Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee for Switch - 16 November 2018

[Red Hot Jack]

I just watched the trailer. As someone who is not familiar with Pokemon games, and who didn't spend much time with Pokemon Go! Should I get this? Is it a normal Pokemon RPG with a story etc.? Because it seems like they are marketing it like Pokemon Go! But it's actually a traditional Pokemon, an RPG, I think... 

How does it work? Is it actually more similar to mainline Pokemon games or to Go! ?

[Pawn]

9 minutes ago, Jack the Maniac said:

I just watched the trailer. As someone who is not familiar with Pokemon games, and who didn't spend much time with Pokemon Go! Should I get this? Is it a normal Pokemon RPG with a story etc.? Because it seems like they are marketing it like Pokemon Go! But it's actually a traditional Pokemon, an RPG, I think... 

How does it work? Is it actually more similar to mainline Pokemon games or to Go! ?

It's more similar to the mainline. Go revolves around going outside, catching Pokemon, while its battles are very weak and rely purely on social engagement to create any sense of enjoyment. This is essentially an HD Red/Blue/Yellow with Go catching mechanics and a few simplifications here and there. Story has been confirmed, as the developers mentioned that Mewtwo will have a more prominent role in the plot. It will likely be similar to the originals for the most part, but it's hard to be 100% certain right now.

E3 will probably give us a lot more insight.

[Sonictrainer]

Here's GameXplain's analysis on the trailer

[Red Hot Jack]

1 hour ago, Pawn said:

It's more similar to the mainline. Go revolves around going outside, catching Pokemon, while its battles are very weak and rely purely on social engagement to create any sense of enjoyment. This is essentially an HD Red/Blue/Yellow with Go catching mechanics and a few simplifications here and there. Story has been confirmed, as the developers mentioned that Mewtwo will have a more prominent role in the plot. It will likely be similar to the originals for the most part, but it's hard to be 100% certain right now.

E3 will probably give us a lot more insight.

This sounds good, I was hoping for a more traditional one to try out. Thanks.

[Ashwalking Bat]

On 6/1/2018 at 3:35 PM, Strong Guy said:

Honestly, I really like this. Pokémon has always been my favorite franchise, and Pokémon blue was my very first game. I’ve stuck around for every single generation, and I’m totally okay with this.

As I’ve gotten older I’ve been playing games less and less, and I usually go back to replay the older Pokémon games, and lately I just haven’t been able to finish. Random encounters interrupting my flow, walking around in hopes I’ll run into what I want just feels like I’m wasting time, and keeping a Pokémon weak so I can use it to weaken wild ones I want to catch without fainting them or trying to keep something with a sleep inducing move is just more trouble than it’s worth. I’m okay with this. I like that wild Pokémon are visible in the overworld like Earthbounds enemies.

It's actually kinda funny you would bring that up. I too thought that when I first saw the footage for this. I was like "Oh cool. You can see Pokemon on the field, like the enemies in Earthbound". If anything I like that idea more myself. It'll help remove a lot of the flow issues of random battles and it'll allow for making catching Pokemon even more fun. Though it does seem your main way of leveling up will be mostly through battles, ala the Pokemon Colosseum style. Sans the Shadow Pokemon. This mix up in gamplay really should help draw in the casual crowd into the main series style gameplay.

On 6/1/2018 at 3:35 PM, Strong Guy said:

Also, since this game is meant to be more geared towards casual fans, maybe they can completely get rid of IVs, EVs, and natures or just completely rework them in a way that's not obnoxious. I haven't played Pokemon GO and I know they use CP in that, but i have no idea how it works. I've been EV training since Emerald and have done my fair share of competitive battling, messed around with showdown, and I still find myself coming up with new movesets for Pokemon I wanna use, but my god breeding for IVs, catching pokemon with a nature that completely destroys what its meant to do, it's just awful. They've made breeding for optimal IVs so much easier than it used to be, but it's still such a bother. Even on casual playthroughs, if I catch a modest Machop I simply cannot use it. I don't care that in a normal in game playthough it wouldn't really matter. I cannot allow myself to use a Pokemon I know is gimped. My brain won't allow it. I remember back when natures were introduced and I was young I wanted all my Pokemon to be brave natured just like me. But now, oof I shudder at the thought. 

