What are some missed opportunities in the Sonic franchise?

[TideKai]

2 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

The cool thing about sharing ideas like this is even if it can't change what has already happened it does help us develop our own creative abilities which can always help us later in life. And in the case of Sonic and his missed opportunities, the potential that exists within them to tell and share ideas that for their own amazing stories is part of what I love about the franchise and makes interacting with the fans so rewarding. Sharing your ideas which hit the right notes for me is just an extra special treat, so getting to experience that is something wonderful in my opinion. thank you soo much for sharing as I love what you suggested.

The franchise may have a lot of missed opportunities but how those missed opportunities stimulate our imaginations is something spectacularly valuable to me. Now if only those missed opportunities weren't so frequently paired with everything being mishandled to some degree.

That's true! Whether anything happens from my ideas or not, it's always fun to discuss and imagine. And I think it's always nice to be inspired by something. Even if we don't necessarily like a game, it's always nice when it makes us discuss about creative ideas, just like you said. 

It's not a problem, and thank you for being such a sweet person. Happy holidays to you!

[Sonic Fan J]

Happy Holidays to you as well @TideKai!

[___-_]

A big one for me personally: No online / lack of multiplayer platform racing modes in general.

I always felt like mainline Sonic games with some focus on 2P racer modes were soooo untapped with this franchise. SA2B's 2P mode was something I remember being some of the most fun times I've had growing up while gaming. I definitely had a whole bunch of friends who had a blast with the racing mode in particular, too, even with it being kinda unbalanced. It was just pure fun and something me and my group always went back to at the end of the day.

Back before when Mania came out and it was previewing the 2P mode, my hype went through the roof... but then when I found out that it actually didn't have online at all, it literally and sadly killed all the hype I had for that mode and never touched it once I got the game (Because I'm grown now, and sitting around to play Sonic games with friends and family is not something that happens nearly as often anymore). I'm not even sure If other people really touch that mode as well (My only source being Youtube, honestly), which is a shame. I bet you all 7 Chaos Emeralds AND 50 rings if Mania had online connectivity, especially with Mania Plus coming out with 4P mode, that that mode would've had a lot of traffic towards its way. I know I sure would've been playing the hell out of it.

Idk. I just feel like they really could have something there if they put effort onto that front. I mean, they've pretty much got everything in place already. They got the wide array of characters, the many power ups and zones to choose from. The games at their core in general revels in the fact that the player should be replaying the levels many times over to better understand the level design more to get faster times, making it inherently competitive, and what better way is there to show your understanding and how fast you can beat stages than by racing with other people?

Idk. I wish they get up on that someday. 

 

[Sonic Fan J]

Have recently been thinking about the Square RPG Xenogears as well as Infinite and the revamped Metal Sonic boss fight in Mania. That got me thinking that it's such a shame that pretty much all of the villains were just illusions as it would have been cool to have Infinite show up ala Grahf whenever it appeared you defeated one of them and used the Phantom Ruby to give then a power up.

[DabigRG]

The villain Team Up in Forces. Sweet salmonella, the villain Team up in Forces.

 

[Splash the Otter]

The Deadly Six hijacking the Egg Empire instead of having their own army of evil yokai.

[DabigRG]

50 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

The Deadly Six hijacking the Egg Empire instead of having their own army of evil yokai.

Are they even an army though?

Wanna go more into that?

[Splash the Otter]

35 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Are they even an army though?

Wanna go more into that?

I mean that the Deadly Six should have commanded an army of yokai instead of stealing Eggman's robots. I think it would have made them more interesting.

[DabigRG]

8 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

I mean that the Deadly Six should have commanded an army of yokai instead of stealing Eggman's robots. I think it would have made them more interesting.

Oh, I gotcha.

Honestly, the relationship between them and the rest of Zeti kinda is something I kinda hope they cover at some point, if the opportunity arises. There's a number of possibilities.

Also, they wouldn't exactly be the Deadly Six then, but details.

