Improve a Sonic character's design with subtle changes

[Emerald Chaos]

On center mouth vs side mouth.
I think it works best if the mouth can be wherever it's needed tbh.
I think if it's stuck either in the center OR at the side, it ends up looking unnatural. Whereas if it can move around the muzzle freely then it can be positioned for optimally emphasizing expressions

[dbzfan7]

Give Modern Tails his fox snout rather than the flat one. Tyson Hesse kinda had something on that when designing classic Tails. Gotta have that snout be longer rather than short.

[Pawn]

2 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

That's the thing: The standard Sonic-character design is a mammal character design.  It can convey a wide range of personalities and species, although it's base template is a hedgehog, and that works well because it's a rare thing that is both edgy and rotund. But forcing in non-mammal features breaks what should seem natural, or at least it can.  The problem isn't that Jet doesn't look like a real hawk.  It's that he looks like a hedgehog they put a beak on.

Very few Sonic characters look like their real life inspirations, though. I don't think Sonic looks any more like a hedgehog than Jet does a bird. And while I do prefer the winged concept art that Blue Blood posted, it's not as though the Rogues were the first rubberhose characters to omit wings:

While Woody does have... talons, if you can call them that, it's standard for Sonic characters to wear shoes. My biggest gripe with Jet's design is that it feels cluttered with black markings on his feathers, shoes, gloves and around the eyes. The concept art looks much better, sans the faux talons on the shoes.

[MasterDisaster64]

Sonic: Give him the red soles with white edges that someone here photoshopped. Give him a red scarf that trails behind as he moves, accentuating his movement and communicating his love of adventure. Give him the back-of-head spine, though I dunno how it’d work in 3D graphics. Give him a tiny upward tuft of peach-colored hair on his chest and in his ears to mark it as fur rather than bare skin. And make that color warmer, resembling the tan of someone who spends time outside adventuring, and also going with his golden shoe buckles.

Eggman: Make his glasses into black, slightly larger shades placed in front of his eyes (not in them). Give him an open, red leather jacket with a collar that goes slightly up, a yellow shirt underneath and a belt with a silver buckle. Give him separated shoes, looking like they’re made for mechanic work.

Tails: Make the straps on his shoes and gloves more prominent to help show his mechanic trait (and make them all blue to go with his eyes). Make his shoes green to subtly convey independence from Sonic, and give him green pilot goggles to match (and maybe a shorter green pilot-type scarf).

Knuckles: Give him his darker muzzle fur from SA2. Remove the red from his shoes. Make his gloves into just wrappings of yellow cloth around his hands, with the spikes being metal and wrapped in with the hands. Make the crescent on his chest clearly smeared on, making it war paint of the Knuckles clan.

Amy: Like others have said, make her dress go up to her chin and give her shorts or a more drooping skirt. Also, make the red of her clothes slightly more magenta-ish to show both admiration and independence from Sonic. If she ever gets a super form, make it a copper-like orange/red.

Big: Just make his eyes more expressive like in early concept art.

Shadow and Silver: Give them the floofy ears like Sonic and their respective muzzle fur colors from their origin games.

Mighty: Bridge his eyebrows into his nose. Give his forehead a brick-like texture and add brick-like tattoos to his arms.

(Admittedly, a lot of these ideas come from the fan project Sonic Skyline.)

And as a general graphic effect thing: don’t give everyone a glowing aura for everything. Sonic has it just for jumping at this point. He’s supposed to be Sonic the Hedgehog, not Sonic the Plasma-Generating Cyborg.

Just a side note: I’d like to see how they’d look if their eyes were all pupil, just slightly narrower, taller and shaded in different colors that don’t clutter the palette. Sonic’s could be red (hinting at a more intense side), Tails’ remain blue, Knuckles’ be green (picking up the green in his shoes and showing his status as a nature man), Amys’ be a golden yellow, etc.

[Scritch the Cat]

4 hours ago, Pawn said:

Very few Sonic characters look like their real life inspirations, though. I don't think Sonic looks any more like a hedgehog than Jet does a bird. And while I do prefer the winged concept art that Blue Blood posted, it's not as though the Rogues were the first rubberhose characters to omit wings:

While Woody does have... talons, if you can call them that, it's standard for Sonic characters to wear shoes. My biggest gripe with Jet's design is that it feels cluttered with black markings on his feathers, shoes, gloves and around the eyes. The concept art looks much better, sans the faux talons on the shoes.

While a lot of the Sonic characters don't look like the real animal they're supposed to be, most look like proper cartoon versions.  Of the main cast, the only ones I have trouble seeing any resemblances to their species are Fang, Knuckles, Mighty, and because their quills are stylized more like hair, modern Amy and Silver.

