Team Sonic Racing - E3 Demo Footage/Impressions

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Detective Kaito said:

Well here's the thing. It doesn't have to be 100% realistic or believable. Sonic games have always tried to look detailed and surreal at the same time.

So what's the problem, then.

[Detective Kaito]

Just now, Diogenes said:

So what's the problem, then.

Like I said, the art style since Sonic Lost World has less detailed environments and blocky structures akin to the New Super Mario Bros games, while Unleashed and Generations tried to have more natural environments.

[GentlemanX]

I figure you can turn the dialog off if you want to. Like how you could turn off the announcer in S&SAR and the characters in Forces.

[Diogenes]

Ah, so the problem is that this looks more like the original Sonic games rather than like the games that abandoned that style.

[JezMM]

I think the visuals in TSR look really great as they are, but I won't lie, seeing them side by side, the Generations screenshot looks more appealing and like "a place I'd want to spend time in IRL" as oppose to just a bleep bloop video game structure created for my entertainment.

That said, if the reductions are necessary to make the game perform better (bare in mind these things need to be scalable for split-screen gameplay in a game such as this), they did so in the most visually appealing way possible - and it's kind of cool to see Planet Wisp re-imagined in this style even if I overall find the more "relatable" geometry the most appealing.  TSR very much feels like "a style" rather than a mere uncreative simplification.  It has artistry to it.

[Detective Kaito]

6 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Ah, so the problem is that this looks more like the original Sonic games rather than like the games that abandoned that style.

In my opinion, the original games tried to look realistic, surreal, and detailed at the same time, just look at Sonic CD or Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Sure, the games were only 16-bit so I would understand if someone had a different opinion.

[Strickerx5]

Yeah... when your track looks arguably worse than what was that same environment from a 7 year old game (which wasn’t really that much to write home about to begin with)... that’s not good.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, having a more “cartoony” style doesn’t mean you get to skip out on detail. From the very beginning, this series pushed what was possible with the tech it had. It’s a damn shame that dropped off post Colors for a visual setup that’s simply “ok”.

[Detective Kaito]

Just now, Strickerx5 said:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, having a more “cartoony” style doesn’t mean you get to skip out on detail. From the very beginning, this series pushed what was possible with the tech it had. It’s a damn shame that dropped off post Colors for a visual that’s simply “ok”.

I 100% agree with you, but I would say that this art style started in Lost World, so technically it's post-Generations, not post-Colors.

[Bobnik]

19 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Ah, so the problem is that this looks more like the original Sonic games rather than like the games that abandoned that style.

I'm probably going to regret saying this, but yes, it's exactly the problem. It just doesn't fit the post-Adventure Sonic at all - the art-style after Generations became too simplistic and too unnatural, it just outright doesn't fit what's been established since Adventure 1. Even Colors with more outlandish planets at least were more fun to look at because they were more detailed and a little bit more grounded in nature. After Generations SEGA has been trying to take inspiration from Classic games when it came to art-style, and it's very noticable in Lost World - a game with overly simplistic, some of the most uninspired art-style I've ever seen in a Sonic game, and the art-style hasn't truly recovered ever since. They tried mixing the oversimplicity of LW with more detail in Forces, that didn't work (though still an improvement IMO), and now this game art-style wise looks worse than any of the last-gen Sonic game that had a more detailed and not as simplistic art-style.

If I had to choose between "detailed and appealing, but doesn't take much from the original trio" and "strictly follows the original games", I'd choose the former.

 

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, Bobnik said:

I'm probably going to regret saying this, but yes, it's exactly the problem. It just doesn't fit the post-Adventure Sonic at all - the art-style after Generations became too simplistic and too unnatural, it just outright doesn't fit what's been established since Adventure 1.

Yep, this art style sure doesn't fit the art style that didn't fit Sonic from the start.

I swear, I'll never see eye to eye with this fanbase. Y'all win, I don't care to argue about it anymore.

[Plasme]

18 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Ah, so the problem is that this looks more like the original Sonic games rather than like the games that abandoned that style.

As much as I like Lost World's art-style, that's just untrue and you know it.

Lost World has a lot of influence from the Wii and beyond Mario games, including in the art style. Lost World is very blocky in its foilage, trees etc in a way that the classic games just weren't. The terrain is also very blocky and geometric, far more so than in the Classic games (at least in their presentation of nature).

