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Mountaindewandsprite

What are some missed opportunities in the Sonic franchise?

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4 hours ago, Scape said:

It gave Amy her hammer. Why could that be carried forward but nothing else? 

And if reception mattered to canon, Shadow wouldn't still have the black arms backstory.

 

I mean, it hasn't been brought up within the games since that game.

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13 hours ago, Rowl said:

It really seems for me, that Sonic characters are not meant to stay a recurring regulars. The characters feel more like characters from an RPG. Only meant to appear in their debut games, force a purpose in just this one game and than never meant to appear again.

Unfortunately, this is very true. It is true for particular characters like Knuckles, Shadow, and Silver, who were an important focus for one or two games but now seem like characters that are forced into games for fanservice.

8 hours ago, MadmanRB said:

Sometimes Canon can fuck up, and just because its canon doesnt mean it doesnt suck.

Sometimes its just best to say "fuck canon!"

Which is why I loved post-SGW Archie Sonic comics. They actually put more effort into the franchise than SEGA ever has.

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I was considering talking a little more on Sonic X, but I think that might be better for a later thing.

 

On 11/11/2018 at 2:14 PM, TAILS FOR SMASH ULTIMATE said:

 

. After that it got worse and worse and he just regressed and became super dependent rather than getting more independent like Luigi.

I seem to recall Shadow's game and 06 maintaining some of his capability for what little screentime he had.

On 11/11/2018 at 2:14 PM, TAILS FOR SMASH ULTIMATE said:



Custom character shoulda been magic based. At least then it would have covered new ground that wasn't stepping into someone else's territory. Gadget could have been Tails easily. They are so damn fixated on Tails and being the smart/gadget guy ad nauseum (Kinda like the fixation with Amy and her hammer) so might as well make a playstyle out of it. But instead was a literal self insert best friend of Sonic who took that very role. At least with magic he would have had his own thing. Could lead to a wide variety of platform abilities.

When Archie had Merlin Prower and introduced Magic to Tails. That coulda been a real cool and neat way of progression for him. Combining magic and technology. So much creative possibility....which was then thrown away. I think Merlina is the closest to magic we've had in the games and she was a one off. A shame. Magic just allows for endless possibility of creativity.

Yeah, it's funny how for all the mystical elements this series has, few of the characters dabble in outright magic and even then, most of them are either one-offs or don't go quite far enough.

 

Also, Miles was apparently being set up to help develop on that a little more.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I seem to recall Shadow's game and 06 maintaining some of his capability for what little screentime he had.

Yeah, it's funny how for all the mystical elements this series has, few of the characters dabble in outright magic and even then, most of them are either one-offs or don't go quite far enough.

 

Also, Miles was apparently being set up to help develop on that a little more.

I mean no one really was that good in 06. The things he did mostly weren't important...but he wasn't portrayed blatantly as lesser I guess. Not as in your face as it is today. I mean did he do anything? He tagged along but he just kinda seemed to be there....just like Knuckles and pretty much most of the Amigos.

I mean...MERLIN PROWER....MERLIN!!! That was a thing. I actually agreed with the evil Miles when he said the magic potential was being wasted. Cause it was XD.

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18 minutes ago, TAILS FOR SMASH ULTIMATE said:

I mean no one really was that good in 06. The things he did mostly weren't important...but he wasn't portrayed blatantly as lesser I guess. Not as in your face as it is today. I mean did he do anything? He tagged along but he just kinda seemed to be there....just like Knuckles and pretty much most of the Amigos.

He offers to act as a distraction against the oncoming Horde of Egg Gunners after escaping Dusty Desert so Sonic can get Elise to safety, accesses the computer Mephiles was using to get intel on what went wrong to cause Silver's future, goes to find Sonic when Eggman threatens to raze the city if Elise doesn't surrender, and helps collect one of the Emeralds at the end.

19 minutes ago, TAILS FOR SMASH ULTIMATE said:

 

I mean...MERLIN PROWER....MERLIN!!! That was a thing. I actually agreed with the evil Miles when he said the magic potential was being wasted. Cause it was XD.

