Jump to content
Awoo.

Should the Sonic Franchise get new, better developers?


Mountaindewandsprite
 Share

Recommended Posts

Nah, not really.

It's just that Sega needs to stop listening to the fans and make a good, well-tested game instead of catering to the needs of the many fanboy groups. I don't care if it's Lost World 2 or Sonic Adventure 3, as long as it plays good.

Also, maybe they should give Sonic to the main Sega branch. Those guys have made some cool stuff in the past few years, so, yeah.

  • Nice Smile 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering Sonic is a franchise about youth, speed, nature, and freedom being run by a bunch of fuddy-duddy businessmen who've fallen into a routine they themselves don't understand, I'd say yes.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, A person, that exists said:

Nah, not really.

It's just that Sega needs to stop listening to the fans and make a good, well-tested game instead of catering to the needs of the many fanboy groups. I don't care if it's Lost World 2 or Sonic Adventure 3, as long as it plays good.

Also, maybe they should give Sonic to the main Sega branch. Those guys have made some cool stuff in the past few years, so, yeah.

Yes but if Sega is closed off it could lead to another Sonic 06.

They have to listen to some criticism I mean come on Forces was mediocre at best so listening to feedback i think is a good thing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The guy who made this doesn't think it's popular, but all the comments in his video are praising.

I wish he gets in contact with SEGA like Taxman, imagine the opportunities with this, running fast and controlling speed when WE WANT, not boost slavery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, A person, that exists said:

It's just that Sega needs to stop listening to the fans and make a good, well-tested game instead of catering to the needs of the many fanboy groups.

This. I agree. The fans are indecisive. First, they say Sega needs to listen to the fans. Then when Sega does and it comes out crappy, they say Sega needs to do their own thing.

  • Nice Smile 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

This. I agree. The fans are indecisive. First, they say Sega needs to listen to the fans. Then when Sega does and it comes out crappy, they say Sega needs to do their own thing.

The thing is SEGA listens to different factions who want completely different things for Sonic, there are the Purists, the Adventurists, the Modernists, don't forget the Fanfic and OC makers.

SEGA tried to pander to all of them and we got Sonic Forces, and at the end no one was satisfied. (Classic cutey innocent Sonic and goth sadistic edgelord Infinite in the same game wtf!!)

  • Chuckle 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know, for as much as I complain about the state of the series nowadays, most of the problems I have really do just hinge on how they're handling the 3D games. It's the absolute biggest and most substantial thing they need to get right so there's no downplaying the fact that something needs to be done in order for things to improve, but part of me also worries that if too much changes then there's a chance the shift might even be for the worst still. Who really knows?

I'm sure getting new developers won't affect the other good things coming out from the series (like the comics and Sumo Digital's awesome racing games) but when I think of new developers, I'm imagining an actual group of people who are committed to being apart of Sonic Team and learning and growing with it to improve upon themselves and striving to be more creative with the elements the series has granted them so that they can mold it into something that feels new rather than something that's parroting the old and banking on soulless nostalgia. 

After Forces though, it doesn't really seem like that's how they work. They said it was from the team that brought us Colors and Generations but it wasn't. They work under the label of "Sonic Team" but the people who worked on it were certainly not the same people. Even that Hedgehog Engine 2.0 ended up being a disappointment. The number 2 implies "better" and it just... kinda wasn't. Not really. 

I usually don't like speaking on the technical side of things because I know the least about it more than anyone. I can at least say that the things they've shown us as far as the 3D games go feel too much like a mish-mash of what wants to be creative and what wants to be complacent. 

As someone on the outside looking in, I feel what they need is to just find a group of people who know what they're doing and let them actually be in charge of an idea that can grow and develop naturally. This thing where they keep switching people out, replacing people, throwing ideas around from person to person who all have their own idea of what they want Sonic to be, and saying things are made by the same people under the moncur of "Sonic Team" when they're actually not is probably not working out well for them at the moment. 

Also, somebody reign Iizuka in a bit. The man keeps saying weird shit.

  • Thumbs Up 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's one of those questions that is rhetorical. Now though, it is easy to say yes however it isn't as simple as it seems and really does depend on the game.

