What direction could Sonic possibly go towards at this point?

[Phantom G]

It should go without saying that Sonic is yet again in another rough patch of his career. I wouldn't go so far as to call it another dark age, but it certainly has me worried as to the state of the franchise in the near future. While Mania, though not being what I wanted in the first Classic Sonic game since Sonic 3&K, it was received really well from both critics and fans and I'm certain we'll see some sort of continuation eventually, Forces somehow managed to be even more polarizing than Lost World. I haven't played the latter game personally, but I do know that being Sonic's first real outing on eighth-generation consoles it was definitely lacking. And Team Sonic Racing, despite it looking like a reasonably fun game in its own right I don't think it'll even come close to the quality of Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed.

But, what do you guys think? Should Sonic go on a bit of a hiatus, are remakes of certain games like SA1 and SA2 in order, or is the series in need of an overhaul?

[Scape]

SEGA needs to get the whole crew together and start cracking the whip on Sonic Mania 2 as soon as reasonable

1. All New Zones

2. More cohesive story

3. CLASSIC AMY PLAYABLE

While that's happening, 

1. Get rid of everyone currently at Sonic Team. Yes, even Takashi Iizuka, Kazyuki Hoshino, Jun Senoue and Tomoya Ohtani. Burn the goddamn mattress.
2. Start the hunt for developers who are ready and willing to bring 3D Sonic to life. Fans, seasoned professionals, whatever. Be willing to pay good money for people who actually know what they’re doing.  Carefully select them. Get people who already like/respect Sonic, and can easily demonstrate it.
3. Give them all the time they need to make their game.
4. Let them do whatever they want. Screw “the brand.” Sonic has so many permutations there is no such thing as Sonic’s brand anymore. Let them add Sonic Boom Motobugs if they want, who gives a shit.
5. Get all the executives in a circle and have them pray for a miracle.

 

[Myst]

Sega needs to hire the 'Sonic Utopia' people.

There needs to be an actual 3D game with EXPLORATION in it, not just running from point A to point B.

12 minutes ago, Scape said:

SEGA needs to get the whole crew together and start cracking the whip on Sonic Mania 2 as soon as reasonable

1. All New Zones

2. More cohesive story

3. CLASSIC AMY PLAYABLE

While that's happening, 

1. Get rid of everyone currently at Sonic Team. Yes, even Takashi Iizuka, Kazyuki Hoshino, Jun Senoue and Tomoya Ohtani. Burn the goddamn mattress.
2. Start the hunt for developers who are ready and willing to bring 3D Sonic to life. Fans, seasoned professionals, whatever. Be willing to pay good money for people who actually know what they’re doing.  Carefully select them. Get people who already like/respect Sonic, and can easily demonstrate it.
3. Give them all the time they need to make their game.
4. Let them do whatever they want. Screw “the brand.” Sonic has so many permutations there is no such thing as Sonic’s brand anymore. Let them add Sonic Boom Motobugs if they want, who gives a shit.
5. Get all the executives in a circle and have them pray for a miracle.

 

Classic Amy playable won't make or break Sonic. I think what the Mania team is trying to do is keep Sonic, Tails & Knuckles as the stars, for nostalgia's sake. (Amy was never playable in the Genesis era)

The series became overbloated with characters after the 3D era, so I understand keeping Amy out. (but it would be nice to see her in cutscenes and FMV sequences)

& Fire Jun Senoue!? Are you crazy!? I'm all for Iizuka taking an early retirement but leave Senoue out of this.

[Scape]

13 hours ago, Myst said:

 

Classic Amy playable won't make or break Sonic. I think what the Mania team is trying to do is keep Sonic, Tails & Knuckles as the stars, for nostalgia's sake. (Amy was never playable in the Genesis era)

The series became overbloated with characters after the 3D era, so I understand keeping Amy out. (but it would be nice to see her in cutscenes and FMV sequences)

because clinging to nostalgia worked so well for Mario. Look, a lot of people want Classic Amy playable. It would be a selling point for Mania 2 that helps pull it out of the shadow of the classics and be a sign that SEGA isn't completely tone-deaf

[Tarnish]

I see no actual hope in Sonic's longterm future. Sonic Team/SEGA will continue to fail to realize what made Sonic great and unique, continue to reuse the same few ideas over and over and over again (boost, classic Sonic with broken physics, wisps, comedic/goofy tone, reusing old stages, rinse and repeat), destroy the small amount of canon it has remaining until we have a universe where absolutely nothing is consistent, making world building and character progression impossible and hire worse and worse writers and voice actors.

The only direction I would personally consider a positive step, is to ignore the last 13 years ever happened..never reference or use the crap they introduced in the last 10 years and continue the franchise after the Shadow game. But of course, that will never happen.