I'll agree the IV, EV system is a bit convoluted and I only have very basic knowledge on that stuff myself. I don't see it as a major problem considering that getting decent IVs can make playing the game's story mode kinda fun. I never was the competitive type, so the co-op vs. battles were never my thing. Though I really couldn't tell you what CP does either, since I never picked up Go ever.

Though with these new games, I would hope they wouldn't use IVs and EVs, since casuals wouldn't be able to handle the workload of study into what those things can do for them.

[Sean]

I sincerely don't like the idea of removing EVs/IVs especially since their existence doesn't bother the casual player in the slightest. Why remove them just to please certain fans who don't like the notion of a certain facet of the game not appealing specifically to them?

[Blue Blood]

30 minutes ago, Sean said:

I sincerely don't like the idea of removing EVs/IVs especially since their existence doesn't bother the casual player in the slightest. Why remove them just to please certain fans who don't like the notion of a certain facet of the game not appealing specifically to them?

I agree. I've been aware of the systems since the RSE days and yet don't give damn about them because they don't impact the main game whatsoever. In theory, I think the problem with IVs and EVs is that they too come down to nothing more than luck and grinding. Getting a perfect IV spread isn't anything related to skill and you can have a full party with 31 in each stat. It's just a chore to get a Pokémon with stats that you're happy with. EVs are a bit better because there's flexibility in how you go about distributing them. But I'd still argue that it's a pain to EV train because there's again no skill involved in actually attaining the EVs; it's instead just very specific grinding to set them out how you like. In this regard, I've got absolutely no qualms with people cheating to get perfectly legitimate Pokémon. But I'm not a competitive player, so maybe people have an issue with this or enjoy EV/IV training in some way that goes over my head.

EVs and IVs are totally hidden. Getting rid of them solves no problems but alienating those who do use them. I don't get it. They wouldn't have any negative impact on the Let's Go games. But now competitive players won't be able to get that kind of enjoyment out of the games. 

[Your Vest Friend]

They don't affect the main game, but the online aspect is more affected by it. Unless you have quite a lot of time to invest in doing said grinding and have the right amount of luck, you're probably not going to stand a chance in online play. Whether GF thinks that is more important than keep the individualism thing remains to be seen. 

[Blue Blood]

1 hour ago, VEDJ-F said:

They don't affect the main game, but the online aspect is more affected by it. Unless you have quite a lot of time to invest in doing said grinding and have the right amount of luck, you're probably not going to stand a chance in online play. Whether GF thinks that is more important than keep the individualism thing remains to be seen. 

It's already been confirmed that many of the online features (Wonder Trade, GTS, Battle Spot etc) won't be present in these games. On the one hand, you could argue that that removes the need for IV and EV specialisms. On the other, it's still needlessly limiting. Without so much online functionalities, it's going to be less interesting to more vested Pokémon players. Why can't Game Freak do something that will please everyone? We're not talking drastically different styles of games here like we so often have with the Classic Sonic vs Modern Sonic argument - Pokémon Let's Go could quite easily do both.

[NegaMix]

The more I hear about this game, the more it starts to basically sound like "Pokémon Go: Story Mode Edition".

The small amount of Pokémon available, the lack of many online features, the connectivity with Pokémon Go. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they also removed EVs/IVs too, in an attempt to streamline this game.

[Diogenes]

Having a system that allows some kind of variation in stats between pokemon of the same species is reasonable, but IVs and EVs just seem like such a shit system. They're obscure and poorly explained, and even once you understand them there's hardly any interesting decisions to make or fun gameplay involved compared to how much grinding it takes to get and train a 'mon up to a competitive level. A better system could be more approachable for casual players who are looking to go a bit deeper and more fun/less tedious for experienced players.

