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Does No One Here Want A SatAM/Archie Sonic Game?

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6 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Because SEGA don't want to. And they own them, so what they say goes. 

Well if it is Sega who owns them and sega are the ones not allowing them into the games or IDW comics I have two words to say to them

 

They are not pretty

 

I mean i can understand the games but not the comics, for petes sake Sega.

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I don't. The world of Satam has never appealed to me with it's oddly named alien planet with one kingdom that somehow rules the whole thing.  The tone is pretentious and tries to take its cast of technicolor woodland critters too seriously at times.  The OCs are no better or worse than what the games currently offer in backstory or personality, although all their roles are either taken by current, more-popular cast members (Sally = Amy/Tails, Rotor = Tails, Bunnie = Knuckles/Omega) or are just unnecessary (Antoine).  Gameplay-wise, Bunnie and maybe Antoine are the only ones I see fitting.  If the gameplay is slow, prodding stealth like that one Sonic-16 demo, count me out.

 

On 8/15/2018 at 9:58 AM, Gumbit said:

Why not giving them Statm season 3  instead ?

If it's done via comic book like X-Files Seasons 10 and 11, I'd say go for it.  I really don't see Sega green-lighting a show with how they're currently trying to run the brand.

 

On 8/13/2018 at 9:00 AM, MadmanRB said:

They were here before Shadow, Knuckles, Blaze, Silver and the others sega has piled up.

This has always been a weak argument for the Freedom Fighters.  Go to the DC Universe and ask Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, or any JSA member if being first means anything.  It doesn't.  Popularity > seniority, especially when the characters in question didn't originate from the source material and instead from a spin-off that barely resembled the original.

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Yeah but Amy Rose is a poor replacement for Sally, she is annoying as hell in the main canon.

At least with Sally its understandable, Sonic in the SatAM Continuity is arrogant and a blow hard and she counters that by being smart and tactical.

Amy Rose would not know what to do with a pocket calculator and Nicole might as well be the monolith from 2001 a space odyssey.

 

This is why I prefer boom Amy.

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2 hours ago, MadmanRB said:

Yeah but Amy Rose is a poor replacement for Sally, she is annoying as hell in the main canon.

At least with Sally its understandable, Sonic in the SatAM Continuity is arrogant and a blow hard and she counters that by being smart and tactical.

Amy Rose would not know what to do with a pocket calculator and Nicole might as well be the monolith from 2001 a space odyssey.

 

This is why I prefer boom Amy.

tumblr_ozis7tmUGq1uymn0oo1_540.gif

She sure as hell wasn't getting any help from Tails

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Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a game based in the canon but with how Sonic's image seems to be chugging along as of late, given the unruly fanbase and the massive amount of people subscribing to the "sonic was never good" bandwagon after doing little more than watching youtube reviewers? I'd say it just wouldn't work PR wise at this point in time. Also like, SEGA will never do it, but...that's besides the point. We pretty much all know that, we can dream.

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3 hours ago, andrewtuell1991 said:

This has always been a weak argument for the Freedom Fighters.

It’s a weak argument in general, yet it’s often the go-to argument outside discussion of the Freedom Fighters, particularly between those from Classic Era and those from Adventure and beyond.

Funny how that gets called out, isn’t it?

That being said...

The OCs are no better or worse than what the games currently offer in backstory or personality, although all their roles are either taken by current, more-popular cast members (Sally = Amy/Tails, Rotor = Tails, Bunnie = Knuckles/Omega) or are just unnecessary (Antoine).  Gameplay-wise, Bunnie and maybe Antoine are the only ones I see fitting.

I never understood how anytime someone says “their roles are taken” or something similar along those lines they never put any effort to think of something new and often show how quick they to get rid of something they don’t care for.

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Its just the typical anti Freedom fighter argument I have heard

"Oh they were not in the games they dont matter!"

"those characters are old!"

Again its called a legacy, too bad modern fans will never understand that.

5 hours ago, Scape said:

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She sure as hell wasn't getting any help from Tails

The ability to turn on a laptop does not indicate any tech savvy.

