What direction could Sonic possibly go towards at this point?

[Kazhnuz]

Personally, I would be all for a second try for a Lost World type game (gameplay-wise) but without the gravity gimmick and with a somewhat improved gameplay (my two top point would be to improve the run button to make it feel better, maybe with an autorun that accelerate until we go to some "nerfed boost" and secondly the "kick" replaced by something else). What I liked in Sonic Lost World is that the level felt a bit more "diverse" to me, and I would love to see how it could get improved. And it could be great to re-implement multi-character, with the use of different abilities over a same base. I'm not an hater for the boost gameplay, but I think that after Forces, we need a change and that the Lost World gameplay had the seed to do something pretty interesting. I'm a bit sad that after the reception of Lost World, they just tried to re-do Boost gameplay, instead of trying to improve the new base they had.

And of course I would like them to do something that they can make enough complete with the budget they have. One of the biggest problem with Forces is that the premise is too much for the budget (or the budget too small for the premise). I think that many Adventure fan wouldn't be unhappy with a "simple" story in a small game if the stake are greatly done and that the character interaction are interesting. And I think that they could keep the "lower budget character interaction before the level", but it would be actually better used if they were before some missions (it would also be an interesting place to do character developpement… I think that something kinda like a mixt between Fire Emblem's support conversations and Sonic Colors DS missions.

Ah, and a Super Sonic final boss. If I agree that they shouldn't use Chaos Emerald on each game, it have been enough time for Modern, for me.

[Myst]

1 minute ago, Kazhnuz said:

Ah, and a Super Sonic final boss. If I agree that they shouldn't use Chaos Emerald on each game, it have been enough time for Modern, for me.

I agree. Both Adventure games, Unleashed (and Shadow, unpopular opinion) had really spectaular final bosses. I was hoping that in Forces we would've seen Sonic go super against an overpowered Infinite in the end, but no. Infinite just disappears. Feh.

[Milo]

Assuming it's still SoJ/Sonic Team that still has the final say on franchise management; I'd advice expecting little to change. The series continues the status quo of having no real direction, Sonic Team are the sole designer of the mainline games, and no matter how mediocre their games are received in reviews or how much their newer games sell less than their predecessors, it's somehow just profitable enough to not warrant any meaningful changes.

With that said, if SoA truly does actually have some real control over the series' direction as of the 2015 restructuring; it's a possibility that we might start seeing more projects in the vein of Mania; in which other developers who understand Sonic can be brought in (or maybe even established in-house) and be given enough creative control to produce genuinely fantastic Sonic games.

Rather disappointed I have to say the latter is a possibility rather than a guarantee though.

 

[Kazhnuz]

1 minute ago, Myst said:

I agree. Both Adventure games, Unleashed (and Shadow, unpopular opinion) had really spectaular final bosses. I was hoping that in Forces we would've seen Sonic go super against an overpowered Infinite in the end, but no. Infinite just disappears. Feh. 

Yep, if a Super Sonic ending isn't needed for a smaller-scope game like Colors or Lost World for me, in Forces it would have been pretty relevant.

[Phantom G]

Hmm. Well, it's evident to me that everybody has their own feelings towards this matter. And though I agree with some things and disagree with other things, though I won't explicitly say which, I think that maybe the best thing to do now is just to wait and see what happens next. And also, maybe have a sliver of faith in SEGA/Sonic Team.

[SaturnWolf]

I have very little hope. The movie is going to be absolutely dreadful, I don't think anyone actually expects it to be good. If Forces is any indication, then Sega or Sonic Team or whoever the hell is responsible for it turning out the way it did, they don't even know what to do with Modern Sonic if they're going to just going to do a significantly worse, less fun version of Generations, a game with exactly one other Sonic Team game between the two, and there's absolutely no guarantee at all that the Mania team will return since it's not like Sega owns them.

 

It's really hard to be optimistic.

[Myst]

6 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

What pisses me off the most is their lack of plot effort.

Is Infinite a robot? A biological weapon? A normal animal?

