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Sonic Forces Final DLC - What is it?


Red Hot Jack

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2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

It does not.

It could potentially be linked to upcoming Forces DLC if they wanted to and if any exists in the first place, but there's nothing in Plus itself that implies any further connection with Forces.

I dunno.

The fact that 

Spoiler

Robotnik gets the same ending as Classic Sonic definitely means something. 

 

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It really doesn't need to.

This is like Generations' post-credits scene all over again. Sometimes a gag is just a gag.

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2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It really doesn't need to.

This is like Generations' post-credits scene all over again. Sometimes a gag is just a gag.

The difference is that Sonic Forces has new content added to it's SteamDB page, which, if it was a thing that was scrapped, wouldn't be there. (See: the Episode Infinite thing found in the archives). Sonic Generations didn't have that luxury and didn't look like it was setting up anything as Mania did.

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Even if Forces gets more DLC (which there's still only the slimmest evidence of in the first place), there's no reason to assume what happens in Plus has anything to do with it. It's not confirmed, it's not implied, and it doesn't have to mean anything.

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8 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Even if Forces gets more DLC (which there's still only the slimmest evidence of in the first place), there's no reason to assume what happens in Plus has anything to do with it. It's not confirmed, it's not implied, and it doesn't have to mean anything.

Is there any reason to completely dismiss what happens in Plus and dismiss the new entry under Forces on SteamDB?

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27 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It really doesn't need to.

This is like Generations' post-credits scene all over again. Sometimes a gag is just a gag.

Colors’s post-credits scene is acknowledged in Generations. And after the response to Lost World not acknowledging Generations I don’t think they’ll do anything like that again. After all, there was a door in Generations they must have used to exit the premises.

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With regards to that ending: it could mean something, it could not. It can just as easily be

Spoiler

another case of "look how another one of Eggman's schemes blows up in his face" kind of thing.

 

Who knows, though. With SDCC around the corner, they could throw a sudden surprise at us and that would be great. Just best people keep their expectations in check. Especially where Forces is concerned.

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1 minute ago, DreamSaturn said:

Is there any reason to completely dismiss what happens in Plus

Yeah, because jokes exist.

Spoiler

How many games have ended with Eggman being involved in some kind of humiliating slapstick? Perfect Chaos shoots him down and he gets launched into the distance like Team Rocket. The Chaotix chase him for payment in Heroes. Knuckles chases him at the end of ShtH. Unleashed had Dark Gaia flick him away and then he hurts himself as proto-Orbot taunts him. Colors had him get sucked into the black hole and lost in space. Generations had both Eggmen stuck in the void. Lost World had him fall from Lost Hex and burn off half his mustache. It's the same thing here; he tries to sneak off after being defeated but the heroes bop him as they escape and he gets sucked into a portal along with the rest of his base. It's a gag, that's all.

1 minute ago, DreamSaturn said:

and dismiss the new entry under Forces on SteamDB?

I don't know enough about how these things are handled to say that it's definitely not anything, but it hardly seems like a solid confirmation, and regardless as I said before, even if Forces gets more DLC, there is no evidence that it is in any way connected to Mania.

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1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

I don't know enough about how these things are handled to say that it's definitely not anything, but it hardly seems like a solid confirmation, and regardless as I said before, even if Forces gets more DLC, there is no evidence that it is in any way connected to Mania.

I'm confident that if it wasn't meant to be a thing, it would've been removed from the SteamDB page. So while yes, there is no substantial evidence that this is absolutely, 100% where they're going with this, they might be, and I'd even go so far as to say it probably is. Since, conversely, there's no evidence that this isn't connected to Mania.

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4 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

I'm confident that if it wasn't meant to be a thing, it would've been removed from the SteamDB page. So while yes, there is no substantial evidence that this is absolutely, 100% where they're going with this, they might be, and I'd even go so far as to say it probably is. Since, conversely, there's no evidence that this isn't connected to Mania.

