Dead or Alive 6: waifus cometh

[Meta77]

Really? I used to have toon Disney but when they switched to their own channel I lost it. Granted I miss the old toon Disney. But didn't think they would actually show any of that sort of stuff

[SpongicX]

http://www.ign.com/videos/2018/06/09/new-dead-or-alive-6-gameplay-ign-live-e3-2018

Here's the footage of the game that was shown yesterday, straight from IGN's website. 

[LongcrierCat]

On 6/8/2018 at 11:44 AM, KHCast said:

Instead of sexualizing to the extreme women making them nothing but things to  wank to, they’re working more on the game and it’s quality? And that’s bad...how?

Because they changed it because of the "SJWs". We need a bogeyman for why women characters are getting the same attention to in depth character detail as the guys, you know. Don't you miss when those darn feminists would leave your games alone? Gaming is just a toy and not serious art unless the Gamers say so.  /sarcasm

[Plasme]

I've seen the typical eye-roll worthy comments that the SJWs have ruined DoA and that the game is no longer sexualised because of feminazis. And a few fans of DoA say this too.

However, a lot of the fans seem to be happy that they are toning down the sexualisation. Because they aren't removing it, just toning down the fanservice. And I think a lot of DoA fans want a return to the level of fanservice in 2 and 3. From 5 onwards (especially the DLC), the costumes became bland and were little more than revealing skimpy outfits. It's similar to Halo 5, where at the cosmetics look exactly the same, and while there are technically loads of them, they are devalued as a result.

Certain characters in DoA 2 and 3 would also never dress really revealingly (lei fang, hitomi etc). In DoA5 everyone did for dlc exploitation purposes and it kind of lost the individuality of the characters. I remember when Leifang had the Orion in DoAX1 and it was shocking to the fanbase. Yeah, I've been in this fanbase a long time . Helena's costume in this trailer great and like something she would actually wear from DoA 2/3.

I don't think it looks perfect. I'd prefer DoA to go back to its original art style, it had a level of anime that has been swapped out for realism. And I'm a bit wary of all the flashy mechanics that are creeping into fighting games. But I think toning down the fanservice is a good thing.

[Meta77]

I think if they want to tone it down it's  fine. It is their gsme. But even as far back as doa1 had fanservice even in the marketing  I've got the import artbooks to prove that. But if they are doing it to fit in well they are going to have a hell of a time. With so many fighters already this year going into next they are going to have to put a lot of work in. If soul Calibur can still show off ivy in game and people be excited for it to show up in evo without having to tone her down than doa can do the same. It's mostly cause no one plays it anymore honestly over all these other fighters out there.  those that say they never played  it cause of the fanservice indoubt would anyone when nearly every anime or Japanese fighter has some service except really injustice. Also on the outfits most have 20+ just cause 12 may be fanservice types noting forces you to actually wear them. Should still be a fun game though I'm doubtful if they will reach evo which is the entire point of this. Well see.

Regardless I wonder how they'll tone down alpha 152. Probably give her a giant jacket lol

[Plasme]

I said tone down, not remove. I don't think the sexualisation should be removed entirely, since that's a part of the game's identity. It's just got far, far, far out of hand ever since DoA 5 and that game's DLC practice. And yes, Dead or Alive always had fanservice from the start, but it wasn't this rampant and bland from the beginning. I've covered that extensively above. 

Soul Calibur 6 is a good example of this. I don't have a problem with Ivy, since that's a part of her character and no one else is really designed that way. It would be like if every character in Soul Calibur 6 was dressed (or could) dress that way, even Sophitia and Cassandra. It would just seem off.

Case in point:

This is about how revealing Lei Fang would typically get in the mainstay fighting games:

And in DoA 5, she often looks like this (mostly thanks to DLC exploitation):

The characters' costumes just became all so similar and homogenised. Their individuality and personality became lost. Lei Fang wouldn't be caught dead wearing something like that in the same way Sophitia wouldn't  .

This was even represented in DoAX. The whole gimmick of that game was that certain characters, like Kasumi, Leifang and Hitomi, wouldn't accept revealing costumes because it wasn't in their style (with the shock exceptions such as the Orion which played on this idea). While Tina and Christie had less of a problem accepting them due to how they were represented in the fighting games. 

