RUMOR: Star Fox "Grand Prix" (Retro Studios, Diddy Kong Racing x F-Zero)

[Jango]

I mean great if true! For those that don't want a new proper Star Fox game, I guess... Platformers are returning, it's about time kart racers return too! Hopefully the Sonic Racing will shake up things too. 

[Teoskaven]

Similar to the case of Spyro i have to ask: we have a general rumor thread, is using it instead of making new threads that may lead nowhere that much of a hassle?

[BlossomHaze]

I'm a hardcore Star Fox fan, but I'm still curious about this. I really enjoyed Diddy Kong Racing back in the day, so that definitely caught my attention.
I also really liked Star Fox Zero and I'm usually alone in that, but I understand why a lot of people didn't like it. xD;

[Wraith]

I've warmed up to this idea after I decided to wait before I commented on it. There's a lot of interesting directions this could take, from a pod racing type thing to a legit dogfight/racing hybrid. I'm interested. I'm not excited, but hey, every other one of Retro's games had some backlash/initial bitching until we get a feel for it ourselves. I trust them more than any other studio on the planet.

[JezMM]

Mandatory comment from me about how Zero was great and y'all was just babies who didn't give yourselves the time required to learn a steeper-difficulty-curve-but-ultimately-more-rewarding-control-scheme.  However also mandatory comment from me about how the game was definitely flawed narratively and the decision to make the first playthrough be pretty much assured to go through all the most gimmicky vehicles gives a very bad first impression of what the ratio of content for the game overall is (i.e. they big up the gyrowing as being a major thing but the two levels you use it on your first playthrough are the ONLY two levels that use it in the whole game. Meanwhile there's a BUNCH of arwing-only levels on the alternate paths).

Personally if they ditched motion controls I'd be kinda sad coz I sorely missed the ability to aim and move in two different directions when I went back to Star Fox 64.  Losing that feels like a step backwards on par with if Assault had demanded you use the D-Pad to control the Arwing like in the SNES games.  Granted, without the two screens I could see the additional control being harder to keep track of, particularly since you'd no longer reasonably be able to move the camera on the external view while still engaging in enemies.

Also while I jokingly mock those who didn't care for the more complex control scheme... I can appreciate that maybe not everyone WANTS a more "feeling like you're actually piloting a vehicle" level of complexity and just want a more traditional, simple shmup experience out of Star Fox.

But this spin-off sounds pretty inoffensive fun if the rumour is true. The only disappointment really is that the franchise doesn't put out "normal" games regularly enough to feel like spin-offs should be a thing but... whatever, between Mario 64 and Sunshine, that franchise was 100% spin-offs for a good 5 years or so.

10 hours ago, LongcrierCat said:

Star Fox Assault is awesome and with the way Beyond Good and Evil 2 is shaping up, Nintendo could take some notes from it and make another Star Fox game like Assault. Oh, and maybe they should bring back Krystal. You know. Just a thought. 

How on earth are these two titles related?  Star Fox Assault was a very linear level-based experience.  Several of those levels were free-roaming but there wasn't much to it, the objectives were always "destroy these 5 points on the map, just in whatever order you like".  BG&E2, as far as I've seen of it, is very much going for as free-roam as free-roam can get, with very emergent gameplay experiences.  Krystal was also an exceptionally boring character so while I like her visual design, I really hope they give her a more interesting personality in future.

[KHCast]

I’m not really a huge Star Fox guy so can’t say I feel to strongly one way or the other. But I always did wonder why they never tried doing something like a open world non linear styled starfox game vs the on rails stuff(not like Ubisoft open world, but open enough while still being linear in regards to the story and direction. Similar to gow or KH3). That always to me felt like the next “big step” for the franchise to attempt. Almost botw-esque I guess in terms of change 

[MetalSkulkBane]

Well, now we know which ending of Star Fox Command is cannon

 

[Marcello]

11 hours ago, Teoskaven said:

Similar to the case of Spyro i have to ask: we have a general rumor thread, is using it instead of making new threads that may lead nowhere that much of a hassle?