[Semi-colon e]

It's almost unfair to have this thread since Sonic is full of missed opportunities. Then again, it's kind of unfair to bash something because of what it isn't rather than what it is. Anyone can imagine something awesome in their head (that is usually subjective anyway) so nothing would ever live up to your own internal hype. But there are some things that I feel were missed opportunities.

The whole point of the series is that it's Sonic vs Eggman. The fact Sonic never has a boss fight against Eggman in Adventure 2 is really jarring. From Eggman's side, it would have been a more interesting boss than any of his existing ones, especially his version of the Egg Golem fight.

Mephiles was also completely wasted. He was nearly cool but his plan made no sense. Also Sonic never engages with Mephiles directly, and since Mephiles is the main villain of the story while Sonic is supposed to be the main character, it's extremely stupid. Sonic already does extremely little in 06 as it is. Mephiles was also created a game too late - an evil Shadow type character trying to tempt Shadow back to darkness would have been a way better plot point for Shadow's actual game than Black Doom ever was.

2D in 3D games should have stopped after Generations, or even Colours. Colours had mostly 2D due to the wisps and Generations was mostly paying homage to the Unleashed formula (though having 2D while Classic Sonic is in the game is kind of pushing it but eh), but there's no reason why Lost World had to have 2D sections. None whatsoever. It really is time we had fully 3D games. Games like Adventure 1 and even a fair amount of Generations show that it's clearly possible to have intricate 3D level design. The real issue however is that Sonic Team never sticks with anything for more than a couple of games so they don't develop anything. Right down to plot and settings unless they're rehashing old stuff since they don't seem to do anything original anymore.

[Rowl]

16 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

The Deadly Six hijacking the Egg Empire instead of having their own army of evil yokai.

Is it official that they are based on yokais?

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Rowl said:

Is it official that they are based on yokais?

Yes, they were explicitly based Oni with designs that spoke for their personalities. And Oni are a common type of Yokai.

[Multikaris]

18 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

I mean that the Deadly Six should have commanded an army of yokai instead of stealing Eggman's robots. I think it would have made them more interesting.

Sort of like Ninja Sentai Kakuranger, then. Maybe have each be a different type of yokai, rather than them all as just oni? Zavok could have been more based on Shuten-Doji, too. They could try convincing the other yokai-like characters to join them, they could be like Shinkenger and try transforming people into horrific yokai, they could even go beyond yokai like Goseiger did.

[Mr Loopone]

Sonic Spinball is one of the earliest missed opportunities. It is something that writes itself as in the gameplay of the Sonic stages mixed with pinball with the flippers and many of the features of pinball. Sonic 2 was praised for Casino Night.

The problem was that it was handed off to developers that weren't suitable for the job. Not to bash the programmers because they did a great job with the PGA Tour Golf series and the RoadBlasters port but going from one style of gameplay to one where they don't have experience in just shows. It is like getting someone who is used to 3D games to make a 2D physics based game that exactly what this is. It was slow like 30fps, it was clunky to control and even the STI side where the music and graphics lie felt unsuitable. It was a grungy look, music was well people mock the options theme and when it tries like Lava Powerhouse or the Machine, it still feels flat. It didn't feel like pinball or Sonic. Pinball is fast, it is eyepopping by its lights, colours and artwork and around that era had some energetic music rather like these. Rather like Sonic back then.

It also feel didn't do enough of the pinball side as in no multiball or the enough of the Sonic styled gameplay around the tables. Probably had Yuji Naka developed the game or cutting the ego aside got someone to do it in the Sonic 2 engine, it would be a classic worth playing. As it is though, a massive missed opportunity.

While it did get a more traditional pinball game in the form of Sonic Pinball Party, it was just too little too late as it was poorly marketed, a handheld spinoff that is forgotten and was also mysteriously delayed in Europe. Positively it felt like pinball, the pinball and Sonic mix were also done better but it was also a Sonic Team crossover too with other series. Sadly it didn't get another chance as it is a combination that worked well had it been done right.