[Ashwalking Bat]

1 hour ago, Blue Blood said:

It's already been confirmed that many of the online features (Wonder Trade, GTS, Battle Spot etc) won't be present in these games. On the one hand, you could argue that that removes the need for IV and EV specialisms. On the other, it's still needlessly limiting. Without so much online functionalities, it's going to be less interesting to more vested Pokémon players. Why can't Game Freak do something that will please everyone? We're not talking drastically different styles of games here like we so often have with the Classic Sonic vs Modern Sonic argument - Pokémon Let's Go could quite easily do both.

The Pokemon Let's Go games are namely for the Casual crowd as a means to suck them into the core games slowly and in a way that is digestible. I mean it's open to that fact from the start that this is to draw in the Pokemon Go casual crowd.

As for IVs/EVs. I will say fair enough to the idea that they don't need to be removed. Though, I highly dought that casuals would even bother anyway with that. However, I don't foresee a large amount hardcore fans really picking up the Pokemon Let's Go games. But for those who do, that could help them enjoy something till a game geared more toward the Hardcore fans is made or at least announced in the future.

[Kuzu]

I do agree that they probably should change up how EV's and IV's are implemented, but as stated, it's something that doesn't affect casual players. IV's and EV's are only relevant if you're a competitive battler. So their inclusion affects one group (competitors) but not another (casuals), so why do the latter care? 

[Muscles Maximum]

11 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

In theory, I think the problem with IVs and EVs is that they too come down to nothing more than luck and grinding. Getting a perfect IV spread isn't anything related to skill and you can have a full party with 31 in each stat. It's just a chore to get a Pokémon with stats that you're happy with. EVs are a bit better because there's flexibility in how you go about distributing them. But I'd still argue that it's a pain to EV train because there's again no skill involved in actually attaining the EVs; it's instead just very specific grinding to set them out how you like. In this regard, I've got absolutely no qualms with people cheating to get perfectly legitimate Pokémon. But I'm not a competitive player, so maybe people have an issue with this or enjoy EV/IV training in some way that goes over my head.

EVs and IVs are totally hidden. Getting rid of them solves no problems but alienating those who do use them. I don't get it. They wouldn't have any negative impact on the Let's Go games. But now competitive players won't be able to get that kind of enjoyment out of the games. 

That’s the thing. IVs and EVs are a garbage system. Sure it’s nice to be able to influence your stats in some way for competitive play. That’s why I want them to remove it and bring in something better. Or at the very least completely rework what they’ve already got.

I’m one of the seemingly few who infinitely prefers the stat exp system in place during the first two generations of games. For those who don’t know, every Pokémon’s stats have a total of around 60k stat exp, and whenever you KO a Pokémon whatever you KOed’s base stats get added to every one of your Pokémon’s stat exp. I don’t remember the exact number but just to simplify I’ll round down and say 60,000. So if you KO a Mew (who’s base stats are all 100) your Pokémon’s stat exp for every one of its stats will be 100. So you gotta KO 600 Mew to max out your Pokémon’s stats. What’s nice about this is that ANY Pokémon you battle will be beneficial to your Pokémon’s stats.

Whereas with EVs, you gotta commit to ONLY battling say Zubat to max out your speed. You ran into a geodude? Too bad brother, flee. If you’re an unlucky soul who finds a shiny and you wanna catch it, well you gotta either run away, catch it, and if you’re playing a recent gen, your Pokémon now has unwanted defense EVs. You gotta go through the trouble of harvesting EV reducing berries, find an ultra rare white punching bag, or just get a new Pokémon to train to start over. If a trainer battles you, welp, too bad loser if he doesn’t have Pokémon that give you speed EVs you gotta reset. Shame. Also, knowing what EVs a Pokémon give is unintuitive in and of itself. For most, the EVs they give is determined by the Pokemon’s highest stat. But for others, it makes no damn sense. For the ones that give multiple EVs for different stats, it’s a pain in the ass. It’s nonsense. EVs are the worst shit ever.

Evs are also limiting because you gotta specifically train a Pokémon with the stats you want it to excel at in mind. A single stat can have a maximum of 252 EVs (actually it’s like 255) and only have 510 EVs total (so if you wanna max out a stat 3 EVs go to waste). A Pokémon like say, Infernape, with even Attack and Special Attack can either go all in on physical Attack, all in on Special Attack, or go mixed and split those 252 EVs into both, which in turn will make the Infernape weaker. With stat exp all stats end up maxed. So that same Infernape could be a cool mixed attacker without sacrificing any of its power in any way. Pokémon would be so much less frail because their defensive stats would be maxed out. I like that. 

