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Plasme

The strict split between 'Classic' and 'Modern'

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14 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

You're talking when he's runnin, but I'm talking when he's spindashing, the speed increases very very much on slopes.

I can concede there is a degree of responsiveness with the spindash on slopes (when fighting gravity on the way up at least) but it's not nearly as adept as the Mega Drive games. But there still are major flaws with Sonic on slopes in general and the flow of it. There's a part in Sonic Spitball part one that shows it clearly (should start at 24:33)

 

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5 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

You will believe me: http://sonicfanon.wikia.com/

10,146 pages dedicated to FAN CHARACTERS (not official), which are based off the MODERN ERA.

Classic Sonic never generated this much inspiration in the fans to create and write their own stories!

You know what classic Sonic did have though? Good games. Still beating Modern there.

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2 minutes ago, A crocodile said:

Classic Sonic did have games that were good though. Still beating Modern there.

Hello? SA1, SA2, Heroes, Unleashed say hi! (also the many great 2D modern games that classic fans chose to ignore).

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6 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

You will believe me: http://sonicfanon.wikia.com/

10,146 pages dedicated to FAN CHARACTERS (not official), which are based off the MODERN ERA.

Classic Sonic never generated this much inspiration in the fans to create and write their own stories!

Man if you're telling me we could get rid of bad games and reams of fanfiction if Modern Sonic has never existed you're just selling me on the idea more.

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3 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Hello? SA1, SA2, Heroes, Unleashed say hi!

And why are these games good? One of your past claims is that they inspire people to create shitty fancharacters and shitty fanstories, that's not convincing me of much good at all.

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I fail to understand, the both of you say that like it's a bad thing.

Something that inspires people to create their own stuff is NOT BAD.

Flynn started as a fanfiction writer!

The many talented comics artists started as fan artists! You know why IDW selects these people instead of regular professionals? Because the fan artists love Sonic and sometimes grew up drawing him!

Flynn and Herms and Stanley and the others started as fan artists from inspiration during the MODERN ERA.

Heck even Tyson Hesse, the guy who worked on your beloved Mania drew his own fanarts, and made his own parody of Sonic!

Something that inspires fan to do their own shit is NOT BAD!

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1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

I don't understand, the both of you say that like it's a bad thing.

Something that inspires people to create their own stuff is NOT BAD.

Flynn started as a fanfiction writer!

The many talented comics artists started as fan artists! You know why IDW selects these people instead of regular professionals? Because the fan artists love Sonic and sometimes grew up drawing him!

Flynn and Herms and Stanley and the others started as fan artists from inspiration during the MODERN ERA.

Something that inspires fan to do their own shit is NOT BAD!

No, you didn't understand that:
games that inspire people to create their own shit (as you said) =/= good games ;) 

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2 minutes ago, superman43 said:

No, you didn't understand that:
games that inspire people to create their own shit (as you said) =/= good games ;) 

The more fanarts, the more successful the game/movie/Tv show is, this is a general rule in the entertainments industry.

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4 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

I don't understand, you that like it's a bad thing.

Something that inspires people to create their own stuff is NOT BAD.

Flynn started as a fanfiction writer!

The many talented comics artists started as fan artists! You know why IDW selects these people instead of regular professionals? Because the fan artists love Sonic and sometimes grew up drawing him!

Flynn and Herms and Stanley and the others started as fan artists from inspiration during the MODERN ERA.

Something that inspires fan to do their own shit is NOT BAD!

Maybe I'd agree with you more if this fanfiction we speak of wasn't one of the larger reasons for the series' completely destroyed reputation. And really, the few talented people being recognized out of the thousands that just create total garbage, you could say this for anything. 

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1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

Something that inspires people to create their own stuff is NOT BAD.

There's tons of fanfiction and fan art out there based on absolute trash, before even getting into the quality of the fan work.

And regardless of that quality, if people are making fan work based on something I don't like, I'm almost certainly not going to like the fan work either. So I don't give the slightest of shits how much fanfiction or fan art the modern series gets; it is worth nothing to me.

And what does any of this have to do with the thread anyway?

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1 minute ago, A crocodile said:

Maybe I'd agree with you more if this fanfiction we speak of wasn't one of the larger reasons for the series' completely destroyed reputation. 

Every franchise will have bad fanfiction, this is unavoidable! Harry Potter, Pokemon, Dragon Ball...

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2 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

The more fanarts, the more successful the game/movie/Tv show is, this is a general rule in the entertainments industry.

eeh... not really (Deadly Six looking at ya)... seriously though you don´t need a good game, you need a interesting plot... subjectively interesting plot

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

There's tons of fanfiction and fan art out there based on absolute trash, before even getting into the quality of the fan work.

And regardless of that quality, if people are making fan work based on something I don't like, I'm almost certainly not going to like the fan work either. So I don't give the slightest of shits how much fanfiction or fan art the modern series gets; it is worth nothing to me.