[Multikaris]

On 2/25/2019 at 12:50 PM, Mr Loopone said:

Sonic Spinball is one of the earliest missed opportunities. It is something that writes itself as in the gameplay of the Sonic stages mixed with pinball with the flippers and many of the features of pinball. Sonic 2 was praised for Casino Night.

The problem was that it was handed off to developers that weren't suitable for the job. Not to bash the programmers because they did a great job with the PGA Tour Golf series and the RoadBlasters port but going from one style of gameplay to one where they don't have experience in just shows. It is like getting someone who is used to 3D games to make a 2D physics based game that exactly what this is. It was slow like 30fps, it was clunky to control and even the STI side where the music and graphics lie felt unsuitable. It was a grungy look, music was well people mock the options theme and when it tries like Lava Powerhouse or the Machine, it still feels flat. It didn't feel like pinball or Sonic. Pinball is fast, it is eyepopping by its lights, colours and artwork and around that era had some energetic music rather like these. Rather like Sonic back then.

It also feel didn't do enough of the pinball side as in no multiball or the enough of the Sonic styled gameplay around the tables. Probably had Yuji Naka developed the game or cutting the ego aside got someone to do it in the Sonic 2 engine, it would be a classic worth playing. As it is though, a massive missed opportunity.

While it did get a more traditional pinball game in the form of Sonic Pinball Party, it was just too little too late as it was poorly marketed, a handheld spinoff that is forgotten and was also mysteriously delayed in Europe. Positively it felt like pinball, the pinball and Sonic mix were also done better but it was also a Sonic Team crossover too with other series. Sadly it didn't get another chance as it is a combination that worked well had it been done right.

Never heard of Alien Crush? I’m pretty sure the “Crush” series were what they were aiming for. Except this time with a sort of eco-friendly/technological horror. But I agree a few more conventionally bright areas would have been nice, perhaps also to increase the length of the game. Spinball’s really the first game in Shadow’s sort of direction. Not enough bright levels to balance out the rest. Pinball Party is leaning more in Lost World’s direction, but not too much as to make the game not fun anymore. Though I agree more Sonic Team boards could work. A Comix Zone board as a tribute to the original game and its developers would have worked well, along with Ristar, Puyo Puyo, etc. 

[Despatche]

Funny someone talked about the pinball games, because the greatest missed opportunity in this series by far is not having a real pinball table when pinball was sort of a thing. Sega even had a pinball division for a few years! A Sonic pinball would have been easy money, but it never happened. Mario had two, but the character partially based on pinball itself had zero. Honestly it's kind of a crime.

Something not as great: Mania really should have introduced more than just the Drop Dash, a move mostly for speedrunning that only Sonic can use anyway. No new shields? No new type of item altogether? I've heard people say that Time Twisted is as interesting as Mania simply for things like how it handles time travel and the new shields. It might not be 100% balanced all the time, but Sonic shields aren't exactly balanced to begin with. Plus did right by bringing back Mighty and Ray in a big way, though Ray is sort of a cross between Tails and Knuckles as is.

(Ray's Air Glide reminds me way too much of the totally overpowered Super Mario World Cape for my taste. Bubsy has that too, and it's just as ridiculous. Get a good jump, fly over the level, it's all fun and games until that's all the game boils down to...)

[DabigRG]

So a sorta recent review on Sonic Forces popped up on my home page and during the prelude of the possibilities implied by the game's marketing, the Youtuber made an interesting point.What if the game had essentially been a spiritual successor to Sonic Adventure 2, with it's Hero Side and Dark Side stories; or better yet, how Sonic Riders and Zero Gravity used the Babylon Story to explain the backstory of the story's focus? This in turn would've made the game have a main story through The Resistance's fight to take back their world and an Eggman Empire campaign that could've followed the development of the duplicated Phantom Ruby protoypes, the enmeshing of [the real] Shadow and Zavok, and the Rebirth of Infinite.