What I love about stat exp is that if you really wanted you can train up your in game team by just playing through the game like you’re supposed to. It’s really cool. Bring em into Pokémon stadium and have a good time beating the gym leader castle or your friends. In the newer games EV training is a strictly post game uh “process.” Because it’s so unconventional. Who would’ve thought to train your Pokémon to be as good as can be, you gotta massacre strictly zubat’s and ghastly’s. So I’d love for stat exp to be brought back. Though that 60k total is WAY too high. I’d heavily reduce that number. Maybe down to like 6k? Or something. And of course you can give your Pokémon a macho brace to cut those numbers in half. Vitamins to lower it further. Conveniece would still be there. 

But then the problem of IVs arises. IVs are stupid as hell too. I completely understand the concept of every Pokémon you catch growing up differently. But there’s nothing “unique” about my Blastoise with ZERO IVs in its defensive stats. It’s worthless. Even for in game I wouldn’t use that shit.

I’d propose a completely knew system where Pokémon have varied stats at the beginning, but as they grow they slowly even out and Pokémon of the same species end up at the same place at level 100. There are a few strategies that would have to be fundamentally changed, or just wouldn’t work with a system like this, but it’s such a small fraction of the people play, that it doesn’t even matter. People can get over their trick room sweepers not working as well as they used to. Plus I’m sure game freak could come up with some ways to have those moves work differently, or just come up with completely new strategies to begin with.

Natures could be kept as a necessary evil to give your Pokémon that extra oomph they might need. I don’t like natures because I honestly hate how for competitive teams all your Pokémon gotta be jolly, adamant, or timid. If you’re a loser like me and like to pretend your Pokémon exist in some form, all your physical attackers having the same basic personality is kinda lame. But beyond that, playing a game casually and catching an adamant Abra which literally lowers its best stat and raises its worst by 10%, I can’t bring myself to use it. I just can’t. I know it’s a very personal thing, but I know others who feel similarly. Just knowing this Pokémon I got lucky enough to catch without having it teleport away is completely gimped for no reason other than for it to be “unique” is ridiculous. 

It’d be neat if stat exp was revived in some form since this game is such a strict gen 1 remake. Plus stat exp is inherently more casual friendly since battling all Pokémon is beneficial to you.

So I can get the idea of liking a system like EVs, but it’s executed terribly. And I can never defend IVs, I’m sorry. I literally can’t understand why anyone would like a mechanic that makes it possible to catch a Pokémon that’s completely outclassed by others of the same species. I just can’t.

[Diogenes]

42 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I do agree that they probably should change up how EV's and IV's are implemented, but as stated, it's something that doesn't affect casual players. IV's and EV's are only relevant if you're a competitive battler. So their inclusion affects one group (competitors) but not another (casuals), so why do the latter care? 

You don't necessarily have to be aiming for high-level competitive play to care about your pokemon's stats. Even if you're just casually battling your friends, it kinda sucks that one player might be at a disadvantage because of some bad RNG 10 hours of gameplay ago or because of an obscure mechanic that they didn't even know about was affecting their 'mon's stats. Hell even just playing through the story it's kind of a bummer to think a pokemon you caught and raised from a low level might always be holding your team back due to low IVs. Doesn't really play well into the whole "anyone can succeed with friendship and hard work" kinda vibe.

[Sonictrainer]

Quote

Serebii.net Information:

• It has been announced that the upcoming Nintendo Switch titles, Pokémon Let's Go Pikachu & Pokémon Let's Go Eevee are to be playable on the E3 show floor in Los Angeles next week, allowing for attendees to give the new systems a shot. At present it's not known if the playable build will be playable in any other events but we'll post when we know more
• As part of continued statements to press, The Pokémon Company has reconfirmed that motion control is compulsory in the game. In docked or tabletop mode, capture is done by flicking the JoyCons and in handheld you move the Switch around to aim and press A button to throw the ball. At present there is no word of any non-motion control to capture.

