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New Sonic Heroes Development info.

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Cream is labeled by Maekawa as a Flight character and while I suppose Amy could be cast as a Power character if you play up her Hammer skills, Rouge was introduced as Knuckles' dark counterpart. I mean, Adventure 2 has Rouge make earthquakes using her hips so her being Power is hardly a stretch.

 

54 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

That makes too much sense!

Team Dark having the second most story of the cast does reflect that.

Actually, I'd say that Team Dark's story is the least fitting of the teams. Their story brings in tangents that aren't really connected with the struggle against Metal Sonic and took the next 3D game to be addressed. Considering it's been said that it was considered to give Shadow his own game even Heroes came out I figure elements of Shadow the Hedgehog were in storage until used for the game proper.

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Yeah team dark's story is pretty much all to itself and could function with metal sonic being the antagonist. 

It kinda makes me wish for a heroes type game where each team has a unique final boss. Also for a heroes game that is trash. 

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51 minutes ago, Almar said:

Cream is labeled by Maekawa as a Flight character and while I suppose Amy could be cast as a Power character if you play up her Hammer skills, Rouge was introduced as Knuckles' dark counterpart. I mean, Adventure 2 has Rouge make earthquakes using her hips so her being Power is hardly a stretch..

I brought up the exact same thing earlier. Rouge would have been in her element as the power character and now I’m imagining her kicking the shit out of everything with kicking combos and the like.

 The more I think about this early roster the more I think this would be more fun than what we got. This also would’ve meant no hour-long transformation sequences for Metal Sonic but whatever.

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1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

i don't think this is true actually. 

There are a couple teams that are like " We like them together " rather than " how would they work in game". Then again, shadow's a speed character and he has super strength so who knows?

To be fair, him having super strength was only ever a thing in his own game.

1 hour ago, Almar said:

 I mean, Adventure 2 has Rouge make earthquakes using her hips so her being Power is hardly a stretch.

It DID?!

1 hour ago, Almar said:

Actually, I'd say that Team Dark's story is the least fitting of the teams. Their story brings in tangents that aren't really connected with the struggle against Metal Sonic and took the next 3D game to be addressed. Considering it's been said that it was considered to give Shadow his own game even Heroes came out I figure elements of Shadow the Hedgehog were in storage until used for the game proper.

That's exactly what I meant: it feels notably disconnected to the story(which is saying something) and the Shadow Androids are only explicitly shown [destroyed/inactive] in their story.  Thus, it would've been easy to just save their story until Shado's Game.

28 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Yeah team dark's story is pretty much all to itself and could function with metal sonic being the antagonist. 

Uh, don't you mean without?

35 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

It kinda makes me wish for a heroes type game where each team has a unique final boss.

How could that work out?

28 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Also for a heroes game that is trash. 

Who woulda thunk you had such a high opinion of the game?

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15 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

To be fair, him having super strength was only ever a thing in his own game.

Nearly everyone who has ever been playable possesses super strength otherwise destroying mechs or burrowing through walls of stone or steal would be impossible without weaponry. Shadow overturning a bus one-handed would be lifting strength, and now Tails dragging 10 tons in Skypatrol comes to mind. Both don't sound impressive when you compare that to Knuckles causing Earthquakes by hitting the ground or creating explosions by punching the air, which would be striking power.

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19 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

To be fair, him having super strength was only ever a thing in his own game.

Not at all. Shadow being phsyical and stronger is a thing that is incorperated into several movesets of a few games. And is so consistant, that's its even encorperated into spin off material. In sonic universe shadow is fighting knuckles blow for blow and is so strong he literally chocked knuckles out lifting him up with one hand untill knuckles had to go through an inner monolouge to break it. And in sonic boom, he's literally tossing people around. Multiple people at points. 

And to put a cherry on this pie. Shadow having super strength might actually have been a thing from his concept. Because in shadow's concept art, shadow's is super buff. And it seems like they made the decision to make his design a bit more consistent with the rest of the cast, because even knuckles wasn't as buff as shadow was in that concept art. Which is a little dissapointing considering I actually have seen good concept art that had mad knuckles, shadow and amy a bit thicker to make them look stronger than other members of the cast with out making them look to muscley, but character design is a bit way off topic

Speaking of that though, did the person mention why they changed rouge's outfit for one game? Or if it might come back?

19 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

 

Uh, don't you mean without?

Yes without sorry

19 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

How could that work out?

It would cost money , but presumably you would give characters reletivly unique versions of each level theme and unique bosses that require you to think differently with each time. In my mind, a good heroes has each team play differently. Like instead of team dark having 3 members, omega being a character they just kinda created to fill in the 3rd role. Rouge and Shadow are by themselves and they both are strong and fast, or strong and fly. But the game is harder. Stuff like that. 

19 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Who woulda thunk you had such a high opinion of the game?

I wanted to like the game, its just tedious as hell man. 