Whenever I do that, barely anyone replies, so I just went with a new thread instead. Plus, once this is confirmed it can be converted to the game's main thread.

56 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Well, now we know which ending of Star Fox Command is cannon.

I'm pretty sure you're joking, but even if any of the endings of Command were canon, Zero rebooted the story.

[Teoskaven]

First, that's a very flimsy excuse because it's the argument itself that lets people reply, not how it's presented. Second, you want people deliberatly to talk about something that may not exists at all, effectively wasting time and bytes with a gambit that's not even close to being worth it. Third, you're assuming automatically this is true and it's gonna get confirmed when you have anything but certainty of that happening.
Sure, the Spyro rumor eventually came true but it was months after it started and arguibly about a subject that people were expecting in the first place, so it was more an eventuality than anything. And even then i argued about how it was handled.
Either make a general thread about the franchise to attach this to or use the main rumor thread. This middle ground has no purpose.

[Marcello]

It's not an excuse, because I did nothing warranting an excuse. Of course, I wanted people to talk about it. Why else would I post something? If this ends up being fake, it still won't be my fault people decided to spend their time posting in here. And as I said in the OP, I felt enough people were talking about this rumor that it deserved its own thread rather than being buried in the Rumor thread. If it ends up being fake this thread can still be closed.

[Tornado]

19 hours ago, LongcrierCat said:

It is and it isn't? What I'm getting at is the reductive sense of what seems to be the acceptable way of making a Star Fox game. People really overreacted over Star Fox Adventures and Assault and ever since then we can only get more Star Fox 1/64 Remakes. '

So it isn't. Whether or not people (and certainly people do, for sure, since I remember) want to strictly box the Star Fox series into a rail shooter to the extent of not even expanding the gameplay to be like other similar games with grander scopes (like something akin to the X-Wing titles, or at least the Rogue Squadron games that Assault was somewhat similar but inferior to) is irrelevant to the reactions to a game that apparently isn't even in the same genre.

 

 

People may have been thoroughly unimpressed with the Mario and Sonic spinoffs, but they could at least take solace in the 7 regular Sonic games that were all relatable to the basic concept of the series released in the preceding decade. Star Fox has a barely touched port of a launch window N64 game, a finally released version of a game even older than that, and probably the worst received "name" title Nintendo has released since Other: M.

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And that same attitude is being made abundantly clear in response to the rumour that we're getting a really cool Star Fox Racing Game. 

I don't think people are particularly out of line for being annoyed that one of Nintendo's crown jewel developers, who already revitalized one of Nintendo's dormant IPs (before Nintendo themselves ran it into the ground soon after), have seemingly been working on (at best) a spinoff game to a franchise that hasn't had a good release in over a decade or (at worst) a reboot of the franchise that takes the aesthetic and shoehorns it into a completely different genre as a course correction to the last title.

 

People as a hard rule tend to like to have the steak before the sizzle; and this isn't anywhere near the first time Nintendo has copped shit for it. It's not, as you pointed out and I made a joke about in my first post, the first time Nintendo copped shit for it with the Star Fox franchise alone.

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I mean, would anyone be against all of Nintendo's sci-fi titles taking place in the same universe kind of like it does in Smash Bros but for real and with stories of characters helping each other out?

Since I'm not 12 years old...

18 hours ago, LongcrierCat said:

But my huge problem in this thread is that a lot of the people in here have already passed judgement on the game unfairly. Like sheesh. I thought we as a fandom could be bad. This zealousy for Star Fox is as bad as it is in the Star Wars fandom. No. I'm not taking that back. It's honestly kind of ridiculous. 

Your shared universe fanfic for how Nintendo should handle their (completely unrelated in gameplay, style, lore and especially tone) series going forward is no more valid a reaction to this game than the people bemoaning the fact that the last cornerstone Star Fox game that wasn't a tech demo mess came out three Nintendo consoles ago. If the next game in the series ends up being a spinoff that effectively takes the place of another IP Nintendo controls which has also been ignored for over a decade, and tied up a fan favorite developer in the process, on a conceptual level it would naturally be pretty alienating no matter how good it is.

