Team Sonic Racing - E3 Demo Footage/Impressions

[Jango]

25 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

A pinch of sassy genius? Doesn't seem accurate to anything before Colors...

That's why I said a pinch. Kinda like Dexter. After Colors they just roll with shit like Tails either being a pussy or a try-hard. Before Colors...? He was decent in Unleashed. Terrible in 06. Annoying but adorkable in Heroes. And great/good in Adventure 1 and 2.

[Blue Blood]

Tails doesn't suit snarkiness or sarcasm. He's best when he's humble, honest and a bit naïve, which makes him a suitable counter to Sonic's brash and cocky attitude. It works when he's trying going toe-to-toe with Eggman, which is why I think it's fine that he got pissed off with Sonic trusting Eggman to do a job that Tails could have done in Lost World. Other times in the same game though, particularly when he's acting smug after being captured and bragging to Sonic about how he can build anything, came off as out of character. In a team scenario like this where Knuckles is also in the mix, Tails needs his more toned down characteristics to create a good dynamic between the trio. The way he's behaving in this game is just unlikeable in ever sense.

[Red Hot Jack]

Oh I get it, Tails has hit puberty, guys. Very funny.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

22 minutes ago, Jango said:

He was decent in Unleashed.

Ehhh, he started that game off by cowering from Dark Gaia's spawn.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

26 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Pirate Ridley said:

Ehhh, he started that game off by cowering from Dark Gaia's spawn.

To be fair, it was established that during night time, Dark Gaia's spawn get a massive power boost, and considering Amy wasn't able to handle them greatly - despite being considered a power user like Knuckles, and Sonic was the Werehog at the time to deal with it, an argument could be made Tails attempted to fight back only for the spawn to keep coming back or overpowering him. We also know flying Gaia enemies were present too so it's believable why he couldn't simply fly away and escape, he would've been shot out of the sky.

I mean, sure you could argue it's the start of his lack of agency but I think it's given a believable explanation unlike later games where he began being a snarky smartass while being useless. That's something else entirely - he loses his agency on top of losing any sense of humbleness or kindness he once had in the series. It comes off as that one guy who tries to gloat and place himself over everyone else in terms of skill/power only to get put down to size once an actual fight pops up. It's not a good look for Tails, especially when his original arc was focused around stepping out of Sonic's shadow and being able to do things on his own terms but remaining as humble as ever.

[Jango]

40 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Pirate Ridley said:

Ehhh, he started that game off by cowering from Dark Gaia's spawn.

Wouldn't we all? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ These were demons, not robots. IIRC, Tails appeared in... 3 cutscenes? Maybe 4. He wasn't nor good, or bad in Unleashed. Just there. Game focused around Sonic and Chip mostly. The Dark Gaia monsters are also overpowered by night.

Agreed that Tails should be less "agressive", and more humble. Just don't make him too passive either. But I guess they can't/won't change it, so we better get used to Mister Snarky McGee

[Multikaris]

4 hours ago, Jango said:

Wouldn't we all? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ These were demons, not robots. IIRC, Tails appeared in... 3 cutscenes? Maybe 4. He wasn't nor good, or bad in Unleashed. Just there. Game focused around Sonic and Chip mostly. The Dark Gaia monsters are also overpowered by night.

Agreed that Tails should be less "agressive", and more humble. Just don't make him too passive either. But I guess they can't/won't change it, so we better get used to Mister Snarky McGee

Sonic 2006 says hello. And so does Shadow.

[Nicky Nicardo]

I don't see what's wrong with Tails being kinda out-of-character, especially in a spin-off racing game. I found it quite hilarious to see him saying such things. Is it really that big of a deal?

[cakito123]

7 minutes ago, FriesWithoutKetchup said:

I don't see what's wrong with Tails being kinda out-of-character, especially in a spin-off racing game. I found it quite hilarious to see him saying such things. Is it really that big of a deal?

Probably yes, when we think about his latest personalities in the latest games. People are over-paying attention to him hoping the next game fix him.

[Skull Leader]

6 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

To be fair, it was established that during night time, Dark Gaia's spawn get a massive power boost, and considering Amy wasn't able to handle them greatly - despite being considered a power user like Knuckles, and Sonic was the Werehog at the time to deal with it, an argument could be made Tails attempted to fight back only for the spawn to keep coming back or overpowering him. We also know flying Gaia enemies were present too so it's believable why he couldn't simply fly away and escape, he would've been shot out of the sky.

IIRC, Amy was being picked on by possessed humans who were behaving in an abnormal manner. She wasn't just going to start smashing them with her hammer as she could risk harming them. Had the Gaia spawns shown up in their true form, then maybe she would take on the offensive. 

Personally, I'm not a fan of how current games handle Tails and Amy, with one being to scared lately while the other just isn't allowed to do much despite carrying a big hammer. But at the same time, I don't think that either Tails or Amy are these badass warriors that recklessly jump into dangerous situations... maybe the comics like Archie/IDW do, but in the games they're still kids who usually only fight when there is no other choice left or have someone to protect, and it's on those moments that they display a courage greater than that of the big boys like Sonic or Shadow. Sadly the narrative of recent games that focus a bit too much on a protagonist that doesn't like to share the spotlight is not helping them.

