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RUMOR: Star Fox "Grand Prix" (Retro Studios, Diddy Kong Racing x F-Zero)

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1 minute ago, KHCast said:

My point being it turned out wrong our assumptions, so why suddenly act like this situation is different?

Well think of it this way, it's been two years since Federation Force came out and we haven't seen what Prime 4 plays like yet. I think the frustration is more a proper Star Fox game being put off even longer for this.

I'm not really bothered myself and think this game could be cool, but it's easy to see where the frustration is coming from. Like, of course a proper Star Fox game will probably be made eventually, but with how Nintendo has been jerking the series around, it's a frustrating wait.

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Federation Force was an even bigger mess, because we already had confirmation from Nintendo that both 2D and 3D Metroid games were in development before and after the game was revealed. Metroid fans were just too burned out to care at the time. Plus stuff like Chibi Robot and Awakening's future-holding roles for their series probably helped make the situation seem more dire, in terms of how executive decisions for franchises went at the time.

It's kinda silly to act like Zero wasn't a proper Star Fox game through and through, though. The gimmick is its own problem, but the developers still have a handle on what the core of the franchise was and is, unlike, say, Sakamoto after Other M's narrative.

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11 hours ago, LongcrierCat said:

That was a level of condescension I wasn't ready for

You've done nothing in this thread but throw barbs like this:

On 5/14/2018 at 5:35 PM, LongcrierCat said:

But my huge problem in this thread is that a lot of the people in here have already passed judgement on the game unfairly. Like sheesh. I thought we as a fandom could be bad. This zealousy for Star Fox is as bad as it is in the Star Wars fandom. No. I'm not taking that back. It's honestly kind of ridiculous

In the course of your repeated attempts to imply that people even in this thread who aren't hip to the idea of a Star Fox racing game with no actual Star Fox game worth a shit existing in the past decade must be people who can't get through the day without jacking it to Star Fox 64 or something.

 

Or, put another way: Don't start none. Won't be none.

 

 

 

 

 

That being said:

11 hours ago, LongcrierCat said:

WOW. WOW

Did you just misgender me? Did you seriously just misgender me?

No. Why don't you calm the ever loving fuck down and not immediately assume that I have a detailed record of your real life history and deliberately went out of my way to attack you for being transgender because of a fucking Star Fox game. I've been on this forum for fifteen years and I've never seen someone try to pull the shit you just accused me of; and for what? Because I went on your profile at one point over the course of the day?

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23 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

 

It's kinda silly to act like Zero wasn't a proper Star Fox game through and through, though. The gimmick is its own problem, but the developers still have a handle on what the core of the franchise was and is, unlike, say, Sakamoto after Other M's narrative.

The controls make Zero inherently different from the other Star Fox games even if the aesthetic is trying desperately to convince people otherwise. Speaking as a Starfox 64 fanboy, it's not what I'm looking for. 

On the flipside, much as a blunder as Other M was, Sakamoto did turn out Samus Returns, which is as Metroid as you can get. Miyamoto or whoever is in charge of Star Fox now needs to release a game that shows they "get it" if they want to quell the demand, imo. The metroid fandom has calmed down significantly since Nintendo threw them some bones.

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35 minutes ago, Tornado said:

You've done nothing in this thread but throw barbs like this:

In the course of your repeated attempts to imply that people even in this thread who aren't hip to the idea of a Star Fox racing game with no actual Star Fox game worth a shit existing in the past decade must be people who can't get through the day without jacking it to Star Fox 64 or something.

 

Or, put another way: Don't start none. Won't be none.

That being said:

No. Why don't you calm the ever loving fuck down and not immediately assume that I have a detailed record of your real life history and deliberately went out of my way to attack you for being transgender because of a fucking Star Fox game. I've been on this forum for fifteen years and I've never seen someone try to pull the shit you just accused me of; and for what? Because I went on your profile at one point over the course of the day?

Okay. 

So here's my problem. 