This is why I'm happy for the sexualisation to be toned down. I'm not asking for Alpha to wear a jacket  , I want the individuality and flair of the costumes to come back. Unlocking costumes in the old DoA wasn't just fanservice (but it sometimes was), it was a part of the game to see the fighters in cool costumes.

[Meta77]

1 hour ago, Plasme said:

I said tone down, not remove. I don't think the sexualisation should be removed entirely, since that's a part of the game's identity. It's just got far, far, far out of hand ever since DoA 5 and that game's DLC practice. And yes, Dead or Alive always had fanservice from the start, but it wasn't this rampant and bland from the beginning. I've covered that extensively above. 

Soul Calibur 6 is a good example of this. I don't have a problem with Ivy, since that's a part of her character and no one else is really designed that way. It would be like if every character in Soul Calibur 6 was dressed (or could) dress that way, even Sophitia and Cassandra. It would just seem off.

Case in point:

This is about how revealing Lei Fang would typically get in the mainstay fighting games:

And in DoA 5, she often looks like this (mostly thanks to DLC exploitation):

The characters' costumes just became all so similar and homogenised. Their individuality and personality became lost. Lei Fang wouldn't be caught dead wearing something like that in the same way Sophitia wouldn't  .

This was even represented in DoAX. The whole gimmick of that game was that certain characters, like Kasumi, Leifang and Hitomi, wouldn't accept revealing costumes because it wasn't in their style (with the shock exceptions such as the Orion which played on this idea). While Tina and Christie had less of a problem accepting them due to how they were represented in the fighting games. 

This is why I'm happy for the sexualisation to be toned down. I'm not asking for Alpha to wear a jacket  , I want the individuality and flair of the costumes to come back. Unlocking costumes in the old DoA wasn't just fanservice (but it sometimes was), it was a part of the game to see the fighters in cool costumes.

You sure about that. As I said as I guess I got to scan it myself cause the few pics online are just scare as a apple. http://deadoralive.wikia.com/wiki/Leifang/Gallery?file=12281511.png

A lot of characters in the series are basically fan service. Lei us no exception contrary to how she acts in gsme based on early designs lol. Long as they don't try and edit alpha I'll he fine. I'm sure they will get some dlc costumes in the future. Or they can be like tekkens producer and joke threaten not to release certain characters stateside lol

[Plasme]

6 hours ago, Meta77 said:

You sure about that. As I said as I guess I got to scan it myself cause the few pics online are just scare as a apple. http://deadoralive.wikia.com/wiki/Leifang/Gallery?file=12281511.png

A lot of characters in the series are basically fan service. Lei us no exception contrary to how she acts in gsme based on early designs lol. Long as they don't try and edit alpha I'll he fine. I'm sure they will get some dlc costumes in the future. Or they can be like tekkens producer and joke threaten not to release certain characters stateside lol

That's concept art though, I'm talking about how they are actually presented in the game. Everyone looks different in concept art.

[Plasme]

Just reviving this thread to point out the incredibly unsurprising news that DOA 6 has not really changed the sexiness at all.

The jiggle physics are stronger here than in DOA 3, Marie Rose and Honoka are in, who are basically high school girls (the girls in DoA 2-4 never looked like school children). I'd say it's actually more objectified and sexy than DOA 2-4 were.

No idea if the really revealing costumes are coming back. If not, that would bring it to around DOA 2-4 levels. As far as I can remember, only DoA 2 Ultimate and DoA 5 could let everyone wear bikinis in battle.

[Meta77]

I'm proud and glad the fanservice is back full force

[Plasme]

@Meta77

As the other resident DOA fan on this forum, what's your opinion on DOA6?

I'm mixed on it. I don't think the graphics look great to be honest, and I really despise the new generation of female characters (Marie Rose, Honoka and now Nico) with the exception of Nyotengu...who's preorder dlc. I also dislike the art style DOA 5 went with, and DOA 6 is going even more into realism.

