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Sonic Mania Plus: Instruction Manual


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2 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Heh, the story blurb confirms Encore does indeed take place right after Forces. I notice the blurb is also trying to navigate around Chaotix's canonicity and not address it. 

 

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Too bad for it the art book confirms Chaotix didn't happen, then.

 

Yet :)

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5 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Heh, the story blurb confirms Encore does indeed take place right after Forces. I notice the blurb is also trying to navigate around Chaotix's canonicity and not address it. 

 

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Too bad for it the art book confirms Chaotix didn't happen, then.

 

Sonic not meeting Mighty on the island just means the bad ending is canon. Obviously Knuckles and the Chaotix got the whole place burned to ashes, like what did you expect?

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8 hours ago, LukA8 said:

Sonic not meeting Mighty on the island just means the bad ending is canon. Obviously Knuckles and the Chaotix got the whole place burned to ashes, like what did you expect?

Dunno if you're joking but in case you're not...if the bad ending was canon, Knuckles, the Chaotix, Mighty etc would have been burnt with the island and Eggman would have the power to rule the world. I think it's a given that's not going to be the canon ending to anything. 

8 hours ago, Adamis said:

Or Chaotix happens after Mania Plus. Simple. Mighty go to that island afterwards and meets Vector, Espio and Charmy.

I'm not convinced of this. Simply because, if they really did intend to have something for them later, you'd think they save all the Chaotix references for that instead of splurging it out on here where only two of the cast appears (and one of them kinda doesn't count because he's a regular in all classic games anyway). 

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45 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

I'm not convinced of this. Simply because, if they really did intend to have something for them later, you'd think they save all the Chaotix references for that instead of splurging it out on here where only two of the cast appears (and one of them kinda doesn't count because he's a regular in all classic games anyway). 

With a game like Mania, there's no guarantee of another chance to do it. And even then - it's a love letter to the Mega Drive titles. The only one that wouldn't have been represented without the Chaotix nods at this point would be... Chaotix. Even Spinball has the pinball table itself (and arguably the freeing friends mechanic, though smashed into Chaotix). 

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3 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

With a game like Mania, there's no guarantee of another chance to do it. And even then - it's a love letter to the Mega Drive titles. The only one that wouldn't have been represented without the Chaotix nods at this point would be... Chaotix. Even Spinball has the pinball table itself (and arguably the freeing friends mechanic, though smashed into Chaotix). 

I guess that's true...

...but that brings up an entirely different snag. If they truly were working on the mindset of "no guarantee of another chance" and going balls to the walls with the references, it would follow that the omission of the characters (the thing people remember most from Chaotix) was odd if they did have access to that game in terms of canonicity to the classic era, especially when Amy managed to get referenced in the form of the Amy bombs. 

It wouldn't even necessarily be hard to put a cameo for them somewhere. A five second brainstorm made me think 'replace the Fang/Bean/Bark wanted posters with Vector/Espio/Charmy missing posters in Encore mode'. Quick, dirty and a cheeky callback to the Ray and Mighty missing posters. 

In essence, it's a catch 22. 

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5 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Dunno if you're joking but in case you're not...if the bad ending was canon, Knuckles, the Chaotix, Mighty etc would have been burnt with the island and Eggman would have the power to rule the world. I think it's a given that's not going to be the canon ending to anything. 

I'm not convinced of this. Simply because, if they really did intend to have something for them later, you'd think they save all the Chaotix references for that instead of splurging it out on here where only two of the cast appears (and one of them kinda doesn't count because he's a regular in all classic games anyway). 

I was joking, of course. I just find the idea entertaining that this was a job gone horribly wrong, and that's why they won't mention it ever again. Either way, I don't think the good ending screen counts as a meeting between Mighty and Sonic, and can easily be ignored since Sonic had no participation in that game.

13 hours ago, Adamis said:

Or Chaotix happens after Mania Plus. Simple. Mighty go to that island afterwards and meets Vector, Espio and Charmy.

I do think Taxman & Co developed this game with the intention of Chaotix having happened before, as a certain boss of the game gets summoned via Phantom Ruby, just like how Eggman recreated Chaos/Zavok illusions from his memories. However, unlike Amy the trio themselves are not established classic characters at the moment and were likely off-limits, so in case the dev team gets permission to reintroduce them in the future, Knuckles' Chaotix can retroactively be made canon in some form, and otherwise none of the references are specific enough to serve as confirmation. That's why I think there were no cameos for Espio, Charmy and Vector in the game, but the team's solution for it was pretty clever and works both ways.

