyway.

So to spitball a bit, let's say Shadow's "childhood" was mostly the same; he was created by Gerald and he bonded with Maria. Something goes terribly wrong in the lab and the whole place is sealed away. 50 years later Eggman digs through Gerald's notes and finds out about this incredibly powerful and dangerous creature he created, so he heads to the lab and releases Shadow. Who both he and the audience think is responsible for the disaster (and maybe even Shadow himself does, amnesia/brainwashing/a psychic connection to the monster, idk), but it's actually some gross mutant prototype-Shadow that got loose and Shadow fought it to a standstill to protect his "family". Eventually it's made clear that Shadow isn't the monster, the monster gets beaten for good, maybe it turns out Shadow did manage to save Gerald and Maria but they've died of old age while he was sealed away or something (bittersweet because he's still lost them but at least they were able to live full, peaceful lives).

I dunno, it's not quite there yet, but there's a path somewhere in there. Whether it leads somewhere better or worse than the current story I'm not sure. I don't really have a clear idea of how this would fit into an actual game's story, or how to have this Shadow meaningfully connect to Sonic, and it might make Shadow too sympathetic and heroic when I'd really prefer if he was more of an asshole, so if I was actually doing something with this I might just end up scrapping the whole thing anyway.

[ShadowSJG]

I think it's fine. I mean, Mewtwo has pretty much the same origin and Pokemon and that's all right. Why not for Shadow?(Aliens is pushing it, though).

[MetalSkulkBane]

49 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I don't think it's worth the effort and headaches to try to retcon his origin story within the Modern continuity. If we're talking about a reboot or a new continuity though...

 

Not retcon. Reboot. Think Marvel movies, comparing to comics.  (And let's say the world would have a similar tone to Archie/IDW Sonic).

But overall your idea is pretty cool. I can see you made it up on ago, maybe after long thinking, it would fall apart, but overall it's cool idea.

Just now, ShadowSJG said:

I think it's fine. I mean, Mewtwo has pretty much the same origin and Pokemon and that's all right. Why not for Shadow?(Aliens is pushing it, though).

Mewtwo has no soldier shooting a little girl or scientist going insane... last time I checked anyway.

Mind you, I love creepy Gerald speech at the end of the game and I can't imagine Shadow without dead-Maria-moral-compass.

The point of this topic is to spitball.

1 hour ago, Emerald Chaos said:

It was Shaymay's Sonic Spitball series where I first heard the suggestion that a rewrite for Shadow's backstory to simplify it and make him a clone of Sonic would be a good thing and he does a good job of making an argument for it.

I personally like the idea because it explains a lot about the character without precluding any depth, even though the concept is cliched, I don't really feel that his backstory as it is now ISN'T cliched. It's just a lot less understandable due to being a large pile of cliches. From my perspective it's more about having a simple base to work from.

1

My biggest gripe with this concept it that it makes Shadow entire existence a foil to Sonic, rather than being his own person. "Shadow the Ultimate Life Form" just sounds way cooler than "Shadow the evil clone". Especially if he'll get reformed.

Besides, Metal Sonic exists. Are we really going with idea that Eggman build yet another Sonic copy? That's ignorig Mecha and other robots.

[Razule]

For a reboot, yes,  he could be either a random hedgehog or a clone, for the series as it is, no. It's not worth more retcons.

[Multikaris]

Perhaps go with the idea that Shadow never actually met Maria (if she even existed), and had her be a sort of mentality coded into Shadow to make him the way he is. Basically like what Fleetway did with him. 

[Tara]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

And TBH I could do without Maria having Tragic Anime Sickness as it's kind of cliche and didn't really have much of an impact on the story anyway.

While all of this is true, I think Maria having some form of illness is a fine enough plot point as a justification for Gerald's urgency to create something like Shadow to begin with.  I would, of course, rather it be less vague and actually be mentioned in the plot and not left to meta material, but again, I'd rather there be more time for us to reflect on Shadow's past before the incident than I would retcon too much out of it.