It's true that Woody Woodpecker doesn't have wings, but he has a prominent beak and a design that generally flows well with it.  I think a cartoon bird should have at least one of those bird parts to fit; not so much realistic as prominent.  Bean doesn't have wings either but his beak is more pronounced.  Rouge doesn't look like a real bat for the most part, and her wings aren't technically realistic since a real bat's wings are its arms and hands, and thus she has six limbs instead of the standard vertebrate four, but her wings look enough like bat wings and are noticeable enough that her type of animal is clear.

Ultimately, ugly is subjective.  But I challenge anyone not to admit the Babylon Rogues look like they were traced or Photoshopped from pre-existing Sonic characters that aren't birds.  Even Suck the Cock seems better realized, likely because the joke is that he's a chicken and thus his design makes it clear he is.  Not necessarily a realistic chicken, but a chicken.

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

 Even Suck the Cock seems better realized, likely because the joke is that he's a chicken and thus his design makes it clear he is.  Not necessarily a realistic chicken, but a chicken.

Quote

Pingurules Jun 16, 2018 

I mean, we already have Cream the Rabbit. I don't see what's so bad about this.
kappa

No...NOoo...!

[Sonic Fan J]

8 hours ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

Amy’s skirt. I don’t really have a visual for this, but Amy would look a lot more aesthetically sound if that skirt were made more like a lampshade and less like a saucer. As it is, it looks like she’s about to knock everyone over with that plastic-looking thing that just flares out from her waist. That and we’d be able to get lower camera angles without seeing her hedgehog panties. 

 

7 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Not that this is all that consistent anyway, but it's more likely to be angled down instead of being flat or curving up in 3D models at least. But for 2D art, it mostly depends on the pose.

And she could just wear shorts underneath if it's actually a problem.

Honestly this type of conversation is part of what resulted in me giving my fan redesign of Amy a leotard. Was it a good design improvement? I don't know but I like it so works for me at least.

[DabigRG]

7 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

 

Honestly this type of conversation is part of what resulted in me giving my fan redesign of Amy a leotard. Was it a good design improvement? I don't know but I like it so works for me at least.

Leotard? 

[Pawn]

12 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

While a lot of the Sonic characters don't look like the real animal they're supposed to be, most look like proper cartoon versions.  Of the main cast, the only ones I have trouble seeing any resemblances to their species are Fang, Knuckles, Mighty, and because their quills are stylized more like hair, modern Amy and Silver.

It's true that Woody Woodpecker doesn't have wings, but he has a prominent beak and a design that generally flows well with it.  I think a cartoon bird should have at least one of those bird parts to fit; not so much realistic as prominent.  Bean doesn't have wings either but his beak is more pronounced.  Rouge doesn't look like a real bat for the most part, and her wings aren't technically realistic since a real bat's wings are its arms and hands, and thus she has six limbs instead of the standard vertebrate four, but her wings look enough like bat wings and are noticeable enough that her type of animal is clear.

Ultimately, ugly is subjective.  But I challenge anyone not to admit the Babylon Rogues look like they were traced or Photoshopped from pre-existing Sonic characters that aren't birds.  Even Suck the Cock seems better realized, likely because the joke is that he's a chicken and thus his design makes it clear he is.  Not necessarily a realistic chicken, but a chicken.

It's not that I necessarily disagree with you, as I don't like the Rogues much either. I can just see why the designer or whoever in charge chose to go the way they did, even if I wouldn't have myself. If it had been up to me, I'd have preferred to build upon the other concept art:

Something like that, anyway. If I had time, I'd tweak it more.

[Dash Speed]

Shadow needs a design that clashes/foils Sonics edgy punk teen. Maybe have gloveless cuffs and a more classier shoe style that look like fancy boots in areas of futuristic high tops.

[Sonic Fan J]

3 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Leotard? 

You know, what gymnasts and dancers wear typically (for competition and practice respectively). They were also popular (popularized by Jane Fonda I believe) as exercise wear during the eighties.

Some examples

Spoiler

And how my Amy redesign turned out

as well as a really awesome pic as a commission by spagoniia (swhistle for commission posts) over on DeviantArt (https://www.deviantart.com/spagoniia, https://www.deviantart.com/swhiistle)(https://www.deviantart.com/swhiistle/art/CM-Sonicfanj-776695503)

 

[DabigRG]

19 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

You know, what gymnasts and dancers wear typically (for competition and practice respectively). They were also popular (popularized by Jane Fonda I believe) as exercise wear during the eighties.

Some examples

  Hide contents

And how my Amy redesign turned out

as well as a really awesome pic as a commission by spagoniia (swhistle for commission posts) over on DeviantArt (https://www.deviantart.com/spagoniia, https://www.deviantart.com/swhiistle)(https://www.deviantart.com/swhiistle/art/CM-Sonicfanj-776695503)

 

Oh, that's what that shit is!

