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Team Sonic Racing - Developer Interview


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11 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

Has it not occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, the wisps and automation and all that is only a really common thread across the games Morio Kishimoto directed (Colours, Lost World, Forces, Secret Rings), in contrast to Generations, which wasn’t his joint?

And as such, has it maybe not occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, he’s the one to actually blame for those? And that perhaps even that’s daft, because it’s Sonic Team and not just one guy making these games?

The fact you actually somehow try to spin the Puyo boss being approved as reflecting negatively on Iizuka just proves what Jova is saying. Even his point about Mania’s sales isn’t crazy, because there’s been notable discontent in recent years about the ‘indie’ trend of pixel art, daft as that is. 

M.. Morio who? O.O 

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I still think Iizuka is to blame somewhat. If only because he clearly has no idea where the series should go. He comes up with great ideas: the Death Egg robot in Green Hill, turning Sonic Discovery into Mania etc. But this is also the guy who was cautious of a 2D Sonic game in the Genesis style, and someone who's happily green-lit terrible ideas like Forces. He's great with interacting with fans and trusting Team Mania to make a product, but I think he's very hit and miss in managing this franchise. Could do far worse, but he's not blameless. He's complicit to an extent.

I'd say Nakamura is far more responsible, as is Kishomoto. Sonic Colours was a great game, but his other catalogue of work has been sub-par. And Nakamura's attitude is just as hopeless as I'd expect from the man who directed Sonic 06. Why they haven'[t utilised Hiroshi Miyamoto more baffles me. I know Generations has issues, but he seems to be a far better choice of Director/lead designer than those two. 

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1 minute ago, Plasme said:

I still think Iizuka is to blame somewhat. If only because he clearly has no idea where the series should go. He comes up with great ideas: the Death Egg robot in Green Hill, turning Sonic Discovery into Mania etc. But this is also the guy who was cautious of a 2D Sonic game in the Genesis style, and someone who's happily green-lit terrible ideas like Forces. He's great with interacting with fans and trusting Team Mania to make a product, but I think he's very hit and miss in managing this franchise. Could do far worse, but he's not blameless. He's complicit to an extent.

I'd say Nakamura is far more responsible, as is Kishomoto. Sonic Colours was a great game, but his other catalogue of work has been sub-par. And Nakamura's attitude is just as hopeless as I'd expect from the man who directed Sonic 06. Why they haven'[t utilised Hiroshi Miyamoto more baffles me. I know Generations has issues, but he seems to be a far better choice of Director/lead designer than those two. 

I don’t think Iizuka is blameless,  but I agree it’s more Kishimoto.

I don’t even think on paper, Forces was a bad idea outside of perhaps Classic Sonic - it’s just the execution turned out laughable. His wariness surrounding Mania’s success is somewhat questionable, but bearing in mind what I said about retro revivals being slightly out of fashion with some people now, I can to an extent understand his viewpoint. 

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1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

You’re right - Iizuka hasn’t hands-on directed a Sonic game since Shadow in 2005. 

I’m not trying to say Iizuka deserves no blame for Sonic’s struggles, but he’s far from the sole culprit and given he’s at SoA now I would argue it seems Forces was less to do with him and far more to do with the folks still at ST in Japan. 

It is sometimes hard to reign yourself in when you've got an individual with a face to put on the development team you've got so many grievances with. I do often make sure to specifically refer to Sonic Team (or SEGA when appropriate) when addressing my issues, when I can. However, if it's something I know for a fact directly traces back to Iizuka, I'll say his name. He often lets us know himself when that is too because, the fact of the matter is, the man says some really inane stuff a lot of the time... 

I'm still making fun of "Legacy Sonic" and "We made the Shadow DLC because we wanted to make sure we paid attention to Adventure fans" and "The moon was on the other side this whole time". 

I mean, it's hard trying to make sure you're actually being fair when you go off on these guys. The series is so fucked and we've been doing this shitty dance for so long, patience has run dry. I went on a rampage after Forces came out. I've calmed down now but good God. Four years of waiting for that? It's not even what I would consider a "bad" game but man did I snap at the mediocrity of it all. 

I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have the comics, cartoons, Sumo Digital, my drawings, fan-comics, these boards... sheesh.

