Jump to content
Awoo.

Even Yuji Naka didnt want a cutesy funny Sonic


Marco9966

Recommended Posts

Just now, Diogenes said:

When are the Sonic Labyrinth fanboys going to get what they deserve? I propose a 57th timeline so we can finally get more games about Eggman stealing Sonic's shoes.

No you don't get to undermine my claims. You know well that the Adventure era has a huge portion of the fanbase, and you try to bring up Labyrinth to undermine our right to get a proper 3D game with good vibes!

Why would you find a 3rd timeline absurd if you are fine with a second timeline with Classic Sonic?

That's Classic bias for me.

  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Nice Smile 1
  • Fist Bump 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Yes, I liked Mania, but I would love a new SA style game.

Classic fanboys got what they want.

Adventure era fanboys deserve something too, because they're also a huge part of the fandom.

That's why I'd like a 3rd timeline with DC era vibes and stories.

Or just make a new Sonic game in such a gameplay style instead of muddling up the absolutely screwed lore even further...

I mean, Lost World tried to do that, while also putting it's own spin on the style.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the Adventure games, we didn't want Sonic to be cute *puts Chao Gardens AKA the cutest thing in the franchise, Hello Kitty levels of cuteness*

 

Besides, everything is fine, with the right balance. I agree that Sonic shouldn't be too cute, but I disagree with removing any cute elements from the franchise (or esle you should remove Tails as well).

The overall mood of the series should be cool, funky, hip etc, just like it was in the classic games, but I don't mind cute stuff like the chao garden in the series, I actually think they add variety and appeal to more people... as long as those cute aspects don't overshadow the main cool attitude of the series.

I'm saying cuteness, but that's not the only element that may become a problem if overused: the series has been overly edgy and overly cheesy with too many bad jokes, basically everything that takes the series too much apart from what it originally was may become a problem if done excessively.

  • Thumbs Up 2
  • Nice Smile 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Polkadi said:

Or just make a new Sonic game in such a gameplay style instead of muddling up the absolutely screwed lore even further...

I mean, Lost World tried to do that, while also putting it's own spin on the style.

I wish it'd be like that, but it seems SEGA can only do it in this way.

I'd have loved Sonic Mania being canon to SA1, but SEGA had to mess it up.

I don't care anymore if it's one timeline or more, if adding another timeline is the only way to get proper stories, so be it.

1 minute ago, Tracker_TD said:

You got one.

Image may contain: one or more people

It just sucked.  

Actual answer - technically, the fans aren't owed anything. It's not a right in the slightest, and it's sure as hell not enough to suit its own timeline. The franchise is a mess of 'pillars' enough, we don't need another one that's nigh identical to Modern anyway. 

Mania happened because the Classic fans actually worked for it.

No we got nothing!

Just the inclusion of Classic Sonic invalidates this! (also the bad writing)

2 minutes ago, Iko said:

With the Adventure games, we didn't want Sonic to be cute *puts Chao Gardens AKA the cutest thing in the franchise, Hello Kitty levels of cuteness*

 

Besides, everything is fine, with the right balance. I agree that Sonic shouldn't be too cute, but I disagree with removing any cute elements from the franchise (or esle you should remove Tails as well).

The overall mood of the series should be cool, funky, hip etc, just like it was in the classic games, but I don't mind cute stuff like the chao garden in the series, I actually think they add variety and appeal to more people... as long as those cute aspects don't overshadow the main cool attitude of the series.

I'm saying cuteness, but that's not the only element that may become a problem if overused: the series has been overly edgy and overly cheesy with too many bad jokes, basically everything that takes the series too much apart from what it originally was may become a problem if done excessively.

I agree of course, keep Sonic edgy, and keep Tails and Amy cute.

Even have Chao! I love the Chao, but don't turn Sonic into a Chao who doesnt say anything like Generations and Forces!

  • Nice Smile 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

I wish it'd be like that, but it seems SEGA can only do it in this way.

I'd have loved Sonic Mania being canon to SA1, but SEGA had to mess it up.

I don't care anymore if it's one timeline or more, if adding another timeline is the only way to get proper stories, so be it.

No we got nothing!

Just the inclusion of Classic Sonic invalidates this! (also the bad writing)

Alright but that doesn't address my actual answer. (That and Adventure 2 wasn't exactly a literary great, either)

Mania happened because instead of complaining that a new Classic game was "their right" or "they were owed it", the likes of Christian Whitehead, Brad Flick, Simon Thomley, Hunter Bridges, etc etc, actually made stuff. And pitched stuff. And after many years, got stuff made. 

  • Thumbs Up 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

Alright but that doesn't address my actual answer. (That and Adventure 2 wasn't exactly a literary great, either)

I want you to play Adventure 2, then play Forces, and then compare between the 2.