We he created by Eggman or recruited by him??

 

According to the prequel comic, Infinite was a thief looking to sell Eggman's tech on the black market. Eggman caught him, and offered him a job as a security guard. One evening, Eggman sent Infinite after Shadow, who beat him in battle, scarring his face. Infinite wore a mask to cover his injuries, vowing to be strong, and never lose in another humiliating defeat.

Soon after, he allowed himself to be a ginnypig to test out Eggman's newest creation, the Phantom Ruby, hoping to become the most powerful force on the planet. A power hungry narcissist.

The game didn't explain this very well though, since half of the story is in the form of a comic, the other half in the form of DLC.

[Phantom G]

16 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

I have very little hope. The movie is going to be absolutely dreadful, I don't think anyone actually expects it to be good. If Forces is any indication, then Sega or Sonic Team or whoever the hell is responsible for it turning out the way it did, they don't even know what to do with Modern Sonic if they're going to just going to do a significantly worse, less fun version of Generations, a game with exactly one other Sonic Team game between the two, and there's absolutely no guarantee at all that the Mania team will return since it's not like Sega owns them.

 

It's really hard to be optimistic.

I hear that. And yeah, considering the circumstances, having some hope may very well be the irrational thing to do. But, I dunno. Perhaps Sonic is just cursed or something.

 

[Sonic Fan J]

12 hours ago, Myst said:

(Amy was never playable in the Genesis era)

Spin offs say something other than never, but I digress.

2 hours ago, Phantom G said:

-And most importantly, listen to the feedback that fans have to give.

This isn't asking for too much, now is it?

The thing about listening to fan feedback is that this franchise has one of the most fractured fan bases around. Then there is also the problem of having so many different types of gameplay as to make your head spin. I personally am of the mind that SEGA/Sonic Team to need to block out outside noise, especially since a game that tried to appease everyone was generally panned, and make a Sonic game that hey are passionate enough about that no amount of corporate can ruin the project. It's an unrealistic outlook however as nothing speaks more than sales and Forces performed successfully according to SEGA. In light of that, I expect the next game to again be something that follows the mold of Forces where it has a sprinkling of quick, pick up and play levels and numerous playstyles of questionable cohesion.

[tailsBOOM!]

Sonic.  Schoolhouse.  Remake  And. Sonic. '06:.  New. And. Uncut.

We could maybe finally get the Sonic Adventure 3 games that they know that we want but, you know, we'll probably instead get another 30 games before that.

[Multikaris]

5 hours ago, Plasme said:

The direction Sonic will probably go in will be:

- Dreadful live action film

- Mediocre new Sonic Team product

- Successor to Mania by a different team which misses the point and will be another Sonic 4

 

Sorry for the pessimism, but I think that's what will most likely happen.

Does this account for IDW, or the possibility that one of these items is so bad it finally ends Sonic?

 

Also, I kinda expect them to extrude an Adventure-fan-pandering-product down the line.

[Phantom G]

2 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Spin offs say something other than never, but I digress.

The thing about listening to fan feedback is that this franchise has one of the most fractured fan bases around. Then there is also the problem of having so many different types of gameplay as to make your head spin. I personally am of the mind that SEGA/Sonic Team to need to block out outside noise, especially since a game that tried to appease everyone was generally panned, and make a Sonic game that hey are passionate enough about that no amount of corporate can ruin the project. It's an unrealistic outlook however as nothing speaks more than sales and Forces performed successfully according to SEGA. In light of that, I expect the next game to again be something that follows the mold of Forces where it has a sprinkling of quick, pick up and play levels and numerous playstyles of questionable cohesion.

You certainly have a point there. And to be honest, I was only thinking about all the good things the fan base has offered and contributed instead of its overall behavior towards Sonic. But you know, there really is no pleasing everyone, though I think that's pretty obvious. I mean just look at all the things that have been said here, for instance. I for one want to see the boost formula in its fullest potential, others want to see the Adventure gameplay return, and some want to see Lost World's parkour gimmick given another chance.

