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Revive One, Banish Another

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39 minutes ago, I Love Sticks said:

On defense of Scratch and Grounder: they have interesting designs, and they are different from one another, in fact I could see them back as lackeys for the classic series.

Considering one of their main traits is their comical bickering and just the fact they talk a lot... I don't see them fitting into the "silent" classic games at all.

39 minutes ago, I Love Sticks said:

Orbot and Cubot are still more entertaining.

I'll agree to disagree there. They don't do anything except hang around Eggman slightly annoying him... I never seen them have a point in the story or gameplay that I can remember. I don't find them very funny either. But meh... maybe SEGA will at least let us fight them in a goofy boss battle someday.

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Banish

-The Deadly Shits is the easiest to pick. 6 of the worst shat out creations I've ever seen from a Sonic game. So that leaves 6 characters to revive.

-Fails. So bad that even Boom Tails is an upgrade, and I panned that version for years....like with Shadow's voice it's like Sega challenged themselves to make him worse and worse over time.

-Hipster Sonic. He's not cool, he's not funny, he's not endearing, he's the worst. He's the lame ass Uncle who thinks he's still cool, and embarrasses himself every time he opens his big dumb mouth.

-Orbot and Cubot: Both add nothing to Eggman and just waste our time.

Revive

-Nack/Fang: I like his design, and I would love to see how he bounces off the more competent Rouge when it comes to treasure hunting.

-El Gran Gordo: The ONLY thing that makes X worth a damn. Eggman's wrestling persona is pure gold. I want it back. Mr. Tinker is nice...but he ain't got nothing on EL GRAN GORDO!

-Merlin Prower: I always liked the idea of Tails learning magic alongside technology. Magic just leads to potentially weird/amazing sights/stories.

-The Real Tails: Speaks for itself. Archie/IDW being the benchmark. Forces being the too cowardly/useless side to avoid with Lost World and Boom being the asshole side to avoid.

-Blaze: A pretty obvious choice considering she's a lot of people's as well as my own favourite female Sonic character

-The Real Sonic: The Sonic who is cool, doesn't love the smell of his own anus to a massive uncomfortable degree, sticks with quips rather than stand up routines, and has a slight edge to him. Since he was supposed to be the cooler alternative to Mario...and he definitely ain't that now.

-Tikal: Ok now here me out. She doesn't come back as an actual full character. She's still dead. But I like the idea she is like a guardian spirit for Knuckles. She also would be a connection to Knuckles' ancestry. 

-Any of the previous Duo's to be Eggmans sidekicks. Whether Scratch and Grounder or those guys from X...would take anyone.

-Mammoth Mogul: I dig his design, personality, goal, and everything. I think he'd be a cool villain to add.

 

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Honest opinion: I like the modern cast a lot, I don't want to see them replaced (maybe Orbot and Cubot as I'm neutral on them, the exception are the Deadly Six I guess) and there is already a lot of them, so no resurrections of old characters for me, Tikal is pretty nice but still, I'd only see her for spin-offs and the extended universe like comics (although the same for Sticks, since she's not a main character). 

So if they want to reintroduce more old characters, let it happen in the classic series.

And Blaze is still very much present in Sonic media, she just missed 2 appearances in main games.

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1 hour ago, dbzfan7 said:

-Any of the previous Duo's to be Eggmans sidekicks. Whether Scratch and Grounder or those guys from X...would take anyone.

X Eggman's lackeys would be Decoe, Bocoe, and Bokkun.

 

Would like for the EggBosses to get in the games instead of the Six. 

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Banish: The Babylon Rogues. They’re just nothing but a bunch of shit talkers who are useless without their boards.

Revive: Shade, Ix, and the rest of the Nocturnus. Even they are too similar to the dark legion, I still thought they were cool characters and they helped expand upon the lore of the franchise by revealing that they were the reason why Pachamac lost his shit. Too bad Penders fucked everything up.

