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Marco9966

Where do you think Shadow was during the 6 months of Sonic Forces?

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A point that was never addressed and was so frustrating is where was Shadow during these 6 months before magically appearing and beating his clone in front of Sonic. HOW CONVENIENT AND LAZY WRITING.

So I want to know what you guys think happened to him, or where he was during these 6 months.

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1 minute ago, DiamondX said:

He might have been hiding, considering how there being clones of him would make him look like one.

He could've been hunted by the Resistance id that was the case.

He could do his clone beating 6 months earlier, but no he waited for Sonic because the writers are so lazy and incompetent. I hope SEGA gets better writers for the next game.

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Stuck in the bathroom dealing with his IBS.

I mean there's obviously not going to be any kind of satisfying answer to this. He was never meant to be anywhere besides "not here" until they needed him. You could imagine he was off fighting Eggman's forces elsewhere or trapped in another one of Infinite's illusions or whatever, but there's no evidence for any of it and it's never going to mean anything.

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Shadows involvement with Forces doesn't make any sense to me. Heck, neither does Infinite given Shadow's involvement with Infinite's backstory.

I do find it weird that Eggman made as many gains as he did with an active "Sonic but ruthless."

Maybe he just couldn't be bothered 8D

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There really seems to be zero logical answer.

If I was in charge I would say he was stuck in VR Green Hills, the one from DLC. It felt minutes-hours, but in fact he was there for months.

Only problem is that DLC ends with Rouge saying Sonic just lost to Infinite.

So my best guess is Shadow went undercover for assuredly good reasons.

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Hmmmmm….

Infinite’s illusion powers are dependent on fear. It’s why he’s obsessed with stroking as much terror in people as possible. It’s after the avatar character and everyone else doesn’t fear him anymore, Infinite poofs out of existence.

By taking out Sonic briefly, public morale took a huge hit, allowing Infinite to coax the populace into an illusion of a several month war, but in reality not much time has passed. Eggman buys into this illusion as a dream come true. It's only after Sonic’s triumphant return spouting words of cheesy encouragement does the war suddenly turn around.

Sonic and Shadow are rattled by their encounter with infinite but they are also used to fighting beings like him. Shadow even shrugged him off as a mild inconvenience at first.

Sonic and Shadow are not consumed by his illusion as readily, so to them, their torture and tactical retreat felt like lot less time went by.

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1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

There really seems to be zero logical answer.

If I was in charge I would say he was stuck in VR Green Hills, the one from DLC. It felt minutes-hours, but in fact he was there for months.

Only problem is that DLC ends with Rouge saying Sonic just lost to Infinite.

So my best guess is Shadow went undercover for assuredly good reasons.

Yeah, I did the same VR for my story. Though I said he was trapped within his replica.

1 hour ago, Jetstreamx said:

Shadows involvement with Forces doesn't make any sense to me. Heck, neither does Infinite given Shadow's involvement with Infinite's backstory.

I do find it weird that Eggman made as many gains as he did with an active "Sonic but ruthless."

Maybe he just couldn't be bothered 8D

Infinite's backstory lowkey feels like fanfiction

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Its possible that Shadow was fighting elsewhere or formulating a strategy to beat Infinite, both are valid excuses.

After all Shadow got his ass handed to him by infinite, reformulating a plan to beat him would be a good idea.

 

I mean that would be something, I mean it does sort of make sense too as Shadow might have seen all the duplicates and had to rebase his tactics.

Its not the best excuse but still a valid one, armies sometimes make plans over long periods of time if the initial strategy doesnt work.

I mean sure its logic for a game without any but at least its something better given in the games.

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@25:40

 

 

"As it stands, there's no way we can win this". Apparently, Shadow just gave up on fighting back, since the planet went to hell after Sonic was taken out and Eggman was only a few days away from assuming total control. Wouldn't be the first time Shadow accepted an ending where everyone, including himself would die.

 

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Not there. I've said this before, there is no power that infnite gained that could have stopped. Sonic , Shadow, knuckles, Silver, heck even tails from just...punching him in the face. He isn't threatening. Where shadow went, was away. That's it Everyone else went away too in their own way

Knuckles Was away being the leader

Sonic was in jail

Tails was away being a coward

And silver was away being incompetent

Shadow had the least amount of explanation, just being away.

The story is built on tooth picks, those tooth picks only hold up if you pretend like all of that is ok. To make infnite threatening they need to just get rid of a lot of their cast , one way or another.

This is combination with, shadow giving rouge a call once, would have just solved the mystery of the plot

 

11 hours ago, DiamondX said:

He might have been hiding, considering how there being clones of him would make him look like one.

He could've been hunted by the Resistance id that was the case.

Nah because , if he showed up, heck even called while one of those other shadows were active. It basically breaks mystery. " Oh infnite can make infnite copies " and given shadow could knock one out with a single kick.. makes everyones lives a lot easier knowing what they are dealing with

Him hiding makes no sense, he was just " away " because the story is trash

8 hours ago, ShadowSJG said:

 

Infinite's backstory lowkey feels like fanfiction

Yeah, its shadow fanfiction. Infnite is written like someone wanted to make their own orginal shadow... Bladow. And didn't understand how to like write a plot that would allow for this character to be threatening , and really wanted them to be connected to shadow in someway , and here it is.