Forces is full of plotholes! Adventure 2 had an elaborate story (and no cringy jokes)

Quote

Mania happened because instead of complaining that a new Classic game was "their right" or "they were owed it", the likes of Christian Whitehead, Brad Flick, Simon Thomley, Hunter Bridges, etc etc, actually made stuff. And pitched stuff. And after many years, got stuff made. 

That's why I think it'd be cool to give a chance to some 3D fan who work hard to make good Sonic engines. ( there are many on youtube who do full 3D gameplay, and good 2D-like physics with spindash and everything).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

I want you to play Adventure 2, then play Forces, and then compare between the 2.

Forces is full of plotholes! Adventure 2 had an elaborate story.

That's why I think it'd be cool to give a chance to some 3D fan who work hard to make good Sonic engines. ( there are many on youtube who do full 3D gameplay, and good 2D-like physics with spindash and everything).

Adventure 2 had an elaborate story, but that doesn't mean it was good. I'd actually say Forces, while also naff, was more elaborate if anything.

Giving work to a 3D fan would make more sense if there were any actually proven game designers. Having a engine is only a tiny part of the battle.

Allow me to drag up an old post:

DPpqgOeWAAA6GMT.jpg:large

  • Thumbs Up 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Tracker_TD said:

Adventure 2 had an elaborate story, but that doesn't mean it was good. I'd actually say Forces, while also naff, was more elaborate if anything.

No it was not elaborate, one scene shows us Infinite as a mercenary who gets PTSD from Shadow and decides to be Infinite,

then in a scene they say Infinite was born into Eggman's capsule and felt sorry for him being born to be this way.

Then the comics just shows us that he was always a jerk.

Pick one!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

No you don't get to undermine my claims. You know well that the Adventure era has a huge portion of the fanbase, and you try to bring up Labyrinth to undermine our right to get a proper 3D game with good vibes!

You don't actually have a "right" to the games you want just because you and some other people want them.

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

Why would you find a 3rd timeline absurd if you are fine with a second timeline with Classic Sonic?

That's Classic bias for me.

I've only come to tolerate the existence of two timelines because the first one isn't likely to go away and the second is actually good. Trying to please everyone by subdividing the series is a fool's errand.

  • Thumbs Up 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

No it was not elaborate, one scene shows us Infinite as a mercenary who gets PTSD from Shadow and decides to be Infinite,

then in a scene they say Infinite was born into Eggman's capsule and felt sorry for him being born to be this way.

Then the comics just shows us that he was always a jerk.

Pick one!

I more meant in that it tries to do a million things. It sucked, yes, but it was more elaborate than the already daft SA2 plot.

There's also the other half of my post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

You don't actually have a "right" to the games you want just because you and some other people want them.

I've only come to tolerate the existence of two timelines because the first one isn't likely to go away and the second is actually good. Trying to please everyone by subdividing the series is a fool's errand.

Perhaps my wording is poor, it's not "right" per se, but don't undermine our "passion" by bringing up Sonic Labyrinth and have a 57th timeline or whatever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

No it was not elaborate, one scene shows us Infinite as a mercenary who gets PTSD from Shadow and decides to be Infinite,

then in a scene they say Infinite was born into Eggman's capsule and felt sorry for him being born to be this way.

Then the comics just shows us that he was always a jerk.

Pick one!

To be fair, I believe that's a product of three different products trying to do things with the same new major character and the collective details not being nailed down and/or streamlined among each in the final product.

 

Compared that to Sonic Adventure 2, which is a single product that told one story by giving the two sides a chance at perspective before uniting them at the end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Tracker_TD said:

I more meant in that it tries to do a million things. It sucked, yes, but it was more elaborate than the already daft SA2 plot.

There's also the other half of my post.

Yes I understand the issue with Sonic World.

What saddens me is that SEGA was able to do proper controllable gameplay with SA1 to ShtH.

But now can only do scripted spin dashes like Lost World.

Even the classic Sonic parts of Gen and Forces are scripted.

How did they forget to do a proper gameplay?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Marco9966 said:

 

But now can only do scripted spin dashes like Lost World.

 

But it wasn't scripted...?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, DabigRG said:

But it wasn't scripted...?

Not scripted but incredibly hard to control compared to SA1 or 2, it has unstable speed and turns very stiff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Perhaps my wording is poor, it's not "right" per se, but don't undermine our "passion" by bringing up Sonic Labyrinth and have a 57th timeline or whatever.

Your "passion" doesn't make a dreamcast/adventure dimension any more justified. More division is only going to hurt the series more.

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

How did they forget to do a proper gameplay?