[DabigRG]

Not sure how I should actually do this substantially, but Zavok in Team Sonic Racing.

[DabigRG]

5 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Not sure how I should actually do this substantially, but Zavok in Team Sonic Racing.

Here's the extended writeup I've done.

Spoiler

Alrighty, let's talk about the Master of Chaos.

 

What happened here? Why was it allowed to? How did anyone not think to prevent this opportunity from getting by? Is everything alright, Sonic Team? Not intending to be rude, I just thought I should check. On the real though, I can’t help but find this whole thing confounding.

 

Zavok is one of the latest recurring characters and one of the very few that remains a villain—a rare combo. He’s gone from what one might assume to be another villain of the week to one of the go to choices for filling out a character roster. From an in house standpoint, he is a serious exception to what seemed like pretty consistent habits & rules and may in fact be particularly favored by someone [else] important. Though he and his group may not be that well-regarded out of house, but then that may just add to it depending on your perspective. As does the fact that he’s otherwise been segregated from his original context for the most part—a minor breakout character, if you will.

And yet while they seem insist on having him show up a lot as of a late, they also seem bizarrely averse to actually writing much for him. We kinda sorta saw a indirect bout of that in Forces, where in spite being a proper role in the story, notable interaction, a boss fight, a surprisingly good dubstep remix, and even dialogue (that’s more impressive in context), he was still only in as a Phantom Ruby clone despite his overall status and those other factoids meaning he could’ve easily just been there. Come to think of it, a lot of his subsequent appearances outside of maybe Runners tend to have him as a side thing that doesn’t really affect much and/or is an ally of convenience—looping back into what makes him such an outlier.

Which leads us here to Team Sonic Racing, the most recent [spinoff] game. This game’sThe story mode largely deals with each of the hero teams trying to wrap their heads around the suspicious intentions of Dodon Pa and Eggman and with teamwork being a big theme of the game, one would naturally assume this would each of the teams interacting and working together interdependently. The roster is of course comprised of five teams, each with a Speed, Technique, and Power type character. For Team Eggman, they once again went with Zavok due to the extra factors of his [vague/informed] Arrogant Kung-Fu Guy trope and big meaty claws. However, both he and Vector are relatively out of place among Eggman&Metal and Silver&Blaze, respectively. In Zavok’s case, not only does he have little connection to Eggman—he outright hates him about as much as Sonic due to being abused and enslaved by him in his debut. And yet, the two were lumped together here for the sake of convenience and would have to learn to work together in order to accomplish their goal(s) within Dodon Pa’s terms.

 

To get to the point, this game was an opportunity for more to be done with Zavok as a character. While I’m not sure it’s fair to call him in a particular a flat character, it is common to think that the Deadly Six Zeti weren’t given much exposition and are overall underdeveloped. In Zavok’s case, he has a clear role as their leader & Master Zik’s [last?] disciple and his general personality as a calm & patient, yet cruel and proud warrior is relatively established, but he could still use more exploration. And interacting with not only Eggman and Sonic, but the rest of the recurring cast should’ve been a great way to do that. Especially given this is a freaking kart racer, a pretty low key setup where there’s little risk and the cutscenes are voiced over static images that don't have to worry about action setpieces and extensive choreography (although that last bit definitely would’ve been appreciated).

But he ultimately gets relatively little out of this appearance. Not only does it seem like another case where anyone can say that and a situation where that would logically be expected, but it’s also an instance where they practically teased it with other things:

·         Big the Cat has not only how many mentions of Froggy and fishing, but also a simple-minded insight that makes him notice things the other characters overlook in their scrutiny.

·         Vector uses his love of money as a cover for investigating Dodon Pa’s background and works in tandem with other sources including Tails, who hired(?) him in the first place.

·         Blaze received her invitation across her dimension, has a pleasant relationship with Silver, and casually mentions that one of her duties as  princess(Queen?) equates to potentially being lied to everyday, which means she’s learned to be able to be wary of people’s motives.