 

...That's shit as in "thing," btw.

[Rowl]

I drew a picture off Big the Cat where I gave him a bit more fishing items, so that you can tell, that he is a fisher.

[DabigRG]

On 12/26/2018 at 2:37 AM, DabigRG said:

Alternate Zavok Color Schemes

Here's some better renders I managed to scavenge along with what I did before.

On 12/28/2018 at 7:21 AM, Rowl said:

I drew a picture off Big the Cat where I gave him a bit more fishing items, so that you can tell, that he is a fisher.

Any particular reason his belt's hiked up?

Also, he has toes?

[MadmanRB]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Also, he has toes?

I know, holy shit a Sonic artist knows what toes are!

[Your Vest Friend]

Can you guys cut it with the creative difference scrutiny and assess the actual elements being proposed?

Personally I'm not so sure on the hat solely due to the fact the ears are so large they command all the attention in the upper area, it's finicky to pull off a hat with that. 

The lures and pouches on the belt seems like a reasonable tweak though. Gives some acknowledgement to an Adventure element too. 

[DabigRG]

32 minutes ago, MadmanRB said:

I know, holy shit a Sonic artist knows what toes are!

Not a SEGA one, that's for sure. 

11 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

Can you guys cut it with the creative difference scrutiny and assess the actual elements being proposed?

Oh, has that been much of an issue?

 

14 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

 

The lures and pouches on the belt seems like a reasonable tweak though. Gives some acknowledgement to an Adventure element too. 

Yeah, those are indeed a nice touch.

[dbzfan7]

On 12/26/2018 at 11:04 PM, DabigRG said:

No...NOoo...!

I will never unsee this, cream is ruined forever for me....thanks......

[Rowl]

The toe thing always bothered me. I personally would draw the Sonic characters always with toes. They also have fingers, so why no toes?

[DabigRG]

8 hours ago, dbzfan7 said:

I will never unsee this, cream is ruined forever for me....thanks......

What's weird is that's technically not the first time that aspect has come up(see Mr Flynn on Worlds Collide, for example), but having her directly referenced in comparison to...him...really puts it into perspective. 

But you're welcome.    

6 hours ago, Rowl said:

The toe thing always bothered me. I personally would draw the Sonic characters always with toes. They also have fingers, so why no toes?

I guess its because fingers are a crucial part of anthropomorphic anatomy(and even some other species), whereas toes are just kind of...there, visually speaking.

[RedNether]

I'd give Amy her Boom design, with one alteration. no sports tape around the waist, make it a sash in that color.

Doesn't that look better and still compliment Amy's color scheme? 

In regards to Sonic, shorten him up (which admittedly is being done already), give him the longer spines. SA1 light-speed shoes, crystal ring and fingerless gloves.

Edited December 31, 2018 by RedNether
Missing sentence.

[Mountaindewandsprite]

12 hours ago, RedNether said:

give him the longer spines.

I have an issue with longer spines that mimic flowing hair. Giving him longer spines makes him look more akin to a porcupine than a hedgehog. That's why I believe his classic and modern designs should be combined, possessing classic Sonic's shorter spines and modern Sonic's irises. Hell, a lot of characters, such as Tails and Knuckles could use some of their classic designs where they had longer snouts. Tails actually looked like a fox and Knuckles? Well...at least he had a longer snout to sort of make him look closer to an echidna.

Speaking of echidnas, Knuckles' design should have lacked a button nose and replaced it with two nasal openings. Echidnas have beaks. 

[RedNether]

5 minutes ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

I have an issue with longer spines that mimic flowing hair. Giving him longer spines makes him look more akin to a porcupine than a hedgehog. That's why I believe his classic and modern designs should be combined, possessing classic Sonic's shorter spines and modern Sonic's irises. Hell, a lot of characters, such as Tails and Knuckles could use some of their classic designs where they had longer snouts. Tails actually looked like a fox and Knuckles? Well...at least he had a longer snout to sort of make him look closer to an echidna.

Speaking of echidnas, Knuckles' design should have lacked a button nose and replaced it with two nasal openings. Echidnas have beaks. 

Well, neither Sonic nor Knuckles particularly look like real life Hedgehogs and Echidnas. so forgive me if I'm not sticking to realism in this scenario.

[Mountaindewandsprite]

7 minutes ago, RedNether said:

Well, neither Sonic nor Knuckles particularly look like real life Hedgehogs and Echidnas. so forgive me if I'm not sticking to realism in this scenario.

Eh, true.

 

[StaticMania]

In Sonic's design standards, skimping on details like Echidnas having snouts with open nostrils is the right call.

It doesn't really matter about realism, it's more about what looks better.