Do you think Classic Sonic should appear again in a Modern game?

[Marco9966]

Hey guys!

I wanna ask, since we got Sonic Mania Plus and Mania Adventures, is there any reason to bring Classic Sonic in a modern game again?

My opinion is no, as Modern Sonic can very well stand on his own and have his own game and story. Plus it creates such an imbalance in tone, look how dark Sonic Forces was and look how OUT OF PLACE Classic Sonic was.

Now that we got 2 separate universes, never the twain shall meet, and we can have 2 factions satisfied instead of only 1.

[Shaun Shikeishuu]

I don't think he should return in the 3D games anymore. He was fine in Generations but he felt out of place in Forces and I enjoyed his stages the least in that game. Keep him in the classic games and try focusing on some of the other characters in the 3D games instead of another version of Sonic.

[Marco9966]

Exactly! Why not have more stages with Shadow or Tails or Knuckles or Amy, or Silver, or Blaze!

[Diogenes]

Classic Sonic shouldn't show up in Modern games because Modern games are bad and should not exist. Even if we really have to keep enduring these bad games, there's no reason to bring harm to the good side of the series at the same time.

[Marco9966]

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Classic Sonic shouldn't show up in Modern games because Modern games are bad and should not exist. Even if we really have to keep enduring these bad games, there's no reason to bring harm to the good side of the series at the same time.

I will never agree with you and you will never agree with me on what Sonic should be. So let me have my modern-only game, and you have your classic-only games.

At least we agree that Classic Sonic should never be in the same room as Modern Sonic again.

[Razule]

Probably not, I'd prefer not at the moment. But I'd advise you not get overly fixated on it not happening because it totally will at some point probably. Someday. Like.. don't worry about it so much. It's not that big a deal. Just.. relax with this stuff.

27 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Classic Sonic shouldn't show up in Modern games because Modern games are bad and should not exist. Even if we really have to keep enduring these bad games, there's no reason to bring harm to the good side of the series at the same time.

Damn, no holds barred

[Multikaris]

35 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Classic Sonic shouldn't show up in Modern games because Modern games are bad and should not exist. Even if we really have to keep enduring these bad games, there's no reason to bring harm to the good side of the series at the same time.

Now you really don’t want modern to be fixed? It now falls under the same camp as Boom? 

 

And on the other hand, I want to see vice-versa, with Modern stuffed in a classic game.

[Dee Dude]

Hell no.

Modern Sonic needs to start avoiding nostalgia pandering like the plague.

Keep him away at all cost, I much rather have actual characters actively involved in the games instead.

I never want to see his pot bellied ass in a 3D game ever again, especially after Forces.

[Polkadi~☆]

No. Let them both be their own thing. There is no need to combine the two.

[Milo]

I mean, it depends on the context, really. Nobody's crying foul at classic Sonic merely serving as one of many character skins in a spinoff mobile game, or small image cameos in a specific level; compared to, say, having his own playstyle and a (supposedly) significant role in the story for a mainline [modern Sonic] title. This is more of a rhetorical answer since it's a wee bit obvious what most of us are thinking in regards to the question at hand at this point; and I'm with those saying no thanks. Especially since Sega/ST can't be arsed to do it properly in the first place.

Though unlike those conflating modern Sonic and 3D Sonic games as mutually exclusive topics; I actually still want to see classic Sonic finally have his day with his own 3D game that actually draws direct gameplay inspiration from the Genesis titles/Mania for once.

[Balding Spider]

Going to go with no. Or rather HELL NO!

Classic has gone the way of the Wisps. Sonic Team had one good use for him in a previous installment and since then he's just been shoehorned in just because the game was praised. They didn't learn anything from Generations and what made him so good in there, all they took from that was "Eeeeh well just force him in here because people liked it the first time!" His role in Forces had confirmed any future roles in Modern titles would be nothing more than an after thought and padding.

Just leave classic alone or with the Mania squad, I'd rather he not become the latest in a long line of forced Modern Sonic brand gimmicks.

29 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Now you really don’t want modern to be fixed? It now falls under the same camp as Boom? 

  

And on the other hand, I want to see vice-versa, with Modern stuffed in a classic game.