[MadmanRB]

At this stage I think a full on reboot is due for the main 3D series, let it rest for a bit but make a big comeback when things are ready but it must be treated like a total relaunch of the 3D series.

3D sonics reputation has gone beyond repairable and with mania essentially reboot of the 2d games a reboot of the 3D games is certainly welcome.

Learn from the failures of both Boom and 06 as both were intended to be reboots but were failures do to rushed release and ill timing

[Diogenes]

I think the most likely winning move would be to step away from what Modern Sonic has been doing and look more to what Mania has done. That doesn't necessarily mean going all classic all the time (though I can think of worse things), but its success certainly hasn't been an accident, and understanding why it's been so highly praised can only help Sonic Team in deciding where they should take Sonic next.

Of course there's the question of whether Sonic Team is willing and able to do that kind of introspection and retooling of the series, and unfortunately I don't have a lot of confidence in that.

[Marco9966]

I want Sonic to be more serious! I want stories like SA1, SA2 (even the infamous Sonic 06!) instead of slapstick comedy!

[Roger_van_der_weide]

I don't think lack of seriousness is the problem.
SA1 and SA2 sure had a lot more goofyness then Sonic Forces had.
Seems to me it's more the lack of conviction and energy that's the problem. Modern games not having fun with their own premise.

I'm tearing my hair out when I read about, say, Sonic Team's plans with the Lost Hex from Sonic Lost world and reading them describe it as a world of illusions and a continent of the future, and then looking at the game and scream "Where? WHERE? Where's all this cool stuff?"
Or Sonic Forces  dumbass war theme. YOU HAVE EGGMAN IN CONTROL OF THE ENTIRE PLANET!!! A VILLAIN THAT CAN SCREW WITH THE HEROES BRAINS WITH CREATING ILLUSIONS! Whether using it for comedy or drama, I don't care, DO SOMETHING WITH THAT PREMISE!

 

[Phantom G]

You're absolutely right. I think another big factor is the lack of development that even "big-budget" Sonic games like Forces seem to get. We all know that there's at least one new Sonic game every year. Whether it be a main series title or a spin-off, it doesn't really matter as long as something Sonic related is released. I think the most rational thing to do is to, wait for it, take their time and consider everything carefully. I know that seems counter-intuitive given the subject, but I don't care how long a Sonic game takes to get made, as long as it's well-made. 

[Marco9966]

What pisses me off the most is their lack of plot effort.

Is Infinite a robot? A biological weapon? A normal animal?

We he created by Eggman or recruited by him??

What the fuck is an Phantom Ruby prototype?? Did Eggman create the phantom ruby or find it in the desert??

A 5th grader would write more consistent story than this!!

[Phantom G]

I think that is largely due to the current writers allegedly not playing many Sonic games or even familiarizing themselves with the established lore.

And I believe the comics delved into Infinite's backstory a lot better than the "I AM NOT WEAK!!!" bullshit that Forces gave us.

[Marco9966]

5 minutes ago, Phantom G said:

I think that is largely due to the current writers allegedly not playing many Sonic games or even familiarizing themselves with the established lore.

The writers don't even know what Sonic Adventure is!

In an interview he said he is not aware about this "Adventures you're talking about" to the interviewer !!

5 minutes ago, Phantom G said:

And I believe the comics delved into Infinite's backstory a lot better than the "I AM NOT WEAK!!!" bullshit that Forces gave us.

That's because it's written by Flynn, a man who truly cares about Sonic.

I read his IDW comics to get my fix of GOOD Sonic stories (better characterizations, Sonic is not the only hero...)

[Phantom G]

Ah, I see. Well, that makes a lot more sense now that you point it out.

So, is there any specific reason why Flynn can't write for the games as well?

[Marco9966]

2 minutes ago, Phantom G said:

Ah, I see. Well, that makes a lot more sense now that you point it out.

So, is there any specific reason why Flynn can't write for the games as well?

I have no idea. There's this twitter campaign #Flynn4Sonic where fans ask SEGA to have Flynn write for the games.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/Flynn4Sonic?src=hash

[Phantom G]

And how is that coming along if you don't mind me asking?

[Marco9966]

6 minutes ago, Phantom G said:

And how is that coming along if you don't mind me asking?

Well I don't see SEGA hiring him for the games soon, we can only hope, but he still meets with them to talk about the comics projects.

His characters interactions are great (something that the games lack):

Spoiler

 

 

[Phantom G]

I see what you mean. Also, why the hell was Omega dabbing in one of those panels? Lmao.

[Plasme]

The direction Sonic will probably go in will be:

- Dreadful live action film

- Mediocre new Sonic Team product

- Successor to Mania by a different team which misses the point and will be another Sonic 4

 

Sorry for the pessimism, but I think that's what will most likely happen.

