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Plasme

A Solo Sonic Game

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I'd really like to see a new Solo Sonic game. Just Sonic and Eggman duking it out.

While Sonic's friends haven't been playable in a mainline 3D Sonic game in over a decade, his friends have always made major contributions to the story and atmosphere in one way or the other.

I'd love to see Sonic really go back to his roots and go for a Sonic 1 vibe. Just Sonic and Eggman fighting over the chaos emeralds. It could have that minimalist dark and menacing atmosphere of Sonic 1. It would be great!

I know a lot of people here would probably hate it, since Sonic's friends haven't been playable in so long, but I'd really like to see it, and I think it would be refreshing for the wider gaming audience too.

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13 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

No. Just no. No more solo Sonic. No more minimalism. No more "roots".

If you look back on the last decade of Sonic games and your biggest complaint is that Tails is too relevant then I'm sorry, but I think the problem may be you.

No! I'm not here for Sonic only that's boring!! I'm here for his universe, his cast, his lore, his friends...

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43 minutes ago, Plasme said:

It could have that minimalist dark and menacing atmosphere of Sonic 1.

The what?

Anyway in terms of gameplay it's obviously fine to have just Sonic playable, but that doesn't give you many options in terms of story. Not that I'm looking for anything particularly deep from a Sonic story, but the conflict between Sonic and Eggman is pretty simple and I doubt they'd try to expand on it much; if you're looking for a narrative beyond "go fight Eggman because reasons" I'm not sure what there is to draw on. And if that is all you're looking for, Mania basically just did that, even if some other characters were along for the ride.

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I thought people would respond in this way.

The relationship between Sonic and Tails is a significant aspect of Sonic Colors and Lost World. To a lesser extent Generations, but it's still at the core of what little plot there is in that game. Of course, in Unleashed it's Sonic and Chip. None of the 3D Sonic titles have ever exclusively focused on Sonic as the protagonist. 

In all of the modern 3D games Sonic's friends and other minor characters have frequently cropped up. In Generations his friends give dialogue after every mission and cheer Sonic in the final boss, in Lost World the Deadly Six were the focus of the plot and in Forces all the friends was back with a vengeance, and Infinite was the focus of the plot. 

There hasn't been a game featuring only Sonic and focusing on his rivalry with Eggman since Sonic 4: Episode 1. And that game was poorly designed in every conceivable way. After that game you are looking at Sonic 1 and Sonic 3D Flickies Island (discounting the Special Stages).

And I disagree that there's nothing to do with a game focusing on Sonic and Eggman, there's a lot of untapped potential, because the rivalry between Sonic and Eggman is never the focus of the plot anymore. It's always Sonic's friendships and the new villain of the week. People were even excited about the prospect in Forces, until Infinite came and ruined it. Sonic 1 does have a dark atmosphere, albeit it's very subtle and kid friendly. The levels progressively become more industrial and builds to the final confrontation with Eggman in the final zone. At the end of the game, you even have the option of blowing his ship up. Sonic 1 also has the darkest boss theme aside from the US Sonic CD OST. While Sonic CD has Amy and Metal Sonic, it's probably the closest to Sonic 1's vision. That game also becomes more industrial, 'darker, and grows to Sonic and Eggman's final fight. And on this topic, Sonic 3D Flickies Island also has this to an extent too. I think by focusing on Sonic and Eggman you can really build up their rivalry and make it something interesting. 

 

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1 minute ago, Mayor D said:

I did.

My point is still right.

The last stage has spooky brains with electricity 

That doesn't mean the whole fucking game is dark and menacing. 

It's dark and menacing for a kid's game and compared to the other classic Sonic games for the reasons I listed, which you haven't even bothered to address. 

This isn't even important to my argument anyway, you are singling out minor, unimportant details.

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I kinda get what you mean. I don't agree with it but I can't say I don't see the appeal. A solo game with no other good guys would probably push Sonic as an ally-less force of good who has to keep his chin up no matter the hardships. Either that or he just simply has no one to bounce his jokes off, forcing him to maintain a serious demeanor aside from throwing wisecracks at Eggman and his badniks. I'm just throwing shit out there and I don't know how well that sort of thing can work in Sonic, but under a good pen I think there might be some potential.

