How has Sonic Forces affected your opinion of Sonic Team?

[SaturnWolf]

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

You can't compare a TV show to a video game.

You're completely missing the point. You yourself said "adapt it word for word, sequence by sequence" and you're now backpedaling with that by saying it doesn't have to be that.

And yes, 9 different locations, all of which are cities and paths to cities. Not a lot of room for variety, and people already didn't like the overabundance of city levels in Generations so I'm not sure why you think it would be different here.

[Marco9966]

3 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

You're completely missing the point. You yourself said "adapt it word for word, sequence by sequence" and you're now backpedaling with that by saying it doesn't have to be that.

It doesn't have to be that, but if it was it would still be decent. Aren't you gonna reply to the other points I made?

Do we agree that we need better writing than Sonic Forces? Do we agree that more characters should be involved ??

[SaturnWolf]

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

It doesn't have to be that, but if it was it would still be decent.

Do we agree that we need better writing than Sonic Forces? Do we agree that more characters should be involved ??

I have a rather negative outlook on Forces so I'd be willing to take basically anything over it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it on it's own would be "good".

[Marco9966]

2 minutes ago, DreamSaturn said:

I have a rather negative outlook on Forces so I'd be willing to take basically anything over it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it on it's own would be "good".

I hope Sonic Team at least do the most BASIC stuff:

-No Classic Sonic

-No coward Tails

 

[SaturnWolf]

1 minute ago, Marco9966 said:

 

-No Classic Sonic

-No coward Tails

 

That much I can agree on. I don't know what the hell they've been doing with Tails in recent years, but I'm not a fan.

[Marco9966]

Just now, DreamSaturn said:

That much I can agree on. I don't know what the hell they've been doing with Tails in recent years, but I'm not a fan.

And Ian Flynn has no "coward Tails" in his dictionnary

If at least Tails was brave in Sonic Forces, that would be a tad better than the current product we have.

[Kazhnuz]

Flynn working on the game is neither the only solution nor the solution to the core problem. I think he could so some interesting thing and he handle the characters quite well, but I can say the same things about many other people, for the first part the writer of the official Sonic anniversary comics. Those were really on point, pretty funny and had a lot of character into them. So the talent and the knowledge of the character is already in the Sonic Team or accessible to them (maybe not used for the games, though).

 

For instance, we could think if it's a good idea for Sonic of having script that are often radically different for occidental and japanese people. If you look at the change made between japanese and occidental script, you can see that some character haven't even the same personnality ! (for instance, the deadly 6 can be quite different in japanese, for instance Zeena) Most of the humor is toned down in japanese script. It's not new that the script are different in japan and occident, though, and I'm not saying that it's something bad in itself (there are other games that do that and that I like a lot), the question is for it being adequate "for Sonic". And for me, the problem here is mostly that I strongly disagree with the american script, tbh. I feel that since Colors it change even the goal of the writing. Moreover, the big different with many other project that have different script is that here the occidental script is the one that prevail (with for instance cutscenes animated for the occidental script…). If you look at Sonic Forces, it seems that the script followed that pattern : original story -> English script -> Japanese script

We can see a big turnover in japanese writers too : Colors have Yasushi Otake, Sonic Lost World have Harumasa Nakajima; Sonic Forces have Makoto Goya (initial story) and Eitaro Toyoda (japanse final script).

So here we can have two different solution :

- Stick to the current system and have an english writer that'll do less joke and use the character a better way. I don't feel that Flynn would be worse than other writers for this jobs, as he knows the character and do a good job to make them vibrant. It wouldn't solve the problem of having a script that travel from japan to US to japan again, though.

- Doing more the script in japan and then translating it a bit more accurately (with good translators, and writers that revamp a bit the text to make it feel more natural, in order to keep the goods of the current system). It wouldn't improve everything, though, but I feel that it would also improve the other problem of Sonic Forces : I've always the feeling when I look at that games that there have been too many hands on the script, and that the final script suffer from this with its inconsistent ideas. (and nope it's not that "the japanese writers didn't care about making it consistent", it's often something that happens when a script have too many hands,)

 

So for me the solution can't be simplified as something like "let's remove the current writer and use better one because Sonic Team have no talent !!1!1". Sonic Team still have people that are passionate and full of talent. For me, it's way more a question of policies and way of working the games. We can't always pin down a problem to individuals. Maybe there are problem in the leadership. Maybe they are problem with what are SEGA's demands on each games. Maybe there is a problem with the budget. But I'm not sure it's just a question of individuals.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

As much as I would like to say Sonic Forces changed my opinion on Sonic Team to some degree... But who even are Sonic Team nowadays? Sonic Forces barely had any of the same staff as the previous games outside of a few common people we often see.  It's hard to put correct blame on a team that keeps changing it's staff.

[Myst]

From a meeting held at Sonic Team headquarters..

You know this new Sonic game looks an awful lot like Shadow the Hedgehog.

Ho ho ho ho! Nooo! Green Hill! Classic 2D gameplay!

..With drifting and boosting.

Yes!

Yes, and you call it 'dark and edgy' despite the fact that it's written by Pontac & Graff.