However, it's DOA, so I'll get it  

[Meta77]

It's more realistic slightly and has way more stage danger zones but honestly it looks like great fast fun. I'm more interested in the story honestly regardless of how cheesy it is. But atm it's a day 1 buy for me. I just hope theres dlc but not doa5 levels of it

[Danj86]

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 7:59 PM, Plasme said:

I don't think the graphics look great to be honest, and I really despise the new generation of female characters (Marie Rose, Honoka and now Nico) with the exception of Nyotengu...who's preorder dlc.

Late to the party. I don't really follow the news of games I'll probably get. Anyway...

You don't like Marie Rose or NiCO? Interesting.

I though those two stood out due to not having such an exaggerated....personality, compared to the other DoA woman. I also really like NiCO's design. It's like she just stepped out of an anime. In fact, when I first saw her render, I though she was a Vocaloid. Now if Kai would draw her, how perfect would that be?

She also wears glasses and as a glasses wearer in real life, I appreciate the representation. Although I was raised not to hit a person with glasses or a girl, so if I faced her in the game, it would mean instant defeat.

[Plasme]

13 hours ago, DanJ86 said:

Late to the party. I don't really follow the news of games I'll probably get. Anyway...

You don't like Marie Rose or NiCO? Interesting.

I though those two stood out due to not having such an exaggerated....personality, compared to the other DoA woman. I also really like NiCO's design. It's like she just stepped out of an anime. In fact, when I first saw her render, I though she was a Vocaloid. Now if Kai would draw her, how perfect would that be?

She also wears glasses and as a glasses wearer in real life, I appreciate the representation. Although I was raised not to hit a person with glasses or a girl, so if I faced her in the game, it would mean instant defeat.

I dislike Honoka because she's just boring to me. Although she does sort of play into the whole school girl thing with Marie Rose, so guilty by assiociation...

But I hate the new girls because I really hate DOA 6's loli direction since Marie Rose. Sexualising kids is something I just think is wrong. I know Marie Rose is technically 18, but when she has the body, voice and music theme of a 13 year old then you know they are clearly pandering. The fact Marie Rose is the face of DOAX3 makes me sick.

It's also something the old Team Ninja would never have done. Kasumi and Ayane were both technically 16 and 17, but they were designed with more mature physiques and personalities. The Itigaki era would never have started sexualising characters who look underage.

I know we haven't seen NiCO hyper sexualised yet, but I'm groaning for when it will happen, because she's another character who looks underage. And let's be honest this is DoA, and she's going to be hyper sexualised at some point.

DoA has just had a really worrying history of attitudes to women since DoA 5 LR in my opinion. Like in DoAX 3 looking at women change without their consent and distressing them is a core mechanic and in the VR version you can literally molest them. Again, I just don't think the old Team Ninja would ever do something like that.

DoA has had a lot of criticism for decades over it's objectifying women, and I've always defended it as not a big deal. But ever since these new trends, I've started to feel really uncomfortable with this franchise and where it's headed.

[Danj86]

5 hours ago, Plasme said:

But I hate the new girls because I really hate DOA 6's loli direction since Marie Rose. Sexualising kids is something I just think is wrong. I know Marie Rose is technically 18, but when she has the body, voice and music theme of a 13 year old then you know they are clearly pandering. The fact Marie Rose is the face of DOAX3 makes me sick.

I wouldn't know the details. I looked up a profile of Marie Rose and it said she's a Swedish Maid, her interactions with Helena suggest that she may be working for the latter. There wasn't any information on Honoka, apart from being 18.

So while I agree with some of your points, I'm still not keen on the idea of female characters all having the same figure. It's not realistic. All men don't have the same figure. Eliot is short and skinny while Bass is big and bulky, Gen Fu is old and flexible and Jan Lee is strong and fast. There's still Mila, at least. Now in Japan, they do tend to give cute characters a very cutesy voice. That's just something they do. Some articles I read said that Marie and Honoka are the face of DOAX3 due to popularity.

The other details, I wouldn't really know about.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

7 hours ago, Plasme said:

I know Marie Rose is technically 18, but when she has the body, voice and music theme of a 13 year old then you know they are clearly pandering.