Merlin was supposed to get either his own Universe arc or a backup arc dealing with becoming a Neo Walker, but SEGA apparently put that on hold.

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6 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

He offers to act as a distraction against the oncoming Horde of Egg Gunners after escaping Dusty Desert so Sonic can get Elise to safety, accesses the computer Mephiles was using to get intel on what went wrong to cause Silver's future, goes to find Sonic when Eggman threatens to raze the city if Elise doesn't surrender, and helps collect one of the Emeralds at the end.

Merlin was supposed to get either his own Universe arc or a backup arc dealing with becoming a Neo Walker, but SEGA apparently put that on hold.

Welp ya remember that game better than I do. Musta been wiped from my mind just like with the characters....

And then was buried alongside Archie.

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20 minutes ago, TAILS FOR SMASH ULTIMATE said:

Welp ya remember that game better than I do. Musta been wiped from my mind just like with the characters....

And then was buried alongside Archie.

He's only noticeable in so many points, so it wasn't that hard to recollect.

Or the Reboot at least.

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8 hours ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

Unfortunately, this is very true. It is true for particular characters like Knuckles, Shadow, and Silver, who were an important focus for one or two games but now seem like characters that are forced into games for fanservice.

Sonic Team makes their characters a bit to complex, which is the reason, why so many of them can only serve a purpose in one game, which is most of the time their debut game. Another issue I have with Sonic's cast is, that a lot of them are to familiar to each other. If you think about it, almost the entire cats are superhero like characters with a special ability that they use to fight against the main villain of the series. Kinda like Marvel's The Avengers, only that they share the same and only existing narrative.       

Sega kinda missed here a really big opportunity by giving each character a different role in this universe. So many of them (Knuckles, Shadow, Rouge, Blaze, Silver, Vector, Espio, Charmy, Ray, Mighty, Classic Sonic etc.) share just a way to similar role. This is the reason why I personally consider the Deadly Six as some of the better characters of the series. I mean sure, their are poorly written, but at least can serve a better purpose in the overall narrative compare to other characters, which their role can easily be casted by Sonic himself. 

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8 hours ago, Rowl said:

Sonic Team makes their characters a bit to complex, which is the reason, why so many of them can only serve a purpose in one game, which is most of the time their debut game.

That's makes a little too much sense.

8 hours ago, Rowl said:

 Another issue I have with Sonic's cast is, that a lot of them are to familiar to each other. If you think about it, almost the entire cats are superhero like characters with a special ability that they use to fight against the main villain of the series. Kinda like Marvel's The Avengers, only that they share the same and only existing narrative.       

 

Uh, familiar or similar?

8 hours ago, Rowl said:

 

Sega kinda missed here a really big opportunity by giving each character a different role in this universe. So many of them (Knuckles, Shadow, Rouge, Blaze, Silver, Vector, Espio, Charmy, Ray, Mighty, Classic Sonic etc.) share just a way to similar role. 

Uh, can you go a little more into what you mean here?

8 hours ago, Rowl said:

This is the reason why I personally consider the Deadly Six as some of the better characters of the series. I mean sure, their are poorly written, but at least can serve a better purpose in the overall narrative compare to other characters, which their role can easily be casted by Sonic himself. 

Speaking of which, yeah, they were definitely presented in a way that makes them more manageable, to boon or to ill.

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When I look at Sonic Adventure's story, I think a good plot is there, but marred with simplified broken storytelling and it didn't have to be.

What would it hurt to have had Knuckles have more significant reactions towards the flashbacks of his lost clan, even just more believable surprise than "Hmm....this is very strange..."

E-102 Gamma's story was good but I think it's a shame they didn't play his villain run more fully. Gamma does a little serving for Eggman but not a lot, and it also makes him a feel a bit too superfluous to the main story. He gets one emerald and then fights Sonic. Why didn't Eggman use him to help get the previous four, a consistent hinderance like Knuckles was?