Sonic Mania was in the right hands with Christian Whitehead and his team who pretty much knew what to do due to past experiences with the series both officially and unofficially. The series at least in the 2D side hasn't been in better shape since the DS days and hasn't had good will since the Mega Drive era. If they get a completely original 2D game developed and get the same response as Mania then apart from any illogical Sega decision making that can happen, then they are good to carry on. Well providing that Sega doesn't screw up that is.

Sonic Forces was mainly done by new staff who haven't worked on a Sonic game before, also less staff compared to the past so there is some inexperience and lack of focus. I do think Sonic Team needs to have a change. While I don't know much about current Japanese gaming development, it isn't as simple and not many developers make 3D platformers never mind current Sonic Team. It's an argument that many people say Nintendo work on it due to their experience on 3D platformers however Nintendo is Nintendo and Sega is Sega. It won't happen. Other parts of Sega are too busy with Yakuza (their premium series) or Puyo Puyo (cheaper to make but have a fanbase) games. Even when Sega tried a Western developer, it was a disaster.

To be honest, it's hard to think of what good developer can make a good 3D Sonic game and can also deal with Sega.

If one of these 3D fan projects takes off, it could take YEARS before a game could be made from these people. It took Christian Whitehead over 10 years to get where we got Mania and since 2011 where he and later Simon Thomley were doing the ports officially because of the years of research. Unlike Taxman and Stealth, the people who do these test engines also don't have contacts with Sega and even then takes a while before they can be trusted with a project.

Short answer: Yes for the 3D side but could take time. No for the 2D side, its fine.

  • Thumbs Up 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly, I think that someone out there should step up and pitch something worth SEGA's time, so they can take the helm for the next 3D Sonic game or two and give Sonic Team a break from Sonic. Because it is obvious they are burnt out and need one. Keep in mind that they've taken a break from Sonic before, during the Saturn era. And when they came back, what did they give us? Sonic Adventure, one of the most ambitious games they ever made. So yes they should stop for now, and return in a few years when they have their creative juices and drive again.

  • Fist Bump 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could be talking right out of my arse here so if anyone wants to own me feel free to do so, but what I don't understand is why Sonic Team needs their own engine for their games. We're at a point where hardware and third party engines are powerful enough and have enough utility to create giant open worlds with billions of NPCs and dynamic night-day and weather cycles. Creating an engine from scratch just seems like a waste of time and money that makes game development harder. They've never even licensed the Hedgehog Engine out or, to my knowledge, even used it in other Sega games besides the Mario and Sonic entries on Wii U.

If fans can make seriously good Sonic engines with proper physics in Unity then Sonic Team could probably pull off something remarkable in UE4 or whatever. To my knowledge Sonic Team used (and might still use idk) Havok as a base for even the character physics and said that's why Classic Sonic wasn't 1:1 with the original games physics wise, so they already use third party engines for much of development. So what is the point in the Hedgehog Engine 2 besides some admittedly gorgeous lighting that third party engines can do? Again I could be talking utter shite, but I remember someone here saying it doesn't even work well with streaming large levels, so... that's kind of a big problem as well. If true.

  • Promotion 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wasn't Sonic Forces made by a a handful of new members of Sonic Team outside of the lead director? I remember reading that many of the level designers on it were newbies and that many of the old members who worked on games like Sonic Colors/Unleashed/Generations are gone and working on nintendo games now...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Space☆Yeow said:

The Sonic series has needed new designers and franchise managers for over a decade and then some. Nobody should expect anything from Sonic Team outside of continued incompetence and negligence handling their and Sega's most iconic and most valuable brand, especially after Forces. But ST seem to have permanent job security when it comes to Sonic at this point. As I see it, the only hope we have is for more Mania-styled projects to be greenlit and managed by SoA, in which other people can be brought in and work near-independently from ST's intents and attitudes towards game design.

On that note, I am unimpressed but not surprised at people once again somehow scapegoating the series' fans at fault for Sega/ST's own errors. History shows Sega/Sonic Team making eyebrow-raising game concepts on their own accords and being hamfistedly inept and taking in feedback from the fans, especially from fans who are practically airing their grievances in ways that couldn't be more comprehensive and egregious if they tried.