However I don't think the presence or lack of Sonic's friends really contributes much to a game's tone (at least none that currently exist in the 25+ years of the franchise's existence) and I don't think Sonic CD's darker atmosphere, for example, had anything to do with him being the only good guy aside from Amy. It was because we get to see the effects of Eggman's rule in a future where nobody is there to stop him (...........well tbh all it affects is the color palette and music, but hey the games back then were minimalist. you can fill in the blanks yourself with your own imagination).

also regardless of whatever potential there is in there, I don't think anybody who is tired of Sonic being the only playable character would ever want this in any capacity. These people want more (important) characters in the games, not fewer, and also not just different versions of Sonic (the werehog, classic Sonic, hell even the avatar who literally is a non-character and whose abilities are nerfed from Unleashed Sonic and Colors Sonic) and getting rid of EVERYONE is just gonna make people mad.

Myself, I relish in Sonic and friends interacting with each other (in fact a huge problem I have with the series, dating even as far back as Sonic Adventure 1, is that characters don't interact nearly as much as I wish they did) and I would absolutely hate to see everyone go away.

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Misunderstanding the tone of Sonic 1 is important if that's what you're looking for with a future Sonic game. Scrap Brain Zone doesn't make Sonic 1 as a whole dark any more than Big Boo's Haunt makes Mario 64 dark.

Anyway, I can say with no hesitation that a game with just Sonic and Eggman sounds dreadfully boring to me. I like that Sonic stories usually revolve around Sonic bringing about a change in another character and like seeing Sonic's extended cast of personalities play off of one another. If the game was just Sonic and Eggman, you only have one or two cutscene options (assuming there would be cutscene as you're contrasting your idea against Unleashed, Colors, etc). One: Sonic is by himself. See the scenes in Colors when he's making jokes to mute robots. Two: Sonic is with Eggman. See any scene where Sonic and Eggman interact since Adventure.

That's really it. It purposefully limits how much variety can actually be shown between the characters.

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The repeated idea that Sonic cutscenes couldn't be moving or powerful without multiple characters interacting shows a massive lack of imagination and ambition. Look at other games which have no character interaction and how powerful they can be. It's generally agreed that Halo 3 ODST's most moving scenes are when the Rookie is alone and looking at the destruction caused by the Covenant. Other 2D platformers, such as Braid and Limbo, have moving plots and cutscene esque moments without major character dialogue and interaction. I could go on and on.

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Even when Flynn adapted Sonic 1 (THRICE! Sonic X #10, Genesis, Genesis of the Hero. If I'm stubborn I could mention Mega Drive as 'adaption in spirit'), there always were other characters added.

Can't you just play Sonic 4 (ep 1) ? Or Mania and squint your eyes every time Tornado is on the screen?

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The thing is that if you isolate the modern games to sonic only they will become too boring and over too fast.

Look at how fast one can take to complete sonic forces.

 

The only way to make sonic interesting in the modern games is to lose the boost formula.

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1 minute ago, MadmanRB said:

The thing is that if you isolate the modern games to sonic only they will become too boring and over too fast.

Look at how fast one can take to complete sonic forces.

 

The only way to make sonic interesting in the modern games is to lose the boost formula.

I'd love to get rid of Boost, I think it's awful.

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Its become overused, at its base the boost is actually a good concept but it seriously needs to be reworked.

The boost was fine in Unleashed, Colors and Generations as it was a power that was most of the time earned by collecting rings.

Forces ruined it by having boost Wisps every 5 inches giving no breaks and making levels too easy.

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4 hours ago, Plasme said:

I'd really like to see a new Solo Sonic game. Just Sonic and Eggman duking it out.

While Sonic's friends haven't been playable in a mainline 3D Sonic game in over a decade, his friends have always made major contributions to the story and atmosphere in one way or the other.

I'd love to see Sonic really go back to his roots and go for a Sonic 1 vibe. Just Sonic and Eggman fighting over the chaos emeralds. It could have that minimalist dark and menacing atmosphere of Sonic 1. It would be great!

I know a lot of people here would probably hate it, since Sonic's friends haven't been playable in so long, but I'd really like to see it, and I think it would be refreshing for the wider gaming audience too.

I like this. Actually, if I were in charge of the franchise, this would be my vision for the next title. I already think Sonic embracing a fully 3D open world gameplay inspired by the classic level design and physics would bring killer success for the franchise. Sonic needs just one big title that really focuses on establishing him a great 3D platformer, something Mario did but that he has never once done in this franchise. Just for one game, channel the most fundamental essence of what the franchise is. Down to the narrative, the gameplay, the aesthetic. No distractions, no fluff. Just nail down Sonic in an expansive 3D world so that people know what they're getting when they play these games.

 

Then in the following title I would expand by reintroducing key characters and extend the gameplay and lore in places that are appropriate.

 

But yes, I really do think franchise needs this. It's not the only way to move forward but I strongly believe it's the best way. It doesn't matter if some fans whine about it because this vision is about establishing a rock solid platform for the future that will allow other characters to come back but with actually fantastic gameplay and a cohesive narrative.