Anyway, I really don't like the idea of Tails being "pure". In fact, the idea that characters are pure just because they're young kids is pretty boring and somewhat of a disservice as it keeps them from being just as fun as the rest. Take for example Amy, whose flawed personality keeps her from being another dull "good girl" like Maria, Tikal or Cream. In Tails' particular case, I think that the best interpretation when it comes to him trying to show off and be sassy without coming off as unlikeable can be found in Sonic Boom TV, since the writers were well aware that it was just him being a little kid putting up an act to pretend that he was confident or to impress others... little big important detail that the people behind SLW completely forgot, playing it instead straight and causing for Tails to come off instead as a condescending jerk.

[Sega DogTagz]

I've always felt like Tails should have a little air of snark to him, if only because Sonic is a bad influence in that regard. Its amazing Tails has yet to develop into the character who spouts horrible one-liner quips mid battle as an attempt to be more like Sonic.

When played right, that sass adds a lot to his character. I like seeing him throwing shade on Eggman's scientific methods over the course of the last few games - only to see the doctor rebuff and retaliate later in the cut-scene or later in the story once he gains the upper hand. I like seeing him show confidence in his own abilities, standing up for himself against perceived slights.

[Kuzu]

We've gone so long without any kind of consistency, hard to tell what's OOC or in-character anymore.

 

Really, I don't have a problem with Tails being a bit snarky, it feels like a natural conclusion of hanging out with guys like Sonic & Knuckles enough times, I just feel like it should be in smaller snippets. Like if he gets overly excited and it just happens to slip out, but he's still overall pretty nice.

 

Honestly though, that's not the issue with the voiced lines. No, the issue is that they keep fucking repeating them. Its amazing, over 20 years and they still can't understand that characters do not need to be talking all of the time. Fucking Bravo Sonic Team.

[Red Hot Jack]

Just one question: how many racing games were at E3? Only 5?

[jgcatindig]

*cue Forces results theme*

[Plasme]

Regarding Tails, I'm liable to either reading. One one angle, I can understand why people hate his snark. In Sonic 2, Tails was supposed to be cute and innocent, something which I think Mania really brought across. He's the little brother, the one who isn't as confident and somewhat needs Sonic to look after him. The counter to Sonic.

But I also understand that if you are best friends with someone as arrogant as Sonic, his snark would rub off on you. Sonic's the bad influence on Tails  . I think the problem is just bad writing. Tails is quite arrogant in Adventure 2 (with the fake emerald, thinking he's better at creating and operating mechs than eggman etc), but I don't usually see people criticise that, because he's written somewhat better in that. It's not just memes and over the top snark, his conversations are more human and organic. When he gives away the fake emerald plot due to his stupidity and (arguably) arrogance, it doesn't deflate the tension of the scene because he's speaking and acting more organically. Obviously it's not perfect, Adventure 2 has dodgy dialogue and the translation is atrocious, but it's better than a self-conscious parody of his character. He doesn't say "true dat" and tell Eggman "who's your daddy" when he gives away the emerald plan. I really do think the awful dialogue is the main culprit. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

50 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Regarding Tails, I'm liable to either reading. One one angle, I can understand why people hate his snark. In Sonic 2, Tails was supposed to be cute and innocent, something which I think Mania really brought across. He's the little brother, the one who isn't as confident and somewhat needs Sonic to look after him. The counter to Sonic.

But I also understand that if you are best friends with someone as arrogant as Sonic, his snark would rub off on you. Sonic's the bad influence on Tails  . I think the problem is just bad writing. Tails is quite arrogant in Adventure 2 (with the fake emerald, thinking he's better at creating and operating mechs than eggman etc), but I don't usually see people criticise that, because he's written somewhat better in that. It's not just memes and over the top snark, his conversations are more human and organic. When he gives away the fake emerald plot due to his stupidity and (arguably) arrogance, it doesn't deflate the tension of the scene because he's speaking and acting more organically. Obviously it's not perfect, Adventure 2 has dodgy dialogue and the translation is atrocious, but it's better than a self-conscious parody of his character. He doesn't say "true dat" and tell Eggman "who's your daddy" when he gives away the emerald plan. I really do think the awful dialogue is the main culprit. 

I think Adventure 2 gets away with it due to his development in Adventure and the context. Tails while more snarky isn't a full on asshole, or vindictive like he is in later games. On top of that, in context - Tails has earned the right to be a little more confident in himself. His whole arc in Adventure was he was relying too heavily on Sonic and needed to learn to be able to take care of himself, finishing off with him successfully taking down one of Eggman's arguably biggest mechs that tried to destroy Station Square solo, IIRC - it's even referenced he's considered a hero in Adventure 2. 