I guess there'll never be any one solution that everybody can agree on, huh?

[blueblur98]

left. he's going left.

[Marco9966]

Remember when even the Mario-party like spinoff game had a deeper story than the recent MAIN games???

Or when the racing spinoff had an epic story and presentation, that you could watch only the cutscenes like a movie without playing and that would be enough to get out of this experience with a smile?????

Good times indeed!

 

[Kazhnuz]

I'm not sure that I would call Sonic Shuffle storyline any "deeper" than Forces. Especially with how Shuffle's ending is even more cheesy and painful ("but we need suffering to have dreams !1!!1") to watch than the "friendship and teamwork overload" of Forces. For me, looking at the cutscenes of Shuffle was a bit like seeing those fake deep pics we see on blogs/facebook with Comic Sans and kittens pictures.

Sonic Riders and Riders ZG were great though. They had no friggin care about being coherant with the rest of the universe/canon/timeline/whatever, but they were pretty good (maybe were good because of that ? Instead of trying to "be Sonic", they had their own universe that was pretty great and sci-fi ?).

 

TBH, I think that what is interesting is that as they failed their "confort zone" (a bit like 2006 was for the Adventures, even if Forces isn't as a failure than 2006), everything is possible now.

[Marco9966]

2 hours ago, Kazhnuz said:

I'm not sure that I would call Sonic Shuffle storyline any "deeper" than Forces. Especially with how Shuffle's ending is even more cheesy and painful ("but we need suffering to have dreams !1!!1") to watch than the "friendship and teamwork overload" of Forces. For me, looking at the cutscenes of Shuffle was a bit like seeing those fake deep pics we see on blogs/facebook with Comic Sans and kittens pictures.

Sonic Riders and Riders ZG were great though. They had no friggin care about being coherant with the rest of the universe/canon/timeline/whatever, but they were pretty good (maybe were good because of that ? Instead of trying to "be Sonic", they had their own universe that was pretty great and sci-fi ?).

 

TBH, I think that what is interesting is that as they failed their "confort zone" (a bit like 2006 was for the Adventures, even if Forces isn't as a failure than 2006), everything is possible now.

Riders didn't try to pander to the classic fans by bringing in Classic Sonic to help Modern Sonic win the race or having Green Hill and Chemical Pland and Death Egg as racing tracks !!!

Imagine if Classic Sonic was here

2 hours ago, Kazhnuz said:

 fake deep pics we see on blogs/facebook with Comic Sans and kittens pictures

Also the old powerpoints with the flowers!

My point is that Sonic Shuffle expanded the world and introduced new concepts and ACTUALLY EXPLAINED THEM (not like Infinite's confusing species robot or animal or both, or the phantom ruby with all the prototypes and its powers used when convenient in the game, and Shadow's disappearance for 6 months without explanation, I can go on!)

[Tracker_TD]

20 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Riders didn't try to pander to the classic fans by bringing in Classic Sonic to help Modern Sonic win the race or having Green Hill and Chemical Pland and Death Egg as racing tracks !!!

Imagine if Classic Sonic was here

Both Riders games have tracks that literally exist just to shout out to fans of SEGA’s Classic hey day, completely divorced of any story logic. It’s not Classic Sonic (though he does appear), but it’s the same idea.

(And I friggin’ love those tracks). 

[Marco9966]

5 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

Both Riders games have tracks that literally exist just to shout out to fans of SEGA’s Classic hey day, completely divorced of any story logic. It’s not Classic Sonic, but it’s the same idea.

(And I friggin’ love those tracks). 

It's cool that the most serious game of the franchise, at the peak of the Adventure era references the classics. Better than having Classic Sonic as a main character, and Green Hill playable three times in the same game.

They also reference Sonic Heroes and sonic Adventure

[Wraith]

4 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

Both Riders games have tracks that literally exist just to shout out to fans of SEGA’s Classic hey day, completely divorced of any story logic. It’s not Classic Sonic, but it’s the same idea.