·         Silver received his invitation 200(dropped zero?) years in the future, has an interaction with Sonic where his wet eared demeanor causes him to miss the point of trash talk, and even has hints of precognition that Blaze’s suggests could be the result of his travels through time.

·         Omochao, who comes some of the same problems and a few of their own, picks up on telemetric signals from Dodon Pa likely due to being a robot & occasional broadcaster themselves and helps Silver keep a look out for trouble by pointing out that the Chao in the stands are watching everything.

·         Cubot, despite not even being involved with the race, mentions the fact that he actually likes Eggman despite the latter being annoyed by him and feels little jealous when he chooses to hang with other robots.

·         Espio and Charmy, who don’t even appear, not only get asked about by Knuckles, but actually off investigating Dodon Pa’s background while Vector stays close to Dodon Pa himself.

And yet Zavok got practically none of that-- there’s practically no explanation of who he is and where he comes from(again), he doesn’t really interact with anyone besides Eggman and maybe Sonic at one point(again), his personal motivation for bothering with this race is never really established(again-ish), and he doesn’t even get to talk much with less than 20 fairly terse lines. He’s just here because Eggman “hired” him to look for the Ultimate Energy Engine, sticks around to race after being spotted on Eggman’s lofty suggestion, and just disappeared in the ending. They might as well have used Zomom or some other antagonist instead—at least the former actually is a strong simpleton himself.

What makes this extra weird, aside from the littlest bit of flavor text he’s given in outside the game, is that they actually build him up before he’s introduced to the plot—unlike Team Dark and especially Metal, who just show up not long after Dodon Pa announces Eggman joining the races and get addressed afterwards. Technically, he’s first hinted at when Silver sensed something bad about to happen, but his actual role first comes into play when Eggman finishes communicating with an operative he has sent data(?) to complete his mission. Admittedly, there wasn’t much guessing room with this game’s roster, but you’d be forgiven for thinking it must be another character. Not too long afterwards, Big notices him hiding in the shadows, as well as a cloud that looks like Froggy—we’ll come back to this later, believe it or not. But he’s finally revealed when, just as Silver inquired of Omochao, the Chao in the stands spot him in the Hidden Volcano and freak out. Now I actually like this gradually set up in theory, it ultimately goes unfulfilled due to how he is implemented into the rest of the plot—or rather, how he’s not.

First of all, there’s that afformentioned flavor text that’s from both his character bio for this game and a Japanese magazine. The former explains that he occasionally comes down from the Lost Hex to battle Sonic and his friends whenever the opportunity arises, while the latter implied that he was getting involved in the story for his own reasons; these two things never really come into play and was straight up suka, respectively. Which is a shame considering it would’ve been perfect for how this story plays out anyway: he could’ve showed up looking to throw down with Sonic, if not straight up being brought there by Dodon Pa, acted as a boss initially separate from Eggman, aside from maybe hijacking some Egg Pawns to use as minions, and gradually be forced to race cooperatively alongside Eggman leading up to the finale.  

Second is the neglect to include his motivation for getting involved. So Eggman hired him to look for the look for the Ultimate Energy Engine using information he sent him and Zavok accepted this mission. Why? How? …With what? They don’t really state what made Zavok an ideal choice for an operative on this since its essentially corporate espionage, cunning be damned. I also don’t really see how doing this task could benefit him, nevermind why he’d take interest in the first place. And given that he hates Eggman anyway, there’s never any indication that he’s bothering for any misguided or ulterior motive, like that Eggman’s identity was masked from his end of things or that he was planning on screwing him over once the mission was accomplished.

