Revive One, Banish Another

[Multikaris]

17 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

For the record I wouldn't hardline go to bat for the Zeti's designs; I certainly think it's possible to come up with more "Sonicy" monsters. But I don't buy the argument that a bunch of colorful, relatively simply designed oni-esque goofballs don't at all fit in a series of colorful, relatively simply designed animal-esque goofballs, nor that they're somehow radically less fitting than Chaos, the Biolizard, the Black Arms, Iblis and Solaris, and Dark Gaia.

Right, how would such monsters be handled, design-wise? Considering apparently Void, Eclipse, etc aren’t monstrous enough.

 

And Blue Blood, The Iblis Creatures are supposed to be unnatural. 

 

I personally don’t mind all the kaiju in the series.

[Red Hot Jack]

For me Sonic villains have to be either like Eggman, or robots or mobian or at least furry-like. Which is one of the many reasons I see a lot of potential in Infinite, he could use some good writing.

The Deadly Six do not fit Sonic, but for the record, I'd take them over the other generic monsters, Chaos excluded.

[Diogenes]

51 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Right, how would such monsters be handled, design-wise?

Well, that's the tricky part. Especially because it's so hard to get people on the same page about the series' aesthetics in general.

For monsters as characters, I think the Zeti are overall a move in the right direction; they're clearly set apart from "normal people" but there's a similar philosophy in terms of color and the stylization of their proportions as there is with the main cast, so they don't end up looking completely out of place like, say, the Black Arms or Iblis spawn. They could maybe stand to have a little more in common with how the main characters are designed, or at least be more coherent with each other; different body types and silhouettes are typically good character design but the Zeti are kind of all over, you've got little pill body Zik, super lanky Zazz and his long face, Zeena's proportions being a little too human, and whatever the hell is up with Zavok's whole mouth area...there's kind of a fight between the details that tie them together as a species and the ones meant to make them each look unique. I guess the Babylon Guardian from Riders wasn't too bad either, at least as a monster based off of the Babylonian bird people compared to a monster meant to be inhuman.

For monsters as basic enemies I think a lot of the Dark Gaia spawn were decent. Similarly stylized/exaggerated proportions, color choices that feel similarly vibrant as the main cast's but are unique to them and fairly consistent across them, but more menacingly and inhumanly built, like the Nightmares being hunched over with big toothy jaws and spikes, the Titans being big spiky brutes with just one big eye, and the Big Mothers having stomach mouths to barf enemies at you.

And for giant monsters...honestly it's hard to think of one that I feel really fit the series. Perfect Chaos isn't too bad, but kinda pushing the limits of what I'd like to see. I guess the Nega Mother Wisp is ok? Not that I particularly like its design but it's kinda on the right wavelength. Mostly just take what works for the above categories and amp it up. Bigger, nastier, but still stylized in a way somewhat reminiscent of the main characters.

[Multikaris]

I’d forsake Orbot and Cubot, who were better as one-off characters. In every subsequent game they’ve been worthless. Would also cut down on Wisp breeds, especially useless ones. Who i’d bring out depends on if we’re splitting Dreamcast from modern or not. At the very least the other characters would regain prominence. 

[Red Hot Jack]

4 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

I’d forsake Orbot and Cubot, who were better as one-off characters. In every subsequent game they’ve been worthless. Would also cut down on Wisp breeds, especially useless ones. Who i’d bring out depends on if we’re splitting Dreamcast from modern or not. At the very least the other characters would regain prominence. 

There aren't any interesting henchmen for Eggman in my opinion, not as these 2, I'm pretty neutral towards them, but:

- Sleet and Dingo are uninspired IMO

- Decoe and Bocoe (Sonic X) are just so boring, they are also not different from each other, so that's a malus

- Snively... Gosh how much I hate him, he's so clammy, and annoying

- So the only competition are Scratch and Grounder who I think are good, although Orbot is smarter than them, and sassy.

[Iko]

There are reasons why I think the Deadly 6 are unfitting in Sonic.

Everyone can have a different opinion on this so I'm not going to force you to agree with me, but I'm going to at least explain why I think this.

-Color scheme

Sonic characters follow a scheme when it comes to colors. Each character has a main color, and usually they have details of other colors that create an harmony with said main color. The biggest exception is Charmy who has a confused color design and it's hard to state what's his main color (probably it's supposed to be orange), but even he still follows the common yellow/black/red pattern than many other characters (who are usually associated with Eggman) also follow, so he still fits in a way.