Even Big and Amy could have been more innocuously important as comic relief campaigns, having SOME more major effect on the story without even realising it.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Uh, can you go a little more into what you mean here?

What I meant is, that almost all Sonic characters are technically just like Sonic himself. Action heroes with a special superpower that fight against the same enemy. If you compare their roles to those form other series like Mario or Banjo-Kzaooie, you will notice that their character's role are a bit ore variated compare to Sonic's cast.

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2 hours ago, Rowl said:

What I meant is, that almost all Sonic characters are technically just like Sonic himself. Action heroes with a special superpower that fight against the same enemy. If you compare their roles to those form other series like Mario or Banjo-Kzaooie, you will notice that their character's role are a bit ore variated compare to Sonic's cast.

Luigi, Toad, Toadette, and Nabbit from NSMB are technically just Mario with different attributes but with the same goal of saving Princess Peach.

Just like Tails, Knuckles, Mighty, and Ray in SM+ are just Sonic with different attributes but with the same goal of stopping Eggman.

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Generations and Lost World oddly seem to ignore building off the repercussions of Eggman's Interstellar Amusement Park and the events that took place there.

21 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

Luigi, Toad, Toadette, and Nabbit from NSMB are technically just Mario with different attributes but with the same goal of saving Princess Peach.

Just like Tails, Knuckles, Mighty, and Ray in SM+ are just Sonic with different attributes but with the same goal of stopping Eggman.

The distinction is likely that Toad, Toadette, Nabbit, and initially Knuckles had distinct roles before they got to that point.

Luigi, Tails, Might, and Ray, on the other hand, were specifically designed as extra playable characters in lieu/coordination with Mario/Sonic.

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On 11/12/2018 at 6:55 PM, Mountaindewandsprite said:

Unfortunately, this is very true. It is true for particular characters like Knuckles, Shadow, and Silver, who were an important focus for one or two games but now seem like characters that are forced into games for fanservice.

Takashi Yuda, the man who came up with Knuckles, said he didn't plan for him to be more than a supporting character. It's not hard to guess he was seen as a character for Sonic 3 that became adored by the fans so he got to stick around. REALLY stick around. I'm talking becoming one of the "Big 4."

 

16 hours ago, Rowl said:

Sonic Team makes their characters a bit to complex, which is the reason, why so many of them can only serve a purpose in one game, which is most of the time their debut game. Another issue I have with Sonic's cast is, that a lot of them are to familiar to each other. If you think about it, almost the entire cats are superhero like characters with a special ability that they use to fight against the main villain of the series. Kinda like Marvel's The Avengers, only that they share the same and only existing narrative.       

Sega kinda missed here a really big opportunity by giving each character a different role in this universe. So many of them (Knuckles, Shadow, Rouge, Blaze, Silver, Vector, Espio, Charmy, Ray, Mighty, Classic Sonic etc.) share just a way to similar role. This is the reason why I personally consider the Deadly Six as some of the better characters of the series. I mean sure, their are poorly written, but at least can serve a better purpose in the overall narrative compare to other characters, which their role can easily be casted by Sonic himself. 

More or less. Knuckles, Blaze, Shadow, Chaotix. All can easily be heroes with their own stories. They did this in the comics with Knuckles being put with the Chaotix in their own slice of the world set in Angel Island.

2 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

Luigi, Toad, Toadette, and Nabbit from NSMB are technically just Mario with different attributes but with the same goal of saving Princess Peach.

Just like Tails, Knuckles, Mighty, and Ray in SM+ are just Sonic with different attributes but with the same goal of stopping Eggman.

I mean, Luigi has already gotten his own games and games where he's more strongly shown as Mario's co-star. Toad and Toadette were always just sidekicks/helpers. Let's not forget how Donkey Kong, Wario, Peach, and even Bowser have been the protagonists of their own games (or at least a co-protagonist in Bowser's case).

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6 minutes ago, Almar said:

Takashi Yuda, the man who came up with Knuckles, said he didn't plan for him to be more than a supporting character. It's not hard to guess he was seen as a character for Sonic 3 that became adored by the fans so he got to stick around. REALLY stick around. I'm talking becoming one of the "Big 4."