Third is his ultimate lack of impact on the story and how it’s told following his introduction. Upon being discovered, Eggman simply tells him that he might as well race with his team since he’s here in an attempt to play off their current alliance. And following this race in Hidden Volcano, the heroes start to get worried due to how intense the races were getting in conjunction with his competing. Yet Dodon Pa never pays him any mind; he just let’s this happen without a comment on how this “deadly” gentleman is a welcome addition (“You know what they say, the more the merrier!”) or query of what the hell a spiky red Zeti is doing there. And he just quietly races alongside Omega in the “oh yeah, these guys are here” category with only an occasional peep had with Eggman. In fact, the only thing he actually does is kidnap Dodon Pa at Eggman’s suggestion, which Metal Sonic probably could’ve done anyway.

Oh and as an addendum of a fourth point, let’s pull the pin out of that one point of buildup with a seemingly random detail I singled out earlier—the Froggy Cloud. His hiding in the shadows coincides with this alleged cumulous and his leaving after that race also saw it disappear, which ends up distracting Big from properly getting his presence across to Amy. While the obvious takeaway to this is “Lol, Big is Dumb,” I couldn’t help but notice that they appear and disappear about the same time. And with Big reinforcing this when Zavok is found out, it makes me wonder if that was supposed to be important to what Zavok was doing. Now obviously Zavok displayed nothing like this in Lost World, but it could be still some baroque Zeti mysticism and it’s not like characters showcasing new powers is that all that uncommon. Ain’t that right Amy?

And last but certainly not least, we arrive at the most basic, yet important element to any character: his characterization. In simultaneous conjunction and summation with all the other points, this game mostly fails to expand on and/or utilize Zavok as a character despite the fertile opportunities to do so. Again, he rarely says anything, interacts with anyone, and doesn’t do much to stand out as a villain or as just a guy. I seem to recall from the Olympic Games that he apparently cherishes an opportunity to hone his skills, perhaps as a reflection of him being the Zeti’s strongest warrior and Master Zik’s student. Perhaps in addition to whatever malicious intent he might’ve brought to the track, he could also take a genuine in learning to drive and stand a chance of besting Sonic at something; according to Eggman, he can’t drive for shit(which is funny considering the final map). I will say though that there are two minor take aways with what dialogue he has after he loses some races. He says that he can respect how strong their opponents are, only getting angry when Eggman calls him weak(“Zavok is Mighty!”). Another prior to the final map, Eggman mentions that kidnapping Dodon Pa is a chance for Zavok to “regain his honor.” I’m not sure what that last one’s about, but I guess they can be a nod to his martial artist motif and a hint of Blue and Orange Morality among Zeti.

As far as interaction goes, he missed the chance to converse and snark with thirteen other racers, plus Dodon Pa, Orbot, Cubot, and maybe even Metal Sonic. He mostly just speaks to Eggman and even then, it’s mostly in response with all but one instance of hostility or rather retort; compare this to Lost World, where his introduction alone has him stoically listen to the doctor’s boasting before breaking the silence with a sarcastic compliment to amuse himself. Some of the more notable dynamics they could’ve went with are:

·         Easily his most notable dynamic aside from Master Zik, Zavok and Eggman have an enmity with each other for enslaving his race and misusing his invention to destroy Sonic’s World in retaliation, respective. When I think of them being forced to compete together, I would imagine there’d be a fair degree of arguing, backhanded comments, and compromised stalemates between them.

·         With Orbot and Cubot chiming in from the Final Fortress(did it need to be called that, btw?), Zavok could’ve commented on how even Eggman’s lackies find him ridiculous, though some tested patience with their own foolishness is something he can admittedly relate to with the likes of Zazz and Zeena.

·         Learning to drive a racecar himself, the sheer competitiveness could’ve been one of the only things he and Sonic share. All the more reason to win.

·         When it comes to Dodon Pa, him joining the competition would make sense due to his own underlying sadism potentially making things more thrilling and yield more variable results. It could’ve also been a chance for both his eloquent and manipulative side to be shown, genuinely holding an charming conversation with him in order to get the Tanuki to give him free reign to crush the Mobians.

