Should racist/bigots in fandoms be exposed?

[ShadowSJG]

I was wondering, what are your thoughts on exposing racist and bigots? I'm not talking about doxxing or anything. I mean just like creating awareness of their bigotry. Is it ethical to do so? Is it defamation?

[Ashwalking Bat]

It generally shouldn't matter if someone is a racist or biggot. In most cases, they end up doing more harm to themselves, than anything else. However, if it gets to a point that it becomes cyberbulling, threats, or if they start publicly attacking people IRL. Then it is wise to warn others of their misdeeds, along with informing the authorities. A good amount of the time though, it'll never get to that extreme unless they are provoked into doing so. Though there are some serious nutcases out there that get into fandoms. So yeah.

[Dr. Mechano]

1 hour ago, ShadowSJG said:

Is it defamation?

Wikipedia says, "Under common law, to constitute defamation, a claim must generally be false and must have been made to someone other than the person defamed."

So simply repeating facts (i.e. "Person said such-and-such racial slur" or "Person claimed that x-group was inferior") isn't defamation, because it's simply reporting an actual falsifiable thing they said or did.

[ShadowSJG]

I was wondering, do you think this person seems racist. They are defending usage of the N word:

 

https://imgur.com/a/r2iWPGQ

https://imgur.com/a/RBJDABi

[Shaddy Zaphod]

They'll usually out themselves. I think it's important to not have witch hunts happen, and defamation totally can occur and has before, which is precisely why. It's all too common that someone is "called out" or "exposed" as racist, sexist, homophobic or anything else and immediately torn to shreds by the internet. Plenty of the time it's because they're right, but not always, and it can lead to a lot of people that are innocent having their voices silenced or even being grouped in with the target.

 

EDIT: oh, you have a specific instance in mind. That makes things a lot harder without context

[ShadowSJG]

1 minute ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

They'll usually out themselves. I think it's important to not have witch hunts happen, and defamation totally can occur and has before, which is precisely why. It's all too common that someone is "called out" or "exposed" as racist, sexist, homophobic or anything else and immediately torn to shreds by the internet. Plenty of the time it's because they're right, but not always, and it can lead to a lot of people that are innocent having their voices silenced or even being grouped in with the target.

 

EDIT: oh, you have a specific instance in mind. That makes things a lot harder without context

Here in comment section if you want to read:

https://aleximusprime.deviantart.com/journal/Fort-NEIN-740285514

But did you see my screens.

 

 

[Diogenes]

1 hour ago, ShadowSJG said:

Should racist/bigots in fandoms be exposed?

Yeah, fuck 'em. Unrepentant bigots don't deserve to feel welcome.

[ShadowSJG]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Yeah, fuck 'em. Unrepentant bigots don't deserve to feel welcome.

I see. Did you see my links?

I've wanted to expose this guy, but the thing is, he doesn't think he's racist and when I call him out, he says I slander and bully him.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

In response to your OP: I mean, I don't see why not. That doesn't necessarily mean you should go out of your way looking for bigoted fandom members to expose them, or that you should just give needless attention to random people that no one would've known about in the first place just to tell everyone they're racist. But if you happen to learn about it, I don't see a problem with sharing that information to warn others, as long as you're careful to be accurate, not sensationalist or stirring up drama for the sake of it, and it's actually serious, real bigotry and not something misconstrued or exaggerated.

While I was writing my post, you made the reply with the specific instance. If this is just some random person making these comments, then it would fall under what I said about paying needless attention to random people. I was thinking more like prominent members of a fandom. If it's just some random person, well, there are a lot of random people who are racist out there. It may make sense to point out they're wrong or even, on certain occasions, to argue with them, but if you're talking about going around and saying "Stay away from [this person], he's racist!" when no one even knows who he is, well...what's the point? I don't think I would draw undue attention to such a thing unless the situation specifically called for it.

Tell him that you don't think that's appropriate, and if someone else mentions him or asks about him, feel free to tell them what he did. I personally think that's all you should bother doing when it's not a well-known person. Also, if you've already argued with him some and he won't listen, at some point you should stop bothering if it's clear they're not open to change.

I don't fully know what you mean to do by "exposing" this person, so better advice may be given if you're more specific on your intent.

[ShadowSJG]

Exposing. Making people aware of his racism is my intent. The issue is, this clown says it's slander and libel or he's being bullied.

Here is my evidence

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Yes, I saw that.

So, what are you going to do to "expose" his racism? And who even is this person?

Honestly, I suspect this guy isn't worth the time or energy you're going to put into "exposing" him. But that's just me, I could be wrong.

[ShadowSJG]

A few things.

1. First, does he seem racist? I want to make sure he can't accuse me of libel or some BS

2. Well, to expose him, I mean share is racist comments.

3. I think he's kinda well known. He's s an artist for a fandom and has been a vendor at cons.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Share his comments with whom, and where, and how?

[Osmium]

Gonna echo MDS a bit and ask is this even worth it at all. I don't really see what's to be gained by outing some random DeviantArt guy. He just sounds like some idiot PewDiePie supporter more than anything else (just what i get out of it). 

[ShadowSJG]

He's not just on DA. He has twitter. I imagine sharing it among the community.