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Ok? Nobody was claiming she was a tech genius, but you're rushing in here accusing her of being a sub-idiot who can't even use a calculator, a baseless accusation which has been proven false. You don't get to move the goal posts just because you've been proven wrong.

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Yeah but that doesn't necessarily mean that she wasn't shown how to use it from somebody else such as Tails as Amy Rose isn't necessarily known for being Tech savvy. Hey there a lot of people out there who use mobile phones and I wouldn't exactly call them technology experts just because they know how to hit the button on a iPhone to turn it on.

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Yeah but there are a lot of people out there who only know how to turn a computer on, browse the internet and perhaps turn it off and that is it.

This is not any indication of knowledge how the device works or how to use it beyond its base functions.

Now the shot you used is from Forces and perhaps yes in the time allotted Amy has had to adapt to using a computer, fair enough.

It was implied that events took place over several months plenty of time for Amy to get a crash course in computing.

But Forces is not exactly a great resource as all the characters were off in that game thanks to the idiot plot.

I mean Silver was no use :D

Now if Amy does retain this skill good, character development in any form is welcome in this franchise even if its a simple skill such as accessing a file on a computer.

If Amy does become the computer girl I am all for it, sure Tails is the main tech expert in the main canon but that doesnt mean he should be the only brains on the team.

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On 8/29/2018 at 3:10 PM, MadmanRB said:

Yeah but Amy Rose is a poor replacement for Sally, she is annoying as hell in the main canon.

At least with Sally its understandable, Sonic in the SatAM Continuity is arrogant and a blow hard and she counters that by being smart and tactical.

Amy Rose would not know what to do with a pocket calculator and Nicole might as well be the monolith from 2001 a space odyssey.

And Sally "I should've known you'd be selfish" Acorn isn't annoying?  Even at her best, she's a boring nag with no interesting, unique abilities.  Her backstory and family history adds so little to the lore of whatever continuity she's it yet gets so much focus in a desperate attempt to make it look like she's contributing anything.  She's like Chris from Sonic X, hogging so much spotlight yet adding so little.

I wouldn't call Satam Sonic an "arrogant blow-hard", that's more Fleetway Sonic's thing.  Satam Sonic is a manchild with room temperature IQ and Sally acts as a nagging caregiver.

Nicole is pointless.  Exploration is key element in any Sonic story and having some exposition-spewing computer know everything about a new place ruins that fun.

On 8/29/2018 at 6:33 PM, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

I never understood how anytime someone says “their roles are taken” or something similar along those lines they never put any effort to think of something new and often show how quick they to get rid of something they don’t care for.

I don't like putting effort into thinking up stuff for characters I don't like and don't want anywhere near the games.  Even if Sega decided to play Weekend at Bernie's with the FFs, what would they do?  Be thrust into some "team" that is a carbon copy of all the teams hoping one or more don't get cut so Sega can fit them into that stupid Speed, Fly, Power trio they've been forcing since Heroes?

The whole point of the FFs is they're childhood friends of Sonic's working together to topple some tyrant.  If they're introduced as new characters without that backstory, and they most likely would be, they're just more Speed, Fly, Power characters for mobile game rosters.  Do you really thing Modern Sega would do anything more with them?

On 8/29/2018 at 10:19 PM, MadmanRB said:

Its just the typical anti Freedom fighter argument I have heard

"Oh they were not in the games they don't matter!"

"those characters are old!"

Again its called a legacy, too bad modern fans will never understand that.

The legacy of 20 year old cartoon that lasted 2 seasons and a comic with bumpy history of quality control and a copyright problems out the wazoo.  Some legacy.

Thinking about it, why do people always single out the Satam/Archie Freedom Fighters as these characters who absolutely need to be added to the games?  What about the character from outside non-game material?  Why not the Aosth characters (Scratch, Grounder, Coconuts, maybe Katella) who are about as old as the Satam characters and would fit with the games' current tone?  Why about the Fleetway Freedom Fighters (Johnny, Porker, Tekno, and Shortfuse) who knew their place and never overshadowed the game characters?  I think one or two people unironically like the Sonic Underground characters, so why not them?  Keep in mind I don't want these character in the games either, but why do people keep putting the Satam/Archie Freedom Fighters on this pedestal as the gold standard of non-game characters?