There are no words in the English language that can express the mental journey this post has put me through, so I guess I have to leave the discussion at this: you are certainly free to believe whatever you choose.

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Honestly, after seeing what Aaron said on the stream, that was the last nail in the coffin for me on the DLC. While Aaron said "to the best of his knowledge", he has been pretty much in the know about everything with these games recently. 

Eggman's ending was essentially what I view as the character's karma. It was very satisfying to see him get his just desserts in such an ironic fashion, especially after it seemed as though he was going to escape. I would hate for Forces to mess with that and remind players why it is such a disappointment, especially when compared to Sonic Mania. It makes no sense given its reception to bring the game back from the dead, especially when Aaron himself does not believe any further DLC will release.

Eggman is trapped in some void, Sonic and friends are celebrating, and Forces is left as it is: an unpolished game that had heaps of potential, but was wasted on half developed ideas and resources and pales in comparison to Sonic Mania and now Sonic Mania Plus. Again, I actually enjoyed Sonic Forces, but it was a lazy and unpolished game that tried to piggyback off the success of Mania with a storyline connection.

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9 minutes ago, does it really matter said:

Honestly, after seeing what Aaron said on the stream, that was the last nail in the coffin for me on the DLC. While Aaron said "to the best of his knowledge", he has been pretty much in the know about everything with these games recently. 

Eggman's ending was essentially what I view as the character's karma. It was very satisfying to see him get his just desserts in such an ironic fashion, especially after it seemed as though he was going to escape. I would hate for Forces to mess with that and remind players why it is such a disappointment, especially when compared to Sonic Mania. It makes no sense given its reception to bring the game back from the dead of that game while Aaron himself does not believe DLC will release.

Eggman is trapped in some void, Sonic and friends are celebrating, and Forces is left as it is: an unpolished game that had heaps of potential, but was wasted on half developed ideas and resources and pales in comparison to Sonic Mania and now Sonic Mania Plus. Again, I actually enjoyed Sonic Forces, but it was a lazy and unpolished game that tried to piggyback off the success of Mania with a storyline connection.

Aaron doesn’t know everything Izuka did... 

 

Or maybe he is simply lying to save anything important for later.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Aaron doesn’t know everything Izuka did... 

 

 

No offense, but that means nothing to me. Aaron is one of Sega's best and most essential employees, especially when spreading news and pumping the crowd up. With all the crap he has to deal with, I hope they treat him well. Cutting him out of the loop would be a truly terrible decision.....so hey perhaps it is true then.

Oh, as for the concept of him lying: why bother addressing the question at all then? It's not like a live interview. On a stream, he can pick and choose the questions to answer and, to the best of my knowledge, lying is not how Aaron operates. Again, it's why people like the guy so much and why he's one of the best Sega has. 

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56 minutes ago, does it really matter said:

No offense, but that means nothing to me. Aaron is one of Sega's best and most essential employees, especially when spreading news and pumping the crowd up. With all the crap he has to deal with, I hope they treat him well. Cutting him out of the loop would be a truly terrible decision.....so hey perhaps it is true then.

Oh, as for the concept of him lying: why bother addressing the question at all then? It's not like a live interview. On a stream, he can pick and choose the questions to answer and, to the best of my knowledge, lying is not how Aaron operates. Again, it's why people like the guy so much and why he's one of the best Sega has. 

Its also possible that he's bound by an NDA or not allowed to talk about anything unannounced-- both of which are pretty standard at tech companies.

For example, look at an earlier statement: "Sumo Digital is not working on an ASRT game at this moment." Many took this to be a deconfirmation that Sumo was working on a racing game for Sega. But the reality was that Sumo was actually working on TSR, another racing game. He didn't lie when he said Sumo wasn't working on an ASRT title because it wasn't, but he didn't purposefully shut down speculations regarding another racing game relating to Sega in some way. He most probably wouldn't have been allowed to reveal TSR or even hint at it beyond not totally shutting down the idea of Sumo making a racing game at that point.