 

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Teoskaven said:

Similar to the case of Spyro i have to ask: we have a general rumor thread, is using it instead of making new threads that may lead nowhere that much of a hassle?

If the staff had a problem with it, me or Sean probably would have locked it when we posted in it the first time.

[Ashwalking Bat]

3 hours ago, Tornado said:

Since I'm not 12 years old...

Having a open enough mind to imagine something, does not inherently go one to one with childhood or being a young child. This is a stereotype that really needs to die.

[Marcello]

I wouldn't care about Nintendo making F-Zero and Star Fox into one shared universe, but I wouldn't want Metroid to share a universe with Star Fox.

[Tornado]

1 hour ago, Ashwalking Bat said:

Having a open enough mind

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to imagine something,

That wasn't the charge his post was making.

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does not inherently go one to one with childhood or being a young child.

Not seeing the significance of story progression (ie. story vs character driven), setting, world building, internal logic, character backstories, continuity and aesthetics in deference to vague genre labels like "sci fi" certainly seems to suggest that level of understanding of those concepts, sorry.

 

 

 

People care about those things, all of them, in Metroid games. People care about whether Samus' is acting in character. People care about whether the continuity of the series holds up even under heavy scrutiny. People care about whether the story progresses naturally based on the actions of the player/Samus. Perhaps because of its unique position as the one IP in Nintendo's stable that has always been treated absolutely seriously with its narrative, people care so much about these things that Sakamoto's attempt at a pièce de résistance was absolutely torn to shreds even moreso on its narrative failures than it was on being a shallow, linear and repetitive slog with poor controls.

Captain Falcon once punched a guy in the face so hard that the solar system appeared to explode.

 

Now sell those Metroid fans that absolutely eviscerated Other M on having those two series' combine in a completely serious canon crossover with the characters working together.

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This is a stereotype that really needs to die.

You can sling this posturing at someone else. If he wants to explain why the vague description of all three franchises being "sci-fi" (which F-Zero really isn't anyway in comparison, but we'll sidestep that for now) overrules wildly disparate settings, backstories, tone, characterizations and aesthetics between them because it's just so "awesome" of an idea that he doesn't see why people would really have objections, he's perfectly free to.

[Candescence]

A Star Fox racing game described as "Diddy Kong Racng mixed with F-Zero" implies a flight racer with combat. To be perfectly honest, if it's executed well enough, I would be totally down for that.

I'm also gonna echo Jez and say Zero was great and that free-aiming should be the standard for Star Fox going forward, albeit perhaps some modifications to accommodate the lack of dual-screen stuff, though, really, free-aim rail shooting worked perfectly fine for Sin & Punishment.

[The Deleter]

How much I care about this largely depends on what kind of a game it is.

If it's a basic Kart racer, or heck, if it's just F-zero with a different skin, I'm pretty indifferent to that. It may still be neat, especially with Retro at the helm, but both of those are too basic for the IP they're attached to imo

If it's anything resembling what the series typically is, though?...

That's another story entirely

 

Like, imagine the most basic execution here. Basic Arwing controls, looping on-rails tracks, and opponents to race against, with a general power-up/combat system similar to the typical systems. You would already have a flight-based racer with the sublime controls of the typical Arwing physics, tracks that could be just as crazy as what the series already explores with its levels, (flying along a flaring star, through a magnetic sandstorm, or even basic asteroid fields) and fully analog dogfighting mechanics in an aerial racer. Add to that the story mode and boss battles, and you'll have a Sonic Riders-esque original adventure under the hood at least, or a full-on single-player Star Fox game hidden behind it at best!

Why stop there, though? The rumor mentions Diddy Kong racing as a similarity alongside F-zero, and that game featured vehicle modes like Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed did. What if this game capitalizes on the series' typical arsenal of vehicles and has several different transformations, or modes to race with? 

And that's to say nothing of the hub world possibly opening the series up to more elaborate (and optional you twats >:V) 3D World design than the series has had before outside of Zero, the obligatory battle modes for racers, or anything new retro could bring to the table for a game like this

 

Cautiously optimistic for this, and as a fan of the idea of multiplayer... Anything for this series, I really hope something good will come out of it

[Ashwalking Bat]

12 minutes ago, Tornado said:

That wasn't the charge his post was making.