Well it all started with Sonic Adventure, where, rather than figure out how to make loops and such work properly in 3D, they just automated the shit out of them, and just got lazier and lazier from there.

  • Thumbs Up 2
  • Nice Smile 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

they just automated the shit out of them, and just got lazier and lazier from there.

This I agree with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't really think there was ever any risk of Sonic losing edge as he got more popular. I always looked at his sprites and thought he looked kind of pissed off all the time, and when he transitioned to 3-D models they made his furrowed brow much more noticeable which kept that impression.

Sonic's never been cute to me, just cool. Even today when I do create a character in games I tend to give them an angry look because Sonic convinced me that slanted eyebrows looked good on characters in action games.

Just don't draw attention to it.

69aace04cabd6dc5ff68a34aac99dcba.jpg

  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Nice Smile 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

I beg to differ with Naka, given how it was that very particular direction that they took the franchise, trying to turn it into a hybrid between DBZ and Final Fantasy to appeal to a juvenile audience that desire something more "mature", that hurt the image of the franchise... And not to mention how it was around that era that people started creating the typical self-insert, wish-fulfillment OC's that flooded DA.

After the first Adventure was completed the crazy train was mostly piloted by Iizuka.

 

1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

Take in mind the time Peter Moore, former SEGA CEO, conducted a study that found SEGA's brand presence was weakening against its competition (ironically during the DC era you trumpet so much):

"I said, 'We need to be incredibly aware of the challenges we face as a brand at Sega,' you know, and so I play the video. Yuji Naka, Naka-san, maker of Sonic, is in the room. Now, he and I have a love/hate relationship on a good day. And we show him this, and it's subtitled in Japanese, and when it comes to that piece he just [slams his hand on the table], 'This is ridiculous. You have made them say this. Sega is the great brand, nobody would ever say this, you have falsified!' He just gets in my face. So I said to the translator, 'Tell him to fuck off.' And the poor guy looks at me and says, 'There's no expression in Japanese.' I said, 'I know there is.' And that was it. That was the last time I ever set foot in there," Moore explains.

I'm not suggesting Naka's arrogance here invalidates his thoughts on Sonic, but likewise Ohshima doing his job and proposing designs doesn't invalidate his either.

Not to suggest that this doesn't sound pretty on point for Sega of Japan and Naka (since Naka leaving Sega seems to have come about when he realized that he was part of the brain trust he had loathed so much the decade prior), but we also have to consider the source here as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Marco9966 said:

The problem is that they made Modern Sonic a cringey Ryan Reynolds wannabe (Ryan Reynolds is great at sarcasm, but Modern Sonic tries too hard!)

Modern Sonic wasn't like that in adventure era! His jokes helped him in his dominance, not make him look like a jerk!

Why is Sonic having a personality a bad thing? I prefer Post-Colors Sonic because it feels like he has an attitude. He feels like a snarker. Instead of being told that's what he's like it feels like he's actually like that.

I'll take that over "Real Super Power of Teamwork" thank you. 

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

You got one.

Image may contain: one or more people

It just sucked.  

Actual answer - technically, the fans aren't owed anything. It's not a right in the slightest, and it's sure as hell not enough to suit its own timeline. The franchise is a mess of 'pillars' enough, we don't need another one that's nigh identical to Modern anyway. 

Mania happened because the Classic fans actually worked for it.

I agree that we need to work for an Adventure branch to get it. And also, Skull Leader, Colors-era Sonic’s cheesy, tasteless jokes are every bit as alien as the dark elements of the Adventure era.

 

edit: Also, the Boom pillar is dead and stuff like IDW apparently doesn’t matter in this pillar scheme.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Why is Sonic having a personality a bad thing? I prefer Post-Colors Sonic because it feels like he has an attitude. He feels like a snarker. Instead of being told that's what he's like it feels like he's actually like that.

I'll take that over "Real Super Power of Teamwork" thank you. 

Honestly, I'd say the issue is more that it gets a little overdone at times and to some people, makes his character feel a little to simplistic and dare one say one-note.

Which technically isn't true(outside of maybe Forces, ironically), but there have been arguments.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Why is Sonic having a personality a bad thing? I prefer Post-Colors Sonic because it feels like he has an attitude. He feels like a snarker. Instead of being told that's what he's like it feels like he's actually like that.

I'll take that over "Real Super Power of Teamwork" thank you. 

So are we just ignoring forces or...? 

Also, considering the fact that heroes was literally the only game where the whole "Friends are my power" thing was used as the main point (emphasized in the theme song for him and the game itself) I don't think this works as a blanket statement for the entire series pre-colors, if anything he still had a lot of his 90's era coolness attitude in those games until they softened him up a bit in the games after shadow (with unleashed and black knight striking a nice balance I feel).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.