 

Again, does he seem racist?

[Osmium]

10 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

He's not just on DA. He has twitter. I imagine sharing it among the community.

 

Again, does he seem racist?

He sounds more like some generic edgelord than anything else (especially with the standard "idiot leftist" line), although the statement that tonnes of people say "the N word" and "it slips out" does raise some eyebrows admittedly. He just looks like an attention seeker to me and bandwagonner, there's literally thousands of people that use the exact same talking points as this dude. 

[ShadowSJG]

15 minutes ago, A crocodile said:

He sounds more like some generic edgelord than anything else (especially with the standard "idiot leftist" line), although the statement that tonnes of people say "the N word" and "it slips out" does raise some eyebrows admittedly. He just looks like an attention seeker to me and bandwagonner, there's literally thousands of people that use the exact same talking points as this dude. 

Nah. He's racist. First, did you see him say only easily offended people offended by using the N word and it's simply a word/noise? Not to mention insulting someone for getting offended.

Also, here's evidence:

Ben shapiro said this:  Israelis like to build. Arabs like to bomb crap and live in open sewage. This is not a difficult issue. #settlementsrock

 

And he defended it here:

https://sta.sh/0a5peex01j3

 

Also, defending Nazism:

He claims this:

Now, let me just say at the offset that I am totally not cool with Nazism or bigotry in general, I don't think there are many on this site who are, but this is absolutely fucking ridiculous.  Yes, the video was stupid and immature, I'm sure Dank realizes that and he is known for being a "shit-poster", but arresting someone for this is taking it way too far.  Again, if people make jokes like this, they should expect backlash, but what Dank did is in NO WAY going to be a threat to anyone's well-being.
 but also said this:

"Count Dankula" uploaded a video of him teaching his girlfriend's pug to respond to Nazi slogans like "gas the Jews" and to put his paw up in response to someone saying "Sieg Heil". Now I know you're probably disgusted with hearing this but he did mention at the end that he is not racist, he just did this as a joke to annoy his girlfriend. Fair enough, right? "

 

And in the thing I said, he defended Pewdiepie jew thing.

[Mad Convoy]

I don't really see the point either. There's a million douchebags on DeviantArt. This one's boring and non-influential, and as jaded as this sounds, not nearly the worst I've seen online. Why add fuel to the fire? The most it'll do is give the guy undeserved attention. I'd just quietly report the racist incidents to DA and move on.

Now, if this person actually had some influence, had been using this word to abuse others, or lord forbid, actually done something illegal, then yeah, call out. You'll be doing their victims a favor. But otherwise? Well, to use a medical metaphor, save the antibiotics for the really harmful and persistent pathogens-- its a quick and satisfying solution, sure, but overdoing it with antibiotics will just encourage resistance and strength amongst otherwise ineffectual parasites, making the problem worse and more widespread than if you let the immune system do its job. 

[ShadowSJG]

1 minute ago, Mad Convoy said:

I don't really see the point either. There's a million douchebags on DeviantArt. This one's boring and non-influential, and as jaded as this sounds, not nearly the worst I've seen online. Why add fuel to the fire? The most it'll do is give the guy undeserved attention. I'd just quietly report the racist incidents to DA and move on.

Now, if this person actually had some influence, had been using this word to abuse others, or lord forbid, actually done something illegal, then yeah, call out. You'll be doing their victims a favor. But otherwise? Well, to use a medical metaphor, save the antibiotics for the really harmful and persistent pathogens-- its a quick and satisfying solution, sure, but overdoing it with antibiotics will just encourage resistance and strength amongst otherwise ineffectual parasites, making the problem worse and more widespread than if you let the immune system do its job. 

Well, he is still racist, right/

[Mad Convoy]

Just now, ShadowSJG said:

Well, he is still racist, right/

Yes, but that doesn't mean he's worth your time. In fact, the racism coupled with the lack of actual significance or risk to others is actually amongst the many, many reasons he isn't worth your time.

[ShadowSJG]

The thing is, what annoys me is how this guy has gone on saying he's been 'bullied' and 'slandered' for just having a different opinion. while leaving out a lot of details and people believe him. I just want people to be aware of what kind of guy he really is.

[Mad Convoy]

8 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

The thing is, what annoys me is how this guy has gone on saying he's been 'bullied' and 'slandered' for just having a different opinion. while leaving out a lot of details and people believe him. I just want people to be aware of what kind of guy he really is.

You have the right and good reason to be annoyed, but its not your problem. If people don't do a basic Google search that would uncover everything that proves that he's obviously a douchecanoe or refuse to believe he's a douchecanoe despite all evidence to the contrary, then well, you can't fix that. They're foolish and maybe jerks too. Most you can do is not get tangled up in this crap.

[Zaysho]

The more I read this topic, the less well-intended it seems. Whatever beef or drama you have with this person, and if they're engaging in particularly abusive behavior, and not just saying something stupid to be edgy or contrarian (or maybe they don't see the same intention you do), then maybe you should, I dunno, report it to Deviant Art and let them investigate it. You've clearly already made up your mind on what you want to do about this person, but SSMB is not the platform for it nor are we allowing you to bring this off-site drama here, so I'm locking this circle.