In a general sense, I don't mind the plot points being cliche.  I mean, Sonic himself is basically a bit of a hybrid between The Flash, Spiderman, Goku, and whatever other shonen heroes were popular at the time of the game's release.  But even as someone as unabashedly derivative as Sonic demonstrably can be made in such a way that offers a fresh and interesting take on the archetypes.  Basically, my problems with Maria's illness, and by extension a good deal of Shadow's backstory in general, isn't that it's cliche so much as that the writers give us very little reason to actually care.

[Razule]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

maybe it turns out Shadow did manage to save Gerald and Maria but they've died of old age while he was sealed away or something (bittersweet because he's still lost them but at least they were able to live full, peaceful lives

Well.. not really, Maria would only be 62 fifty years later.

[Shadowlax]

3 hours ago, Tara said:

 

And I'd happily just sort of remove everything that Shadow's game added.  The aliens, the G.U.N. commander, etc.  All of that.  We can pretend none of that ever happened, right?

 

No, because that's the part you kind of need to keep. That's the interesting part, and that's the part that can be changed and morphed into something everyone is happy with. 

If I were to change shadow's backstory, I would just DMC it

Remove the Robotnik part entierly. 

Shadow's dad was an alium. Shadow's mom was a hedgehog named maria who worked for gun or his mom was an alien named maria and his dad was the hedgehog either or. They ded, he got took by gun because he was powerful and a child. And was locked up for a much shorter amount of time. Eggman breaks him out, SA2 happens, he knows about the arc because his mom worked on it or something. They find the lazer, yada yada, changes his mind, yada yada. Its done, when he's falling to earth its the alien part that keeps him alive. That way you can work that part into his future. 

The reason I think the alien thing has value as a concept, is that it adds a weird monsterious self loathing to his character i find interesting. And It got us eclipse who is a fantastic character

[Diogenes]

1 hour ago, Razule said:

Well.. not really, Maria would only be 62 fifty years later.

Eh, true enough. Just make it 75 years, then.

24 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

The reason I think the alien thing has value as a concept, is that it adds a weird monsterious self loathing to his character i find interesting.

He could already angst over being a genetically modified immortal weapon if he wanted, though.

[Wraith]

3 hours ago, Emerald Chaos said:

It was Shaymay's Sonic Spitball series where I first heard the suggestion that a rewrite for Shadow's backstory to simplify it and make him a clone of Sonic would be a good thing and he does a good job of making an argument for it.

I personally like the idea because it explains a lot about the character without precluding any depth, even though the concept is cliched, I don't really feel that his backstory as it is now ISN'T cliched. It's just a lot less understandable due to being a large pile of cliches. From my perspective it's more about having a simple base to work from.

To address the OPs comment that "Scourge is not Shadow". I'm not saying that he should be. For one, if I'm going to argue specifics, Scourge isn't a literal "clone" of Sonic except in a meta sense, but if it's a meta sense that you're arguing that point from, then Shadow IS like Scourge. For another, there are countless variations in which a character can be a foil to Sonic's traits. As the series is, most characters, especially those who have been designated rivals to him are foils in one way or another. Making Shadow's backstory accurately describe his "function" in the series does not limit the possibilities of his presentation.

 

I've always been against these takes on Shadow that involve taking the tragic element out of his back story because you are pretty much taking what makes the character different from a lot of edgy clone types away for the sake of making him more "presentable" and not really thinking about whether it makes him any better as a character.

I would change Shadow's backstory, but only because I think it needs to be refocused a bit on the tragedy that is Maria's illness, and not the government conspiracy or the aliens. Imo they need to bring out the elements that are relatable so it strikes a chord with people. I think you could make it as simple as Shadow failing to save Maria and Gerald considering him a failure and sealing him. His friend passed away and his"father" rejected him.