[Phantom G]

It's cool, I think it's better to be more real about something like this. But in any case, the first and third scenario listed are the most likely to happen to me, as well. Another mediocre game from Sonic Team is less likely to happen if they would learn to be mindful of what exactly they're developing like I suggested earlier.

[Marco9966]

For me the direction is:

Good products:

- Great IDW comics

- Fun Team Sonic Racing game

-Sonic Mania 2 with a new tie-in cartoon

 

Unsure:

- A new boost game with Sonic as the only playable characters, wisps as powerups, and other characters as cheerleaders.

-Movie will be okay like Hop and Smurfs for families and kids. I have no idea how hardcore fans like uswill react.

 

[Phantom G]

I'm only going to say what I think should happen for the next Modern Sonic game.

-A boost game where Sonic is the main focus (Shadow could be either added in as DLC or modded in if the game is released on PC)

-Sonic should keep all the known moves in his repertoire (Homing Attack, Slide, Boost, Light Speed Dash, Stomp, Drift, Side Step, and maybe Bounce Bracelet)

-Have all these moves be mapped to different buttons.

-Have a lot of expansive levels that reward the player from diverging off the beaten pathway with items like extra lives, rings, shields, etc.

-Have the trick system from Rush and Generations make a return.

-Keep the cast list relatively small, i.e Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream, Shadow possibly, and Eggman

-Have a story with the amount of depth as titles like Unleashed or Black Knight with solid voice direction.

-Have the game be mostly 3D with some 2D sprinkled in.

-The music I know will be decent at the very least, so I won't say a whole lot about this.

-And most importantly, listen to the feedback that fans have to give.

This isn't asking for too much, now is it?

 

 

[Marco9966]

3 minutes ago, Phantom G said:

-Keep the cast list relatively small, i.e Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream, Shadow possibly, and Eggman

I'd love to see Cream again

Quote

-Have a story with the amount of depth as titles like Unleashed or Black Knight with solid voice direction.

I miss these kinds of games. I miss the epic vibes.

[Phantom G]

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

I'd love to see Cream again

I miss these kinds of games. I miss the epic vibes.

We all do, man. That's why fans have taken the initiative and making games like Sonic World that could be amazing if given a proper budget.

[Myst]

42 minutes ago, Phantom G said:

I'm only going to say what I think should happen for the next Modern Sonic game.

-A boost game where Sonic is the main focus (Shadow could be either added in as DLC or modded in if the game is released on PC)

-Sonic should keep all the known moves in his repertoire (Homing Attack, Slide, Boost, Light Speed Dash, Stomp, Drift, Side Step, and maybe Bounce Bracelet)

-Have all these moves be mapped to different buttons.

-Have a lot of expansive levels that reward the player from diverging off the beaten pathway with items like extra lives, rings, shields, etc.

-Have the trick system from Rush and Generation make a return.

-Keep the cast list relatively small, i.e Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream, Shadow possibly, and Eggman

-Have a story with the amount of depth as titles like Unleashed or Black Knight with solid voice direction.

-Have the game be mostly 3D with some 2D sprinkled in.

-The music I know will be decent at the very least, so I won't say a whole lot about this.

-And most importantly, listen to the feedback that fans have to give.

This isn't asking for too much, now is it?

 

 

Honestly, I'm tired of the Unleashed/Colors/Generations/Forces style of gameplay. Sega needs to create a new style of gameplay for the 3D games, maybe something simple like a Crash Bandicoot game. But boosting just doesn't work. It's exhilirating for a few brief moments to witness the sheer speed but quickly loses all of its charm when you can just boost straight to the goal of every stage.

Heck, I'd welcome Heroes style gameplay at this point. 

And no more 2D segments in 3D games, please. Keep 2D gameplay for the Mania series. Modern Sonic should be 100% 3D. It always irritates me how the Modern games will suddenly switch perspective from 3D to 2D in the middle of a stage. It's as if the developers can't make up their mind what they want the game to be so they're throwing all these different gameplay styles at you to see what sticks.

I agree the 'epic' storylines need to nake a comeback. That's what I loved about Forces. Its had its problems but also had moments of greatness. That big war on the battlefield set to the score of the London Symphony Orchestra was amazing. More of THAT, please!

It irritates me how negatively Forces has been recieved. It worries me that Sega will look at the backlash and think to themselves: 'Well, serious storylines don't work for Sonic. Guess it's back to Colors/Boom stories!'

I want to see humans in Sonic again. More of G.U.N, Station Square, the ARK, Flashbacks of Maria. (A Team Dark spinoff game would be fun)

Knuckles needs to be less of a meathead (Which is another thing I appreciate about Forces) bring back Angel Island too.

If anyone from Sega is reading this, please, PLEASE, get rid of OrBot & CuBot. I can't stand them. If you want to give Eggman some cronies, just use Shadow & Rouge. (Or Metal Sonic)

Chao Gardens are a must for the next game, IMO.