 

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It is sometimes hard to reign yourself in when you've got an individual with a face to put on the development team you've got so many grievances with. I do often make sure to specifically refer to Sonic Team (or SEGA when appropriate) when addressing my issues, when I can. However, if it's something I know for a fact directly traces back to Iizuka, I'll say his name. He often lets us know himself when that is too because, the fact of the matter is, the man says some really inane stuff a lot of the time... 

I'm still making fun of "Legacy Sonic" and "We made the Shadow DLC because we wanted to make sure we paid attention to Adventure fans" and "The moon was on the other side this whole time". 

I mean, it's hard trying to make sure you're actually being fair when you go off on these guys. The series is so fucked and we've been doing this shitty dance for so long, patience has run dry. I went on a rampage after Forces came out. I've calmed down now but good God. Four years of waiting for that? It's not even what I would consider a "bad" game but man did I snap at the mediocrity of it all. 

I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have the comics, cartoons, Sumo Digital, my drawings, fan-comics, these boards... sheesh.

 

I think it’s worth bearing in mind that just because Iizuka says “we did Shadow for Adventure fans” doesn’t mean it was necessarily his idea. Much like Webber saying “Team Sonic Racing added in Rouge for the furries (idk)” wouldn’t necessarily be his idea. These things were more likely decided by Nakamura and Kishimoto, particularly given one of Nakamura’s biggest Sonic projects somewhat heavily involved Shadow. It’s a Team

Again, I don’t blame you for the lack of patience and I don’t think Iizuka is blameless, but he gets a worse rep than he’s owed. Nuance is key. 

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have the comics, cartoons, Sumo Digital, my drawings, fan-comics, these boards... sheesh.

 

This helps very very much to stay in this fandom.

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I've thought the last year of the fandom was the best in ages due to Mania alone. And now the new racing game. It's like a new golden age for me.

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Just now, Plasme said:

I've thought the last year of the fandom was the best in ages due to Mania alone. And now the new racing game. It's like a new golden age for me.

And the new IDW comic :D

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2 hours ago, Plasme said:
4 hours ago, Jovahexeon Sonic Heroes said:

Got a source for that?

From 17:50.

 

35 minutes ago, Jango said:

as you know, he feared Mania wouldn't even be successful.

Having actually watched the video,  O can confirm you're grasping there. He was  reportedly nervous about how well Mania epis be recieved upon first impression to the fans. It's not like he had no faith, but he had a realistic moment of thought that about employee with a game company is liable to have. You trying to use that against him is too much a stretch for logic. 

 

37 minutes ago, Jango said:

Also, no, they don't read to fans criticisms, dude. Forces is there to proove it, it's a fact. Game has a lot of things people were tired sick of: Wisps, again.

I mean granted,  we have people for or against them. Or simply asking to see them implemented and used as well as they were in their debut.  They can't please every fan in that boat.

 

39 minutes ago, Jango said:

Only Sonic playable, again.

Episode:Shadow which got a lot of notice from fans reveals that claim to be false. And like it or not,  the custom character wasn't Sonic. Forces jad isn't issues sure,  but that one you're citing is false.

 

41 minutes ago, Jango said:

Classic Sonic pandering, again.

Again,  there was no general consensus there. Even I, as someone who wasn't asking for him back,  do recognize that some people did and that classic sonic in Generations was regarded mainly positive. Did they really need to bring him back and was it really that good an idea? Not necessarily, but it's not proper grounds of evidence for your claim that Iizuka isn't listening. 

 

45 minutes ago, Jango said:

Custom character over playable Tails/Knuckles

In addition to contradicting your "Sonic only" claim,  you do realize that in order for people to have been sick of those,  that could have needed to have been something that was constantly happening prior,  right? Because this wasn't exactly something people were even initially expecting. 

And again,  you're losing focus. This started off as a rant against Iizuka. So why are you resorting to complaining about Sonic Forces?

Again,  you still haven't addressed the actual point on topic with this thread:

3 hours ago, Jovahexeon Sonic Heroes said:

your original claim of trying to blame Iizuka and throw shade at him without even providing evidence for your original accusation of Iizuka giving a terrible interview, Sonic Team somehow "ruining" this game, making conversation of the game unpleasant  for others in the process, and where you've got the idea that they're forcing a team mechanic on us. I

I'm guessing, looking back at it, such isn't as you claimed it to be in the first place. Hence the moving of goal posts here.