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Banish the Deadly Six. Personally, I don't have all that much against them, but they're also just kinda there. Their designs are ugly and they look as if they belong in Mario or something, like everything else about Lost World. I'd be lying if I said their dialogue didn't make me laugh though, especially Zor. Still, I would happily ditch all six for the following: 

Revive Marine, Sticks, the Babylon Rogues, and Cream's prominence. It's been 11 years of no Marine outside of bread crumb cameos, one mention, and an appearance in the 25th anniversary Sonic Channel comics. I long for the day we'd finally see the spunky Aussie, hopefully by Blaze's side. Cream has really been lacking appearances and just once I'd like to see her interact with Blaze again. Sticks deserves a chance in the modern canon since Boom's dead. The Babylon Rogues are extremely fun and underrated characters. I think they're great rivals as well as comedy relief, and I love all things Riders. It's criminal TSR dropped the ball and does not feature these three. I think they're far more engaging rivals for Team Sonic than Team Dark. 

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Revive: Cream, Emerl/Gemerl and the experimental mecha-clones who aren't Metal Sonic (maybe Marine too if the Sol dimension is getting involved again).

banish: Honey (I don't think she ever needs to become a canon member of the cast, she was only a crossover character from Fighting Vipers and her design looks very fan-made), Eggman Nega (unnecessary recolor), Classic Sonic (as a separate character from Modern Sonic, just as unnecessary as Eggman Nega) and maybe the Deadly 6 as I think they are very unfitting in Sonic.

As much as I dislike some characters, I don't want anyone else to be "banished"; the colorful cast of different characters is part of the charm of this series, no matter if it's classic or modern, no matter if some people call them "s****y Sonic friends". And I'm OK with Orbot & Cubot (I honestly would like to see them connected to a bigger body and used as mid-bosses in a game).

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I love the modern cast, IDW issue 9 (and most likely the rest of the arc, as well as the rest of the run) can show why. They are so diverse and unique, but at the same time they have a similar style, they're frenzy and energetic, but also interesting, some of them even had character development in the past, lore, or in Tails' cases, some epiphanies. It's obvious the writing can't be consistent with so many games in the franchise, but I agree that it's been really crap recently, to quote Silver. So for this reasons, I don't want anyone "banished" from the modern cast, ESPECIALLY the heroes. Just... use them more and in better ways, there is no need to axe anyone. Obviously you can hate some of them, it's your opinions, you keep them and I accept them.

41990883_10216057115727911_5398308879257829376_n.jpg

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Still though in forces Tails and Silver were utterly useless.

Again I have no idea what Silver was doing in forces, twiddling his thumbs?

Stuck on bloody Gilligan's island?

As much I hated whiny Tails at least it was implied he was doing something, but Silver?

Yeah guess he forgot he has powers thanks to the idiot plot.

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1 hour ago, MadmanRB said:

Still though in forces Tails and Silver were utterly useless.

Again I have no idea what Silver was doing in forces, twiddling his thumbs?

Stuck on bloody Gilligan's island?

As much I hated whiny Tails at least it was implied he was doing something, but Silver?

Yeah guess he forgot he has powers thanks to the idiot plot.

Of all the resistance members in Forces, Silver is the only one we actually see doing anything. He actively fights Infinite in one scene and makes him drop Phantom Ruby prototype. It's not really implied it down that Tails is doing anything more than the rest of the cast.

Forces is crap with a rubbish story that makes terrible use of all of its characters. Please don't make me defend it. 

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7 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

I love the modern cast, IDW issue 9 (and most likely the rest of the arc, as well as the rest of the run) can show why. They are so diverse and unique, but at the same time they have a similar style, they're frenzy and energetic, but also interesting, some of them even had character development in the past, lore, or in Tails' cases, some epiphanies. It's obvious the writing can't be consistent with so many games in the franchise, but I agree that it's been really crap recently, to quote Silver. So for this reasons, I don't want anyone "banished" from the modern cast, ESPECIALLY the heroes. Just... use them more and in better ways, there is no need to axe anyone. Obviously you can hate some of them, it's your opinions, you keep them and I accept them.

41990883_10216057115727911_5398308879257829376_n.jpg

The modern cats is all good except the Deadly Six

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2 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

Deadly Six can be the exception, I agree, because they hardly fit Sonic

Funny thing is I think they kind of actually fit Shadow more than Sonic.

At least in terms of being foils for him.

Zazz could be like his Joker

Zeena as his poison Ivy

Zik as kind of a evil Yoda

As for Zor and Zemom a bit harder to say.

But i can see Zavok being a reflection of Shadows darker nature, certainly better than Black Doom

 

At least thats how I would do them

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12 hours ago, MadmanRB said:

Funny thing is I think they kind of actually fit Shadow more than Sonic.

At least in terms of being foils for him.