·         Once he joined the races on Eggman’s team, Knuckles in particular seemed alarmed. This could’ve been a sign that Zavok nearly tossed him over before, enough for Knuckles to consider him enough of a threat to not fool around with. Their superficially comparable tempers and homelands could’ve also been a talking point, which would likely just make Knuckles angrier.

·         Blaze immediately judging Dodon Pa on being a Tanuki is either suggestive of being well-versed with Yokai or Fantanstic Racism, but given that the Deadly Six are based on(and in the Japanese version, more or less are)Oni, perhaps this another area where she could’ve gotten involved. In fact, Blaze is another character I could see having some of the more interesting conflicts with him, given their similar temperaments.

·         And with the Zeti’s innate ability to manipulate electromagnetic fields, it would’ve been really interesting if this enabled Zavok the ability to communicate with and/or influence Metal Sonic as a second chance from Forces.

You know, it’s so weird to say that Zavok’s presence in this game and it’s story was once again one of the things that piqued my curiosity the most. Call it a bit of Bile Fascination at this point if it makes sense, but SonicTeam keeps bringing this guy back against all of their prior odds. And that, along with his contrast to Eggman, ironically makes him interesting. He’s not even my favorite Zeti—I like Zor, Zazz, and maybe Master Zik more, but this guy in particular has been so weird if muddled that it kinda gets your attention. And this game was a chance for them to not only capitalize on all that, but show why he’s worthy of being taken seriously and cared about.

What an egregious waste—something Zavok himself despises.

 

Zavok has a ponytail and a convertible. He's clearly going through a mid-life crisis

 

 

[DabigRG]

Amy and Cream's first meeting

As we know, Cream was initially conceptualized as Amy's answer to Tails--a friend, sidekick, and possible ward. While some rumors suggest Sonic X was the inciting incident, it is more accepted that Heroes was her intended debut due to it's Team Mechanic and Amy's increasing trend towards becoming a heroine in her own right. Of course, due to a number of factors and details, this dynamic didn't really take hold despite receiving callbacks from time to time. Cream ended up feeling more like her own thing, even establishing other bonds with characters like Blaze and amassing a bit of a supporting cast of her own, but never really got much focus as a character and was still somewhat tethered to her intended role.

I think part of the reason Cream never really settled very comfortably into the role of Amy's sidekick despite that allegedly being the reason for her creation is because there was no [onscreen?] inciting point for their relationship. Their first meeting was reserved as a brief summary for the manual of Heroes rather than the game proper, which starts in media res with them and Big hanging on the beach for whatever reason--unlike every other team. And due to a combination of their connection being based more on Amy's general compassion and Team's Rose's storytelling being pretty juvenile even for Heroes, the two didn't really establish much of a dynamic--in fact, I recall Cream having more chemistry with Big than either had with Amy.

Cream's altered introduction as far as the series goes may have also played a tangential part. When Sonic Advance 1 was a success and it was apparently relatively brisk to produce a sequel, it's sequel saw the decision to formally introduce Cream ahead of schedule to help give the game something fresh compared to it's predecessor. Now to be fair, I can appreciate Sonic Advance 2 doing this even without ever playing it due to representing Cream's vibe of fun/versatility as well as giving her a parent and/or family member in Vanilla, which most other characters old or new lack. But it is a bit of a shame that for better or worse, the stories of those games were pretty light to the point of not being able to do much with this otherwise; that's of course ignoring how Amy herself had no part in that plot, with the closest story being potentially held captive by the rebuilt ZERO.   

However, I think this is a case where a triage was possible and you could make cream out of spilled milk. Amy was a admirer who felt fated to be with Sonic and so took it upon herself to take action to earn his respect; Cream was a sheltered kid who was abducted alongside her mother by Eggman and decided she wouldn't stand by while her family remains captive. Both are girls who encountered Sonic the Hedgehog one dangerous day and it helped change how they handle themselves about life.

 

This, combined with the lines alluding to the fact that Team Rose was gonna be Cream's first big foray into adventure, could've fell in line to give them another common talking point. Both met Sonic first under different circumstances before later meeting each other. They could've compared their own first encounters with Sonic, how it affected them, and how what they each learned then is affecting their actions now. It'd give them something else to bond over and could play into their disbelief at his supposed actions.