But those who seriously think "the unpleasable fans" are once again at fault for the series' problems are absolutely free to point out to me where on these or other message boards where Sonic fans en masse demanded for the latest 3D Sonic game to have old villains to brought back as illusions that have nothing to do with the overarching story, another "actually 2D" game that barely an entire hour's worth of 3D gameplay, roughly half of the game to be remade levels/recycled assets from past games, and Super Sonic as paid DLC; among other things. I'll be waiting.

Friendly reminder that Forces was in development for four years. For all intents and purposes, Forces was supposed to be Sonic Team's comeback game following Lost World.

The blame should also be pointed at the people who accept anything by SEGA as good even if it's utter crap!

Like the Sonic Forces defense squad who has only praise for Sonic Forces, even accepting Classic Sonic in this game! Or saying that the story is good!

Thankfully, many other people filled SEGA's opinion form and expressed their disagreement of the aimless inclusion of Classic Sonic, and hopefully we'll never see Classic Sonic in a modern game again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

If fans can make seriously good Sonic engines with proper physics in Unity then Sonic Team could probably pull off something remarkable in UE4 or whatever. To my knowledge Sonic Team used (and might still do use idk) Havok as a base for even the character physics and said that's why Classic Sonic wasn't 1:1 with the original games physics wise. So what is the point in the Hedgehog Engine 2 besides some admittedly gorgeous lighting? Again I could be talking utter shite, but I remember someone here saying it doesn't even work well with streaming large levels, so... that's kind of a big deal? I think?

There are hacks of Generations, such as No Automation and Fixing Generations Forever (the NVIDIA Shadowplay video by SSMB's own Tracker_TD below showcases both), that bring classic Sonic noticeably closer to how he plays in the original games. Forces too, albeit to a less visible attempt.

Sonic Team not nailing the physics has far less to do with the engine in question and far more to do with the designers' intentions. They're just not remotely interested in even getting the most fundamental components of classic gameplay right, let alone reproducing them near-accurately to the originals as Taxman, Stealth, and other people in the Sonic community have done.

32 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Wasn't Sonic Forces made by a a handful of new members of Sonic Team outside of the lead director? I remember reading that many of the level designers on it were newbies and that many of the old members who worked on games like Sonic Colors/Unleashed/Generations are gone and working on nintendo game now...

It's a mix of both. The standard game planners and level designers were new, but they were working under lead designers/planners and a director who have been working on Sonic games as far back as Secret Rings.

  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel as though the OP's question is loaded as it operates under the assumption that the issue is confirmably lack of passion and competancy on Sonic Team's end, which makes me skeptical of the OP's intent to ask a legitimate question. However, for the sake of discussion, I will assume good intent on the part of OP until proven otherwise.

Part of the reason I'm skeptical is that this wouldn't be the first time Sonic Team has effectively been replaced after controversy, and as we can tell that didn't satisfy everybody long term. Likewise, Sonic games' credits tend to feature a lot of different developers for different games, so one could argue that Sonic Team has been effectively replaced several times. How would this time be different?

And okay, you say it'll be different this time because the staff is going to be consistent this time around for the foreseeable future. Even so, I have several questions in mind, which I imagine a corporation would be asking itself if it were planning a complete replacement of one of its longest standing studios. Here's the list:

  1. How are we defining a "competent better developer"? One that makes more technically solid games? One that can handle short deadlines and all kinds of other bullshit? How about a list of specifics? Who do we have in mind that has the credentials to fit the bill, and are there already some people in Sonic Team that have the credentials and can be transferred over to the new company? And if a lot of people at Sonic Team fit the bill, is a replacement truly necessary? Is there anywhere else the root of our problems could be that warrants investigating first?
  2. How many developers are we looking for in the replacement company?
  3. Should we establish our own company (which entails a whole line of questions in its own right that would make this post too long and redundant) or recruit one that is already established? If we're recruiting, how much experience should the company have in output, in making 3D games, in making platformers, in making racers, etc.? What specific companies do we have in mind for recruits?
  4. How much control do we have over this company? Do we just hand them a license and let them go unsupervised? Require them to approve major or all concept to be put into the game? Dictate features that must be included? Set deadlines?
  5. What's the timeline for this kind of change? I mean, you didn't think this kind of change would be simple and quick, did you? How long will the transition take? If Sonic Team has been assigned another Sonic game and done a lot of work on it, is it allowed to finish it before being disconnected from Sega? If Sonic Team is not to finish it, is the game outright cancelled or will the new company take over making the game? Will the new company need a delay to finish the game started by Sonic Team, and if so, how long? If Sonic Team is working on something non-Sonic, will it be allowed to keep working on it and any successors? If not, will it be cancelled or given to the new company instead?
  6. What budget should this new company get for making games? Can the new company fund itself, have to fund itself, or is it totally dependent on Sega? Does SammyCorp need to contribute in any way?
  7. What are the short term consequences of this sort of change? Long term consequences?
  8. How will this kind of change be explained to the general public, some of whom may not share the belief that Sonic Team as it is is bad? How will the short term negatives, such as a large time void before the next Sonic, be presented to people and used in a way that won't cause an uproar of people complaining? Long term negatives? How are we to introduce the new company to the general public and the fandom?

Look, total replacement sounds like a simple and obvious solution from the perspective of somebody in a chair on the internet, but its anything but. There's a lot to consider, many places to go wrong, and nothing happens quickly or without problems. And really, what was the point of all that if the new company just turns out to be exactly like Sonic Team is now but with different names attached, which is possible and arguably likely knowing Sega?

Right now, the source of the problems is mostly to do with Sega's incompetent management. Remove Sega from the picture and even Pontaff's writing becomes good (no joke, they wrote one of the best Sonic Boom episodes of Season 2, which Sega wasn't involved in beyond giving the creators the Sonic license. Its an awesome blend of comedy and serious, continues a character arc from Fire and Ice in a way that makes sense, and even has a decent morally ambiguous villain. Its worth checking out as its definitely Pontaff's best Sonic work and likely represents what they really want to do with the franchise.). So I say it'd solve more to change things at Sega instead. What, unfortunately, I lack the qualifications and information to say exactly. I of course could come up with questions that would be asked in that situation, but there's an awful lot of them and its straying off topic, anyway, so I will refrain.

---------------------

7 hours ago, Space☆Yeow said:

Friendly reminder that Forces was in development for four years. For all intents and purposes, Forces was supposed to be Sonic Team's comeback game following Lost World.

Friendly reminder that the actual game only got 18 months, so saying Forces got four years of development is like saying that Rise of Lyric got three years of development. In other words, the extra years don't mean much if the end product is suddenly put on rush and forces whatever remains of the original game to be reduced to a shell.

And if I recall correctly, it was the fans who put the expectation that Forces as major revival game, not Sega and Sonic Team. And what were they going to say, "No guys, don't buy this, its not what you're anticipating it to be"? Ultimately, it was the fans who wanted Forces to be some kind of massive comeback-- for which I pass no negative judgement or blame on the fans for, but which I point out does not necessarily mean Sega and Sonic Team had the same desires or intent in making the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, MadmanRB said:

Yes but if Sega is closed off it could lead to another Sonic 06.

06 was a product of rushed development mixed with Yuji Naka leaving the team and a good chunk of Sonic Team going on to work on Secret Rings. Even if the fans told Sega to turn 06 into a green hill simulator with fart jokes, the game would still be crap because of internal problems and poor management.

Plus, aren't like, all AAA games nowadays released in a glitchy, unfinished state?

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mad Convoy said:

Friendly reminder that the actual game only got 18 months, so saying Forces got four years of development is like saying that Rise of Lyric got three years of development. In other words, the extra years don't mean much if the end product is suddenly put on rush and forces whatever remains of the original game to be reduced to a shell.

Iizuka himself is on record for saying the game started development after Lost World in the Famitsu April 2017 interview; and even with Nakamura's Famitsu November 2017 interview clarifying that the game shifted into full production for its last year, he also still describes Forces' first year of production spent on HE2 engine development (done specifically for this game) and the two years of production the developers spent working on the game to some capacity. If we're going to handwave all of this as unimportant, then that begs the question as to exactly what are we to assume they were doing those past three years? 