(And I friggin’ love those tracks). 

Not that I'm really arguing the....integrity of Sonic Shuffle's story here, but at least those were original locales that were chocked full of references as a bonus at the end of the game. It's not baked into the game's entire premise like they keep doing nowadays. That's the thing that's lame.

[Marco9966]

I hope we see a full return to the Adventure formula.

-Epic serious stories

-Epic locations and realistic graphics.

-Epic soundtrack

-Spin dash instead of boost

-Multiple playable characters and playstyles

-New deep characters, and introspection and development for existing characters

-Deep symbolic messages

-No classic pandering, instead write actual stories that Modern Sonic and his friend can live and grow out of

-Chaos emeralds and Super Sonic.

 

At least we have the IDW comics

[Phantom G]

If by "return to the Adventure formula" you mean another Adventure game, like Sonic Adventure 3, then I think you're gonna have to keep dreaming. Iizuka said himself in a TGS interview that he'll only make an SA3 if it's an advancement of the already established gameplay. He doesn't really want to make another game like that for the sake of appeasing the fans.

[Marco9966]

1 minute ago, Phantom G said:

If by "return to the Adventure formula" you mean another Adventure game, like Sonic Adventure 3, then I think you're gonna have to keep dreaming. Iizuka said himself in a TGS interview that he'll only make an SA3 if it's an advancement of the already established gameplay. He doesn't really want to make another game like that for the sake of appeasing the fans.

He had no problem shoving Classic and Green Hill and Chemical plant down our throat multiple times.

It's not necessary to call it Adventure 3. In fact Sonic Heroes, Shadow The Hedgehog, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Riders Zero Gravity do not have the name "Adventure 3", but they are still epic and have the Adventure spirit!

[Phantom G]

Just now, Marco9966 said:

He had no problem shoving Classic and Green Hill and Chemical plant down our throat multiple times.

It's not necessary to call it Adventure 3. In fact Sonic Heroes, Shadow The Hedgehog, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Riders Zero Gravity do not have the name "Adventure 3", but they are still epic and have the Adventure spirit!

When I said "appeasing the fans", I was referring to the Adventure fans specifically. And yes, I know the constant rehashing of those two stages has been done to death and the inclusion of Classic Sonic in Forces was absolutely unnecessary, but I never really took that as pandering to the Classic fans and more so just being lazy instead of taking the time to come up with something new and exciting.

Furthermore, all those games you listed certainly have the essence of an Adventure game but if that was the case, shouldn't people be begging for Sonic Adventure 6 instead of Sonic Adventure 3? That's all I'm sayin'.

[Marco9966]

Just now, Phantom G said:

When I said "appeasing the fans", I was referring to the Adventure fans specifically. And yes, I know the constant rehashing of those two stages has been done to death and the inclusion of Classic Sonic in Forces was absolutely unnecessary, but I never really took that as pandering to the Classic fans and more so just being lazy instead of taking the time to come up with something new and exciting.

Furthermore, all those games you listed certainly have the essence of an Adventure game but if that was the case, shouldn't people be begging for Sonic Adventure 6 instead of Sonic Adventure 3? That's all I'm sayin'.

Name doesn't matter, we beg for an epic game from a company that should respect its property and characters and universe.

If the company respected its property, we wouldn't have bitchy Tails, jokes in every cutscene, nonsensical plots (Infinite) and lazy graphics (square trees).

 

[Phantom G]

7 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

Name doesn't matter, we beg for an epic game from a company that should respect its property and characters and universe.

If the company respected its property, we wouldn't have bitchy Tails, jokes in every cutscene, nonsensical plots (Infinite) and lazy graphics (square trees).

 

Well, then, I guess there really is no remedy to all these problems unless SEGA/Sonic Team properly learns from all the mistakes they've made instead of avoiding them like they have for so long. But hey, that reminds me, wasn't there an online survey conducted after Forces came out to see what critiques and concerns fans had with the series?