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Marco9966

Do you aggree with the Two-worlds??

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Hey guys!

I wanted to know, what do you think about the two worlds?

I disagree with it, as it creates many plotholes in the games, and it's never stated in the games that there are two worlds.

What about you?

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Plot holes are the number one problem with the two world concept as a whole when looked at retroactively, though admittedly I don't personally have a problem with the concept itself. There are any number of stories that could be told using such a set up, and if the means of travel necessary to make it work were properly addressed even Blaze's world would become more accessible creating even further avenues of adventure. In fact, I almost welcome the two world idea and even more worlds such as Blaze's and Little Planet since Sonic was demonstrated to be able hit all of the major locations in the world in a single adventure with Unleashed. When you have a globetrotting adventurer like Sonic, and world conqueror like Eggman (who has in the past conquered several planets in games like CD and Colors) then being limited to only one small world makes the scope of Sonic's adventuring seem too small.

All of that said though, to make it work it work you would either have to reboot the franchise or properly introduce some means of interplanetary travel that is both easily accessible, to explain why the average person is aware and comfortable with certain things that should have occurred on one world or the other, and also random to explain how the Chaos Emeralds and even Angel Island end up on both worlds. I've always been partial to the idea of having random warp zones like in the OVA and a public and controlled system using controlled warp zones in a setup like the Astral Gates from Cowboy Bebop but resting on the water in the harbors of major and maybe even some rural cities. Taking that type of ideology even further, to properly introduce the gates and their common use I would tell a whole story around trying to properly establish a functioning gate to Blaze's world and the conflict that erupts with Eggman trying to use it for his own nefarious ends.

So yeah, I'm good with the idea, just not the current implementation.

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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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aaa-I mean that this subject been kinda done to death in other topics.

Basically it boils down than many people don't like , many are just willing to deal with it, very few actually seem to enjoy it.

It seems to only make thing confusing (considering that not a single game referenced it so far) without any obvious improvements to world and lore.). But at the end of a day, if it will stay for ever in the background, it's just not worth loosing sleep over.

If IDW or future games actually explore the subject, only then I'm willing to give a damn.

Lastly I must point out it's ironic that for years people demanded answer about "Mobius/Earth" question and this seeming compromise only angered them.

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OK

I like the idea of there being a world with all animals. I think the animal characters are inherently more interesting than the human characters.I like the idea of an expansion of a sonic type only world, with its own villians + eggman. I like that idea, if they rebooted all of it to be that way. If they rebooted all of it so SA1 and 2 purely took place in sonic land and maybe the human element in shadow's backstory didn't exist. 

As it stands which is " Eh its two worlds now, lets not focus on the human part right now " kind feels like a desire to have that sort of restructuring with out actually committing to getting rid of a bunch of shit. Just Not talking about it makes things kinda weird, and sorta makes a bunch of previous stories wack. Makes characters like Shadow weird to even have around, and if you care about sonic 06 in regards to silver makes a game that already made almost no sense, make less sense. 

So i gotta deal with it, but it seems like a cop out not to reboot sonic. To create.. to be quite honest a very boom simular state of affairs at the moment focused on sonic only team centered state of affairs. If they wanna just reboot shit, they should do it, go all out, maybe go all the way back to sa1 and 2 and remake the stories there. I dunno. I'm just kinda at the point where i'm like i wouldn't be so heart broken if you rebooted the 3d part of sonic. Its been while since it started , I wouldn't mind a more consistent direction . And I don't feel like i'm owed sonic to stay the same forever. 

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I’ll wait for the subject to be explored. (Team Sonic Racing looks like it will do the trick) But I noted there were signs of it as early as Unleashed if not more. Like how the Gaia Temple Builders apparently had less of a connection to pre-established Sonic elements than what came before. 

 

Though I agree on the OTHER two-worlds split (so is it three worlds now, not counting stuff like the Sol Dimension and Maginary World?), if only for the sake of a future Dreamcast split.

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Eh, I don't really mind it too much.

The only two issues are that it wasn't clearly established/explained within the games(not that it really mattered most of the time) and that it does seem just tad complicated/confusing because of the first issue.