Yes.. I.. Uh.. One thing I should.. Excuse me for one second.

Of course.

YAAAWN! Well that was wonderful. Good time was had by all, I'm pooped!

Yes I should be-- GOOD LORD WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THERE!?

..Live action Sonic movie.

A.. a LIVE ACTION Sonic movie!? 
At this low point in the franchise?
Fifteen years since Sonic was last relevant? Set ENTIRELY in the state of Montana!?

Yes!

Can I see it?

..No.

 

[Tarnish]

I'm at the point of: Sonic Team doesn't even deserve the time it takes for me to talk or think about them. They're pretty much dead to me as a developer.

[Alexios31]

Sorry to veer of topic but can someone please tell me who is the character to the right of Sonic? Thats not Rob O' is it?

[Meta77]

....I honestly want WANT to think that is a joke question.

Its avatar aka custom hero.

[Alexios31]

14 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

....I honestly want WANT to think that is a joke question.

Its avatar aka custom hero.

Sigh. I’m new to the Sonic franchise. No need to laugh at me and make me feel uncomfortable for asking. 

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

14 hours ago, Alexios31 said:

Sigh. I’m new to the Sonic franchise. No need to laugh at me and make me feel uncomfortable for asking. 

Get out while you still can

[G.U.N. Commander Gogol]

Despite I really liked the game I can't help but to be afraid of how scarce resources Sega has actually. Too much of recycled and reused content, too little of actual creative process and work EVEN in comparison with fan-made indie like Mania - the game really feels like cashgrab on Sonic Team's last legs. 

The perspective looks woefully to say the least. 

[Marco9966]

15 hours ago, Alexios31 said:

Sigh. I’m new to the Sonic franchise. No need to laugh at me and make me feel uncomfortable for asking. 

http://sonic.wikia.com

Spend an hour browsing through this website

[Multikaris]

On 9/25/2018 at 12:08 AM, Myst said:

From a meeting held at Sonic Team headquarters..

 

 

Only written by Pontaff in the localization. Was done by Kishimoto, actually. And they were on a tight leash compared to before. You could have also brought up TSR and IDW, too.

[Alexios31]

5 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

http://sonic.wikia.com

Spend an hour browsing through this website

Thanks. I'm learning more and more each day.

[Shaun Shikeishuu]

My opinion hasn't really changed. Sometime they put out good games and then they put out games that disappoint. Guess I'll just keep hoping the next ones a winner. 

[Milo]

On 9/22/2018 at 6:32 AM, Lord-Dreamerz said:

As much as I would like to say Sonic Forces changed my opinion on Sonic Team to some degree... But who even are Sonic Team nowadays? Sonic Forces barely had any of the same staff as the previous games outside of a few common people we often see.  It's hard to put correct blame on a team that keeps changing it's staff.

That's not really true. A quick glance of Forces' credits  outside the most-cited examples (director, game planners/designers, producer, sound composer/sound director) compared to those from Lost World and Colors  does show several returning veteran staff from those titles--the art director, lead programmer, and quite a few handful of field and character artists and animators; among others. The changes in staff aren't as drastic as some are making it out to be.

Although I will say this--in comparison to those games, the core Sonic Team staff credited for Forces' production (re: not counting other credited departments such as musicians, QA, sound design, voice actors, movie/cutscene production, etc.) does seem to have a smaller number of staff.

[SKSpawn]

Meh, I enjoyed Sonic Forces.

Can Sonic Team do better? Of course! Is it the best Sonic game ever? Well, no, but it wasn't the worst either.

I don't know why Sonic Team seem incapable of making a true, triple-A 3D Sonic title that ticks all the boxes but I can enjoy what they put out as short bursts of fun, if nothing else.

[Dejimon11]

Puyo Puyo Tetris is probably the best game that Sonic Team has made in a long time. It proves to me that Sonic Team needs to take a long break from the franchise and give Sonic to another developer while they can work on other IPs like a new NiGHTS game or Somba De Amigo etc. 

[G.U.N. Commander Gogol]

On 9/28/2018 at 9:45 PM, SKSpawn said:

Meh, I enjoyed Sonic Forces.

Can Sonic Team do better? Of course! Is it the best Sonic game ever? Well, no, but it wasn't the worst either.

I don't know why Sonic Team seem incapable of making a true, triple-A 3D Sonic title that ticks all the boxes but I can enjoy what they put out as short bursts of fun, if nothing else.

Agreed. 

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

7 hours ago, SKSpawn said:

Meh, I enjoyed Sonic Forces.

Can Sonic Team do better? Of course! Is it the best Sonic game ever? Well, no, but it wasn't the worst either.

I don't know why Sonic Team seem incapable of making a true, triple-A 3D Sonic title that ticks all the boxes but I can enjoy what they put out as short bursts of fun, if nothing else.

Honestly, in spite of all my remarks about disappointment and expectations with being a long time fan and craving for sonic team to do better.....this is probably the most reasonable attitude for any fan to have.

[DabigRG]

After trying to think about it and then actually reading the title again, I'd say concerned and a little confused.