And what does any of this have to do with the thread anyway?

that´s exactly it

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3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

There's tons of fanfiction and fan art out there based on absolute trash, before even getting into the quality of the fan work.

And regardless of that quality, if people are making fan work based on something I don't like, I'm almost certainly not going to like the fan work either. So I don't give the slightest of shits how much fanfiction or fan art the modern series gets; it is worth nothing to me.

And what does any of this have to do with the thread anyway?

I have a folder with over 600 great fanarts if you want me to send here! And this makes the series more notorious whether you like it or not.

This creates more exposure and attracts more fans and keeps the franchise you are a fan of alive...

2 minutes ago, superman43 said:

eeh... not really (Deadly Six looking at ya)... seriously though you don´t need a good game, you need a interesting plot... subjectively interesting plot

that´s exactly it

Well Deadly Six hardly got any fanarts, they are not popular unlike Shadow for example, so there's that...

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EDIT: Unnecessary in general. Don't think I don't know it can be seen in Marco's quote below but I retroactively refrain from this statement for sake of overall atmosphere. 

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1 minute ago, A crocodile said:

"Just because Im a girl doesn't mean I can fight and win." 
— Azure the Squirrel

True genius guys. 

You expect every fan to be Shakespeare and whin litterature prizes?

Enough with the rigidity.

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3 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

This creates more exposure and attracts more fans and keeps the franchise you are a fan of alive...

Well Deadly Six hardly got any fanarts, they are not popular unlike Shadow for example, so there's that...

No, it´s because you don´t look for the SLW fanarts. That´s the proof of fanarts being based on subjectively liked plot thing. ;) 

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3 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

This creates more exposure and attracts more fans and keeps the franchise you are a fan of alive...

Y'know what actually keeps a series alive? Good products, that people actually want to buy. Not continuously embarrassing shovelware.

I don't care about the survival of a shambling corpse of a series I used to love. If a series destroys the things I like about it, it's as good as dead to me anyway.

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Just now, superman43 said:

No, it´s because you don´t look for the SLW fanarts. That´s the proof of fanarts being based on subjectively liked plot thing. ;) 

I actually looked for them, but there were not as many as Unleashed or SA2 fanarts.

 

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Y'know what actually keeps a series alive? Good products, that people actually want to buy. Not continuously embarrassing shovelware.

I don't care about the survival of a shambling corpse of a series I used to love. If a series destroys the things I like about it, it's as good as dead to me anyway.

Yeah like destroying Spin Dash and destroying multiple playable characters, but I'm still here, hoping for a Dreamcast style revival like classic revival that happened.

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I'd like to point out that I'm not talking about modern continuity, I don't care if the next 2D Sonic game is in the main timeline. To be honest I'd rather it's not, because the modern timeline is fractured and utterly confusing.

I'm talking about strictly removing modern characters (Cream, Shadow, Rouge etc) from a 2D game because 2D Sonic is now strictly associated with 1996 classic Sonic. I think this is especially frustrating when characters such as Cream and Blaze actually debuted in 2D games, and are locked out for an arbitrary reason that they weren't created before 1998. I don't mind this approach at all in Mania due to its 'Saturn' vision, but I don't want to see this continue, and I'm worried that it will.

I think the Advance games are a good example of how to progress in terms of using the Sonic legacy and tropes. Use the modern characters alongside the old while not strictly adhering to the main game timeline. 

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@Marco9966That's literally the thinking Sony had during the PSOne era of gaming. And just like them at the time you think the only way for old franchises to move forward is to go 3D? To that I turn you to the following that proves you don't have to make the jump to 3D to improve as a franchise

220px-Castlevania_SOTN_PAL.jpglatest?cb=2015012907142018390-1.jpg220px-Super_Castlevania_IV_North_America

With Castlevania 3 we have multiple characters with varying abilities, with Castlevania 4 they went back and remade the original improving the game play and movement. It gave it new atmosphere with music and visuals helping to set the series standard in mood and theme. When Rondo of Blood hit it gave the series a more story driven game along with multiple pathways to explore, it also introduces the series to CD quality music. All these games helped pave the way for Symphony of the night. An entirely different beast taking the best influences of past games and merging it into one of the most iconic games of that time.

SOTN brings in an already established side character from DC, is a direct sequel Rondo bringing in it's heroes and antagonists, and incorporates and expand on the idea of exploration from DC and Rondo. This is how you evolve a game franchise. You see what works from previous titles, take what does work and build upon it while rationally making changes if needed.

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1 minute ago, Plasme said:

I think the Advance games are a good example of how to progress in terms of using the Sonic legacy and tropes. Use the modern characters alongside the old while not strictly adhering to the main game timeline. 

True.

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1 minute ago, Plasme said:

I'm talking about strictly removing modern characters (Cream, Shadow, Rouge etc) from a 2D game because 2D Sonic is now strictly associated with 1996 classic Sonic.

I mean, it's not, though. Modern Sonic is still at least half 2D and I don't expect Sonic Team is going to change that any time soon.

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