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The years of development they had in the comic books of course plus they were a mainstay for so long in non-canon material. But then again that is your point right they were never in the video games they don't matter right I mean who cares right well I fucking do that's for sure somebody has to remember the past well Sega chooses to put underneath the bus Sega can't even be constant with their own characters.

And why should only the Mainstay characters be put on the pedestal just because they're official doesn't mean they are any good.

If it's any characters who need to be replaced it's the one found in the main Sonic Universe and too bad the Sega fans don't see that because everything made by Sega is gold apparently even crap like Sonic 06

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2 hours ago, andrewtuell1991 said:

I don't like putting effort into thinking up stuff for characters I don't like and don't want anywhere near the games.  Even if Sega decided to play Weekend at Bernie's with the FFs, what would they do?  Be thrust into some "team" that is a carbon copy of all the teams hoping one or more don't get cut so Sega can fit them into that stupid Speed, Fly, Power trio they've been forcing since Heroes?

I can see that already. But you’d be able to find plenty of things they can do if you, ya know, put effort into it instead of judging the entire concept as pointless or limited based on personal dislike of them. But whether you refuse to do that, however, that doesn't mean they can’t do anything with them.

And quite frankly, I’d rather Sega be more creative than the rigid Speed, Fly, Power trio they’ve done since Heroes and very nearly lacked the creative agency to make more unique and then quickly ditched after Sonic 06—that’s regardless of whether the FF are even considered.

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The whole point of the FFs is they're childhood friends of Sonic's working together to topple some tyrant.  If they're introduced as new characters without that backstory, and they most likely would be, they're just more Speed, Fly, Power characters for mobile game rosters.  Do you really thing Modern Sega would do anything more with them?

In this case, inspite of how poor and haphazard Sega’s been with the games and the stories, this is one instance I can give them the benefit of the doubt and say yes there’s plenty they can do more with them. That’s not really that hard to do even for them, believe it or not.

The real question is if they’d bother and how well they would be implemented (which going by that track record, probably not as well as I or anyone can expect given their previous ideas on the game cast alone) and on the offchance they decided to do so, it not like they can’t be placed into the setting with new backstories—which is notable and ironic given 1) Sega’s been changing shit up on the fly regardless and 2) most of the FF’s backstory was rewritten anyway in the comics after the reboot to one that fell more inline with that of the games, so it not like it hasn’t been done before, that last one which I’m sure you’ve had at least a passing awareness of.

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Thinking about it, why do people always single out the Satam/Archie Freedom Fighters as these characters who absolutely need to be added to the games?  What about the character from outside non-game material?  Why not the Aosth characters (Scratch, Grounder, Coconuts, maybe Katella) who are about as old as the Satam characters and would fit with the games' current tone?  Why about the Fleetway Freedom Fighters (Johnny, Porker, Tekno, and Shortfuse) who knew their place and never overshadowed the game characters?  I think one or two people unironically like the Sonic Underground characters, so why not them?  Keep in mind I don't want these character in the games either, but why do people keep putting the Satam/Archie Freedom Fighters on thispedestal as the gold standard of non-game characters?

They’re just characters that are popular enough for this idea come to mind. There’s no pedestal—at least not compared to what we see of folks more defensive toward the games.

And quite frankly I doubt the same people you’re calling out for this would have anywhere near the issues towards characters from AoSTH, Fleetway, Underground, and whatnot to the extent as you do in return—especially considering how much of them were in the same comic with the FF or at the very least wouldn’t be a big deal to those singling out the FF so long as they got the characters they wanted. If anything, they’d welcome them along too if you asked, or at least be accepting and tolerable of them.

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Indeed the characters can be reworked.

Even the main ones which honestly is not a bad thing.