The very first posts of this topic were people being pretty annoyed that this game was being made. Some people liked it while the dissenters were pretty vocal about it. Me? I view it as a video game. This isn't that big of a thing to get upset over like Gamers make it out to be from a series that had nine games in the last 25 years and two of those games were Star Fox 64/1 remakes, making half the series basically the first game.

The original Star Fox was made the way it was to push the tech limits of the SNES and really wow people. Now, Nintendo can't really wow people like that anymore with Star Fox so where's the next innovation to take it in? Star Fox doesn't really have set standards like Sonic does. Well. Okay. Like Sonic should

And like people keep saying no one was really warm to the idea of FPS Metroid when Prime was first being shown and that was the first Metroid game in years after Super Metroid in 1993. It was basically a dormant franchise. So was Kid Icarus where there's only two major games outside of Smash Bros. The NES original and Uprsising on the 3DS and they're both wildly different games. 

I just don't understand why there was some kind of groupthink agreement about how Star Fox should have some purely rail shooter mixed in among dogfighting gameplay. Because you said that with Sonic and Mario if people didn't like it that they have plenty of Mario and Sonic solo games to play in  between. Okay, but how much of a mixed bag has Sonic been? I've been in Sonic communities for the last 13 years and I've seen a lot of different opinions. 

Okay, so yeah, it would be cool if a Star Fox game could get it right like the way the fans want it to. But that fanbase, in Nintendo's eyes, is probably small. So you want to appeal to more than just the core fanbase. That should have been alright. 

Anyways. 

---------------------------------------------------

Reason I didn't take calmly to you misgendering me was that it was the straw that broke my back. I'm okay with differing opinions but if anything I feel that you were being aggressive first. I mean okay. I have a lot of personal issues I've got going on and I snapped on a public Sonic forum. That's my mistake. I come here to kind of have some civil discussion and talk about games. I need to unstress from life. 

But misgendering is kind of a hot button topic because I deal with that all of the time and I don't say anything. I'm actually kind of patient about this and try not to be confrontational all of the time. You're right. You don't know me as a person. I'm sorry. 

... but please don't say I'm overreacting when you were already kind of being aggressive? I don't know. Maybe this just got me in more trouble. 

-----------------------------------

 

So back on Star Fox. I can see the problem. It's like Prime. Old Metroid fans from the NES and SNES probably couldn't adapt to FPS Metroid but then that's when Nintendo threw them a bone with the GBA games which were 2D Metroids that played like the old stuff. Everyone was pretty happy about it. 

I'd like to see them do the same for Star Fox. But they don't know what they're doing and they honestly want to try something new and hope you like it since Zero was a disappointment after years of trying to make a new Star Fox that recaptured what the fans liked about it in the first place. But I kind of see it that the whole series has had a rocky history and this may sound like the best route to them with Grand Prix. 

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40 minutes ago, LongcrierCat said:

but please don't say I'm overreacting when you were already kind of being aggressive?

No, I'm going to say you were overreacting. You implied I was transphobic in multiple places on this forum and then called out the integrity of the entire moderation staff multiple times as a result of it. The only fucking basis you had to imply that I was transphobic in multiple places on this forum was because I went on your profile at some point in the past 24 hours when you don't even know what for, and I was being forceful in an argument after you had already thrown around a bunch of passive aggressive strawman bullshit at everyone in this thread who didn't immediately fall down and praise how awesome you think the idea in the OP is.

 

 

Oh no. I used the wrong pronoun when I didn't see a dissertation about your life struggles with transgender issues while I was looking through your posting history (accessed through your profile page) to see if I ever remembered talking to you before. I'm not going to strike you for any of this, even though I'm really pissed off that you had the gall to imply I was transphobic in multiple places on this forum when you can't even decide whether I did on purpose, deliberately didn't care or maybe just didn't go out of my way to learn your life story before responding to you to make sure you didn't get offended (of course, not that that uncertainty was enough to take pause or anything). I am going to suggest you drop the persecution complex, though, as you'll be much happier as a person once you stop thinking everyone is out to get you.