[DabigRG]

When it comes to considering the polarizing nature of the story within Sonic Lost World,  Master Zik is a walking embodiment of how it felt like it should've had more to it.

The Deadly Six clearly seemed like an effort to create tongue-in-cheek, yet formidable villains that would be manageable enough to recur with their own unique brand(s) of villainy. Not to mention that with what their debut game was called, one would kinda expect a story about discovering some new locales and characters that have their own sense of mythos to be explored. And yet, they ended up primarily feeling like just marketing friendly baddies as well as open showcases of some of Misters Pontac and Graff's shortcomings in writing for this series.

While I suppose there's some truth to them primarily being archetypical and little else, whether in temperament or in role, they still possessed the outline of memorable characters and had some aspects that show evidence of that potential. Master Zik in particular always stood out to me as being a walking indication of some deeper context behind them. Among the Six, he's the one who gives the most backstory and perhaps even some nuance to the group itself just by existing. There's some other little details that could arguably make him the most varied/rounded of three, but that's somewhat up in the air.

Once being regarded as "the strongest warrior" among them,  he founded the group many years(?) ago and trained it's current leader Zavok as his last disciple before going into semi-retirement. As a race/species, the demon-like Zeti seem to be a  fairly long-living ones. And while much of the Clique is over 100 years old, Master Zik himself has easily the widest gap at 1,036. This makes him easily the one oldest living characters among the cast, likely only being beat out by other immortal beings. And just as age is often valued as an accumulation for wisdom, it is also pays the way for the recounting of records.

While Zavok was the Zeti leading the Deadly Six in bringing the meat of the plot, Master Zik could've been the one providing some of the backbone that comes with its setting. Since both the Lost Hex and it's denizens seem to have their share of history, it would've been nice to have one of them help provide it's backstory and exposition throughout the adventure. Zik has no doubt experienced more than his share of battles, seen much of his home's attractions, and taken note of the minutiae behind them, so he's a no-brainer for a lot of that. This would also help further set the tone for his interactions with Sonic, who is a determined newcomer to the floating continent.

 

 

 

[Splash the Otter]

Someone else has probably said it already, but not having more characters (especially Infinite) in Team Sonic Racing.

Here's what the roster could have been:

Spoiler

 

[DabigRG]

Gonna quote this here

On 1/22/2019 at 7:21 PM, DabigRG said:

So not really something I'd change so much as a thought that occurred to me during a post for the questions thread: why does the Rabbit Family and their Chao live alone out in a prairie?

Perhaps as another element shared with Tails, Cream's unusually large ears could cause her to be rejected or outright ostracized by others--or at least an innate fear of her not being accepted by others within Vanilla.

To which end, she built her cottage out in Neo Green Hill Zone, which is a fair distance away from other dwellings, to delay her daughter from having to face being judged solely for her abnormal appearance.

And why did she raise Cream to always be polite and ladylike? So that if she's ever a victim of aversion once she has to face the outside world, she can at least have a chance of winning them over with the conduct of her character.

 

 

as preparation for a similar idea.

On 6/15/2019 at 6:55 PM, Splash the Otter said:

Someone else has probably said it already, but not having more characters (especially Infinite) in Team Sonic Racing.

Here's what the roster could have been:

  Hide contents

 

Not sure about Buddy getting in any more than Infinite, but the rest is neat/appropriate enough.

[BaronGrackle]

Today I reflected on how much more I would've enjoyed Sonic Forces cutscenes/story if Infinite the Jackal had been completely replaced by Heavy Magician, with identical powers.

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, BaronGrackle said:

Today I reflected on how much more I would've enjoyed Sonic Forces cutscenes/story if Infinite the Jackal had been completely replaced by Heavy Magician, with identical powers.

Solo...a straight forward shapeshifter?