Its possible, and I would argue probable, that something similar is going on with this DLC. I believe that Aaron isn't lying when he says he doesn't know anything about this DLC being worked on. But note that it isn't a direct deconfirmation-- just because he doesn't know anything about it doesn't mean that its not planned. Its possible that he's actually not allowed to talk about it yet, or more likely simply hasn't been given details beyond "There's this Steam database leak that's creating all kinds of rumors that people will ask you about. You can acknowledge the rumors if you think that's what's best, but we're not ready to announce or describe this yet, so don't."

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I'm not saying a DLC won't come out, because you never know, but I just find it unnecessary and simply do not see enough evidence beyond others hyping it up. It could go one way or another, but people are already using terms like "confirmed", which is not true at all at this point. I really hope there is no DLC, but we'll see soon one way or another.

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1 hour ago, does it really matter said:

No offense, but that means nothing to me. Aaron is one of Sega's best and most essential employees, especially when spreading news and pumping the crowd up. With all the crap he has to deal with, I hope they treat him well. Cutting him out of the loop would be a truly terrible decision.....so hey perhaps it is true then.

Oh, as for the concept of him lying: why bother addressing the question at all then? It's not like a live interview. On a stream, he can pick and choose the questions to answer and, to the best of my knowledge, lying is not how Aaron operates. Again, it's why people like the guy so much and why he's one of the best Sega has. 

Aaron could legitimately not know what the surprise announcement is. And I reiterate: if that update on Forces' SteamDB page was really nothing at all, it would've been removed by now, or just not posted at all. The whole deal with Forces so far is that they're basically doing a darker, grittier version of Sonic Generations so this doesn't seem farfetched at all to me. Especially when even '06 got DLC despite being the most reviled title to ever come out in this franchise. 

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On 7/13/2018 at 12:14 AM, DreamSaturn said:

Aaron could legitimately not know what the surprise announcement is. And I reiterate: if that update on Forces' SteamDB page was really nothing at all, it would've been removed by now, or just not posted at all. The whole deal with Forces so far is that they're basically doing a darker, grittier version of Sonic Generations so this doesn't seem farfetched at all to me. Especially when even '06 got DLC despite being the most reviled title to ever come out in this franchise. 

Again, I could agree that Aaron truly doesn't know and the DLC could perhaps be true. My point is it could go either way at this point and even if there is DLC, it could be something very minor. I have a wait and see attitude. When others say "fact" or "confirmation",  that's simply not true yet.

I understand that this all started with "Stream DB Unknown App" on the Sonic Forces steam page, but quite a few games have that as well that never materialized, such as 2015's Grand Theft Auto V and they all updated the same day (June 20th). Here is the link: https://steamdb.info/app/271590/dlc/. There are many, many more and, again, all updated the same day.

It also seems this has been up for the Sonic Forces page for quite sometime and didn't just pop up recently (only noticed), so it very well may have been such a minor update that it didn't warrant a description, as plenty of other games release such updates in the same fashion.

Here's my scenario: This update has been on the Sonic Forces page for months, largely unnoticed. Someone on this forum notices and posts about it. Not long after (one day), Youtube videos start popping up and hype catches on. The Sonic Mania Plus ending leaks and suddenly people see it as a "confirmation", largely because they feel that Steam DB can't be a coincidence. I think it was a perfect storm of a non-descriptive, minor update being noticed at the same time as Sonic Mania Plus and now, we have all this news of something that very well might not happen.

Again, it could happen, but I just find all the evidence is very flimsy.

That's all I have to say on this topic. Let's see what happens.

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On 7/9/2018 at 12:22 AM, shdowhunt60 said:

???

It has nothing to do with gameplay recordings, it runs a check to Denuvo's own servers to make sure that the copy of the game that you're playing is yours. The problem is, is that what is going to happen with these games when these servers are no longer online? This is a thing that's happened to games in the past, there are games that are literally not playable any more because of this crap.