It sounds more like he doesn't believe Sonic Team can be fixed, and when you consider just how badly Mania curb-stomps Sonic Team's latest efforts, well you can't blame him. And real talk there are some comparisons you can make between the design philosophies of LW, Boom, and Forces.

 

 

[Strickerx5]

Nope.

Classic Sonic, in a lot of cases, is directly at odds with what most enjoy about Modern Sonic. Modern needs to be on its own path and develop. Hell, Classic has been worn out in these games so badly that they probably can't even make up a good story reason for him to be there (as if the other reasons were any good to begin with). Add in that he's simply become a bad fallback for Sega recently for cheap nostalgia points and I do not say this next sentence lightly.

I'd honestly rather have the damn Werehog back.

Either leave Classic to his own series or merge the two completely and get rid of this notion of a "modern" and "classic" Sonic. Classic fans definitely wouldn't want to see a boosting, homing attacking Sonic in a Mania title and I certainly don't want to see Classic Sonic in a modern one again.

Not to mention that ST obviously doesn't know what even makes his gameplay work in the first place. Seriously, Classic hasn't even been all that good in a modern title. He arguably has the worst gameplay in both Generations and Forces. He's more of an anchor now in these titles than anything.

[knuckles20]

Hell. Fucking. No. Let the nostalgia bait have his own games and let Modern Sonic (and everyone else who hasn't had a meaningful role in the games for over a decade)  stand on their own in their games. 

Also if Classic is gonna be in 2D, let Modern Sonic focus on actual 3D.

[Nicky Nicardo]

I've personally never seen it as a bad thing for him to appear in the 3D games. Granted, there definitely should be a plot-related reason for him to be there... but in principle, I wouldn't mind him showing up at all.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I'm so absolutely sick, sore and tired of Classic Sonic in the Modern games. It represents a lot of the things I've grown to dislike about what was my favourite portion of the series. I hate the fact it's now moved into nostalgia-pandering bullshit after Generations, right down to the sheer fact Lost World was a boring attempt to replicate Mario's usual worlds while Forces ended up being a literal Generations type clone with even less inspired levels (At least Generations had the varied level selection since each level had to be from each game, so you got one from Unleashed, Gens, Colours, Adventure, Classic etc).

With exception to three levels in the entire fucking game (Those being the city-themed levels which even then are arguably similar to Rooftop Run),  did you ever notice that nearly the sheer majority of stages are based on Classic zones? Green Hill, Chemical Plant, Death Egg, Metropolis, Casino Night. It's the same bland creatively-devoid nostalgia-pandering nonsense again instead of giving us unique level types and new levels. It might've at the very least been somewhat better if they ran wild with the concept and at least said "let's do what gens' did with it's level selection, but make it destroyed and Eggman-ized! But instead, it ends up being for nothing because the majority of levels end up being boring as hell Classic stages that barely have any major differences to make them interesting. They look beautiful because the graphics for Forces is superb and some of the levels have a few unique ideas, like Luminous Forest or Network Terminal, but nearly nothing is done to actually make them feel unique enough to be worth the revisit. Even Avatar's Chemical Plant attempts to establish the whole destroyed and frozen over Chemical Plant only for Modern and Classic to access it and literally discover that no - it is very much still operational and still the exact same zone as before. Luminous Forest is probably the closest attempt at an original stage, not counting the generic stages for the finale. 

But more-over, the headlining issue is this: It's not even Classic Sonic who's being presented to us. You want to see a nice representation of Classic Sonic?

Look at how Classic emotes here. Where Modern is more laid-back and snarky, Classic is more cocky, and temperamental. His expressions change all of the time to show him not having time for random bullshit like Eggman's attempts to look innocent, he's petty enough to hit a bomb when Eggman crosses him and run off when he finds out Eggman planned to literally double-cross him the second Sonic helped. Sonic jumps around between arrogant, cocky, happy, angry, sad. He's insanely expressive and has a wide array of emotions, and that is at least somewhat enough to distinguish him somewhat to Modern.