Not seeing the significance of story progression (ie. story vs character driven), setting, world building, internal logic, character backstories, continuity and aesthetics in deference to vague genre labels like "sci fi" certainly seems to suggest that level of understanding of those concepts, sorry.

 

 

 

People care about those things, all of them, in Metroid games. People care about whether Samus' is acting in character. People care about whether the continuity of the series holds up even under heavy scrutiny. People care about whether the story progresses naturally based on the actions of the player/Samus. Perhaps because of its unique position as the one IP in Nintendo's stable that has always been treated absolutely seriously with its narrative, people care so much about these things that Sakamoto's attempt at a pièce de résistance was absolutely torn to shreds even moreso on its narrative failures than it was on being a shallow, linear and repetitive slog with poor controls.

Captain Falcon once punched a guy in the face so hard that the solar system appeared to explode.

 

Now sell those Metroid fans that absolutely eviscerated Other M on having those two series' combine in a completely serious canon crossover with the characters working together.

You can sling this posturing at someone else. If he wants to explain why the vague description of all three franchises being "sci-fi" (which F-Zero really isn't anyway in comparison, but we'll sidestep that for now) overrules wildly disparate settings, backstories, tone, characterizations and aesthetics between them because it's just so "awesome" of an idea that he doesn't see why people would really have objections, he's perfectly free to.

Jeez. All this over a mere observation of opinion with imagination. I merely was saying, in a general sense, that it's silly to think that you'd need to be child to imagine something up in this regard when it comes to universes. Though I suppose not everyone subscribes to that train of thought, which is fine.

I guess I did come off a bit like I was saying you were wrong to think that way. And if I came off like that. I didn't mean it like that.

[LongcrierCat]

On 5/15/2018 at 1:15 AM, JezMM said:

How on earth are these two titles related?  Star Fox Assault was a very linear level-based experience.  Several of those levels were free-roaming but there wasn't much to it, the objectives were always "destroy these 5 points on the map, just in whatever order you like".  BG&E2, as far as I've seen of it, is very much going for as free-roam as free-roam can get, with very emergent gameplay experiences.  Krystal was also an exceptionally boring character so while I like her visual design, I really hope they give her a more interesting personality in future.

Beyond Good and Evil 2 is a sequel to a game that had a linear story based progression to it that decided to expand the world. 

I'm saying that the same could happen for Star Fox. Instead of making a linear Star Fox again we could even have one where you choose the paths like you did in the first game or bring back that really cool Real Time Strategy gameplay that Star Fox 2 did that should honestly come back if you ask me. It was done so well and I get pretty engrossed when I play 2. It feels more open to me than the first game because I get the choice to go save a planet from Andross's influence in the game plan. 

And I'm not the biggest fan of rail shooters but I do like the dogfighting. I find that rail shooters kind of have you at a set pace that could either make the game too short or too long depending on how they were made. 

 

16 hours ago, Tornado said:

So it isn't. Whether or not people (and certainly people do, for sure, since I remember) want to strictly box the Star Fox series into a rail shooter to the extent of not even expanding the gameplay to be like other similar games with grander scopes (like something akin to the X-Wing titles, or at least the Rogue Squadron games that Assault was somewhat similar but inferior to) is irrelevant to the reactions to a game that apparently isn't even in the same genre.

 

 

People may have been thoroughly unimpressed with the Mario and Sonic spinoffs, but they could at least take solace in the 7 regular Sonic games that were all relatable to the basic concept of the series released in the preceding decade. Star Fox has a barely touched port of a launch window N64 game, a finally released version of a game even older than that, and probably the worst received "name" title Nintendo has released since Other: M.

I don't think people are particularly out of line for being annoyed that one of Nintendo's crown jewel developers, who already revitalized one of Nintendo's dormant IPs (before Nintendo themselves ran it into the ground soon after), have seemingly been working on (at best) a spinoff game to a franchise that hasn't had a good release in over a decade or (at worst) a reboot of the franchise that takes the aesthetic and shoehorns it into a completely different genre as a course correction to the last title.