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2 hours ago, Josh said:

The controls make Zero inherently different from the other Star Fox games even if the aesthetic is trying desperately to convince people otherwise. Speaking as a Starfox 64 fanboy, it's not what I'm looking for. 

On the flipside, much as a blunder as Other M was, Sakamoto did turn out Samus Returns, which is as Metroid as you can get. Miyamoto or whoever is in charge of Star Fox now needs to release a game that shows they "get it" if they want to quell the demand, imo. The metroid fandom has calmed down significantly since Nintendo threw them some bones.

Which would basically entail releasing the same game as Zero without motion controls, either as a port or as a new game with the same design, sans controls. At least in theory.

The aesthetic doesn't need to convince. The gameplay design is the same, the mechanics are the same, the depth is the same. The aesthetic is just the rest of the identity as a proper Star Fox.

There's other qualifications that people want for an ideal sequel in this day and age, rather than just a proper Star Fox game, bare minimum, and I get that to some degree, but it's more of a proper Star Fox game than Assault, Command, Adventures, and even Star Fox 2 in some ways.

 

I still disagree with the controls inherently changing the core of the game to the same degree you're saying they do, though. I've played the entire game without motion controls or cockpit view outside of two or three small examples where it's required. When I can ignore the main inherent difference of the game to that degree with no detriment outside of more rigid movement requirements and less flexibility, that's not exactly a massive catalyst to the core of the game itself. (not to say them existing isn't a catalyst for players when they attempt to wrangle it, though)

If the game actually pushed the envelope to the point where that kind of flexibility was required to even beat these stages and all the bosses in the first place, bare minimum, then we'd have a Skyward Sword on our hands, and the entire core would be inherently different, yeah. But it's relatively untouched for the most part, bc you can still shoot everything down with forward-firing lasers.

Buuuut I'm pretty sure I've said these things before, and it's just going around in circles again, so I dunno. I don't think it's as simple as a "agree to disagree" situation, but eh...

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54 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Which would basically entail releasing the same game as Zero without motion controls, either as a port or as a new game with the same design, sans controls. At least in theory.

The aesthetic doesn't need to convince. The gameplay design is the same, the mechanics are the same, the depth is the same. The aesthetic is just the rest of the identity as a proper Star Fox.

There's other qualifications that people want for an ideal sequel in this day and age, rather than just a proper Star Fox game, bare minimum, and I get that to some degree, but it's more of a proper Star Fox game than Assault, Command, Adventures, and even Star Fox 2 in some ways.

.Technically it's more of a proper Star Fox than those games, but that's gonna vary from person to person, and even outside the controls, Zero is coming up short for me.

Free aiming isn't actually a bad idea as far as ideas to freshen up Star Fox goes, but god it's impossible for me to ignore how much more intuitive this would be for everyone if it was on the fucking Wii Remote and Nunchuck and not the Gamepad. That, along with pretty much every other new gimmick or idea they had like the cockpit view or the new vehicles puts me off the game. I can technically put together a path through the game where I can avoid a lot of these sequences sure, but then I don't need as much yellow tape to enjoy Star Fox 64. Star Fox Zero is, at best, a worse game than Star Fox 64. 

And this is ignoring the fact that the game aesthetically and story wise doesn't really have an identity of it's own, but I'm assuming this is a Samus Returns/A Link Between Worlds type situation where we're more forgiving of those aspects because it's a back to basics kind of game. 
 

Zero is as much of a Star Fox game as those to me because it takes the IP, meanders around with gimmicks and otherwise doesn't scratch the itch that 64 does, still. There more to it than "is this more or less of a proper Star Fox game." It's not what I want and wasn't good enough on it's own merits for me to enjoy it, so it can go with the other 5 or so Star Fox games that fall into that exact description. It is very much an agree to disagree situation, and I feel like it's clear that a lot of people aren't so hot on Zero for similar reasons.

But hey props to you if you had fun with it. I don't like hating video games. I'd like to be a part of the "fun" side of the conversation where I can gush about the game, but it's just not what I want from this series at all. 