But you look at Classic in Forces and what on Earth do you see? There's absolutely none of the cockiness or expressiveness, or downright fun that made him at least distinct from Modern Sonic. Instead of taking a bland and boring Genesis character who only had a few random emotes and that's was it, and building on him like Mania, Archie (Mega Drive especially) and ADVENTURES is doing here, you instead have Classic just being a non-expressive, non-speaking happy-go-lucky dork. He jumps around and gives a few thumbs up and looks determined when people are in trouble, and that's about it. Instead of taking the Classic distinction from Mega Drive or even other material like Mania where even his sprites have a lot of detail to show him emoting more, it's just literally if you tried to slap Genesis Sonic (as in bland, boring sprite Sonic) into a story-driven game with no personality whatsoever.

But then you get to his gameplay and you wonder what the fuck happened here? In Gens, it wasn't 1:1 perfect in terms of physics but it worked and it was actually fun to play as Classic because at the very least, there was a solid sense of speed going on. The speed was consistent, and made it easy to traverse levels with a bit of trial and error and skill if you knew where the shortcuts were. Yet in Forces, it's an complete and total shitshow as Sonic randomly slows down for no reason whatsoever, and some of the shortcuts are downright inaccessible if one tiny thing isn't working, like the beginning of Chemical Plant Classic. Classic is such a complete fucking mess in Forces and it wasn't worth it, and it annoys me even more because it just feels like resources that could've gone to the thing that I actually bought the fucking game to play - Modern Sonic and/or Avatar.

And the underlying issue is this - I'm not asking SEGA and/or Sonic Team to shove Adventure or Modern, or even fucking Rush Sonic into Classic titles. I'm not asking for Mania Generations with Classic and Modern Sonic. Classic fans have gotten their holy grail game that they enjoy. So why on Earth does Classic Sonic need to be horribly implemented into the portion of the series that I actually enjoy more in a sad desperate attempt to appeal to Classic fans? Classic fans aren't getting a Sonic they enjoy, and better yet, they literally developed an entire sub-series for the Classic fans and I'm being forced to slog through a portion of the game I couldn't give half a crap about and hate because that's just more resources that could've gone to the thing I actually want from the Modern series.

Like, who on Earth is winning, or being appealed to here? It's a literal lose/lose situation as Classic fans hate and laugh at the completely gimped version of the character they enjoy, and better yet - already have a game dedicated to that character with fifty times better gameplay while the Modern fans are being stuck with a completely shit version of a gameplay style they might not even enjoy and having resources wasted on the stuff that no one wants in the Modern series. Generations worked once for the novelty, and the fact the focus was placed squarely on both gameplay styles, giving them an equal balance, and on top of that - having a very competent team on board for it. Forces literally has none of it and it's completely wrecked any of the good will Gens even managed to get for this idea.

If I want to play Classic Sonic, I'll play Mania, which is a fantastic game and the best representation of the Classic universe in years. If I'm buying a Modern Sonic game, better yet- a Boost Sonic game, it's probably because I enjoy the Boost formula and/or Modern Sonic and his universe. The same way I don't Modern randomly appearing in a Classic game to fuck around with that formula and butcher the pre-established gameplay I actually enjoy there, I don't want Classic Sonic appearing in Modern Sonic to steal time and resources away from what I actually enjoy in the games only so Classic and his gameplay can be butchered to fuck in a sad attempt at appealing to fans.

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

No. Sonic Mania and any of its sequels should be where classic Sonic stays so Sonic can move forward. I'm so sick of the nostalgia pandering we see in modern games. I can understand the fear Sonic Team has trying to move forward, given the nature of this fanbase, but for fucks sake, the developers can't even get classic Sonic right in the modern games, so there's no point in his inclusion. Classic Sonic, in theory, should be about the gameplay, not the persona, something Sonic Team doesn't seem to understand. They think iconography is enough when this is a video game so it should be about the fucking game. 

[Diogenes]

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

Now you really don’t want modern to be fixed?

My faith in it ever being fixed is gone. After this many failures, I can only conclude that either they can't fix it or they don't care enough to.

And if there was just the one Sonic I might still be willing to hold out hope, but we have Mania now. If I'm going to believe in ridiculous, unlikely things, I may as well believe in the Classic dimension (which I already like) taking over, rather than the Modern dimension (which I don't) being fixed.

[Multikaris]

6 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

My faith in it ever being fixed is gone. After this many failures, I can only conclude that either they can't fix it or they don't care enough to.