18 minutes ago, MainJP said:

Nearly everyone who has ever been playable possesses super strength otherwise destroying mechs or burrowing through walls of stone or steal would be impossible without weaponry. Shadow overturning a bus one-handed would be lifting strength, and now Tails dragging 10 tons in Skypatrol comes to mind. Both don't sound impressive when you compare that to Knuckles causing Earthquakes by hitting the ground or creating explosions by punching the air, which would be striking power.

I don't think anyone is arguing in general that sonic characters aren't stronger than your average cartoon. To do what sonic characters do, they have to be extremely dense. That said In multiple pieces of material knuckles and Shadow being strong boys kinda comes up and is a thing of note, even in spin off material like the comics and things like boom. Where as tails doing feats of strength never....really comes up because its not his bag.

Well unless you count Buff comic tails from the prereboot

remembers and vomits

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8 hours ago, MainJP said:

E-102 is considered a "dead" character yet that didn't stop Chaos Gamma (basically an upgraded E-102) from appearing in Sonic Battle which released a 3 weeks before Heroes. Omega is mentioned in the game yet we play as a Gamma clone instead. Now I wonder when Battle began its planning stages.

 

Eh, lets also not forget that the doctor re-used Gamma's design quite a few times. Ahead of both Heroes and Battle was SA2's E-1000 models, which where essentially mass produced Gamma's meant to try and recapture the magic of the original.

 

I think its funny how Chaos and Gamma were both on the blocks for a return to the world of the living. Even though Shadow was the only one who ended up with a "get out of death" free card, it does go to show you where Sonic Teams' priorities lies when it comes to killing off their characters. If they are popular enough, they will just bring them right back.

...at least Sonic Shuffle explained that Gamma was still dead when it introduced him as playable...

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9 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Eh, lets also not forget that the doctor re-used Gamma's design quite a few times. Ahead of both Heroes and Battle was SA2's E-1000 models, which where essentially mass produced Gamma's meant to try and recapture the magic of the original.

 

I think its funny how Chaos and Gamma were both on the blocks for a return to the world of the living. Even though Shadow was the only one who ended up with a "get out of death" free card, it does go to show you where Sonic Teams' priorities lies when it comes to killing off their characters. If they are popular enough, they will just bring them right back.

...at least Sonic Shuffle explained that Gamma was still dead when it introduced him as playable...

But Chaos never really died to begin with?

And Gamma was a Badnik, complete with organic battery.

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17 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

But Chaos never really died to begin with?

Chaos soul was put at ease and he ascended past the mortal plane. If someone saw nothing beyond the ending of SA1, you would assume he was dead. I have every reason to believe he was supposed to be dead. Somewhere down the line, Sonic Team saw some profitability in padding their roster of characters, and he was written back into the narrative.

He should be dead-dead - like his buddy Tikal. They were in the same boat.

(I actually like how Archie kept her around for the record)

 

Quote

And Gamma was a Badnik, complete with organic battery.

 

So? Gamma gained independence and his character arc ended with him giving up the ghost and releasing his Flicky. Bringing back any Gamma runs the risk of cheapening his noble death, robot or not. It takes the stakes out of death and retroactively changes the course of the franchise. Whats the point of killing him off in SA1 if you just turn around and bring him back in Heroes? Its a slap in the face.

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3 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Chaos soul was put at ease and he ascended past the mortal plane. If someone saw nothing beyond the ending of SA1, you would assume he was dead. I have every reason to believe he was supposed to be dead. Somewhere down the line, Sonic Team saw some profitability in padding their roster of characters, and he was written back into the narrative.

He should be dead-dead - like his buddy Tikal. They were in the same boat.

(I actually like how Archie kept her around for the record)

 

Hm...I suppose. It's just that inevitable question of how do you kill of something that seemingly can't die. Only, you know, in a situation where that question didn't really need answering for the story to resolve.

3 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Bringing back any Gamma runs the risk of cheapening his noble death, robot or not. It takes the stakes out of death and retroactively changes the course of the franchise. Whats the point of killing him off in SA1 if you just turn around and bring him back in Heroes? Its a slap in the face.

I guess Sonic Team eventually came to that conclusion themselves, then. After one real try in Battle, of course.

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41 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Eh, lets also not forget that the doctor re-used Gamma's design quite a few times. Ahead of both Heroes and Battle was SA2's E-1000 models, which where essentially mass produced Gamma's meant to try and recapture the magic of the original.

 

I think its funny how Chaos and Gamma were both on the blocks for a return to the world of the living. Even though Shadow was the only one who ended up with a "get out of death" free card, it does go to show you where Sonic Teams' priorities lies when it comes to killing off their characters. If they are popular enough, they will just bring them right back.

...at least Sonic Shuffle explained that Gamma was still dead when it introduced him as playable...

Him being brought back merely due to popularity is just fan conjecture though. Just like the legendary poll that was refrenced for years, even though it wasn't even made until during Shadow the Hedgehog's production. Iizuka, who created shadow and wrote his death, says he always intended to bring back Shadow, regardless of what some other people assumed about his fate. Not to mention that Shadow was also in Sonic Battle.