 

People as a hard rule tend to like to have the steak before the sizzle; and this isn't anywhere near the first time Nintendo has copped shit for it. It's not, as you pointed out and I made a joke about in my first post, the first time Nintendo copped shit for it with the Star Fox franchise alone.

Since I'm not 12 years old...

Your shared universe fanfic for how Nintendo should handle their (completely unrelated in gameplay, style, lore and especially tone) series going forward is no more valid a reaction to this game than the people bemoaning the fact that the last cornerstone Star Fox game that wasn't a tech demo mess came out three Nintendo consoles ago. If the next game in the series ends up being a spinoff that effectively takes the place of another IP Nintendo controls which has also been ignored for over a decade, and tied up a fan favorite developer in the process, on a conceptual level it would naturally be pretty alienating no matter how good it is.

Yeah. That's kind of it though is that I'm a huge Metroid fan but Federation Force didn't offend me like it did some of you. At least it was a pretty alright game that got the ball rolling for more Metroid. 

I blame the bad controls of Zero on Miyamoto being way into the gimmick of getting to have two screens and I'm sorry, but yes. That game controls badly, I don't get why anyone defends it. Some people would just like a fun, streamlined, easy to get into game. The makings of a great Star Fox was in there, but the controls were honestly dreadful. Making people multitask and look at and do things across two screens may work but it's kind of bad game design. 

I really don't think all series should be set up like the Marvel Cinematic Universe. So many people have failed so hard at doing it. But wow. 

That was a level of condescension I wasn't ready for. I was almost considering leaving that alone, but that was supremely shitty to say. 

I'm sorry. Maybe Star Fox needs to be reinvented in Nintendo's eyes? Frankly, I don't blame them. Where Metroid has mostly good games to rely on, you don't get to say that Star Fox has a really good history as an IP. So your logic is to do the thing it was known for to begin with. Alright.

Buuuuuut, that's kind of old and Nintendo wants to do something new with it. 

12 hours ago, Tornado said:

That wasn't the charge his post was making.

Not seeing the significance of story progression (ie. story vs character driven), setting, world building, internal logic, character backstories, continuity and aesthetics in deference to vague genre labels like "sci fi" certainly seems to suggest that level of understanding of those concepts, sorry.

WOW. WOW. 

Did you just misgender me? Did you seriously just misgender me?  In the middle of this community which I've known to be LGBT friendly for years? You couldn't have at least addressed me as they? Thanks, you just reminded me why I leave the Sonic fandom over and over again. 

That makes me want to not even talk to you about story tone and continuity in these series. Yeah, F-Zero, Metroid, and Star Fox are pretty different things. That doesn't matter to me. I'm thinking in the way that kids would like to see it. And you know what kids like? Smash Bros. Fun things where their favourite characters interact and go on fun adventures together.  

So yeah, forgive me for being a "12" year old trans girl that wants to think that Nintendo could do more with their science fiction worlds. I guess that just makes me so naive and so hard to talk to for you that you immediately go to insulting my intelligence. Thank you, Anime Avatar Person. You sure showed me. 

God. I expect Site Staff to behave better than this. 

[KHCast]

2 minutes ago, LongcrierCat said:

Beyond Good and Evil 2 is a sequel to a game that had a linear story based progression to it that decided to expand the world. 

Ignoring that it’s likely just due to Ubisoft’s, and the AAA industries, current hard on for “open world” games. Nintendo shouldn’t just do it for the sake of it and make a non linear experience that could potentially damage more than build on. They can still very much do linear esque stories/games well, and Star Fox certainly could work with more in that realm before jumping to complete and total open world on no mans sky levels 

[JezMM]

3 minutes ago, LongcrierCat said:

Beyond Good and Evil 2 is a sequel to a game that had a linear story based progression to it that decided to expand the world. 

I'm saying that the same could happen for Star Fox. Instead of making a linear Star Fox again we could even have one where you choose the paths like you did in the first game or bring back that really cool Real Time Strategy gameplay that Star Fox 2 did that should honestly come back if you ask me. It was done so well and I get pretty engrossed when I play 2. It feels more open to me than the first game because I get the choice to go save a planet from Andross's influence in the game plan. 