Never mind that the attitude behind DRM is shitty to begin with, it only inconveniences people that bought legit copies of the game and not the pirates that circumvent it, Denuvo is WILDLY inefficient in how it goes about doing this. If you want a fine example of this:

https://torrentfreak.com/latest-denuvo-anti-piracy-protection-falls-cracker-voksi-on-fire-180706/

“The game executable is 128MB big, of which just 5-6MB is the real game code. The rest of it is Denuvo. It’s the most bloated Denuvo I’ve ever seen.”

I mean, good fucking god, this is how ridiculous this shit is. Game code is being piled by layers upon layers of ridiculous convoluted encryption, and while I don't think the rumors of performance hits have ever been substantiated, I do find it mighty suspicious that when Doom 2016 removed its version of Denuvo that all of a sudden the game loads far quicker. Even a game as small and technically simple as Sonic Mania has noticeable pauses in between acts as the game, because it takes time to actually decrypt all that nonsense.

Oh, THAT shit! 

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16 hours ago, DreamSaturn said:
16 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Even if Forces gets more DLC (which there's still only the slimmest evidence of in the first place), there's no reason to assume what happens in Plus has anything to do with it. It's not confirmed, it's not implied, and it doesn't have to mean anything.

Is there any reason to completely dismiss what happens in Plus and dismiss the new entry under Forces on SteamDB?

There´s no reason to assume Sonic Mania Plus has anything to do with Sonic Forces DLC.

There was no reason to assume Sonic Mania has anything with Sonic Forces. 

But it did... so... at my side the percentage of the former thing to happen is 99,9%.

And if Mania Adventures are pseudo-canon, then IDW comics may be pseudo-canon as well.

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Maybe Eggman's Mania plus ending is tied into Mania adventures 5th cartoon.
I doubt it, it's too complicated. But it's possible I guess...
But it's most likely just a joke we're not supposed to think about.

Never the less, still a joke with consequences. My parody brain can't help but think there's oppurtunities to be had with Classic Eggman showing up post Forces ending.
But then again, Sonic Forces is the king of wasted oppurtunities. The Forces team will probably have as much inspiration on what to do with Classic Eggman as they did with regular Eggman. So whether the special ending is a dead-end or a genuine lead-in to a hypothetical Forces plus, it'll lead to the same result: nothing.

I'm honestly amused how Sonic Forces gets so many prequel comics and sequel comics and tie- ins with Mania, all this expanded universe media circus around a story that's such a big load of nothing.


 

2 hours ago, superman43 said:

And if Mania Adventures are pseudo-canon, then IDW comics may be pseudo-canon as well.

Pfft, at this point I consider the entire Sonic series to be pseudo-Canon in limbo.
It just comes across as a clueless comittee desperatly dangling shiny objects in front of the audience instead of any kind of vision or genuine world they're trying to present.

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1 hour ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

It just comes across as a clueless comittee desperatly dangling shiny objects in front of the audience instead of any kind of vision or genuine world they're trying to present.

No creativity, no desire create a truly satisfying experience, or growing in any meaningful fashion. "Just 2D! Checkerboards! Solo Sonic! Classic Sonic! COMEDY! Do you love us yet? Huh? Huh? Will you love please love us again?" That's got to be the most accurate and concise summation of 2010's Sonic I've ever heard.  I'm totally stealing it.

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6 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

No creativity, no desire create a truly satisfying experience, or growing in any meaningful fashion. "Just 2D! Checkerboards! Solo Sonic! Classic Sonic! COMEDY! Do you love us yet? Huh? Huh? Will you love please love us again?" That's got to be the most accurate and concise summation of 2010's Sonic I've ever heard.  I'm totally stealing it.

“You didn’t like that? Shadow! Edge! Meaningless continuity references! Side games by other devs! Memes! Memes! Lots of memes! We suck!”

