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NiTROACTiVE

Is There Any Hope For The Archie Sonic Pre-Reboot Cast?

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You know, I've been thinking about this for quite some time ever since the Archie Sonic comics were cancelled on 7/19/2017, and it's pretty disturbing to some extent.

Ever since the reboot of STH #252, there was never any mention of any pre-reboot characters not made by Ian Flynn. This also resulted in more mandates on the comic by SEGA. What's worse is that from what I heard, Ken Penders wanted full control of his characters if anyone wanted to make arrangements with him, which is ironic since he had full control on the comics back in the day.

Not many people seem to care about those characters anymore, especially when it came to this poll posted by TSSZ over five years ago. So it's pretty sad when characters with potential become forgotten over time. The poll may have been just about Ken's characters, but I'm sure the characters by other creators aren't being brought up more than his. People also seem to just talk about Ian Flynn's characters nowadays, and I think he's a good writer, but just imagine how cool the removed characters could have been if the reboot never happened.

So is there any hope for these said characters? It would be nice if someone knocked some sense into Penders, so we could possibly see these characters in IDW Sonic, a new cartoon show, or a spinoff game series based on Archie Sonic. Even if it's as likely as trying to find a lost wedding ring in a desert, it still would be really nice.

 

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The modern cast is big enough as it is and Forces shows us Sonic Team has no qualms with just shoehorning them where they don't belong (see Knuckles the Commander). No room for Archie.

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Not trying to be rude, but if not even the Freedom Fighters or the post-reboot characters are appearing, then pre-reboot characters appearing is a pipe dream beyond a pipe dream. All we have at this point is them living on in fan works - but maybe that's not so bad, at the end of the day. I mean, series ending is a fairly normal occurrence, even if it can be disappointing and frustrating. But the fans can still keep them alive and even tell new stories about them, and that can be a great thing.

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They probably wouldn’t even work with the tone and world of IDW, even! But Flynn could always try and regroup the rights to at least some of them, like he said he wanted to do with the Fleetway characters. 

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They'd need to be acquired from their owners. Ian has stated there are legal issues with characters he created for the post-reboot, so if those aren't clear cut that should tell you how even harder it would be for the non-Ian stuff. Is the possibility zero though? No, technically if IDW saw enough profit in it they could try to sort out those various issues. They still barely have the ip though, there's no reason for them to even consider it at this stage. If somewhere down the line a Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Classic Sonic, Shadow, Eggman, Amy, whathaveyou books are all running monthly because the books are outrageously popular and are bringing in money like it's going out of style - then yeah, maybe IDW would see an opportunity for a new niche series based on Archie and would acquire the dead characters.

But as has been stated, that's a pipe dream within a pipe dream. I feel confident that's not going to happen. Ever. I love a lot of the pre-reboot cast, but I know that their opportunity to see use in an official Sonic book has ended.

If you're attached to the Archie cast, continue asking for and hope for the Freedom Fighters to show up. If they do, then ask for more AOSTH/SatAM characters like Scratch, Grounder, or Snively. If they keep seeing a demand for obscure characters Sega actually owns, and they generate interest and profit accordingly, that's your best chance at seeing them go for something Sega doesn't own. But don't hold your breath. Don't expect anything. Don't act with the idea it'll actually work. Because it likely won't.

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27 minutes ago, A person, that exists said:

I mean, why would anyone want them to return?

Do you REALLY want a good chunk of the cast to be recolored echidnas again? 

Because there are plenty of good pre-reboot characters, even if they could have used more development, such as Geoffrey St. John and Mina Mongoose.

As for the echidnas, they should stick with the more memorable ones such as Julie-Su, Lien-Da, Remington, Enerjak, Dr. Finitevus and Mari-An.

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4 minutes ago, NiTROACTiVE said:

Because there are plenty of good pre-reboot characters, even if they could have used more development, such as Geoffrey St. John and Mina Mongoose.

Mina-yes, but Geoffery is kinda owned by Ken Penders, and I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't want to give him back to Sega/IDW. Not to mention that he kinda got worse as time went on.

4 minutes ago, NiTROACTiVE said:

As for the echidnas, they should stick with the more memorable ones such as Julie-Su, Lien-Da, Remington, Enerjak, Dr. Finitevus and Mari-An.

Again, they're all owned by Penders, and we know how stubborn that guy is.

Also, wasn't Enerjak just a Hyper-Form thingy for echidnas?

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The Freedom Fighters? Maybe, there's a...decent chance they could come back, I suppose. At least, Ian Flynn has expressed interest in their return.

But pre-Genesis Wave? With all the legal trouble with Ken Penders? Absolutely not, that's like, the entire reason they were wiped from the comics to begin with and I doubt Sega is too eager to speak with Ken any time soon.

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48 minutes ago, A person, that exists said:

Also, wasn't Enerjak just a Hyper-Form thingy for echidnas?

Kinda-sorta depending on at which point in the comic's history we're talking about. Under Ian's pen, Enerjak was this sort of demonic entity which manifested in/possessed echidnas across history; Knuckles in particular at one point. Ian intended to detail more about that, but never got around to it before the reboot.

Nitro is more likely referring to Knuckles' solo antagonist Dimitri, the first character shown as Enerjak in the comic and the one best known for the identity. Dimitri is shown without the Enerjak garb more and more as time went on, but his most iconic stories were when he had the armor on. My personal favorite Enerjak is Dark Enerjak from the Silver arc in Sonic Universe though, which is alternate universe version where Knuckles went power mad and took over Mobius.

latest?cb=20120822151031

Man do I love that design.