Generations is far closer to the original Sonic art style than Lost World, which is what people want to go back to. And hell, people would probably be very happy with Sonic Heroes esque art style, which is in itself far more classic than Lost World.

And again, I like the art style of Lost World, and it is closer to the classics than games like Adventure, Shadow, 06, Unleashed etc. But people want the art style of Gens back, which was far closer to Classic Sonic than Lost World.

[Shadowlax]

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Yep, this art style sure doesn't fit the art style that didn't fit Sonic from the start.

I swear, I'll never see eye to eye with this fanbase. Y'all win, I don't care to argue about it anymore.

Art style changes

The art style for one part of the franchise doesn't fit another. This is a fairly common practice in art involving living brands. 60's adam west batman isn't hanging around modern DC

[Multikaris]

1 hour ago, LukA8 said:

Got the other two billboards! Though no one would consider Eggman a surprise, I guess

The above is a reference to Sonic’s very first appearance in Rad Mobile.

[Detective Kaito]

At this point I'm seriously wondering if Sega/Sonic Team/Iizuka/Whatever decided on this art style because it's easier, cheaper, and faster to create. It's not like anyone complained about Generations' art style.

[Sega DogTagz]

Lost world was in all phases an exercise in creating a Sonic game that skirted the development unsustainability issues of the unleashed model. 

 

I don't doubt that one of the reasons lost world's style stuck around is because it's less of a developmental burden than the alternative

[MegasonicZX]

I like how it looks (thank god they kept the trick system) but I really hope you can play this traditionally too since the team thing isn't enthusing me like I thought it would.

[D.K.]

No one seems to be bringing this up; Around 0:12, the song transitions into the start of Reach For The Stars in a lower key (don't blame you for not hearing it because Sonic won't shut up). Can't tell if it's an attempt at a "dynamic" track or a character theme like the All-Stars games, but if it's the former the full track might be like a medley of Colours leitmotifs as opposed to a straight remix, which I'd be okay with.

______________

Game looks about what I expected - All Stars Racing, minus the SEGA characters. Wisps taking the place of items is genius to be honest (and automatically a step-up from All-Stars just on the virtue of them actually being based on the source material) but, nothing about this really screams "Only Sonic could do this!". I could see Mario Kart doing the exact same thing.

[Marco9966]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Yep, this art style sure doesn't fit the art style that didn't fit Sonic from the start.

I swear, I'll never see eye to eye with this fanbase. Y'all win, I don't care to argue about it anymore.

SA1 has windy valley and emerald coast, and even lost world.

How doesnt it fit the art style?

[Milo]

6 hours ago, Bobnik said:

After Generations SEGA has been trying to take inspiration from Classic games when it came to art-style, and it's very noticable in Lost World - a game with overly simplistic, some of the most uninspired art-style I've ever seen in a Sonic game, and the art-style hasn't truly recovered ever since.

I'd call Lost World a shadow imitation of the classic games' art direction TBH, rather than a direct adaptation. Lost World's art direction relies very strongly on bright, primary/singular color schemes and has a saturated look to it, while the Genesis titles had more diversity in their color schemes and hold some restraint in the brightness of their colors. Lost World's assets are also pretty lacking in intrinsic details in the foreground and background elements of the worlds, which isn't really true for the Genesis titles. Moreover, the classic games still also had grounded locations that while having fantastic/surreal elements, still had an air of plausible realism to them (Chaotix aside, CD as well although not to the same extent); while Lost World is highly stylized to the point of lacking any trace of reality in their locations, esp. with one-shot gimmick levels like the candy world and the auto-running beehive level. Lost World's art direction compared to the Genesis games feels like an extreme simplification to the point of feeling artificial. Look at S&K's Lava Reef and even 3D Blast/FI' Volcano Valley* compared to LW's Lava Mountain:

 

*using Saturn version here for the updated graphics and added details/visual effects, though I think the Genesis original applies as well

The game IMO has much more to do with the NSMB games rather than the Genesis titles TBH, especially with the choice of directly ripping zone themes and color schemes (bright yellow desert, sandy beach with palm trees/waterfalls, red/dark brown lava world with dungeons, etc.); as well as reusing level assets across the worlds.

As for the game itself, it looks...fine, but not anything interesting. Wish we could have heard the music due to the constant voice chatter getting in the way, and I feel the same way about getting a good view of the immediate track environment due to the constantly-flashy effects used for items.