Now I never played these DOA games or care to really... But when I saw this line from you I had a gut feeling something didn't sound right, because I know how certain people are i've seen online when it comes to their reaction towards anime and Japanese media and how it's obvious many of them haven't seen much real Japanese people/media in their life as they start assuming far more stuff looks underage then it actual is. So I looked up the character just to be sure... Yeah... while I can understand the confusion... but no. she doesn't really look under 18. I've seen tons of real life adult Japanese woman especially cosplayers online who look a lot like that character. While it is true the character is done up in a youthful cutey way... but that is just a part of the cultural cute obsession japan has in general. Many woman in japan are short, almost flat and petite altogether.... their media simply often likes to exaggerate this concept to appeal to them.

[Plasme]

5 hours ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Now I never played these DOA games or care to really... But when I saw this line from you I had a gut feeling something didn't sound right, because I know how certain people are i've seen online when it comes to their reaction towards anime and Japanese media and how it's obvious many of them haven't seen much real Japanese people/media in their life as they start assuming far more stuff looks underage then it actual is. So I looked up the character just to be sure... Yeah... while I can understand the confusion... but no. she doesn't really look under 18. I've seen tons of real life adult Japanese woman especially cosplayers online who look a lot like that character. While it is true the character is done up in a youthful cutey way... but that is just a part of the cultural cute obsession japan has in general. Many woman in japan are short, almost flat and petite altogether.... their media simply often likes to exaggerate this concept to appeal to them.

Marie Rose is a loli, this is something which is uncontroversial and is widely recognised in the DoA fanbase (including by those who like her). I do find it amusing how you've assumed I haven't met many Japanese people because I think Marie Rose looks 13. And it isn't just the way she's far shorter and looks much younger than all the classic women characters, but also her costumes and music theme. Saying "nah, looks legal to me" isn't a good response to the overwhelming amount of evidence from the game which suggests she's made as a loli character.

You haven't engaged with my post at all either, where I outline that her design, and also NiCO, is at complete odds with the other female characters in the long history of Dead or Alive. It's not so much how 'realistic' it is, but how it's a complete departure from the classic art design of Dead or Alive and what made this franchise popular.

6 hours ago, DanJ86 said:

So while I agree with some of your points, I'm still not keen on the idea of female characters all having the same figure. It's not realistic. All men don't have the same figure. Eliot is short and skinny while Bass is big and bulky, Gen Fu is old and flexible and Jan Lee is strong and fast. There's still Mila, at least. Now in Japan, they do tend to give cute characters a very cutesy voice. That's just something they do. Some articles I read said that Marie and Honoka are the face of DOAX3 due to popularity.

The other details, I wouldn't really know about.

That's a fair point, but if they want more diversity in the cast, they don't have to start making them all look 13. That's my problem here.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

5 hours ago, Plasme said:

Marie Rose is a loli, this is something which is uncontroversial and is widely recognised in the DoA fanbase (including by those who like her). I do find it amusing how you've assumed I haven't met many Japanese people because I think Marie Rose looks 13. And it isn't just the way she's far shorter and looks much younger than all the classic women characters, but also her costumes and music theme. Saying "nah, looks legal to me" isn't a good response to the overwhelming amount of evidence from the game which suggests she's made as a loli character.

You haven't engaged with my post at all either, where I outline that her design, and also NiCO, is at complete odds with the other female characters in the long history of Dead or Alive. It's not so much how 'realistic' it is, but how it's a complete departure from the classic art design of Dead or Alive and what made this franchise popular.

That's a fair point, but if they want more diversity in the cast, they don't have to start making them all look 13. That's my problem here.

I didn't say she didn't have a loli theme to her. I said she still looks adult to me. Like I said lots of adult japan woman cosplayers dress in the fake loli look and end up looking a lot like her. Honestly by Japanese woman standards the character looks to tall to actually look like a child to me in the screenshots I saw. Anyways I already made it clear i don't play these games so i wouldn't know what this series long history of style is... but i have to agree with the other person here and say that diversity in character body types is good. And no I don't care for your phobia of loli character types. As long the character is truly suppose to be a adult then that is all that matters no matter how many people feel otherwise. I personally quite like some adult loli-ish type characters such as Tatsumaki from One Punch Man.