Decide they were either sitting on their hands the entire time or were busy working on another game before deciding to bumrush Forces together at the last minute? If that's their supposed methods towards handling multiple projects at the same time and/or their general workflow approach to building games, then that makes them look absolutely inept at their jobs. Deduce the game's production cycle spiraled out of control a la Rise of Lyric? That isn't really supported by any material that goes stronger than circulating rumors/speculation. Forces is functionally complete and doesn't have critical absent chunks of material that was either excised or hidden in the game's files. There isn't really anything concrete about Forces that implies anything on RoL's level of mishap and misfortune happened. 

1 hour ago, Mad Convoy said:

And if I recall correctly, it was the fans who put the expectation that Forces as major revival game, not Sega and Sonic Team. And what were they going to say, "No guys, don't buy this, its not what you're anticipating it to be"? Ultimately, it was the fans who wanted Forces to be some kind of massive comeback-- for which I pass no negative judgement on the fans for, but which I point out does not necessarily mean Sega and Sonic Team had the same desires or intent in making the game.

A pretty fascinating analysis for a game Sega/ST held under wraps as the final reveal for their 25th birthday party, a game that was declared to commemorate (alongside Mania) the series' 25th anniversary, the game headlined as the "major" Sonic release of 2017 (Mania despite getting the more positive buzz/reviews at the end of the day still had the relatively lower budget and distribution/marketing strategy); and a game the publisher/studio went out of their way to promote "from the team that brought you Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations" from the very first teaser despite the studio's most recent game being Lost World. If that's not an attempt by Sega/ST to try and promote Forces as something a tad more important than any standard / smaller Sonic release,  like the mobile titles or Boom: Fire & Ice; then I honestly don't know what is.

Like I said. People motivated to hold the fans accountable for the messes that Sega/ST made isn't shocking but still absolutely lost on me.

  • Thumbs Up 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Space☆Yeow said:

The Sonic series has needed new designers and franchise managers for over a decade and then some. Nobody should expect anything from Sonic Team outside of continued incompetence and negligence handling their and Sega's most iconic and most valuable brand, especially after Forces. But ST seem to have permanent job security when it comes to Sonic at this point. As I see it, the only hope we have is for more Mania-styled projects to be greenlit and managed by SoA, in which other people/other studios can be brought in and work near-independently from ST's intents and attitudes towards game design.

On that note, I am unimpressed but not surprised at people once again somehow scapegoating the series' fans at fault for Sega/ST's own errors. History shows Sega/Sonic Team making eyebrow-raising game concepts on their own accords and being hamfistedly inept at taking in and implementing feedback from the fans, especially from fans who are practically airing their grievances in ways that couldn't be more comprehensive and egregious if they tried.

But those who seriously think "the unpleasable fans" are once again at fault for the series' problems are absolutely free to point out to me where on these or other message boards have Sonic fans en masse demanded for the latest 3D Sonic game to have old villains to brought back as illusions that have nothing to do with the overarching story, another "actually 2D" game that barely has an entire hour's worth of 3D gameplay, roughly half of the game to be remade levels/recycled assets from past games, and Super Sonic as paid DLC; among other things. I'll be waiting.

Friendly reminder that Forces was in development for four years. For all intents and purposes, Forces was supposed to be Sonic Team's comeback game following Lost World.

Couldn't agree more. I've long been sick of the ridiculous idea that the fans were at fault for any of this shit for a rather long time now. The fans are largely the only ones making anything worthwhile out of the series. The most universally loved Sonic game to come out in years happened because of a team of fans that set out to rekindle what they originally loved about it.  The reason a plethora of different opinions exist for this series that far outreach those of a lot of other franchises is because of how divisive the base was forced to become due to how willy nilly they shift the script and change direction. 

"Yeah, let's have a poll to see what the fans want. We heard that some idiots want Sonic to have a gun. Hmm. We don't want to give Sonic a gun but Shadow can have one. That's a good idea." 