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With all that's been said about the Classic Chaotix, I assume if they ever do show up in a Mania sequel, they'll be sort or reintroduced like they were in Heroes. Like, obviously taking cues from their classic designs like slim Vector and whatnot, but acting like Knuckles Chaotix never happened and leaving all references to it as sort of easter eggs like with the music or a stage gimmick or something.

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9 hours ago, LukA8 said:

 

I do think Taxman & Co developed this game with the intention of Chaotix having happened before, as a certain boss of the game gets summoned via Phantom Ruby, just like how Eggman recreated Chaos/Zavok illusions from his memories. However, unlike Amy the trio themselves are not established classic characters at the moment and were likely off-limits, so in case the dev team gets permission to reintroduce them in the future, Knuckles' Chaotix can retroactively be made canon in some form, and otherwise none of the references are specific enough to serve as confirmation. That's why I think there were no cameos for Espio, Charmy and Vector in the game, but the team's solution for it was pretty clever and works both ways.

It still has a lot of differences, mainly the colour and the attacks, like it's less powerful in Mania than in Chaotix. Like Mania's form is "version 1" and Chaotix is "version 2", a more defined, controlled transformation.

This is pure speculation, and fanon, at this point.

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Just a cliche-ish idea of mine but if Metal ever was playable in a sequel and if this ever was possible, I would like it go somewhat like this:

You play as Metal at some point of main story and:

a) fight Eggman, defeat him and become the ultime final boss ala Heroes (but now in a classic a Sonic game of course)

b) you get defeated as Metal and Eggman will use Metal's remains for Egg Robot and Metal fusion that will be the final boss.

LOL. This belongs to sequel speculation? 

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On 7/18/2018 at 2:29 AM, BlueFlare said:

In-game intrstuctions would be welcome as well. Not for me, but for first-time Sonic players. 

It really should have been there from the start when this was a digital-only title. You need an easy way to look things up while playing, especially when there's no paper manual as we had back in the day. Taxman Sonic CD did this correctly.

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This discussion on whether Chaotix happened in the Classicverse just shows you that Iizuka and Co.'s attitude (two dimensions, two worlds, characters and/or lands are forced into one or the other) is straightjacketing Sonic.They need to be more like Miyamoto and Co. ("Mario and Co. are actors in many situations") instead of this wishy-washy mess we have now ("It looks like it has a single world with continuity and consequences but it's not really but we pretend it is when it's actually not but still use our worlds with characters like Sonic has some").

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The limited edition Sonic Mania Introduction Manual strongly implies that Sonic Mania takes place not too long after Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

In the Press Garden to Stardust Speedway transition, Eggman uses a machine to locate Metal Sonic on Little Planet, which suggests that Metal Sonic has been stranded there since Sonic CD. As such, Mania would have to be set before other games featuring Metal Sonic, like Chaotix, Sonic the Fighters, Sonic R etc.

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18 hours ago, Pengi said:

The limited edition Sonic Mania Introduction Manual strongly implies that Sonic Mania takes place not too long after Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

In the Press Garden to Stardust Speedway transition, Eggman uses a machine to locate Metal Sonic on Little Planet, which suggests that Metal Sonic has been stranded there since Sonic CD. As such, Mania would have to be set before other games featuring Metal Sonic, like Chaotix, Sonic the Fighters, Sonic R etc.

1) "Some time after saving Angel Island" is basically no clue. You could say it was just after S3&K as well as that many adventures happened in-between.

2) Not necessarily. One could say that A. Eggman could have built second Metal Sonic after defeating the first model, besides he´s called Metal Sonic Kai in Chaotix and that´s not the final boss name. B. Even if he didn´t, you can´t tell when CD happened. 

How I see the timeline: All classic games in the typical order, Sonic CD happening after Sonic 1, Mania happening at the end. Basically, imagine that Mania Plus was for Saturn and 20 years prior.

Don´t forget that Eggman uses Chaotix-alike badniks in Mania. And I don´t think he would firstly construct them in Mania and then in Chaotix.

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3 hours ago, superman43 said:

1) "Some time after saving Angel Island" is basically no clue. You could say it was just after S3&K as well as that many adventures happened in-between.

"It's up to Sonic, Tails, and their newest ally, Knuckles the Echidna, to defeat the Hard-Boiled Heavies, unlock the secrets of the energy source, and stop Dr. Eggman!"

"After reconciling his differences with Knuckles, he's enjoyed some peace and quiet with Tails and their animal friends - until now."