The Deadly 6 also have color rules, they follow their color rule even more strictly than the other Sonic characters. The problem is that the Deadly 6's color rules are different than tho ones of other Sonic characters. They have their body made of half black and half colored skin, the colored part is usually their main color (Zor is a small exception here, his skin is a lot more desaturated and bright than his main purple); Then, they have details of a clashing color, mainly their nails and horns (there are exeptions here too); their eyes are all yellow too.

2 different color "templates", 2 different and clashing styles that don't really fit well together IMO.

Realistic elements on the other hand fit better because they don't follow any color template, they aren't stylized, so they don't clash, they only appear as realistic elements (they clash for different reasons than colors, for being realistic in a cartoony series for example).

There are other exceptions, such as Big and Chaos' eyes, but those characters still fit with what I said about Charmy, there are other things that still make those character fit with the others, despite having some exceptions in their design.

-Shape

Most Sonic characters have simple bodies made out of simple geometric shapes as a base. This is even more evident in the Classic design of the characters. There are exeptions too, the most notorious is Vector, and others such as Rouge having a more human-like body, but even those characters still share a lot of common formal details with other characters (shoes, eyes, proportions): they are all connected together design-wise.

The Deadly 6 also have common design elements between them, but those common elements are different from the ones of the other Sonic characters. In addition, their bodies aren't based on simple geometric shapes (except Zomzom): Zavok and Zeena have stylized human-like bodies, Zor and Zazz have some deformed cartoony bodies that are all but geometric, and even if Zik is a sort of oval thing too, it doesn't feel "geometric" too in a way.

They kinda fit with Vector's design a bit, but Vector is the exception and he should not be taken as an example of how Sonic characters look like.

Most recurring Sonic characters follow the same rules when it comes to shapes, even characters who initially look different such as Eggman, Chaos (0), the Werehog, Infinite, the classic animals, the chao, Chip and even the wisps (despite their gummy squishy eyes clash a bit with the solid and glossy plastic-like eyes of the other Sonic characters). Even badniks usually follow this pattern: they usually have simple bodies made out of a combination of simple geometrical shapes (other than often being based off an animal), and the Dark Gaia minions IMO are part of this category: they look (and some even resemble closely) like badniks, they are familiar in a way, and even if vaguely, they can be seen as "geometrical" too (even the Titan seems like a big triangle with arms and legs).

That's the same reason why I think that Orbot and Cubot fit very well Sonic, design-wise: because I think they are the representation of the core of Sonic's character design.

The Deadly 6 on the other hand are just as unfitting as the anime NPCs in Sonic Adventure, or the Pixar NPCs in Unleashed, etc.

As I said for the colors, this is less of a problem when you compare characters to realistic elements, because realistic stuff is not stylized so it's less clashing compared to something that's stylized but in a different, clashing art style. Realistic elements may work at times (even the classics had some, especially Sonic 3), but other times they feel out of place too.

There are also common elements, such as eyes, shoes and gloves, some recurring body parts such as ears and fur, that make characters look similar each other, but there are a lot of exceptions in this department too.

[BlueSky]

I think I'd pass that choice.

I wouldn't really find any happiness of bringing some characters I love back at the cost of getting some other character out, I'm just that kind of weird person.

There're characters I like a lot, and characters that I don't enjoy quite as much, but they're nonetheless still part of this franchise anyway, and there might be even a teeny-tiny chance of someone loving some character I wouldn't be as fond of, so I wouldn't want to put my grieve out just for some other to get into exactly same situation.

Plus I think characters can be improved like everyone has potential, really, if these aren't used "well enough" we have now, what are the chances the forgotten ones would be treated any better? I dunno. Not really worth the risk or is it?

And seriously, I do find Silver more likeable than Sonic, from time to time the very least. Even the Pre-Reboot Archie Silver had characteristics that made him sympathetic in my eyes. For the most part at the very least.

[Mountaindewandsprite]

Revive: Fang the Sniper

Banish: Rouge the Bat

[Gumbit]

22 hours ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

Revive: Fang the Sniper

Banish: Rouge the Bat

No

[Red Hot Jack]

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 4:05 AM, Mountaindewandsprite said:

Revive: Fang the Sniper

Banish: Rouge the Bat

Nack appears in Mania and it's likely he will appear in future classic games. He's fine, no need to banish our favorite treasure hunter. As I said, eventually all relevant characters will be revived, when the opportunity presents itself.

[Rowl]

Bring back Chip.

Get rid off the Babylon Rouges. Unless they are already retired. Than it should be Silver.