And I'm not the biggest fan of rail shooters but I do like the dogfighting. I find that rail shooters kind of have you at a set pace that could either make the game too short or too long depending on how they were made.

I think this comes down to personal taste then, because I become less interested in BG&E2 the more I see of it.  I don't really care about this big impossibly giant game world because I know it can't feasibly be filled with carefully crafted, tightly designed gameplay experiences, it's gonna be "generated" to some degree (I'm thinking MAJOR with what they're going for scale-wise).  What I loved about BG&E1 was it's tight, lovingly crafted stage design and intimate story.  BG&E2 contains none of that and I'll be very impressed if the final game feels like part of the same franchise (though I hope it's good regardless, naturally).

As for Star Fox, while I enjoyed my Star Fox 2 playthrough when I finally played it properly on the mini SNES, I was disappointed at how little there was in terms of carefully crafted stage design.  There were some moments of interest, but by the end of the game I realised all the free-roam really consisted of was finding big switches to open doors and moving on.  It was still good, but I missed the variety of other Star Fox games, and I've always considered dogfight stages to be less interesting and just there to break up the on-rails ones.  Star Fox Command on DS didn't even hold my attention past the first few missions.

[LongcrierCat]

That's fair. I like linear story based games. But I'd like to see if they could maybe do some more of the Assault stuff that was getting pretty eclectic with what happened in the gameplay. 

And yes, I know, the open world stuff has its roots in the Triple A gaming industry but that doesn't mean it's all bad. But I mean, it's an idea of how Nintendo could expand Star Fox if they wanted to. Okay? 

[Celestia]

2 hours ago, LongcrierCat said:

Did you just misgender me? Did you seriously just misgender me?  In the middle of this community which I've known to be LGBT friendly for years? You couldn't have at least addressed me as they? Thanks, you just reminded me why I leave the Sonic fandom over and over again. 

I can empathize, I know that sort of thing is irritating at best and harmful at worst, and maybe I can't speak for Tornado's intent, but...his visit to your profile was hours before that post, going by the time stamp. (Which is more noticeable if you hover over "x hours ago.") Honest mistakes do happen.

More to the point, if you have any problems with a staff member's behavior, please contact an admin.

[Apollo Chungus]

I've had this rumour on my mind the last couple of days, or the reaction to the rumour to be more exact, because it's gotten me pretty fascinated. Maybe I've not been keeping tabs in the right circles, but this is the first time in a while where there's been something of a controversy about a game existing (not here specifically, but in general). It's not a controversy about shitty business practices, or overly hyped, poorly executed ideas, but just that a game could possibly exist. And I'm not saying to shit on the people who have a legitimate grievance with Star Fox Racing; most folks do have a good reason for being annoyed (which I'll get onto in a bit).

But is it me or is the nature of the reaction a bit... well, hyperbolic?

To preface this post, I'm not a fan of any of the series being discussed. Star Fox, Donkey Kong, F-Zero, even Diddy Kong Racing depending on which circles you move in: they do the square root of sod all for me, so these opinions are more just observations from an outsider who just finds an aspect of this discussion rather intriguing.

See, the thing that bugs me about this whole discussion is how the existence of Star Fox Racing is being treated as a zero-sum game: either this game is happening at the expense of a potential new F-Zero/DKR, or Retro Studios is making this instead of Donkey Kong Country Returns 3 or some other game and that the games not being made now will never be made. Okay, I get that the 'AAA' gaming industry has had a really extremist attitude in regards to producing games lately, where publishers with countless franchises under their belts only make anything from a couple of those series (EA, Ubisoft, Activision...), but Nintendo has always been in its own strange reality in that regard.