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8 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

I guess Sonic Team eventually came to that conclusion themselves, then. After one real try in Battle, of course.

Sonic Team learned nothing. While they may have nixed Gamma's inclusion in Heroes, they kept Shadow in who has the exact same problem, and technically did it again when the killed Sonic in 06.

I actually liked the E-1000. It makes sense for Eggman to go back to that well, but Chaos Gamma was an insult. While they made it very clear that he had no memories or traits of the original Gamma, that really doesn't carry much water when ever character he comes across has to question if he is the original Gamma, and regret fighting with him. Its just pandering off the originals legacy.

 

1 minute ago, Uriel_Coltan said:

Him being brought back merely due to popularity is just fan conjecture though. Just like the legendary poll that was refrenced for years, even though it wasn't even made u til during Shadow the Hedgehog's production. Iizuka, who crwated shadow and wrote his death says he always intwnded to bring Shadow, regardless of what some other people assumed about his fate. Not to mention that Shadow was also in Sonic Battle.

Even if that were true, It doesn't particularly matter why he was brought back. Be it grand design or popularity, it still has the same end result of cheapening the original heroic sacrifice.

In fact, if he was always slated to live through SA2, that's even worse. That means they baited us with his death knowing full well they were just going to bring him back and make millions. That takes even less balls than caving into his popularity. That's just dirty.

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3 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Sonic Team learned nothing.

I don't see Chaos Gamma around anywhere else. Do you?

4 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

technically did it again when the killed Sonic in 06.

Does that really count though?

2 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I actually liked the E-1000. It makes sense for Eggman to go back to that well, but Chaos Gamma was an insult. While they made it very clear that he had no memories or traits of the original Gamma, that really doesn't carry much water when ever character he comes across has to question if he is the original Gamma, and regret fighting with him. Its just pandering off the originals legacy.

 

I don't remember much of Battle from the FTCR Stream, so I'll have to take your word for it.

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1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

In fact, if he was always slated to live through SA2, that's even worse. That means they baited us with his death knowing full well they were just going to bring him back and make millions. That takes even less balls than caving into his popularity. That's just dirty.

Not really 

Comic books do that shit at all the time. 

I litter ally saw batman get lazered through the head and then dye, but instead have his soul time travel so he would eventually return. Like , media does this so often, i'm trying to figure out what the issue is. Is was some drama, sure. But its a game about cartoon hedgehogs saving the world, if Marvel can get away with literally sniping cap and bringing him back a hedgehog can fall and take a bump and be fine. It doesn't really cheapen anything, he still did what he wanted to do, it helped people. Now he is alive to help more people

Like i'm not trying to be condescending, but if you have a problem with " oh he's alive " you might want to stop watching most modern media ever

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Not only was Shadow absent, I also noticed Heavy and Bomb, Tikal, Tails Doll, Metal Knuckles, and the Freedom Fighters are absent from these plans as well. It would have been interesting for Tikal to be revealed as the secret enemy. Or maybe she was like Chocola and Froggy, a plot coupon. Maybe what was done of Gamma was recycled in Battle for Chaos Gamma? Which may be why Chaos got in, and the evidence of the Chaotix having once been in.

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Just now, Miragnarok said:

Not only was Shadow absent, I also noticed Heavy and Bomb, Tikal, Tails Doll, Metal Knuckles, and the Freedom Fighters are absent from these plans as well.

What about Heavy and Bomb, tho? :lol: 

1 minute ago, Miragnarok said:

 the evidence of the Chaotix having once been in.

What evidence are you referring to here?

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7 hours ago, DabigRG said:

It DID?!

Yes:

The move's called Hip Drop. She starts doing it in the boss fight against her once her health has gone low enough and does it in multiplayer with 20 rings. Knuckles' answer to the move has him pound the ground with fists.

As already said, Rouge was to legs what Knuckles is to hands/arms (she was even called Nails at first). Her design even had her with thicker legs than than the other anthros her size or around it ala Chun-Li:

latest?cb=20171020124633

344?cb=20130524183114

 

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12 hours ago, Almar said:

Yes:

The move's called Hip Drop. She starts doing it in the boss fight against her once her health has gone low enough and does it in multiplayer with 20 rings. Knuckles' answer to the move has him pound the ground with fists.

As already said, Rouge was to legs what Knuckles is to hands/arms (she was even called Nails at first). Her design even had her with thicker legs than than the other anthros her size or around it ala Chun-Li:

latest?cb=20171020124633

344?cb=20130524183114

 

Huh. I have never seen her do that.

Probably cause she tends to just spam Black Wave, for good reason.

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27 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Truth be told, I actually like the idea of Amy, Rouge, and Cream being a team as I want Rouge to interacting with characters other than Knuckles or Shadow.

True enough. Plus, Rouge and Cream is such a stark combination that I'm really curious to see how it could play out.

Alas, Sonic Universe.

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5 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Alas, Sonic Universe.

Sad thing is that Rouge was pretty much a villain during the TTT arc; though, her and Amy seemed to be on good terms according to the Shattered arc.

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