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2 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

All of that said though, to make it work it work you would either have to reboot the franchise

At times I wonder if Unleashed was supposed to be this. I mean, as it is now it's a quasi-reboot (radically different tone, absence of much of the cast).

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

As it stands which is " Eh its two worlds now, lets not focus on the human part right now " kind feels like a desire to have that sort of restructuring with out actually committing to getting rid of a bunch of shit. Just Not talking about it makes things kinda weird, and sorta makes a bunch of previous stories wack. Makes characters like Shadow weird to even have around, and if you care about sonic 06 in regards to silver makes a game that already made almost no sense, make less sense.

More or less this. It comes off like Iizuka and Co. now declared the Adventure era a mistake (at least when it comes to the setting and human involved plots) but don't want to go all the way and reboot them away since they want to bring back elements like Shadow for nostalgia. GUN's already been informally jettisoned out with it only coming up for little cameos and gag strips.

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I actually quite like the idea, it gives Sonic a greater breadth of more fantastic locations to play with (without always just having to find one more suspiciously similar undiscovered magical island, as tended to happen when it was just Earth) and I would be happy with the setup if it was actually referenced in any coherent way in the games.

I have no clue why Sonic Team have tried to retroactively shoehorn in this idea without actually defining or even mentioning it outside of interviews; if you want to introduce a concept like this, that's fine but you have to actually do it, not leave it hanging without any explanation for over a decade.

If they really wanted to go this route, they also should have implemented it from the get go in the Adventure games; trying to do it now creates a whole mess of unnecessary plot holes. While most of them can be kinda sorta filled (Gerald Robotnik travelled between the worlds often; the ancient Echidna forbears were nomadic and migrated through the gateway from Sonic's world to the Mystic Ruins on Earth in ancient history; GUN's remit only extends to Earth; Angel Island travels through the gateway between both worlds periodically; the Chaos Emeralds warp between both worlds) it's... really cumbersome and inelegant storytelling.

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30 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

It doesn't really make a lot of sense and it makes things even more inconsistent, but there's not really much any of us can do about it now.

This, basically. It feels like a really wishy washy attempt to please two sides but really just fucks things up for everyone, but among all of Sonic Team's terrible decisions it causes probably the least overt problems, so like, whatever. I'll consider getting mad about this if/when they fix enough for me to care about Modern Sonic's continuity in the first place.

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I think the best way to rationalize and try to make sense out of the whole ‘two worlds’ proposal (a future game could of course completely contradict this) is to not take the word ‘world’ to mean a different dimension/planet, but rather different regions of the same world. To me, it would make a lot more sense if some regions/continents of the one world tended to be populated more by humans, and other areas had majority anthro civilizations.

To me, Sonic Adventure actually kind of fits in with this, if you consider Station Square and the Mystic Ruins as locales in the human and animal ‘worlds’, respectively. Station Square is majority human (although Amy appears to be living there at that point), while the Mystic Ruins seems to have more of an anthro civilization and background, with Big and Tails having their own set ups there, not to mention its history with the Echidna Civilization, plus the obviously unfamiliar team of human explorers that are wandering around. The only "portals" or "gateways" people need to travel through are the Station Square train tunnels. ^_^

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1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

This, basically. It feels like a really wishy washy attempt to please two sides but really just fucks things up for everyone, but among all of Sonic Team's terrible decisions it causes probably the least overt problems, so like, whatever. I'll consider getting mad about this if/when they fix enough for me to care about Modern Sonic's continuity in the first place.

It's funny, and I'm not sure if I'm in the minority for this, but I actually dislike the two worlds retcon far less than the whole two dimensions one - that seemed an entirely unnecessary and out of left field decision, and I absolutely loathe the fact that even before that, they decided to make Classic Sonic mute. The Sonic Mania team have admittedly made the best of it with Sonic Mania Adventures, but even so, it seems a really demented direction to take arguably the most iconic part of the series in.

Comparatively, the two worlds thing - while badly implemented - feels a lot less disagreeable and ultimately makes changes that impact the series less markedly.