[Shadowlax]

4 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

 

He could already angst over being a genetically modified immortal weapon if he wanted, though.

He could, but I feel there is nothing to gain there. 

But instead of a contributor, but having a direct parent being that thing could air of mystery along with that sort of longing and searching for what exactly is that thing. One of the concepts the comics introduced that was pretty interesting is that shadow and knuckles were kind of on opposite ends of a spectrum. Knuckles knowing he is, and wanting to find other echidinas because he misses his family or presumbly never had one. Shadow's loathing of who he is, also comes with with wandering what he is because he doesn't know what will hapen to him, his body and sometimes just self improvement of what he could do better. 

Having a direct parental link could have shadow's body going through like an alien metamorphosis that might spur him into investigating who his , and that investigation could open up a lot of interesting plot points for him.  

9 minutes ago, Josh said:

 

I've always been against these takes on Shadow that involve taking the tragic element out of his back story because you are pretty much taking what makes the character different from a lot of edgy clone types away for the sake of making him more "presentable" and not really thinking about whether it makes him any better as a character.

I feel like a lot of the people with takes like this don't actually care to much about shadow as a character, but only value you him as a rival function. Or don't value you him at all and only see him as a rival function. 

9 minutes ago, Josh said:

 

I would change Shadow's backstory, but only because I think it needs to be refocused a bit on the tragedy that is Maria's illness, and not the government conspiracy or the aliens. Imo they need to bring out the elements that are relocatable so it strikes a chord with people. I think you could make it as simple as Shadow failing to save Maria and Gerald considering him a failure and sealing him. His friend passed away and his"father" rejected him.

I think the aliens thing is the better part. If they focused that on being his background. The maria illness is weird I don't think would play well if they tried to do that again. Its pretty weird even for sonic. Shadow' having an alien parent and the government being affraid of him and locking him up because different is pretty relatable concept

[Celestia]

I wouldn't mind the aliens part if the aliens in question were actually interesting and/or entertaining and/or had good designs, so if I was keeping the retcons relatively light I think I'd just change that.

There's not too much I'd change about his origins as established in SA2 alone. Some of the off-hand ideas I've considered when it comes to rewriting SA2 do have to do with Gerald, but that was from thinking about things you could do to replace the Biolizard with something that was less out of nowhere.

[Osmium]

If this was another universe, I probably would just make Shadow a clone of Sonic, created by Eggman with some comedic elements to it. 

I think it would be cool if most of the time he acts very similar to Sonic, perhaps even more boastful and self-serving, but occasionally he turns very monster-like (gains sharp teeth and looks a lot more primal monster-ish and nightmarish) as he's this really messed up genetic thing. Perhaps he was a successor to Metal Sonic but the genetic complexities of unstableness of Shadow would make Eggman abandon the concept of Shadow and locks him up but he is freed from Eggman's control somehow and becomes the antihero we all know. 

Maybe the "ultimate life form" thing could still be around, but this time it's actually one of Shadow's many delusions of grandeur and a form of dissent from Eggman who would most likely have just called him "the ultimate Sonic" or something like that. That takes him away from Metal Sonic who only wants to be the true Sonic, Shadow thinks he's too good to be the true Sonic, or any Sonic. 

I know probably everyone would hate this, but I think it's better and more humorous than what we currently have for Shadow. I've never cared for his present backstory at all.

[Shadowlax]

11 minutes ago, A crocodile said:

 

I know probably everyone would hate this, but I think it's better and more humorous than what we currently have for Shadow. I've never cared for his present backstory at all.

Maybe not every character needs to be humorous ?

[Osmium]

Just now, Shadowlax said:

Maybe not every character needs to be humorous ?

Maybe more "fun" in a Sonic context is how I should've said it.

[Salamander]

The more I read this thread, the more it seems like the simpler thing to do to address my specific problem with him - that being that he's a dark Sonic whose history and personality have nothing to do with Sonic - would be to change Shadow's appearance so that he's not actually a dark Sonic at all, he's his own character.