[Meta77]

I follow a fellow cosplayer on twitter.id post her jap twitter but it can be sorta nsfw not sure people these days confuse me on whats nsfw and such. But she cosplays Marie and she is actually older like around late 20s. I do not consider her a full blow loli. That would be that dragon from dragon maid. I think shes just a cosplay character sort of based on that one idol. The one that liked making weird music videos but hasnt dont anything lately. the pon pon music video. (i forget the name.)

Edit:  this one

 

[Plasme]

4 hours ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Anyways I already made it clear i don't play these games so i wouldn't know what this series long history of style is... but i have to agree with the other person here and say that diversity in character body types is good. And no I don't care for your phobia of loli character types. As long the character is truly suppose to be a adult then that is all that matters no matter how many people feel otherwise. 

What a ridiculous response.

You can have a wide range of diverse characters without hypersexualising girls who look 13 and are carefully designed to evoke a loli theme. Your defence of her has absolutely nothing to do with promoting diversity of body types and dont even pretend it is. With the male characters you have older characters (Gen Fu), overweight/bulky characters (Leon, Bass, Bayman) as obvious examples. If you want to promote diversity then you should promote having the female characters having these types too. Hypersexualised child looking characters isn't done to keep the body shapes different but to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

And you can me 'loli phobic' all you want (lol!), but I will always find it disturbing how grown men are into characters who are designed and evoke an underage child. It's grotesque. But it's even worse when companies drag their IP's through the mud by appealing to them - especially when the IP's never did so before.

Although your claim that you dont know or care about the original art style is the big problem here - I'm most against it because it's a complete departure from the style established in DoA 2-4. Those games got shir for objectifying women, but at least their characters all looked fully mature. 

[Lord-Dreamerz]

5 hours ago, Plasme said:

What a ridiculous response.

5 hours ago, Plasme said:

Your defence of her has absolutely nothing to do with promoting diversity of body types and dont even pretend it is.

Maybe get over yourself little? I'm not pretending anything, I stated mainly facts. Honestly you can like or dislike anything you want. And I can understand you feel that the Loli style characters don't match the series style. But I find your attitude on this subject overall overblown and absurd. Also yes, If they wanted to do pretty muscle woman then by all means they can and I'd support that too. I don't agree with you whatsoever with the idea of adult loli style characters being awful or the people who are fans of it being scum. You know what is really disturbing? People who like to demean others just because of their fictional preferences and pretend that makes themselves better people.

Anyways I wasted enough of my time with this, so I am done here. It's obvious you will flat-out think I am overall wrong on this subject no matter what I could say unless I agree with you... which I won't. Have fun being mad with whatever parts of this game series you don't like and thinking your opinions are correct by default.

[Meta77]

I'm just glad I'm still getting the CE still. Japan will always treat things differently. Also there is a option to turn off jiggle physics in game. Just for me alone that button will never be touched lol

[Plasme]

22 hours ago, Meta77 said:

I'm just glad I'm still getting the CE still. Japan will always treat things differently. Also there is a option to turn off jiggle physics in game. Just for me alone that button will never be touched lol

What's in the CE?

[Plasme]

@Meta77

What's your opinion of this game now? I want to like it, but it really makes it difficult with its fucking DLC 

[Meta77]

On 5/2/2020 at 7:11 PM, Plasme said:

@Meta77

What's your opinion of this game now? I want to like it, but it really makes it difficult with its fucking DLC 

 lol i was wondering why i got a notify from this. sorry for late reply i do not check this site often as i used to. Honestly the only reason i still like doa is cause of its story and the characters, and the waifus. But I really dislike what they have done to the series. I do not want to be one of those guys that harp on dlc practices as many times i just do not care enough to be bothered by them but doa takes the cake. 4 was probably one of my favorite titles. Before the dlc creep. You had great characters, unlocks, and a lot of costumes. Heck even if a few were dlc i would not have minded. But now they have literally turned the game into a dlc machine. Costumes, characters, colors, hair options. All locked behind dlc. Its sad when i look and see that both doa 5 and 6 total dlc comes to nearly $2600 dollars is just mind blowing. I still love the merchandise the series produces but as for the game the dlc runs are just silly.