6 hours ago, Detective Kaito said:

At this point I'm seriously wondering if Sega/Sonic Team/Iizuka/Whatever decided on this art style because it's easier, cheaper, and faster to create. It's not like anyone complained about Generations' art style.

People did complain about Generations' art style being too busy at points with the background details, and that you could hardly make Sonic out in them at times. That doesn't explain why they decided gunning for different approach in art direction as opposed to, say, dialing down the background details so the foreground and Sonic would be more readable.

Moreover, you also need to consider the gameplay and engine being used in question when talking about how resource-intensive certain art directions are. The ASR gameplay aren't as demanding for speed as the Boost titles and --due to being racing games-- don't demand literal miles of tracks to be built for them as a result; and the Hedgehog Engine (2.0) is rather noteworthy for being a dinosaur in its design and being heavily tailored towards the Boost gameplay framework in its structure.

[LukA8]

Soo, was anyone able to make out what the character types mean in this game? It seems like every preview is saying something different.

Kotaku mentions one type best for acceleration, one having a better max speed but terrible handling, and one having more support techniques(?). Hollywoodreporter and the French preview mention how Technique characters have better handling but are slower, Power Characters are also slower but can shove others off the track and are more resistant. Now what is what??

Power sounds a lot like Heavyweights from Mario Kart, but I cannot imagine, say Omega having a higher max speed than Shadow.

Technique are probably the Acceleration characters with better handling, but overall slower. I have no idea what they could mean by having more support techniques.

While Speed...well, duh, but would Sonic really be the kind of character to have terrible handling, when he's probably supposed to be beginner-friendly?

[Marco9966]

An interview says that Iizuka was inspired by games like Splatoon and Overwatch for this co-op onlne gamestyle.

It's very original and we didnt see something like that in a racing game before, I hope it has a big success on its online mode.

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, LukA8 said:

Soo, was anyone able to make out what the character types mean in this game? It seems like every preview is saying something different.

Kotaku mentions one type best for acceleration, one having a better max speed but terrible handling, and one having more support techniques(?). Hollywoodreporter and the French preview mention how Technique characters have better handling but are slower, Power Characters are also slower but can shove others off the track and are more resistant. Now what is what??

Power sounds a lot like Heavyweights from Mario Kart, but I cannot imagine, say Omega having a higher max speed than Shadow.

Technique are probably the Acceleration characters with better handling, but overall slower. I have no idea what they could mean by having more support techniques.

While Speed...well, duh, but would Sonic really be the kind of character to have terrible handling, when he's probably supposed to be beginner-friendly?

They might have different gears and such to shift some of their attributes, they did say there were forms of vehicle customization

[Scar]

2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Ah, so the problem is that this looks more like the original Sonic games rather than like the games that abandoned that style.

I mean S3&K, a game widely considered the best in the franchise, abandoned the blockier art style of its predecessors in favour of more detailed/naturalistic look. 

I feel as though Sonic games at their peak, have always tried to push the boundaries of what was graphically possible. The only game to really embody that approach post-Dreamcast was Unleashed. Sonic Team have to date, not made as good looking a game as Unleashed and I stand by that statement. In my eyes, that game's art direction was perhaps the most natural evolution of the sort of look Sonic Team were going for with S3&K.

Spoiler

I thought Forces was going to try and bring that look back, but with more oomph, considering all their hyping up of "The Hedgehog Engine 2". But that game was so low effort I only ended up disappointed. Lighting is still worse than Unleashed and the textures were garbage.

As for this game. I think it looks pretty good. Its not quite Lost World and not quite Unleashed. A medium in between. The key of course is 60fps, so as long as it doesn't ever drop from there its good.

[Wraith]

I don't think the game looks ugly, but it doesn't look great imo. It just looks rough. The excitement of seeing Sonic on new hardware is kinda gone with this new style. It doesn't bother me that much though.

The game looks fun enough,  but I have some reservations, like how much content there's going to be. 15 characters really isn't a lot for a kart racer these days. It's cool that it sounds like there's gonna be some kind of story mode, at least, and I've been craving another Kart racer so I'll probably bite.

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, Josh said:

I don't think the game looks ugly, but it doesn't look great imo. It just looks rough. The excitement of seeing Sonic on new hardware is kinda gone with this new style. It doesn't bother me that much though.

The game looks fun enough,  but I have some reservations. It's cool that it sounds like there's gonna be some kind of story mode, at least

Yeah that narrative element sounds super sick actually