 

That seems a tad contradictory.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Almar said:

More or less. Knuckles, Blaze, Shadow, Chaotix. All can easily be heroes with their own stories. They did this in the comics with Knuckles being put with the Chaotic in their own slice of the world set in Angel Island.

Yes. In comic form, those characters can work. But in a video game, where you can only focus on one story at the time, you kinda need only one maybe two important characters.

1 hour ago, Sonictrainer said:

Luigi, Toad, Toadette, and Nabbit from NSMB are technically just Mario with different attributes but with the same goal of saving Princess Peach.

Sure. But my point is, that all of the serve still a different role in the world of Mario. Luigi is Mario's brother, Toad is a sidekick and servant for Peach and Toadette is Toads sister I think...

With Sonic it is a bit more complicated. Shadow is a superhero(anti-hero that wants to stop the bad guy, Blaze a heroine that wants to stop the bad guy, same with Silver, and Classic Sonic, Mighty, Ray, and Rouge, and Team Chaotix etc. Those characters do not really have a clear role in this world. Amy and Tails have one, Knuckles maybe to, I'm not sure if the Master Emerald is still a thing in the modern time era, Metal-Sonic, Orbot, Cubot, Eggman, even the Elise and Deadly Six... but most of Sonic's other friends.... not really. This is kinda the problem I have with them. It seems the creators wanted them to be just like Sonic, even thought this series is good enough with only one.    

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2 hours ago, Rowl said:

Yes. In comic form, those characters can work. But in a video game, where you can only focus on one story at the time, you kinda need only one maybe two important characters.

Sure. But my point is, that all of the serve still a different role in the world of Mario. Luigi is Mario's brother, Toad is a sidekick and servant for Peach and Toadette is Toads sister I think...

With Sonic it is a bit more complicated. Shadow is a superhero(anti-hero that wants to stop the bad guy, Blaze a heroine that wants to stop the bad guy, same with Silver, and Classic Sonic, Mighty, Ray, and Rouge, and Team Chaotix etc. Those characters do not really have a clear role in this world. Amy and Tails have one, Knuckles maybe to, I'm not sure if the Master Emerald is still a thing in the modern time era, Metal-Sonic, Orbot, Cubot, Eggman, even the Elise and Deadly Six... but most of Sonic's other friends.... not really. This is kinda the problem I have with them. It seems the creators wanted them to be just like Sonic, even thought this series is good enough with only one.    

So do the other sonic characters! And yes, Mario, just like Sonic, has some totally pointless characters too. 

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46 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

So do the other sonic characters! And yes, Mario, just like Sonic, has some totally pointless characters too. 

Like..?

2 hours ago, Rowl said:

 

With Sonic it is a bit more complicated. Shadow is a superhero(anti-hero that wants to stop the bad guy, 

You wanna doublecheck that?

 

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Kind of a backtrack here since I've been off for a couple of days, but just wanted to mention on the magic thing involving Amy is that with the Sonic the Fighters examples posted earlier that asides from her ability to spontaneously summon random objects being followed up on to an extent in Battle where she is even able to summon an imaginary Sonic, her stage is a flying carpet, a quintessential magic item. Of course now I have a new head cannon that is calling me to the head cannon thread...

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7 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

It’s only an opinion that I think characters like Cubot are totally useless.

I meant in regards to Mario.

4 hours ago, Almar said:

Orbit and Cubot's just an attempt to stick a Scratch and Grounder into Game!Sonic.

Orbot(or rather SA-55) was there to give Eggman someone to talk to during his scenes.

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5 hours ago, DabigRG said:

I meant in regards to Mario.

Orbot(or rather SA-55) was there to give Eggman someone to talk to during his scenes.

Characters like Pink Gold Peach, mainly.

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35 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Characters like Pink Gold Peach, mainly.

Eh, all they'd need to do is put her in a different game as a somewhat notable boss character to fix that.

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