How is Shadow viewed as a villain?

[SonicAKG]

We all know Shadow debuted as a villain. I was wondering how do people feel as him during this role. I'm referring to Adventure 02 only as in Shadow the Hedgehog the game, we don't know which of his actions as a villain really count given the incoherent story. Was he a good villain who brought a darker side to the Sonic narrative and something new as he was an evil counterpart who unlike Metal Sonic(before Sonic Heroes) had his own goals, and a cocky, but serious personality which made him a good foil to Sonic? Or was already overtly edgy with a backstory too dark for the franchise and a cliche anti-hero personality? Was his tenure as a villain something worth exploring as Sonic Forces hinted it WAS going to do and fondly remembered part of his character like Vegeta? Or was it something that should be forgotten and not touched upon which Sonic Forces ended up doing?

[Shadowlax]

Unless I missed something I don't remember forces hinting it was going to do anything? Unless I missed something in the original script, what happened was narrative deception rather than hinting at anything

[Diogenes]

I don't find him to be all that compelling as the big world-threatening villain because his motivation is just kinda...dumb. Like okay yeah your surrogate sister was killed by the government and that sucks hardcore and all, but trying to wipe out all of humanity because of that is kiiiiind of an overreaction. And then it turns out all that villainy was basically just brainwashing and Gerald is the real villain behind everything so he was really just a pawn the whole time.

SA2 Shadow is more interesting to me as an antagonist to Sonic specifically. He's not the first doppelganger in the series, but Metal's typically the cold, unfeeling robot type, while Shadow's able to make things more personal and heated. He (inadvertently) frames Sonic, interrupts his escape, and then manages to outspeed him essentially by cheating. That gives Sonic a personal goal in the story rather than simply trying to save the world; he wants to catch up with that smug jackass, kick his teeth in, clear his own name, and prove himself to truly be the fastest thing alive. And just as they're matched in abilities, Shadow's got his own ego to protect; he's the Ultimate Life Form, and he doesn't want to accept that this random guy can keep up with him (and arguably surpass him towards the end). They're both fighting not just for their larger goals but to defend their own identities, what they see as their place in the world.

[DabigRG]

Look. At. Him.

 

...Oh wait, you mean in terms of how well-received that role was.

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

Unless I missed something I don't remember forces hinting it was going to do anything? Unless I missed something in the original script, what happened was narrative deception rather than hinting at anything

I think it was either Iuzuka or another director who said that Shadow was fighting for the Eggman Empire for his own reasons.

[Shadowlax]

5 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Look. At. Him.

I think it was either Iuzuka or another director who said that Shadow was fighting for the Eggman Empire for his own reasons.

Video games are developed for a very long time. 

You don't think iiazuka know the plot of the game. He was just messing with his, It wasn't a hint it was deception. That shadow was fighting for his own reasons, he wasn't the real shadow. If this was a movie trailer, sometimes they will put in scenes that are strait out lies. Deceiving the audience for later surprise is a common practice 

[DabigRG]

1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

 That shadow was fighting for his own reasons, he wasn't the real shadow. Deceiving the audience for later surprise is a common practice 

Ya don't say.

1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

You don't think iiazuka know the plot of the game. 

What makes you say that?

[Shadowlax]

Just now, DabigRG said:

What makes you say that?

Is this a troll? Seriously sarcasm is hard to decipher in the form of forum texts. So please if it is , tell me. 

But uh... he's the head of sonic team...I figure he would know... whats going on under his watch

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

Is this a troll? Seriously sarcasm is hard to decipher in the form of forum texts. So please if it is , tell me. 

But uh... he's the head of sonic team...I figure he would know... whats going on under his watch

Oh, I'm sorry, I misread that as "I don't think Iuzuka knew what the plot of the game was."

[A person, that exists]

Shadow, eh?

Honestly, as a "One-hit-wonder" character, he kinda worked. Not because he was all that memorable, just that the other "Wonders" that came before and afterwards (Bean, Bark, Dark Gaia, The Deadly Six) were awful in almost every way. However, I should give it to them: their concepts never felt dated, while Shadow was a product of the 2000-s desperately wanting to give EVERYONE an edgy rival. The thing is, he was a RIVAL, manipulated into doing the dirty work for Eggman, just like  (Another terrible Sonic character btw) was back in the day. So, really, he felt less like a villain, and more like a person who never really questioned his motives., because "MARIA!11!" or something.

So, yeah, Shadow's as good at being a villain as he's good at being a good character.

[Skull Leader]

I don't think Shadow can work as a villain since for starters, his character would have to be changed, essentially betraying what he is supposed to do.

Like Diogenes said, Shadow works best as an antagonist: a character who like Sonic wants to keep the world safe, but who unlike Sonic, is willing to take much more drastic (if not extremist) means to get the job done and who is not willing to risk the safety of the world over idealisms. This alone should be enough for him and Sonic to clash in situations where each character believes to be doing what is right and not let the other stand in their way.

[DabigRG]

10 hours ago, A person, that exists said:

Not because he was all that memorable, just that the other "Wonders" that came before and afterwards (Bean, Bark, Dark Gaia, The Deadly Six) were awful in almost every way.

Uh, you do realize that Bean and Bark were playable characters in a Arcade Fighting Game, right? As in any characterization was came through how they acted and fought, while motivation and/or backstory was left in the air alongside almost everyone else.