No more crap reviews from the media. Sonic is back. Among the top sellers of the year. All of that follows.

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I don't think it's too far-fetched to have a solo sonic game at this point with just him and eggman as the villain. NPC's could be a good way to bring life to the world without them being important to the plot (similar to mario odyssey) in some sort of hub in between levels. I think it could be interesting at least if only because it would mean cutting out some of the fluff and focusing on more on the immediate plot which would force sonic team to get more creative with their story telling (like having some background lore, environmental storytelling, etc.) without having to rely on cutscenes and character banter to help carry it.

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I can take or leave Sonic being the only playable character at this point. In the past I was heavy against it because I really do love the extended cast and want to see them in more active roles. That hasn't really changed, I guess, but if we're talking gameplay I think I mind just a bit less if the focus is on Sonic only than I used to be. My only real concern is how it's executed, and I suppose I'm jaded to the fact that some of the most notable 3D games of the last decade have featured Sonic plus a variation of him; Unleashed morphs him into the Werehog with a beat 'em up style gameplay, Generations and Forces include an interpretation of his Genesis counterpart with a sketchy level of faithfulness to how he plays, and Forces also has a nameless, self-insert character who pretty much plays like Sonic with a grappling hook (yes, I'm aware Forces has Shadow DLC, but I'm talking base game).

The worst part about these examples, to me, is that they make the games feel padded due to them being required to actually progress. It's something that the games struggled with even when they included different characters (SA2, I love you, but you are actually the worst offender); as far as 3D games go, I think Black Knight is the only notable exception with how it handled its playable characters (they fit into a singular gameplay style and have a couple unique qualities, and they're also entirely optional).

But assuming they did another true solo Sonic (and we have games like Secret Rings, Colors, and Lost World to know it's a thought that's crossed the minds at Sonic Team, even if those games are far from ideal), I still wouldn't want to see other characters removed from the plot just to focus on Sonic and Eggman. Not saying you can't tell a story that's just those two going at it and have it not be fun, but, well, I like the extended cast so I'd still want to see them in an active role in the story (beyond yapping at you over the radio from their homebase). You can even rotate the existing cast and pick certain characters that fit a particular outline--so many games in the series seem to feature Sonic traveling, it makes sense that he'd run into other characters and they're dragged into whatever is going on because Eggman is there too. I think it'd be refreshing from either the EVERYONE IS HERE approach or only focusing on the classic/most popular characters. Sonic can have some very fun interactions with new and different personalities to bounce off of and working with him in the story without detracting from the intended Sonic-only gameplay. No need to sideline them or get rid of them altogether when you can just find new things for them to do and take breaks from certain ones to give others a chance to shine.

I think it's something that can carry itself for a few games in that way too, so you can keep mixing and matching the cast allowing fans to see their favorite characters in some capacity while people who don't want to play as too many other things get a more focused game that is presumably ideal in its design. And, who knows, if it works out, then there's always the Black Knight option of throwing in the characters for that respective game (or even series) as optional characters to tool around with after the fact.

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I think the Sonic games should stay the way it is with it's current cast of characters and Not limit it to just Sonic and Eggman.

Dropping all the cast members outside of them 2 would be like Sly Cooper without Bentley, Murray or Carmelita and just leaving Sly and Clockwerk. Doing so would just leave the game feeling empty. The same example would apply when doing the same thing to other series like Ratchet & Clank, Jak & Daxter, Crash, Spyro, etc.

Actually speaking of Ratchet & Clank this is a good example right here. In Ratchet Deadlocked, the game mainly focused on Ratchet and Vox with less attention going to Clank (not to mention he doesn't help you like in all the other games). Plus the game was the darkest game out of the entire series, probably because of heavy inspiration from Halo (this was confirmed by Insomniac Games at GDC 2018).

Anyways having Sonic and Eggman alone, after establishing characters in Sonic's universe would completely ruin the series. Plus I really enjoy all the characters we got since the Genesis (solo Sonic) era including; Shadow, Silver, Blaze, Espio and Metal.

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12 hours ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

I like this. Actually, if I were in charge of the franchise, this would be my vision for the next title. I already think Sonic embracing a fully 3D open world gameplay inspired by the classic level design and physics would bring killer success for the franchise. Sonic needs just one big title that really focuses on establishing him a great 3D platformer, something Mario did but that he has never once done in this franchise. Just for one game, channel the most fundamental essence of what the franchise is. Down to the narrative, the gameplay, the aesthetic. No distractions, no fluff. Just nail down Sonic in an expansive 3D world so that people know what they're getting when they play these games.

 

Then in the following title I would expand by reintroducing key characters and extend the gameplay and lore in places that are appropriate.