As discussed in this video by Game Maker's Toolkit (along with sources), Nintendo largely make games that have something new to offer. Whether or not that franchise is popular doesn't matter too much: if there's nothing unique they feel they can do, they won't do anything with it. This is why there hasn't been a new F-Zero game since 2005, since it wasn't felt that the series was evolving in any meaningful capacity. The only Punch-Out!! made in the last twenty years was the Wii game, and it was because the system's motion controls could be used to create a new, interesting way to play a boxing game. And on the subject of Star Fox, this was why the series took a decade long break after Command, and only came back for Zero when the Wii U's gamepad provided the opportunity to do something with the arcade shooter gameplay that hadn't been done before.

This can sound a bit weird and esoteric, especially if you're not really interested in innovation but just want a new game, but because Nintendo are financially well off, they can afford to not make certain series for years because they simply don't want to. That can get frustrating, especially when you remember how many studios can't produce a new game in X, Y and Z series because they wouldn't be profitable enough and could risk the studio's continuing existence (see: SEGA, who are something of a poster-boy in this regard), but that's just how Nintendo operate.

I bring all this up because if Nintendo wanted to do a new F-Zero, or even a new Diddy Kong Racing, there's nothing in the world stopping them from doing so (or having done so over the years) beyond their own lack of interest. There's no reason they couldn't make those games themselves, or delegate the development duties to another developer who they deem worthy enough for the job. And the idea that multiple racing games existing at once would be seen as an unnecessary resource drain or anything negative is pretty silly - otherwise, there's no way that Mario Kart 64, F-Zero X and the original Diddy Kong Racing would have been made within the span of two years if that was such a concern (I know it's twenty years ago, but not enough has changed on Nintendo's side to make that comparison invalid).

The fact of the matter is that Nintendo, at least as far as we know, don't seem interested in making a new F-Zero/Diddy Kong Racing right now and the possible existence of Star Fox Racing changes nothing about that, for better or worse.

Meanwhile, when it comes to Retro Studios making this game instead of something else, can I ask a question: how many people work in Retro Studios? Granted, I couldn't find any definitive numbers on their staff size (not even on their own website), but I bring this up because I doubt every single person in Retro is working on this game. Unless they're a paltry-sized team with every employee performing multiple important roles, there's no reason that a portion of the studio couldn't be working on another project at the same time as this. Game development studios tend to be pretty good at tackling multiple projects at once, and with a team as good as Retro, I have no reason to doubt their ability to do the same.

I reckon that if they are making this game, Retro also have something else in the works. It could be a new Donkey Kong, or maybe it's something else altogether, but they're definitely not just working on Star Fox Racing. Hell, even if they were, it doesn't mean that we'll never get DKCR3 or whatever from them: it just means that we might have to wait a little while for that next game.

Just to reiterate, I get the frustration that people have with the idea that this game exists. It's yet another Star Fox game that completely changes the gameplay type, meaning that Star Fox has officially had no game-to-game consistency since 1998. It's a racing spin-off for a series that has absolutely nothing to do with that genre, when there are other Nintendo series that are about racing and could do with a new game. It would be awesome for Retro to put the cap on their DK games with a third game (one that would hopefully do better than Tropical Freeze originally did), but they're making this weird spin-off instead. And the reasons go on...

But I feel that it's worth pointing out that things aren't as doom-and-gloom or extremist as some people make them out to be. At worst, it's pretty dang annoying, but it shouldn't warrant vile hatred or vicious arguments (especially when it's still a rumour). If any of this comes off as patronising or insulting, I apologize in advance for that.

[KHCast]

If we’re using this to claim Nintendo aren’t intetested in making main games from those franchises, we should have used that logic for federation force before the announcement of MP4. Also

4 minutes ago, Apollo Chungus said:

Nintendo largely make games that have something new to offer. Whether or not that franchise is popular doesn't matter too much: if there's nothing unique they feel they can do, they won't do anything with it.

That’s funny when Pokémon, Smash, and NSMB, and Mario kart until 8, have been big franchises that didn’t have that “innovation” idea in mind. Hell, many have complained about these franchises not being “unique” enough in the past. So this comes off like cherry picking Nintendo titles to make the argument that Nintendo only make games that spice up things.

[Wraith]

48 minutes ago, KHCast said:

If we’re using this to claim Nintendo aren’t intetested in making main games from those franchises, we should have used that logic for federation force before the announcement of MP4. 

we did