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1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

I think it’s worth bearing in mind that just because Iizuka says “we did Shadow for Adventure fans” doesn’t mean it was necessarily his idea. Much like Webber saying “Team Sonic Racing added in Rouge for the furries (idk)” wouldn’t necessarily be his idea. These things were more likely decided by Nakamura and Kishimoto, particularly given one of Nakamura’s biggest Sonic projects somewhat heavily involved Shadow. It’s a Team

Again, I don’t blame you for the lack of patience and I don’t think Iizuka is blameless, but he gets a worse rep than he’s owed. Nuance is key. 

I don't let those other guys off the hook, of course. However, the man does let a lot of crazy stuff exit his mouth and in an environment as tense as this, when any regular person who may not be thinking on all cylinders sees that, they're just going to put it up front as "Iizuka said" because... well, he DID say it. It's always important to keep in mind that it's largely a team effort but, I can't really blame anyone for not being able to separate the instances where all they're looking at is a Japanese man telling them something crazy and taking it at face value. It's apart of how he puts himself out there too. That's part of the job.

There's a definite balancing act to this. Not everything the man says might be his original idea or not but ultimately it really isn't the consumer's job to speculate on that. So I can see parts of the other side that don't find much value in holding back due to a hypothetical situation. It doesn't mean I condone blaming him for everything though. The man's done a lot of good but he's got like... 40 asterisks next to his name despite that. 

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3 hours ago, Jovahexeon Sonic Heroes said:

 

Having actually watched the video,  O can confirm you're grasping there. He was  reportedly nervous about how well Mania epis be recieved upon first impression to the fans. It's not like he had no faith, but he had a realistic moment of thought that about employee with a game company is liable to have. You trying to use that against him is too much a stretch for logic. 

Uhhh no. 

He said he was nervous over whether fans would want a 2D game in a 3D market, which is absolutely nuts because fans have been asking for a classic 2D experience in the genesis spirit for absolutely ages. And not just Sonic fans, but fans of gaming generally, just look at how well Mania did in the online sphere.The fact he clearly doesn't know this, because he was nervous about how the fans would receive it, shows how out of touch he is with this fanbase. I'm hopeful that he's at least more aware of it now, but the fact Mania is seemingly not going to go anywhere after Plus (he says it's finished and he doesn't know whether to continue it) heavily suggests he's still clueless on this front.

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1 hour ago, Plasme said:

Uhhh no. 

He said he was nervous over whether fans would want a 2D game in a 3D market, which is absolutely nuts because fans have been asking for a classic 2D experience in the genesis spirit for absolutely ages. And not just Sonic fans, but fans of gaming generally, just look at how well Mania did in the online sphere.The fact he clearly doesn't know this, because he was nervous about how the fans would receive it, shows how out of touch he is with this fanbase. I'm hopeful that he's at least more aware of it now, but the fact Mania is seemingly not going to go anywhere after Plus (he says it's finished and he doesn't know whether to continue it) heavily suggests he's still clueless on this front.

I mean the fact he greenlit and helped supervise Mania should really tell you he’s not clueless at all, innit 

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1 hour ago, Plasme said:

Uhhh no.

I'm literally paraphrasing what he said regarding it around the time you mentioned.

1 hour ago, Plasme said:

He said he was nervous over whether fans would want a 2D game in a 3D market, which is absolutely nuts because fans have been asking for a classic 2D experience in the genesis spirit for absolutely ages.

I think you mistook the sense of nervousness there. He was worried about how they'd respond to it as a concept, given how times have changed and multiple fans are asking for different things. Also, not much point lambasting him for whatever reasonable nervousness he might have had since he still went through with it.

 

1 hour ago, Plasme said:

The fact he clearly doesn't know this, because he was nervous about how the fans would receive it, shows how out of touch he is with this fanbase.

No, the fact that he was nervous shows he's careful if anything. Again, your claim doesn't hold weight wen you consider that he didn't even let the fears stop the project. If you're going to go after Iizuka for nervousness in that regard you've got countless devs to go after for daring to be nervous for any new product or IP they're sinking money into, based on how fans might react, Sheesh.