Some pics from Famitsu, showing some new Pikachu and Eevee Artwork

 

Also some fanart from mx-tacitgrey on what would happen if Pikachu and Eevee could evolve and still ride on our backs.

[Pawn]

5 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

Also some fanart from mx-tacitgrey on what would happen if Pikachu and Eevee could evolve and still ride on our backs.

[Pics]

These just make me want them to evolve more. Embrace the chaos.

[Kuzu]

On 6/3/2018 at 3:22 PM, Diogenes said:

You don't necessarily have to be aiming for high-level competitive play to care about your pokemon's stats. Even if you're just casually battling your friends, it kinda sucks that one player might be at a disadvantage because of some bad RNG 10 hours of gameplay ago or because of an obscure mechanic that they didn't even know about was affecting their 'mon's stats. Hell even just playing through the story it's kind of a bummer to think a pokemon you caught and raised from a low level might always be holding your team back due to low IVs. Doesn't really play well into the whole "anyone can succeed with friendship and hard work" kinda vibe.

Kind of a late reply but.

If the thought is that every Pokemon should be on an even playing field, why even have a stat influencing mechanic at all then? I agree that the EV and IV system is very flawed, but I don't think it needs to be removed either. Otherwise, there'd be no real point in playing against your friends; the entire point of them is to offer differentiation among mons of the same species and raise them the way you want them to. Removing that basically means everybody would be playing similar builds of the same mon, and that would ruin a lot of the creativity of these games tbh. 

And that kind of ignores the fact that checking and influencing EV's and IV's have become way easier nowadays. Before, you couldn't even check them and had to calculate them irl. Now, there's an in-game mechanic that lets you check and pass them down at your leisure. I don't really know how much more they can make things easier without just outright removing them entirely. 

[Diogenes]

37 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

the entire point of them is to offer differentiation among mons of the same species and raise them the way you want them to.

Then they should come up with systems that allow you to do that in a way that's fun and understandable rather than obscure and tedious.

IVs aren't interesting. There's no interesting choices to make; you always want the highest IVs you can get, and the only thing that's stopping you from having a team of perfect-IV pokemon is that it requires rolling the dice millions of times. And if you have your Pikachu fight your friend's Pikachu, one of you may just be screwed, not because of any choice either of you made, but just because the RNG favored one player over another when they were caught.

EVs are better, in that they actually let the player customize their pokemon's stats to an extent, but it's still a sloppy system that's difficult-to-impossible to control while playing the game normally, and deliberately trying to manage your pokmeon's EVs means dealing with a bunch of weird gimmicks and poorly explained items and mechanics, rather than being presented in a straightforward way and being a sensible extension of the game's core mechanics.

Being able to customize your pokemon is a good thing. It's why the pokemon fanbase has a dedicated competitive side; a lot of strategy can go into picking your team, their moves, the items they hold, their EV distribution, etc. But having such complicated, obscured, and time-wasting mechanics greatly raises the barrier to entry for no good reason. It shouldn't require memorizing a wiki and a month of grinding to make a viable team.

[ZinogreVolt]

Thanks, but no thanks. Nothing about this game screams that it's a full-price game in a multi-billion dollar franchise. I get that it's sort of a stop-gap for newbies to get into Pokémon, but it kinda comes off as filler-y fluff that they're charging 60 whole bucks (and 50 for that accessory) for. 

I also feel like shoehorning in Pokemon Go mechanics they way they are is to misunderstand what made Go such a huge success in the first place. It wasn't popular because of the mechanics, it was popular because it you could catch Pokémon straight from your phone for FREE, and it was a big social experience. If people wanted Pokémon Go, they'd just play Pokémon Go.

Plus, I feel like if people really wanted to get into Pokémon through Go, they'd have done it already with the release of Sun and Moon. Go was at its peak then and Sun and Moon had a monstrous marketing campaign. Adding onto that, getting into Sun and Moon was a FAR cheaper affair than getting into Let's Go (79.99 2DS console + 39.99 game vs. 299.99 console + 59.99 game and optional 49.99 accessory). 