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2 minutes ago, Gotta Go Rational said:

I think the best way to rationalize and try to make sense out of the whole ‘two worlds’ proposal (a future game could of course completely contradict this) is to not take the word ‘world’ to mean a different dimension/planet, but rather different regions of the same world. To me, it would make a lot more sense if some regions/continents of the one world tended to be populated more by humans, and other areas had majority anthro civilizations.

 

If we're gonna take the Death of the Author, why acknowledge two worlds at all?

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I don't think it is something that necessarily needs to be acknowledged. But having read the English translations of Iizuka's statements regarding two worlds, they are, in my mind, too vague to know that he literally meant some games take place in different dimensions/planets, in a series that has never acknowledged it in any official media to my knowledge. The word "world" can be used in many different ways, and we're getting that via translation. I'm not disagreeing, I'm simply saying if one were looking for reconciliation between Iizuka's translated explanation and the games in as clean a way as possible, that could be it.

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See, I don't necessarily mind when there are humans in the Sonic world, but... this entire "Two Worlds" stuff is incredibly confusing to me  as a long-time fan and difficult to understand if we're talking about characters like Shadow, who has a very large involvement with humans in his past. Now, if it were different canons (not saying this is a good idea either), then maaaybe, but just maybe I could get behind it.

And as a fan creator myself who loves to delve into lore to make my OCs more accurate to the series' canon, this "Two Worlds" stuff is driving me up the wall to no end. I might just stick to the comic books' canon if nothing is actually ever explained, haha.

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41 minutes ago, BlossomHaze said:

See, I don't necessarily mind when there are humans in the Sonic world, but... this entire "Two Worlds" stuff is incredibly confusing to me  as a long-time fan and difficult to understand if we're talking about characters like Shadow, who has a very large involvement with humans in his past. Now, if it were different canons (not saying this is a good idea either), then maaaybe, but just maybe I could get behind it.

And as a fan creator myself who loves to delve into lore to make my OCs more accurate to the series' canon, this "Two Worlds" stuff is driving me up the wall to no end. I might just stick to the comic books' canon if nothing is actually ever explained, haha.

Shadow's backstory being based on Earth at least can be explained due to him being a creation of Gerald Robotnik - reading between the lines, it seems the professor carried out research in both worlds and used hedgehog DNA from Sonic's world as a template for his ultimate lifeform.

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8 minutes ago, Nestor said:

Shadow's backstory being based on Earth at least can be explained due to him being a creation of Gerald Robotnik - reading between the lines, it seems the professor carried out research in both worlds and used hedgehog DNA from Sonic's world as a template for his ultimate lifeform.

There's still issues with... why he even did that in the first place. But that's not even the important shadow issue. 

Isn't he supposed to be protecting earth, that's the question that will be asked every time he's in animal land.

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It's stupid and I hate it.

This farce of a story at least had some cohesion when the classic and modern games took place in a singular timeline, and the planet it all happened on was one singular place.

Both of these retcons have completely wrecked Sonic's story beyond repair, to the point that I just don't care about the convoluted world(s) of this series anymore.

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Answer topic question:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Longer answer:

It's just a dumb idea that was clearly put in place to poorly appease people who hate the idea of Sonic characters and humans mingling, but just ends up butchering the lore of the series and pissing more people off.

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3 hours ago, Gotta Go Rational said:

I don't think it is something that necessarily needs to be acknowledged. But having read the English translations of Iizuka's statements regarding two worlds, they are, in my mind, too vague to know that he literally meant some games take place in different dimensions/planets, in a series that has never acknowledged it in any official media to my knowledge. The word "world" can be used in many different ways, and we're getting that via translation. I'm not disagreeing, I'm simply saying if one were looking for reconciliation between Iizuka's translated explanation and the games in as clean a way as possible, that could be it.

Of course if you don't want him to be saying what he's saying he won't be saying what he's saying. 2/3 of the people,  who speak English, we've heard talk about it say literal worlds.

 

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48 minutes ago, Sean said:

One world, one continuity, and that's what I'm sticking with until a single official game actually acknowledges anything to the contrary rather than it being outside statements.

Well, for continuity: "You're that Sonic from another dimension"

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