Zazz could be like his Joker

Zeena as his poison Ivy

Zik as kind of a evil Yoda

As for Zor and Zemom a bit harder to say.

But i can see Zavok being a reflection of Shadows darker nature, certainly better than Black Doom

 

At least thats how I would do them

I think everyone deserves a chance at good writing, but... Shadow definitely fits more, maybe not his backstory, but his design does, the Deadly Six look nothing like Sonic monsters, their personality isn't their strong point either. Shadow's personality also fits because it's Sonic's perfect opposite, Sonic is a lighthearted series but not only, it has more themes than that.

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I honestly think a lot of it comes down to having such strict proportioning with Sonic characters in the past. They at least tried to make the Deadly Six a little more within the conventions of the Sonic universe, compared to the say, the anime human characters in past games or the final villains like Black Doom and Biolizard.

I think the Deadly Six, or at least the concept they have, is good on paper, just generic writing doesn't do them the best justice. It's nice having a villain that's not just a serious shadowy demi-god 'oh so much more eviller than thou' contrast to Eggman that barely looks like they're from the same franchise, we really need more whimsical baddies.

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30 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Honest question, what does/should a "Sonic monster" look like?

I think the Deadly Six are more in line with Sonic himself than most "monsters(dark gaia, black doom etc)" in the series, but they're designs that end up being let down a lot by the stiff animation Lost World sticks to for most things. I think people would like them a lot more if the animators played to the fact that they're not really grounded in anything and look more like spirits/demons.

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13 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Chaos 0, Void, Mephiles, etc.

Void and Mephiles are barely even monstrous, they're stock Sonic character bodies with creepy eyes and weird colors.

And if Chaos 0 wasn't watery he'd hardly be any different from the Zeti.

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1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Void and Mephiles are barely even monstrous, they're stock Sonic character bodies with creepy eyes and weird colors.

And if Chaos 0 wasn't watery he'd hardly be any different from the Zeti.

I don't have a problem with the designs of the Zeti personally; if anything, I find them refreshingly unique as they're not anthros, robots or monsters. But to that same token they do look very... Unusual. There's not a lot of uniformity to their designs and many of their elements contrast with other characters; their eyes, mouth areas and lips, hands and feet... They look like they belong to a different franchise altogether. It's really hard to explain. No doubt somebody else will be able to do a better job of it. You're right about Chaos 0. His watery form is probably what makes him look more fitting, in a round about way.

It's almost like an uncanny valley situation. The Zeti have similar designs to Sonic and Co by being cartoony, but many of their features are just different enough and so they end up clashing. For the most part I think they're really quite solid. I don't have any issues with Zeena, Zazz and Zavok. Zor is mostly okay, but his lips stand out in a bad way. Zik and Zomom are the worst of the bunch.

Mephiles in both of his forms is no different to other Sonic characters, while monsters like Biolizard, Iblis and Dark Gaia are enormous beasts that don't have similarities to regular Sonic design. How much they fit is down to your own interpretation (I think they look dumb), but they are more believable in a way, I guess? All of the Dark Gaia Spawn enemies in Unleashed felt natural to the series in a way that the Iblis Spawn (and Eggman's robots) in '06 did not. 

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1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Void and Mephiles are barely even monstrous, they're stock Sonic character bodies with creepy eyes and weird colors.

And if Chaos 0 wasn't watery he'd hardly be any different from the Zeti.

Exactly. Kinda like the monsters in Tokusatsu shows like Karen Rider. There’s something off about them, but their proportions are roughly humanlike. See the likes of Juzo Fuwa (Shinikenger), Mesogog (Dino Thunder), Buredoran (Goseiger), etc.  It’s basically a kaijin with a Mobian’s physical form. That’s cool and a nice homage to Toku. The franchise needs more villains like that. Eclipse was a step in the right direction, but then Fullop and Boom happened.

 

And about Chaos, other than his evil glowing green eyes rather than Zomom’s googly eyes (admittedly, if he had glassier eyes he’d be creepier)

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For the record I wouldn't hardline go to bat for the Zeti's designs; I certainly think it's possible to come up with more "Sonicy" monsters. But I don't buy the argument that a bunch of colorful, relatively simply designed oni-esque goofballs don't at all fit in a series of colorful, relatively simply designed animal-esque goofballs, nor that they're somehow radically less fitting than Chaos, the Biolizard, the Black Arms, Iblis and Solaris, and Dark Gaia.

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