Not even mentioning my qualms with the game's art direction, the very unnecessary lack of wild battles, going back to a grid based map, the forced motion control both in docked and handheld play, and the incredibly jarring decision to only have Kanto Pokémon and their Alolan varients (which probably also means the Sevii Islands from FRLG are cut), the game just doesn't sound appealing in the least.

As a longtime Pokémon fan who's been onboard with the series since Crystal, this series continues to only disappoint as of late. The 2019 game had better be worth it.

 

[Salamander]

I think those criticisms are more or less spot-on.  The simple fact is that Pokemon Go has already boosted the main franchise's sales, from the huge success of Sun/Moon and even to sudden bumps in sales of the Generation VI games.  Creating a watered-down tie-in now - two years later - is missing the point.  It'll probably still pull in the sales, because it's Pokemon on the Switch, but if GameFreak are expecting astronomical success...  Well, I just don't know.  The game already misses the point of Eevee innately, and it's hard to imagine who that's going to impress.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds that the art style is just a bit off; the main characters in particular just have something unappealing about them in terms of the main proportions and textures.  They're just halfway between cartoon-realism and sprite-like toy builds, and there's a grimy quality to the shading that's unappetising.  Meanwhile, are Pokemon Go fans really supposed to be that hyped for what is also, to them, a pretty small selection of Pokemon?  And doesn't this have obvious knock-on effects regarding Pokemon availability for the trainers; are we really back to the days of Bruno the Fighting-type Elite Four member having two Onixes, for instance?  And while I am personally okay with non-random battles, I really think they needed to be implemented in fresh environments tailored to that design, rather than just... dropping them into old areas to wander across cycle lanes and narrow patches of grass indiscriminately.

The rumours that this would be more like Yellow 2 made for a much more interesting premise for a reboot.  This is a surprisingly backwards-looking step.  Furthermore, after the minimally-different and possibly actually worse "enhanced editions" of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, one gets the impression that the franchise is getting complacent about its filler titles.  Maybe they'll come back and impress me again before the release date, but a gimmicky remake that actually looks worse than the previous remake is making for what looks to be the first mainline title in the series I'll be skipping - and that's not a good trend for them to set...

[Diogenes]

11 hours ago, FFWF said:

And doesn't this have obvious knock-on effects regarding Pokemon availability for the trainers; are we really back to the days of Bruno the Fighting-type Elite Four member having two Onixes, for instance? 

They could swap the Onixes for a Primeape and a Poliwrath if they wanted. It's really Agatha and Lance that get screwed by the limited number of 'mons of their chosen type. But then, do the Elite Four really need to each use a single type exclusively anyway? Bruno had Onixes because they're big huge rock guys and he's a big tough guy, Agatha had a Golbat because it's creepy-spooky, Lance had a Gyarados and an Aerodactyl because they're dragon-like. There's still a thematic logic to their teams, and for what is basically the final boss of the game it wouldn't hurt to require more of a strategy than having one decent 'mon with a type advantage.

[Salamander]

That's a reasonable pair of arguments, and for the first one (they might change out the opponents' teams anyway), my reply essentially boils down to "I wouldn't put it past them not to bother," given that Bruno was still packing at least one Onix in every single Kanto revisit in the series so far.  Thematic teams I have no real problem with if they're willing to actually commit to it and make an effort to realise it through characterisation and general presentation, but that's not something the series has ever actually sold itself on; the emphasis has always been on type-based opponents within the gym-League structure.  I would also suggest that what thematic logic existed in the past was simply making a virtue of a necessity; they couldn't, at the time, provide these trainers with the teams their type focus suggested, so they had to scrabble around for anything that merely looked the part.  It would be an error to mistake that essential weakness for a sign of strength.  Could they also set up better themes and justifications for Pokemon use around these trainers in the remakes?  Absolutely; but again, who would put it past them not to bother?  The problem with GameFreak's commitment to nostalgia is that they too often let it hamstring them.

[Sonictrainer]

Some footage from E3 2018.

 

[Blue Blood]

I was starting to warm up to this game, thinking that perhaps I was being too hard on it. But watching that footage set me straight and reaffirmed that it's crap.