 

1 hour ago, Plasme said:

I'm hopeful that he's at least more aware of it now, but the fact Mania is seemingly not going to go anywhere after Plus

When "seemingly" turns into a certainty, then we'll talk. For now, you've just got conjecture you're trying to foist onto the situation.

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I really don't understand he being nervous about releasing a 2D Sonic that is just like the Genesis games, when:

- People been asking for this for a long time;

- They've been asking for it even more after 2011's Sonic CD remaster...;

- ...which was a big success, especially on PSN, staying on the top 10 for months and months;

- The remastered versions of Sonic 1 and 2 were also big hits on the Play Store;

- Which also showed Christian Whitehead's engine was able to emulate said games better than any other re-release before it, and add modern features on top of it;

- Many people raised hell about Sonic 4 not playing like the Genesis games;

- Which actually made Dimps and Sonic Team step up and fix a bit the physics in Episode 2;

- Less intense, sure, but same complaints were made regarding Classic Sonic in Generations too;

Perhaps what Iizuka was actually nervous about was the 16-bit graphic style rather than the whole thing being 2D, which makes a bit more sense I suppose, seeing as they're not scared of using 2D camera in their so called 3D Sonic games. In fact, their latest game had more 2D than 3D. 

It's sad that he had this fear (which hopefully is gone by now) because if I were in his shoes, I would've made a 3 games contract with the Mania Team from the go. 

 

 

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Yeah, I'm kind of on the side that's a little confused by why Mania was the thing he was worried about. It doesn't seem possible that he wouldn't be aware of just how many people were asking for something like it again. Isn't the reason Sonic 4 got made literally because they were banking on rekindling what people loved about the old genesis games? Didn't they put Classic Sonic in Generations and in Forces with his original classic design and gameplay knowing that people were fond of that kind of thing? Forces was in development before Mania so apparently he wasn't nervous about Classic Sonic and the Avatar being in that game but... he was about Mania?

Is it... JUST because the graphics were in 2D? That's kind of the only thing that makes any sense there. 

What exactly was he nervous about if not that?

... 

... Was he ever nervous about Sonic Boom? 

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39 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Yeah, I'm kind of on the side that's a little confused by why Mania was the thing he was worried about. It doesn't seem possible that he wouldn't be aware of just how many people were asking for something like it again. Isn't the reason Sonic 4 got made literally because they were banking on rekindling what people loved about the old genesis games? Didn't they put Classic Sonic in Generations and in Forces with his original classic design and gameplay knowing that people were fond of that kind of thing? Forces was in development before Mania so apparently he wasn't nervous about Classic Sonic and the Avatar being in that game but... he was about Mania?

Is it... JUST because the graphics were in 2D? That's kind of the only thing that makes any sense there. 

What exactly was he nervous about if not that?

... 

... Was he ever nervous about Sonic Boom? 

He was probably worried that Mania would looked too "old" or something.

Yeah, they were nervous about his pants.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Yeah, I'm kind of on the side that's a little confused by why Mania was the thing he was worried about. It doesn't seem possible that he wouldn't be aware of just how many people were asking for something like it again. Isn't the reason Sonic 4 got made literally because they were banking on rekindling what people loved about the old genesis games? Didn't they put Classic Sonic in Generations and in Forces with his original classic design and gameplay knowing that people were fond of that kind of thing? Forces was in development before Mania so apparently he wasn't nervous about Classic Sonic and the Avatar being in that game but... he was about Mania?

Is it... JUST because the graphics were in 2D? That's kind of the only thing that makes any sense there. 

What exactly was he nervous about if not that?

... 

... Was he ever nervous about Sonic Boom? 

Well there was those Boom live streams that you could see a look of fear on his face. Also wasn't he drinking quite a lot during one? I think Boom terrified him but he couldn't stop it.

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1 hour ago, The Tenth Doctor said:

Well there was those Boom live streams that you could see a look of fear on his face. Also wasn't he drinking quite a lot during one? I think Boom terrified him but he couldn't stop it.

I remember someone saying in an interview that the look on Iizuka's face when he was witnessing the characters get re-designed before him was something akin to heartbreak. Or terror.

Whatever he said, it wasn't a positive emotion.

Ever want to go back to old interviews and dig up the dregs of info they've either talked/lied about before the games come out? I always get a kick out of seeing stuff like that in reviews for bad movies.