"Following the defeat of Dr. Eggman's previous scheme, Knuckles considers Sonic an ally. When Knuckles spots something amiss on the island, he goes to investigate..."

3 hours ago, superman43 said:

2) Not necessarily. One could say that A. Eggman could have built second Metal Sonic after defeating the first model, besides he´s called Metal Sonic Kai in Chaotix and that´s not the final boss name. B. Even if he didn´t, you can´t tell when CD happened. 

The Metal Sonic in Chaotix has the same "brain" as the original from Sonic CD.

http://info.sonicretro.org/Chaotix_manuals#Metal_Sonic_Kai_.28Rev..29

Metal Sonic Kai (Rev.)

A Sonic-type robot created by Eggman, his main and sub CPU was recovered from his body which was destroyed in the previous confrontation with Sonic. Replaced with a spare body, this time he was reborn by the power of the Dark Ring. With the newly installed Plasner, he is able to shoot a Plasma Pulse Attack from his chest.

In Sonic Mania, Eggman has to locate Metal Sonic on Little Planet/Stardust Speedway, which suggests that he's been there since Sonic CD. If Mania was set after Chaotix and Sonic the Fighters and Sonic R, then Eggman wouldn't need to locate Metal Sonic on Little Planet.

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1 hour ago, Pengi said:

"It's up to Sonic, Tails, and their newest ally, Knuckles the Echidna, to defeat the Hard-Boiled Heavies, unlock the secrets of the energy source, and stop Dr. Eggman!"

"After reconciling his differences with Knuckles, he's enjoyed some peace and quiet with Tails and their animal friends - until now."

"Following the defeat of Dr. Eggman's previous scheme, Knuckles considers Sonic an ally. When Knuckles spots something amiss on the island, he goes to investigate..."

The Metal Sonic in Chaotix has the same "brain" as the original from Sonic CD.

http://info.sonicretro.org/Chaotix_manuals#Metal_Sonic_Kai_.28Rev..29

Metal Sonic Kai (Rev.)

A Sonic-type robot created by Eggman, his main and sub CPU was recovered from his body which was destroyed in the previous confrontation with Sonic. Replaced with a spare body, this time he was reborn by the power of the Dark Ring. With the newly installed Plasner, he is able to shoot a Plasma Pulse Attack from his chest.

In Sonic Mania, Eggman has to locate Metal Sonic on Little Planet/Stardust Speedway, which suggests that he's been there since Sonic CD. If Mania was set after Chaotix and Sonic the Fighters and Sonic R, then Eggman wouldn't need to locate Metal Sonic on Little Planet.

There is one option. It can be canonically after Chaotix, but before Fighters and R. 

1) Sonic and Tails at the end of the Chaotix just mean that they came after what happened. They heard about it, but it´s not mentioned anywhere. Therefore it could pass as technically being in the timeline before Mania.

2) Metal Sonic Kai... hm... Eggman could take the CPUs from the broken Metal Sonic after the race. CD´s ending happened. Chaotix happened. After the powered-up Metal Sonic (the final boss) was defeated, Eggman did the same thing as in CD. When he did locate Metal Sonic in Stardust Speedway, Sonic and co. found him in Press Garden, did the Phantom Ruby thing. Don´t forget that Eggman is in Stardust Speedway too, so... he had some time to repair the original. 

For Modern Sonic Mania didn´t happen, so the timeline is: Chaotix - Fighters - R - ...

For Classic Sonic the timeline is... now: Chaotix - Mania - ... 

 

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Why though?

It's convoluted and unnecessary. Taking the manual at face value, Sonic 3 & Knuckles was the most recent adventure prior to Mania. Taking the in-game story at face value, Metal Sonic has been stranded on Little Planet since Sonic CD.

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13 hours ago, Pengi said:

Why though?

It's convoluted and unnecessary. Taking the manual at face value, Sonic 3 & Knuckles was the most recent adventure prior to Mania. Taking the in-game story at face value, Metal Sonic has been stranded on Little Planet since Sonic CD.

I would say only one thing. If Aaron can say that whatever you choose (SM Adventures or SM Plus) is canon, then you can also choose if everything of Mania is after S3&K or after S3&K and Chaotix. I´m more into the second option mainly because of the Carry and Sentry Bug. Carry having a different cargo type only (=ice), Sentry Bug being a "better version" of Pata-Bata/Hoverby Mk II badnik. Sonic Mania is the game that is referencing the others, so it is more logical to take place after most of those referenced games.

 

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