Yeah, the fanbase of any series, often have people that put out stupid ideas. It's the job of the company to shift through the bullshit and weigh in on what's reasonable and react accordingly to it though. There's never been anything unreasonable about wanting the other members of the cast to contribute in a way that didn't take away from what Sonic's original gameplay style was supposed to be. I understand that they wanted to experiment a bit when they transitioned to 3D but by the time 06 happened shit had gone on too long before it was time they finally figured it out. They didn't though. Instead, they just took the complaints about the cast to heart in a manner that saw them getting removed instead of fixed. Yes, there were fans who were crying out for them to go away but the reason there's so many more demanding them back is because it's obvious that fanbases don't share a weird alien hive mind. The fans didn't collectively ask for them to leave and then change their mind as a group. I sure as hell never asked for the other cast members to leave and be stuck with Sonic, Other Sonic, Avatar, and DLC Shadow as the only things I've been able to play with after 10 years. But I guess that's what the critics wanted and we need to find some way to make an accolades trailer one of these days. Wouldn't it suck if a game made by fans were the one to finally allow that to happen?

There's people who often site Sonic as having an era where all he did was a bunch of dark stories, forgetting that in order for that to be true, Sonic Team would had to have been reliably consistent with something, including their tone. But they couldn't even do that. The bright, cheery, and sometimes cheesy Sonic Heroes was followed up immediately by fucking Shadow the Hedgehog, a game that was for all intents and purposes, the polar opposite of Heroes tonally that also hinged on story elements from the previous game in order for it make any sense.

By the time 2014 rolls around, you've already got tons of people who grew up with Sonic as something completely different from what another group of people were used to. All of them either talking about how they love the Classic aesthetic and want to see it return, how they love the Adventure games and want to see something like that come back, or how they liked the most recent outing with Lost World and how they want to see that style return. Also, the tone of the games at that point were being compared to the tone of the games of old and that led to a bunch of fighting back and forth about what was best for the series.

So, of course, it was perfect fucking timing to then divide the fanbase yet again by scaring them with Sonic Boom. It could have been something relatively harmless that came and went as a nice little Television show focusing on yet another alternate universe version of Sonic and friends like all the other Sonic cartoons from before but the marketing was so fucking bad on this, that it led to talk and worry about Boom possibly overtaking or replacing the Modern series because it wasn't doing so hot at the time. Nowadays, here in 2018, the very idea of that happening is actually extraordinarily funny. The maggots are currently festering on the inside of the Boom Franchise's corpse right now, and despite being someone who enjoyed the show, it's hard not to look back on that whole thing as a huge clusterfuck.

Nobody; fucking NOBODY asked for it. They would have been fine if they had just made the show and advertised it as a show but no. They had to go and make it seem like it was some new, BIG, EXTREME movement in Sonic-dom, coming right out of the gate with not just a show, but a Wii U game duct-taped and super-glued together by a bunch of unknown trash collectors, a 3DS tie-in to go with it, a comic to accompany the two series of comics already going on at that point from Archie, a Toy-line, and shirts, and keychains, and blaaargh...

All this shit. Right out of the gate. They couldn't even wait for the show to build some traction and for it to naturally get all those things down the line. What kind of show debuts with two video-game tie-ins like that? It's so disgustingly arrogant and weird. Your Modern series is devastatingly confused after the release of Lost World and you spring Sonic Boom on us like a tyrant. 

They could have done it in a more humble way too but no. Just let Stephen Frost go around the net, talking with fans, giving non-answers to questions, and then complain later about how he wasn't having any fun doing something he should have known better about doing in an environment as tense as this during a time where the series was at its most confused.

The fanbase is only like this because of the inept decision making from the people up on high. It'd be one thing if their only problem was creating a division in the base and listening to only one side of it but the fact that they kept dividing it and kept doing really weird, strange, and random shit instead of fixing the foundation they created and just let that develop naturally remains the most baffling thing about them.

Granted, other things seem to be improving in a lot of areas with stuff like Mania, Mania Adventures, the Comics, this new racing game... but until the Frankenstein's monster that is their 3D universe gets fixed, we're never going to truly be free of this nonsense. At least, that's what I think. I'm sure some people will get by with just the 2D one, and that's fine. Let it be known that it only exists because fans came together to make it a reality. 

You know what happens when Sonic Team comes together to do it? You get Sonic 4 and it's endless, annoying, looping boss music that made me rage quit Episode II, not even caring that I spent money on it. I was okay with that if it meant I never had to hear this shit again.

 

  • Thumbs Up 7
  • Nice Smile 1
  • Fist Bump 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.