And if there was just the one Sonic I might still be willing to hold out hope, but we have Mania now. If I'm going to believe in ridiculous, unlikely things, I may as well believe in the Classic dimension (which I already like) taking over, rather than the Modern dimension (which I don't) being fixed.

So if modern were fixed, you wouldn’t like it?

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 minute ago, Miragnarok said:

So if modern were fixed, you wouldn’t like it?

He's not saying that, he's saying he doesn't hold belief that Modern will ever get fixed.

Granted, I still think it'd be easier for him to simply focus on the stuff he likes with Classic and just ignore Modern. The idea that Modern needs to be completely destroyed because he doesn't like it is downright silly to me, considering it's absolutely obvious by this point that SEGA intend Classic and Modern to co-exist as two different sub-series.

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

So if modern were fixed, you wouldn’t like it?

If it was fixed, to the standards that I would consider "fixed", then I'd have no reason not to like it.

But it's almost certainly never going to happen.

[Razule]

53 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Look at how Classic emotes here. Where Modern is more laid-back and snarky, Classic is more cocky, and temperamental. His expressions change all of the time to show him not having time for random bullshit like Eggman's attempts to look innocent, he's petty enough to hit a bomb when Eggman crosses him and run off when he finds out Eggman planned to literally double-cross him the second Sonic helped. Sonic jumps around between arrogant, cocky, happy, angry, sad. He's insanely expressive and has a wide array of emotions, and that is at least somewhat enough to distinguish him somewhat to Modern.

 

I think that's just the limitations of Modern Sonic's presentation and something that depends on the interpretation. In theory Classic and Modern are supposed to have the same personality. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, Razule said:

I think that's just the limitations of Modern Sonic's presentation and something that depends on the interpretation. In theory Classic and Modern are supposed to have the same personality. 

Except even Modern has more attitude and personality in Forces/Gens than Classic has. Modern is still a laid-back, cocky smartass while Classic is still just shown as a happy-go-lucky dork, so even that somewhat falls through.

[Blacklightning]

I would rather Sega stopped entertaining the notion that they're supposed to be seperate characters. They are literally the exact same fucking person. Just merge them back into one character again so they can take nods from one another and end this arbitary segregation of modern and classic that's been going on since even before Generations came out.

[Skull Leader]

No. I think the character was only justified to show up in Generations because of the plot calling for a kind of crossoever between both eras. His Forces appearance was much more shoehorned than Knuckles appearances ever were and felt like he was used only to recycle his gameplay in order to have something else to fill the game with.

Personally I don't think there ever was a need to have this "two eras of Sonic" thing as, at least from my own perception, Modern Sonic was never this "lost cause" that a lot of people claim it to be, as it too can have a more charming, fun and lighthearted tone like in the classic days since all it needs is to drop the DBZ/FF inspired bullcrap that plagued it because of the questionable decision from Sonic Team's staff. You know, the real root of the problem and what needs to be changed.

Having this Classic and Modern is IMO something that only panders to the more extreme sides within those factions, and leaves those who wants a balance with nothing since I really don't like how Classic Sonic is stuck in a comfort zone, while Modern seems to have been left for Iizuka and company to run wild with ideas that feel like drawing inspiration from the stereotypical fanfic.

[Biggs]

Let's be honest, it was fucking bizzare to make Sonic meet his former self even in Generations. It was always a weird idea to begin with. So rehashing that already weird plot device every game or so is beyond dumb and lazy, even for Sonic Team. Do you know any other media franchise that does this? The only example I can think of is Doctor Who. At least time travel is the whole gimmick of that show. Sonic isn't about meeting his former self over and over. That's just pathetic writing.

Sonic Team's aim by including Sonic's former self (I don't like referring to "classic Sonic" as a separate character because... well, he's the same fucking character) in Forces was to "entice older fans" to try modern Sonic games. You know what would be a great way to entice older fans - or, like, anyone - to buy your game Sonic Team? By, like idk, making a good game? Yea that could work.

Besides, Sonic Team don't even know what makes the classic Sonic games so good in the first place. Classic Sonic controlled pretty badly in Generations (with admittedly decent level design) and appallingly in Forces. They don't know what they're doing and should stick to attempting to make a good 3D Sonic game. At least they can experiment when making new 3D modern games instead of failing to mimick something really old over and over.