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Okay. Yeah. I was acting out of line and I kind of made a generalization about the Star Fox fandom. I just viewed this as a game, but forgot that some people have a strong connection to this series that matters more than it being a game. That was a mistake. I should have stayed in my lane and accepted criticism of how I said my piece. 

I also shouldn't have blown up over the misgendering. Another mistake. I admit to being angry and venting out in accident and taking it out on you, @Tornado. I could have been more calm about my gender. This was the wrong place for me to take my frustration of what's going on in my personal life in. You didn't deserve that. I'm sorry. 

I'm sorry I made a generalization, helped escalate the situation, and ultimately made this a pain to talk about. 

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On 16/05/2018 at 4:52 PM, JezMM said:

I think this comes down to personal taste then, because I become less interested in BG&E2 the more I see of it.  I don't really care about this big impossibly giant game world because I know it can't feasibly be filled with carefully crafted, tightly designed gameplay experiences, it's gonna be "generated" to some degree (I'm thinking MAJOR with what they're going for scale-wise).  What I loved about BG&E1 was it's tight, lovingly crafted stage design and intimate story.  BG&E2 contains none of that and I'll be very impressed if the final game feels like part of the same franchise (though I hope it's good regardless, naturally).

I might as well bring this up, as while I understand why the different scope might put you off BG&E2, but I honestly wasn't surprised by the game's significantly larger scope and world, because the original BG&E was also supposed to have a significantly bigger scope as well - multiple planets to visit and explore, more characters, and a an entire third alien race who would've taken the primary antagonist role that the DomZ have in the final game.

I'm skeptical of how good the final game is gonna be as well, but this seems to be the dream game Michel Ancel has been wanting to make since Rayman 2, so I really doubt he'll want to screw this one up.

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Liam Robertson apparently shared some more info on the game on his podcast. 

It's patreon only but here's what people are saying the details are

 

Spoiler

What Liam said on his podcast from what he’s heard

- The game is not like F-Zero
- He’s seen a more complete version of the logo
- The game is based on the arwing (which differentiates it from F-Zero)
- He was told the title “Star Fox Grand Prix” was a tentative title
- The game is a mixture between classic Star Fox and racing
- You shoot enemies to propel forward and get combos; you can shoot other players too
- Each Grand Prix is three tracks with a boss fight- where the boss comes onto the track
- It has a big hub area where you can interact with the Star Fox characters
- You pick up new missions at the hub and there’s story content to go through
- The game looks really really good in motion
- He also heard Retro was considering adding cameos like Donkey Kong

Take it with a grain of salt of course, but if this pans out it sounds fantastic tbh

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39 minutes ago, Josh said:

Liam Robertson apparently shared some more info on the game on his podcast. 

It's patreon only but here's what people are saying the details are

 

  Reveal hidden contents

What Liam said on his podcast from what he’s heard

- The game is not like F-Zero
- He’s seen a more complete version of the logo
- The game is based on the arwing (which differentiates it from F-Zero)
- He was told the title “Star Fox Grand Prix” was a tentative title
- The game is a mixture between classic Star Fox and racing
- You shoot enemies to propel forward and get combos; you can shoot other players too
- Each Grand Prix is three tracks with a boss fight- where the boss comes onto the track
- It has a big hub area where you can interact with the Star Fox characters
- You pick up new missions at the hub and there’s story content to go through
- The game looks really really good in motion
- He also heard Retro was considering adding cameos like Donkey Kong

Take it with a grain of salt of course, but if this pans out it sounds fantastic tbh

Yeah, it does sound a lot better. And this sounds like it'll be more akin to Wipeout in some ways with the basic Star Fox enemies and bosses to fight too. I actually really am looking forward to what this will look like when gameplay is released.

32 minutes ago, Marcello said:

Also, I don't think I want DK in this.

There is really no garentee that will the case. They were just mentioning him as a example.