It also helps in-game himself, he actually backs up the fact that he's capable. When Sonic's arrested, he's immediately flying out to Prison Island to stage a breakout for his best friend. As soon as he sees Amy being attacked, he steps in to defend her successfully from Eggman, when the group need to get into Eggman's base, Tails leads the main charge through the outer defenses with his mech. When Sonic is "killed", he doesn't break down into fear, despair, or tears, he immediately glares at Eggman with anger and declares he's going to do what Sonic would've done and protect everyone from Eggman and his schemes.

Tails is an active character and can back up some of his bigger threats, especially since it ties into his development from Adventure. Not to mention Tails isn't an outright jerk like he is in later titles. He still acts like an actual character with a different array of emotions. When he gets tricked, he doesn't try to downplay it or act whiny with a "I was only trying to help..." like in Lost World, he immediately regrets it and then tries to fix the problem when he attacks Eggman once Amy is released. When he rescues Amy on Prison Island, he doesn't try to act heroic, cocky or arrogant about it, or flex his achievements in front of Eggman, Amy or Sonic, he throws a few snarky one-liners and jokes around but ultimately still remains relatively humble, and focused on the task at hand. Compare that to Lost World where every other cutscene has him being arrogant, cocky, complaining, or trying to pick a fight, or Forces where he's either arrogant, useless, or a total coward who needs Sonic to support him 24/7.

[Razule]

On 6/20/2018 at 12:56 PM, Ryannumber1gamer said:

On 6/20/2018 at 12:25 PM, Jovahexeon Pirate Ridley said:

 

To be fair, it was established that during night time, Dark Gaia's spawn get a massive power boost, and considering Amy wasn't able to handle them greatly - despite being considered a power user like Knuckles, and Sonic was the Werehog at the time to deal with it, an argument could be made Tails attempted to fight back only for the spawn to keep coming back or overpowering him. We also know flying Gaia enemies were present too so it's believable why he couldn't simply fly away and escape, he would've been shot out of the sky.

They could only appear at all during the night. Amy was never seen fighting them or attempting to.

[Skull Leader]

On June 20, 2018 at 7:49 PM, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Honestly though, that's not the issue with the voiced lines. No, the issue is that they keep fucking repeating them. Its amazing, over 20 years and they still can't understand that characters do not need to be talking all of the time. Fucking Bravo Sonic Team.

It kind of feels like they're this group of developers who think that stuff we now take for granted such as voice acting was still a novel feature.

Maybe Sonic Team should had left Sumo do their thing like when they developed the two previous racing games, instead of Sonic Team-ing the project with things like the three-character teams from Heroes that will probably result in either characters being left out or forced into teams of left overs, or the unnecessary amount of constant talking.

[Dr. Detective]

On 6/20/2018 at 12:12 PM, Blue Blood said:

Tails doesn't suit snarkiness or sarcasm. He's best when he's humble, honest and a bit naïve, which makes him a suitable counter to Sonic's brash and cocky attitude. It works when he's trying going toe-to-toe with Eggman, which is why I think it's fine that he got pissed off with Sonic trusting Eggman to do a job that Tails could have done in Lost World. 

I really wouldn't even allow him that. Sonic never did what Tails accused him of. In the scene where Eggman was trying to convince them to let him join because it was his machine and he'd be the best person to shut it down because of that (something I still agree with him on) Sonic was the one showing the most opposition. He clearly didn't want anything to do with Eggman. He almost didn't even let him explain himself.

Meanwhile the only thing Tails said was a crack about how nicely Eggman was asking them and Sonic backed Tails up on that. It makes no sense that in the very next scene Tails would randomly accuse Sonic of trusting Eggman more than him. 

Its not even like Tails didn't have a reason to be mad at Sonic in the game. Sonic kept ignoring Tails' advice and acted too fast, which made things worse more than once. You'd think they'd focus more on that instead.

As for Team Sonic Racing, I agree that Tails being reeled in a bit could help round out the personalities on the team. I just don't have too much of a problem with him having some teeth to his comments in general. I like the idea of him unwinding at least a little bit. Its more forgiveable in a competition setting for me.

My problem is more so that the writing isn't very clever.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Oh god, I watched an E3 demo where the player asked the rep, “So I can still lose even if I get first place?” And the rep goes, “Oh yeah, if you get like 1st place but your other teammates get 6th and 8th, then you might not actually win.” And as he was saying that, his voice got less confident, as if he was realizing what a broken system this could be. 

Please turn out alright, and if not, then please have a classic racing mode. 

[Marco9966]

2 hours ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

 And as he was saying that, his voice got less confident, as if he was realizing what a broken system this could be.

It's the blond guy? I think it's just his way of talking.

[Red Hot Jack]

The Segabits footage looks good, along with the trailer it is giving me more faith in the game! I think it will be a 7 game, not as good as Transformed but still good. Plus, that footage looked faster than the others, the guy knew how to play it and he still lost, so it looks hard as well, I don't know, hopefully there will be more options for speed and difficulty for hardcore players.