 

But yes, I really do think franchise needs this. It's not the only way to move forward but I strongly believe it's the best way. It doesn't matter if some fans whine about it because this vision is about establishing a rock solid platform for the future that will allow other characters to come back but with actually fantastic gameplay and a cohesive narrative.

No more crap reviews from the media. Sonic is back. Among the top sellers of the year. All of that follows.

Alright then. But maybe a “Sonic is Missing!” spinoff little 2D game could work for those who do like the friends. 

12 hours ago, Plasme said:

The repeated idea that Sonic cutscenes couldn't be moving or powerful without multiple characters interacting shows a massive lack of imagination and ambition. Look at other games which have no character interaction and how powerful they can be. It's generally agreed that Halo 3 ODST's most moving scenes are when the Rookie is alone and looking at the destruction caused by the Covenant. Other 2D platformers, such as Braid and Limbo, have moving plots and cutscene esque moments without major character dialogue and interaction. I could go on and on.

Or even earlier, Alien Soldier. Or even Missile Command! 

13 hours ago, Plasme said:

I thought people would respond in this way.

The relationship between Sonic and Tails is a significant aspect of Sonic Colors and Lost World. To a lesser extent Generations, but it's still at the core of what little plot there is in that game. Of course, in Unleashed it's Sonic and Chip. None of the 3D Sonic titles have ever exclusively focused on Sonic as the protagonist. 

In all of the modern 3D games Sonic's friends and other minor characters have frequently cropped up. In Generations his friends give dialogue after every mission and cheer Sonic in the final boss, in Lost World the Deadly Six were the focus of the plot and in Forces all the friends was back with a vengeance, and Infinite was the focus of the plot. 

There hasn't been a game featuring only Sonic and focusing on his rivalry with Eggman since Sonic 4: Episode 1. And that game was poorly designed in every conceivable way. After that game you are looking at Sonic 1 and Sonic 3D Flickies Island (discounting the Special Stages).

And I disagree that there's nothing to do with a game focusing on Sonic and Eggman, there's a lot of untapped potential, because the rivalry between Sonic and Eggman is never the focus of the plot anymore. It's always Sonic's friendships and the new villain of the week. People were even excited about the prospect in Forces, until Infinite came and ruined it. Sonic 1 does have a dark atmosphere, albeit it's very subtle and kid friendly. The levels progressively become more industrial and builds to the final confrontation with Eggman in the final zone. At the end of the game, you even have the option of blowing his ship up. Sonic 1 also has the darkest boss theme aside from the US Sonic CD OST. While Sonic CD has Amy and Metal Sonic, it's probably the closest to Sonic 1's vision. That game also becomes more industrial, 'darker, and grows to Sonic and Eggman's final fight. And on this topic, Sonic 3D Flickies Island also has this to an extent too. I think by focusing on Sonic and Eggman you can really build up their rivalry and make it something interesting. 

 

Agreed. 

15 hours ago, MadmanRB said:

Dude we have had what nearly 5 friggin Games of Sonic only

 

Unleashed, Colors, Generations, Lost world

Sonic only? that ship has sailed

There is a reason why some of us want the adventure formula back

This is also why Boom was shoved to the forefront and became the borderline franchise killer it was instead of a forgettable oddity, why Team Sonic Racing was greenlit, and why peoplebused to get hyped over MOBILE GAMES. And why Sega seems to be focused on using extra characters as a selling point now. 

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18 hours ago, Plasme said:

I'd love to see Sonic really go back to his roots and go for a Sonic 1 vibe. Just Sonic and Eggman fighting over the chaos emeralds. It could have that minimalist dark and menacing atmosphere of Sonic 1.

1: Sonic 1 had NO "dark and menacing" atmosphere. At least no more than Sonic 2 had with the Death Egg in outer space, Sonic 3 with Carnival Night or Sonic & Knuckles with the Death Egg (again).

2: That would either have to mean there's no dialogue/cutscenes at all, or it's always Sonic and Eggman talking to each other..which would become boring REAL fast, especially with the current "writers" (I don't feel they deserve that title). Would you want a stage, boss, chit-chat, stage, boss, chit-chat structure, but always purely with the same 2 characters?

"Arrgh, Sonic you defeated me!"
"Yep, I sure did!"

"Arrgh, how dare you defeat me again, Sonic!"
"It's my job, dude."

"Damnit, you again?"
"Yup!"

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Sonic's has a very nomadic and "lone wolf" type of personality, I think it'd be more than fitting to have him run off on a little adventure by himself. On the other hand, Sonic's friends give a good contrast to his "free with the wind" nature.

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