[Skull Leader]

11 hours ago, A person, that exists said:

The thing is, he was a RIVAL, manipulated into doing the dirty work for Eggman, just like  (Another terrible Sonic character btw) was back in the day. So, really, he felt less like a villain, and more like a person who never really questioned his motives., because "MARIA!11!" or something.

So, yeah, Shadow's as good at being a villain as he's good at being a good character.

Actually, it was Shadow who manipulated Eggman under the promise of granting him the wish of conquering the world. However, Shadow was acting all along with a different agenda, which was to carry Dr. Gerald's plan to exact revenge on humanity.

Though I do feel you are right about how Shadow did stuff without much thought from his part, though at the very least he wasn't as insulting as Silver, who took the advise from a guy who looked like Satan. The only thing that really separates him from someone like Metal is the ego/identity stuff and that unlike the robot, he could eventually learn to think for himself, which is a double edge sword as it kept him from being further manipulated like when in 06 he essentially told Mephiles to f*** off, but also can make him a bit stubborn and prone to clash with characters like Sonic over the way they each want to solve the same exact problem.

[Dash Speed]

I'm worried that Shadow is barely viewed as a iconic foundation of the franchise and more a niche fangirl magnet that got lucky he was dark and mysterious enough he could last this long. When you think about, the series is determined to push Shadow out of being as defined as Tails, Eggman and Knuckles in associating with the good side of Sonic and the fundamental nature of it's essence. The franchise has gone on long enough to make sure Sonic is still Sonic and his legacy is untarnished from the modern elements the new characters bring with them. Hell lets talk about Shadow, Shadow still more or less has no re-usability as a sonic main or a status quo figure, he's put out of the spotlight and used occasionally to bring a optional sonic skin for harmless reasons that show Sega is not ashamed to make players not play just sonic. But he's still a blank space in a 20 year old franchise where anyone puts the sonic essentials to only Sonic, Tails and Eggman. Knuckles is a part of being a figurehead for the quintessential perfect sonic game, so he's more icon for the franchise at it's best and it's more memorable. Shadow hasn't escaped the "He should have stayed dead" curse, he is viewed as the black sheep for Sonic and pretty much stayed out the vision of making Sonic gameplay evolved when it was only Sonic we played as, thus he was demoted to sonic npc status, and before you say so has Tails, Knuckles and Amy aren't needed either, those characters provided more involvement with the main lead than Shadow does, providing more importance in having the most focus with Sonic and thusly more symbolic important to what the sonic franchise needs, Knuckles somehow is still Sonic's iconic rival in a sense, he's established as main character of the main plot devices Sonic uses, the chaos emeralds, hell Rouge herself went solo in the anime and early sonic archie cannon without shadow despite being less popular than him, all because she was written more heavily around the core four as one of the info dumps with being GUN's top agent and the thief, she basically worked around Knuckles(alongside the human part of sonic lore) as a potential love interest and side character to build the world of humans to sonic animal characters, thats how much Shadow is less important, he's like Metal Sonic with a more tragic theme, but he's not a foundation or a stand alone symbol of being necessary to Sonic's character, Eggman's character or the world of Sonic other than being a GUN agent or GUN being anywhere as important itself like the chaos emeralds are to tell the story.

 

Same with Blaze and Silver, the don't need to be with tied to Sonic's core focus in a story since Sonic is the hero that uses his sidekick(Tails) to stop the badguy(Eggman), with his friendly rival that fights or helps him with the same emeralds he safekeeps(Knuckles), with the added help and morale boost of his love interest(Amy). This is what Sonic as a main story runs on for the majority of casual gamers, and anything else is one hit filler sadly. I guess you can add Cream and Rouge, since they are not important enough to change the foundation despite coming from different sonic games that breaks the norm of the traditional sonic story and game play. But also they serve as support characters to the essential cast and build relationships with them outside their mandatory roles in their original games especially to Shadow/Vanilla/Blaze respectively. Shadow has no big importance in a Traditional Sonic story and style, he's a another theme and change from the games intentionally, which alienates him as a character, who's controversial presentation in all the games he's been important in gameplay and story wise, makes him inconvenient to use like the core fore and eggman, Sega trashes his chances to earn his place as a solid embodiment of Sonic's more agressive rival all the time, and can't come up with a classic template for his characterization for even the main games he star or play a main role in with Sonic. He's a different guy in every game/continuity he's in, and Sega needs to fix this about him because SA2 is what he's universally loved in by people who don't care about the sonic fandom, he is less of an impact to be an iconic face to people who aren't fangirls and sonic/shadow shippers. 

Rouge for example, is more a series fundamental element than him IMO with the core four since she's more friendly unlike Shadow is, not only is she the one of the official sex symbol for furrys(I know gross), she's more used more than Shadow with the core four with people who like Knuckles over Shadow, and Knuckles being Sonic's "both friend and rival" automatically gets top billing over Shadow, as the character Sonic himself is befriended along with Tails. Sonic's having a iconic set of friends in his own series all get the top billing over Shadow anyday, and that includes said friends support characters that are used for themselves when Sonic's not the focus, like Amy and Cream and Knuckles and Rouge. Tails gets Sonic and only Sonic as his supporting and supporter role. Who does Shadow get outside of Rouge and Omega(who barely even shows up with the two), Rouge has more versatility with her being adaptable with her roles to Shadow, Knuckles and even Eggman. Shadow is only adaptable to Sonic who he doesn't have a strong relationship with thus pushing his relevance back in a series always about Sonic.

[Shadowlax]