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I'm honestly surprised this thread's still going. I think it's pretty clear at this point that nothing's been announced, and it's only a few months till the game has been out for a year. There's a higher chance of an asbestos dog catching a paper cat in hell than SEGA releasing any more DLC for this thing, let alone it being the magical DLC that somehow fixes everything.

I'm willing to chalk this one up to incompetency. This is the same people who conveniently forgot to list that Mania has Denuvo till after the game was released. I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't other things they screwed up on, including putting unnecessary directories and listings.

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1 hour ago, shdowhunt60 said:

I'm honestly surprised this thread's still going. I think it's pretty clear at this point that nothing's been announced, and it's only a few months till the game has been out for a year. There's a higher chance of an asbestos dog catching a paper cat in hell than SEGA releasing any more DLC for this thing, let alone it being the magical DLC that somehow fixes everything.

I'm willing to chalk this one up to incompetency. This is the same people who conveniently forgot to list that Mania has Denuvo till after the game was released. I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't other things they screwed up on, including putting unnecessary directories and listings.

Ah, but do you think this way because you don't think its likely or because you simply don't want it?

Its not unprecedented thus far for Forces to get an unannounced update or promotion, so the fact the game has been out close to a year doesn't disprove the notion of this DLC being legitimate. Its also not unprecedented for games that are miles worse than Forces ever was, like 06 and Rise of Lyric, to get DLC and updates after release. For something supposedly impossible, the asbestos dog sure seems to have already caught the paper cat in hell several times already.

And here we go with the black and white thinking again. Nobody who thinks this DLC is legitimately coming out at this point is expecting a magical panacea out of this. What's realistic to expect is that this will be an effort to do better with the use of Classic characters (key word being "effort"), maybe the restoration or use of a few dummied out sections, reduced stiffness of control for at least Classic Sonic, and most probably some expansions for the Avatar. There's more of course that are more possible to fix than people here give credit for, but I think you get the point.

I think Denovu was forgotten in Mania's listings because it was literally forced into the game last minute. This is just speculation, but if the person who updated the game's description had primarily been communicating with Headcannon, which neither approved nor wanted Denovu, for information then I could see how it would be missed without just resorting to the incompetency explanation. As for Forces itself, the Steam Database has not shown any sign of unnecessary directories and listings thus far and so claims of such are not currently founded-- one DLC that we know was canned (Episode Infinite) was indeed removed and archived, and this mysterious DLC was actually added several months after release. Its hard not to see this as purposeful with what we know right now.

And even if it was unnecessary, that isn't the same as it being a sign of incompetency or a mistake. Dummied out content happens literally all the time and it gets much much weirder than unnecessary directories and listings-- look at this video where a guy found 10(!) static Luigis just kind of existing in one spot underneath a minigame section in Paper Mario. Dummied out content is generally pretty neutral unless there's something weird about them worth noting, and even those weirdnesses seldom point toward incompetence but rather hint towards how the game works (like the aforementioned gang of underground Luigis in Paper Mario) and/or what ideas were considered at some point (like Episode Infinite in Sonic Forces and perhaps this DLC too if it has indeed been cancelled).

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17 minutes ago, Mad Convoy said:

Its not unprecedented thus far for Forces to get an unannounced update or promotion, so the fact the game has been out close to a year doesn't disprove the notion of this DLC being legitimate. Its also not unprecedented for games that are miles worse than Forces ever was, like 06 and Rise of Lyric, to get DLC and updates after release. For something supposedly impossible, the asbestos dog sure seems to have already caught the paper cat in hell several times already.

Actually I think it does, Sonic Force's poor promotion isn't the same thing as there being no promotion at all. If there was something that was even the slightest bit noteworthy, SEGA would have said something. Even if it's something that's barely heard at all.

And yeah, it's seriously been almost a year, and we've heard nothing. All the DLC that's gonna come out has been out for some time.

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