I would love for Amy to be more than just a crazed fangirl

Or Knuckles to be more than just a idiot joke

Hell give Shadow a proper backstory this time.

 

But those are sadly not going to happen in the main series.

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1 hour ago, andrewtuell1991 said:

And Sally "I should've known you'd be selfish" Acorn isn't annoying?  Even at her best, she's a boring nag with no interesting, unique abilities.  Her backstory and family history adds so little to the lore of whatever continuity she's it yet gets so much focus in a desperate attempt to make it look like she's contributing anything.  She's like Chris from Sonic X, hogging so much spotlight yet adding so little.

I wouldn't call Satam Sonic an "arrogant blow-hard", that's more Fleetway Sonic's thing.  Satam Sonic is a manchild with room temperature IQ and Sally acts as a nagging caregiver.

I think early on they were created as sort of contrasting equals, one with on-the-fly but overconfident and reckless tactics, and one with strategic but over cautious and persnickety ones, and both with an even ego and bull headedness about it and needing the other (and sometimes the other team mates) to even them out. It was about into the second season that it got simplified into 'Sally careful, Sonic reckless', likely because Sonic was at face value far more obnoxious, showing off during inappropriately serious missions (Sally's pushy holier-than-thou attitude can be just as insufferable, but in a shrewder way) and also, being a male character, it was easier to have him lose arguments and be the butt monkey to his own mistakes compared to her. Also the dynamics of the other Freedom Fighters got practically forgotten (besides Antoine being the shmuck that made him look relatively competent), so Sonic needed Sally as a stronger more one sided foil.

Sally was at least the 'comically serious' early on, because, again, her nagging cautious habits were also depicted as making her persnickety and haughty tempered, but as she got adapted more and more into the voice of reason she just became kinda generically lucid. Even when the comics went back to trying to make her flawed again, the earlier well meaning control freak Sally rarely ever reemerged (not deliberately anyway).

I think a good depiction of Sally could be made, loads of other cartoon characters like Rebecca Cunningham and Twilight Sparkle trade a very similar dynamic, hell some other depictions of the Sonic cast come close to being a fully realised version of her (eg. Sonic Boom Amy or Tails trade being the more meticulous foil for Sonic's daredevil approach, while not always having him the butt monkey of the dynamic) but let's be serious, if the comics couldn't grasp an interesting flawed version of Sally in over two decades, do you trust the games to do it?

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That has more to do with the writer and how willing and able they are to learn from any constructive criticisms they get, tho.

The folks behind the games have often closed their ears and made things worse off, or at least listened and bungled the advice. The Comics, by comparison, at least held an open ear depending on who was in charge and while it had issues, it at least tried not to let the blow up as hard as the games did.

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22 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

That has more to do with the writer and how willing and able they are to learn from any constructive criticisms they get, tho.

The folks behind the games have often closed their ears and made things worse off, or at least listened and bungled the advice. The Comics, by comparison, at least held an open ear depending on who was in charge and while it had issues, it at least tried not to let the blow up as hard as the games did.

At the same time though it also shows that, even if you do try to appease and 'fix' a problem, if you don't understand the concept or what's wrong with them, you'll likely never get them right. Different writers have different tastes.

Trying to apologise for what went wrong with the creative process is a nice gesture, but it's not the whole process to fixing things and making them run in a satisfactory way. If anything many medias only become more cluttered and clunky with their not-very-subtle fan appeal and 'we're so sorry for this-and-that' over actual substance. (The games are actually guilty of that too, remember how heavily they boosted games like Sonic 4 as not being cluttered with tons of superfluous characters anymore and just focusing on Sonic again.....and kept going with that? Compare this to the forced 'LOOK LOOK, SALLY WAS WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING! SHE'S NOT A MARY SUE!' antics in later comics).

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The whole “LOOK LOOK, SALLY WAS WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING! SHE’S NOT A MARY SUE!” Antic is a bit overblown given that was one of the very things trying to be averted as opposed to not acknowledging the problem in making her one to begin with compared to the mess done in the games that still have yet to be addressed since arguably Colors or Generations.

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