For a backstory-rewriting version which essentially tosses away the character we have now - well, one of the pieces of Shadow concept art (the lower-right one, to be specific) -

Quote

- looks to me like the idea behind it was "Metal Sonic given flesh."  And that as the basis for a rival who subsequently becomes an antihero honestly strikes me as a lot more interesting and a lot more fitting for the series.

[Shadowlax]

55 minutes ago, FFWF said:

The more I read this thread, the more it seems like the simpler thing to do to address my specific problem with him - that being that he's a dark Sonic whose history and personality have nothing to do with Sonic - would be to change Shadow's appearance so that he's not actually a dark Sonic at all, he's his own character.

For a backstory-rewriting version which essentially tosses away the character we have now - well, one of the pieces of Shadow concept art (the lower-right one, to be specific) -

- looks to me like the idea behind it was "Metal Sonic given flesh."  And that as the basis for a rival who subsequently becomes an antihero honestly strikes me as a lot more interesting and a lot more fitting for the series.

Ok so like, correct me if 'm wrong are you suggesting that you make him look like that. Because if so, he will become much less popular. His design being really really good is part of that. 

If you want him to look a bit different in general? Yes, I agree with that, its why I want them to embrace the alien thing. Yeah shadow's game was bad, but the premise is fine, and is executed well in the comics. Just make him look a bit more like the aliens, 

[Dr. Detective]

No, I wouldn't change anything about it. I'd probably clarify a lot of things though. Make things a lot more clearer than they were in the initial introduction. Maybe go into what the Artificial Chaos are and why those experiments happened when he saw the Perfect Chaos mural in Sonic Adventure or whatever. Maybe clarify him modeling Shadow after the picture of Sonic he saw on it as well or something. Go more into the Biolizard stuff and detail it's journey to being put on life-support...

Get rid of the Black Arms. Either that or reveal that Black Doom providing his blood was like a pin-drop into the formula used to make him just so we can attribute as little as possible to him...

Although, honestly, I'd rather not bother with origins right now. At least not when it comes to Shadow. Shadow's had his origin explored enough already. If they have a good idea (fat chance) I prefer they do it with someone who hasn't had one yet. 

[Silvereyes]

I probably wouldn't change Shadow's origin, if purely because I'm not sure when the last time it was ever really relevant in the games. I think Shadow is relatively fine right now, he basically exists as the anti-hero moody fan favourite character who has a rivarly with the clean hero. I don't think his backstory really matters that much with what he does in the series right now.

Personally, if you ask me the one who needs a background change is Silver. What with Sonic '06 not happening but him still being in the present timeline, and now just hangs around awkwardly with the main cast, as well as apparently no longer being capable as Sonic or Shadow. I think he needs either a retcon or something to happen to him so that he can have an actual purpose, rather than just be there because he has to be there.

[Shadowlax]

14 minutes ago, silvereye27 said:

I probably wouldn't change Shadow's origin, if purely because I'm not sure when the last time it was ever really relevant in the games. I think Shadow is relatively fine right now, he basically exists as the anti-hero moody fan favourite character who has a rivarly with the clean hero. I don't think his backstory really matters that much with what he does in the series right now.

The thing is , it kind of is?

If someone see's shadow, goes I like that guy what is backstory. And see's all that, that might not be the prettiest picture. Furthermore, he doesn't have a rivalry with the hero, like your other example that isn't what he does in the series now either. 

So you know, having a backstory that fits what he's about and does and doesn't confuse the mess out of someone might help

14 minutes ago, silvereye27 said:

Personally, if you ask me the one who needs a background change is Silver. What with Sonic '06 not happening but him still being in the present timeline, and now just hangs around awkwardly with the main cast, as well as apparently no longer being capable as Sonic or Shadow. I think he needs either a retcon or something to happen to him so that he can have an actual purpose, rather than just be there because he has to be there.

I agree with this though