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I feel like if they did a DK guest character it'd be Diddy rather than DK himself. One of the rumors is that this started as Diddy Kong Racing 2, and don't forget that Tricky actually debuted in Diddy Kong Racing before being added into Dinosaur Planet (which later ended up becoming Star Fox Adventures). Diddy has also been known to fly in Diddy Kong Racing, granted, it was a plane rather than a space ship.

 

Diddy Kong Racing also had the final world of the game set on another planet (Wizpig is an alien):

https://www.mariowiki.com/Future_Fun_Land

 

So yeah, it'd be weird, but I could actually see it happen. And, well, its not like these things haven't had AU situations happen, like James McCloud appearing as a human in F-Zero. I've even seen some people suggesting they pull the opposite and make Captain Falcon appear... as an actual Falcon. :P 

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14 hours ago, Josh said:

Liam Robertson apparently shared some more info on the game on his podcast. 

It's patreon only but here's what people are saying the details are

 

  Hide contents

What Liam said on his podcast from what he’s heard

- The game is not like F-Zero
- He’s seen a more complete version of the logo
- The game is based on the arwing (which differentiates it from F-Zero)
- He was told the title “Star Fox Grand Prix” was a tentative title
- The game is a mixture between classic Star Fox and racing
- You shoot enemies to propel forward and get combos; you can shoot other players too
- Each Grand Prix is three tracks with a boss fight- where the boss comes onto the track
- It has a big hub area where you can interact with the Star Fox characters
- You pick up new missions at the hub and there’s story content to go through
- The game looks really really good in motion
- He also heard Retro was considering adding cameos like Donkey Kong

Take it with a grain of salt of course, but if this pans out it sounds fantastic tbh

Holy smokes it's a full on Star Fox game with all the trappings if this is true

I hope we have more agency with our speed than simply "shoot enemies = go fast", though. The dogfighting could be one of the most interesting aspects of the gameplay, so I hope the full loop/brake/barrel roll moveset is there, and they all fit different situations. Like if someone's shooting at you and they're relatively close, you risk loosing ground to brake or loop behind them and shoot them out of the sky, or you stay ahead and try to evade for as long as possible till you get enough boost

And maybe the boost itself builds up with more enemies you kill, and you can save it till the right time for longer burn time or higher speeds, kinda like Redout's boost mechanic:

If more enemies appear further back in the pack to make up for the distance, it could give the players behind a chance to catch up to the leaders if they're aggressive enough. It'd be up to the leaders to fend the up-and-comers off long enough to fill their boost gauges out, then take off from the pack again if they survived, into the sparser, but safer front end of the race.

 

If not, though, it'll just be "Star Fox: Versus edition" where you compete for the highest scores in real time, though, which is also good. Especially if they carry over the scoring mechanics from 64 and Zero; high level play would be a madhouse in terms of precision required, lmao

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Holy crap, a shoot-em-up racer? I never knew I wanted this. That sounds dope as fuck. And from reading the ERA thread on this rumor, I also found out there's an arcade SHUMP called Kingdom Grandprix that is basically a vertical SHUMP but also racing against seven other racers, and also gives you either shoot by tapping the fire button or speeding up by holding it down, and how fast you go depends on how close to the top of the screen you are.

Knowing Retro, I think this will look gorgeous and being a fucking blast to play.

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15 hours ago, JaidynReiman said:

So yeah, it'd be weird, but I could actually see it happen. And, well, its not like these things haven't had AU situations happen, like James McCloud appearing as a human in F-Zero. I've even seen some people suggesting they pull the opposite and make Captain Falcon appear... as an actual Falcon. :P 

1

So, Falco?

On the subject of Falco, though, I really hope they make everyone on the team have more unique looks. They're mercenaries, not part of an official army, so having them all so uniform is kind of lame. The only game that did that off the top of my head in Adventures:

kjaJ48E.jpgk5vV3gn.png

 

Though, I'd want Slippy to be dressed more like a mechanic and also have him have his prayer beads again to show he has a spiritual side.

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