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Just because I feel like this needs addressing....

 

3 hours ago, NiTROACTiVE said:

 

Not many people seem to care about those characters anymore, especially when it came to this poll posted by TSSZ over five years ago. So it's pretty sad when characters with potential become forgotten over time.

 

Your stance on the results of that poll are taken waaaaaaaay out of context. To say nothing of sample size, and other issues, it specifically asks if people would choose to abandon the comics wholesale in the wake of a potential roster slim-down. There is nothing in there that can be extrapolated about people not caring about the characters being removed. There is no data point available in that poll to measure how much people want those characters to stay - just a binary measure over whether on not one would be willing to abandon ship entirely based on their absence. Thats a lot to ask for what amounts to a community of background characters. Just because someone was willing to stick around, doesn't mean their happy to see some of those characters go. Geoffrey St. John isn't going to be the straw that breaks any camels back.

 

Aside from that, my stance on the topic mirrors those above me. Too mmuch legal drama surrounding the pre-boot cast to even think about them coming back. There were a few I would have liked to continue to see, but aw well. Thems the breaks.

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Elias, Scourge, Finitevus, Shard, Dimitri, Lien-Da, Feist.

Those are the characters I'll miss the most. They will still live in fans minds, heck there is this Archie Online that will probably keep them going.

But in something official? Put it next to Avatar Aang, Gravity Falls, El Tigre, Secret Saturday, any good movie that never spawn a sequel or whatever you hold close yo your heart and it passed away.

Something just end and we have to deal with it.

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"Is There Any Hope For The Archie Sonic Pre-Reboot Cast?"

IMO, No, not until the horrid legal issues surrounding them are settled. And the best case scenario I can imagine for them is if their copyright holders (mainly Ken) were to give up their copyright for really cheap (Like less than $1000 USD for everything ken has,)so that they can sit in waiting until somebody decides to use them for... something? Ian using them in the IDW series is about the only thing ATM I could realistically see them in, and that's with a guarantee of no more legal bullshit. I don't think Sega would even bother starting the process of acquiring the rights anyway, unless something changes in the future. The missing few many are probably better off on Deviant Art ATM anyway. That and for every 1 Geoffrey/Fiona/Shard there are literally dozens of truly useless characters... 

http://archiesonic.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Characters_introduced_by_Ken_Penders 

Only 242? I could have sworn there were more Echidnas then that...

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As has been said repeatedly, it's not about not remembering the characters, or not liking them, or not seeing their potential.  The principal and overarching obstacle to any of these characters returning to canon is the legal issue of their ownership, and that issue is effectively insurmountable.  So long as the rights holders either care about their characters or won't surrender them for anything more than a pittance, those characters are never going to be relinquished.

Bear in mind, also, that this is the SEGA which can't even remaster one of their most popular and memorable games because they can't sort out the legal rights for the music.  What chance do secondary comics characters have?

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If they didn’t manage to survive and appear in the post-reboot Archie, there is practically zero chance of them making it back in any other appearance.

Nothing short of straight up liscencing or purchasing the full rights of these characters will change that, and neither one are likely at this point. They’d have a better chance surviving in spirit through a new character that would be under Sega’s ownership.

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Nope they are gone for good.  and that's fine. If like idw to build a new world and cast.

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I would love for Antoine and Bunnie to come back but it's impossible at this point. And any character that was created by Ken Penders is definitely off limit (because they're being used in his TLSC series or something).

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To not add further to the negativity this topic is generating, let me instead offer an exercise for you to try. Look at the current revenue of the IDW comics, compare that to the production, now compare that to pre-reboot. Next, look at the sales comparison pre-reboot and post reboot. That last number is the absolute most returning readers you could get for bringing back the pre-reboot characters. Now, take that number and calculate the revenue that it would add. To make use of this number you'll now need to contact all of the creators and rights owners of those characters and ask them what they would charge to have their characters used (licenced out/royalties) or out right bought out. You should probably go with the second number though since Penders, who owns most of the characters, has extreme stipulation for using his characters which would effectively give him total control of the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise which SEGA of Japan would obviously never agree to making a buy out the only option. Now with those numbers you can compare them to added revenue for acquiring all of those characters and can finally calculate how long it would take not only to make the money back, but to also justify the investment. That last part is the single determining answer to your question since at the end of the day SEGA and IDW are companies and Sonic is the product. If the potential revenue is high enough then there is some hope for the pre-reboot characters. If not, then you'll have to hold out hope that those prices come down before either the characters no longer have any drawing power or the Sonic Franchise itself goes under.

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37 minutes ago, BlossomHaze said:

I would love for Antoine and Bunnie to come back but it's impossible at this point.

Antoine and Bunnie are owned by SEGA, and they did say "the door was not closed" for the Freedom Fighters. But we'll have to see.

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I don't want to sound like a jerk but outside of Elias, Mina and Fiona I really don't care if any of the Pre-Reboot cast ever show up again because honestly very few of them were particularly interesting. 

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I heard somewhere that the Freedom Fighters' original backstories were written by Penders. Hence why they changed in the post 252 era. Who created them originally? 

 

If they appear again, I suspect they will change again. 

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