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I always assumed his worry about Mania was due to Sonic 4's poorer fan reception. Both are fully 2D Sonic sidescroller throwbacks (or supposed to be) and with 4 turning out how it did, it's not so great fan reception, and it's final episode getting cancelled, he could've had doubts about going back to that even with the massive quality jump he knew Mania had.

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10 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I remember someone saying in an interview that the look on Iizuka's face when he was witnessing the characters get re-designed before him was something akin to heartbreak. Or terror.

Whatever he said, it wasn't a positive emotion.

Ever want to go back to old interviews and dig up the dregs of info they've either talked/lied about before the games come out? I always get a kick out of seeing stuff like that in reviews for bad movies.

I would be interested if could could find this

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2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I would be interested if could could find this

I don't have the source here, but I remember vividly his reaction to some re-designs made by BRB.

He was all like: -Naniiiiiiii?!?!

I mean, we all were.

---

Still, the fact that SEGA and probably he, since he's the head of Sonic, gave the OK to not one, but 3 Boom games + 2 seasons of a 3D animated cartoon series, baffles and puzzles me. They took the risk of investing in this new sub-series aimed at a young western audience, re-designed the main cast and released a game that's more un-Sonic than Black Knight. Not to mention said game was received as poorly as Sonic 06, the lowest point of the series. People were doubtful from the moment they saw that teaser image with the main 4 silhouettes, as I remember. And they still released even more sub-par games on the 3DS After the Wii-U game floped HARD. 

I mean, c'mon. If we don't get more Mania-like games in the future I'll be 110% sure people at either SoJ, America, Europe, Sonic Team, whatever, are stupid or don't like money and praise.

But I guess I'm getting off topic...😕

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4 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I would be interested if could could find this

Quote

"We went pretty wide with the designs at first, and by going too wide, we lost some of the spirit of the character and had to rein it in," said Rafei. "Sonic Team and Sega were very open-minded about our approach, and accepting of a lot of things we were doing. Ultimately, because of some of our really wacky ideas, we did find the boundaries of things we could and couldn't do."

"We experimented with different colors and surface features on the characters, such as fur or scales, and quickly Sonic Team came back with their discomfort of that. They were great guardrails for us to understand when we were deviating too far from the character. Without their input, the character would have been a lot more alien and different from what Sonic is known for." Discomfort may be putting things mildly, particularly in the case of Takashi Iizuka, the current head of Sega's Sonic Team in Japan. As Rafei recalled, "Early on, when we had our first review of all the crazy things we wanted to try, Iizuka-san came down to Los Angeles and looked through all the different concepts."

"I felt sorry for the guy because sometimes he couldn't actually look at the screen--it was too traumatic seeing all the crazy stuff we wanted to do. Over the course of that meeting, when we were coming up with new ideas, we had a very sincere--just two adults talking--conversation about why a character should or should not wear pants, and that was a very surreal moment in my life and my career," Rafei continued. "But it helped us understand the rules of clothing in this universe. Any small adjustment went a very long way, so we had to be very careful."

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/sega-explains-sonic-and-knuckles-new-look/1100-6418328/

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3 hours ago, Jango said:

2 seasons of a 3D animated cartoon series, baffles and puzzles me

One that got positive reception. What more logical reason do you need for that?????

 

3 hours ago, Jango said:

I mean, c'mon. If we don't get more Mania-like games in the future I'll be 110% sure people at either SoJ, America, Europe, Sonic Team, whatever, are stupid or don't like money and praise.

But I guess I'm getting off topic...

Well yeah,  it's off topic. Again,  you haven't even really proven your points in the first place. Those that haven't already been debunked anyway. Again,  what was with your hot take about the interview this thread is actually based off of? That never got answered and was just dodged. 

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8 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Sonic Heroes said:

One that got positive reception. What more logical reason do you need for that?????

 

Well yeah,  it's off topic. Again,  you haven't even really proven your points in the first place. Those that haven't already been debunked anyway. Again,  what was with your hot take about the interview this thread is actually based off of? That never got answered and was just dodged. 

I like it how you quote just the part you want to answer :P 

Go watch the video again, Iizuka was asked A and answered B most of the times, Marcello even joked about it in the first page.

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