 

9 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

There really seems to be zero logical answer.

If I was in charge I would say he was stuck in VR Green Hills, the one from DLC. It felt minutes-hours, but in fact he was there for months.

Only problem is that DLC ends with Rouge saying Sonic just lost to Infinite.

So my best guess is Shadow went undercover for assuredly good reasons.

Shadow went to blazes world and went on a small vacation. Its basically all beaches there.

29 minutes ago, Treacher said:

@25:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bElov4KwU6U

 

"As it stands, there's no way we can win this". Apparently, Shadow just gave up on fighting back, since the planet went to hell after Sonic was taken out and Eggman was only a few days away from assuming total control. Wouldn't be the first time Shadow accepted an ending where everyone, including himself would die.

 

That makes no sense, because he bothered to show up later. Also it was 6 months.

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5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

That makes no sense, because he bothered to show up later. Also it was 6 months.

After the doctor announcing that he'd finally kill Sonic at the end of those six months, seeing Sonic out and about in the city rather than outright executed in space prompted him to get answers as to why and how he was freed so he ended up doing him a solid upon encountering that double. I'm not pretending as if Sonic Team put any serious thought as to the specifics of how well the interactions and motivations for the characters within the story played out. In fact, another thing that has me wondering: If Shadow saved him using chaos control, that would imply that he had an emerald with him. Could the replicas stop time too with or without emeralds? They're taken out fairly easily towards the end and the Chaos 0 one was dispatched in a single hit by classic as well, but it took longer for modern and the avatar to get rid of a fake Zavok and Metal Sonic as if they were the real ones despite being fakes like all the rest. The power scaling is inconsistent.

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13 minutes ago, Treacher said:

After the doctor announcing that he'd finally kill Sonic at the end of those six months, seeing Sonic out and about in the city rather than outright executed in space prompted him to get answers as to why and how he was freed so he ended up doing him a solid upon encountering that double.

That doesn't make sense, because and to put it simply, shadow isn't that type of character? Along with that, to get a solid explanation for the double, would require a single phone call to his friend, who ... he could have just called and went

 

" Hey uh, rouge this is uh shadow. That's litterally not me, seems as he can make copies, check the reports there are reports of the same 6 people in the same places don't make sense"

" That checks out shadow, seems as though he can make copies "

" Yeah I defeated one with a kick so they can't be that strong but untrained folks will find them formidable  "

 

That's why he didn't show up. Not because he gave up, he's not that sort of dude. Because him showing up ruins the plot progression ( or lack their of ).

Not trying to be a fanboy, but shadow's entire character. Is that even when it seems hopeless he will keep fighting. I just don't think its anything beyond " he just needed to not exist " . Its like silver not using his telekenisis on infinite, there is no complicated psychological explanation. They just needed infite not to get crushed in the story

Quote

 

I'm not pretending as if Sonic Team put any serious thought as to the specifics of how well the interactions and motivations for the characters within the story played out. In fact, another thing that has me wondering:

Then why are you trying to come up with an explanation for it beyond " Shadow existing fucks up the story "

Quote

 

If Shadow saved him using chaos control, that would imply that he had an emerald with him.

Or , Shadow just did chaos control with out an emerald.  And he can do that now because they want to write stories with out chaos emeralds, and keep shadow around. Much like they ignore that knuckles is the guardian of the master emerald. That's it really

The emeralds are just amplifiers for shadow at this point

Quote

 

Could the replicas stop time too with or without emeralds?

I don't think so. None of the replicas, did anything close to what their orginal did besides move around. Which....makes....everone loosing to these things seem... much much lamer.

Oh god you are making the story worse

 

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4 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

That doesn't make sense, because and to put it simply, shadow isn't that type of character? Along with that, to get a solid explanation for the double, would require a single phone call to his friend, who ... he could have just called and went

 

" Hey uh, rouge this is uh shadow. That's litterally not me, seems as he can make copies, check the reports there are reports of the same 6 people in the same places don't make sense"

" That checks out shadow, seems as though he can make copies "

" Yeah I defeated one with a kick so they can't be that strong but untrained folks will find them formidable  "

 

That's why he didn't show up. Not because he gave up, he's not that sort of dude. Because him showing up ruins the plot progression ( or lack their of ).

Not trying to be a fanboy, but shadow's entire character. Is that even when it seems hopeless he will keep fighting. I just don't think its anything beyond " he just needed to not exist " . Its like silver not using his telekenisis on silver, there is no complicated psychological explanation. They just needed infite not to get crushed in the story

Then why are you trying to come up with an explanation for it beyond " Shadow existing fucks up the story "

Or , Shadow just did chaos control with out an emerald.  And he can do that now because they want to write stories with out chaos emeralds, and keep shadow around. Much like they ignore that knuckles is the guardian of the master emerald. That's it really

The emeralds are just amplifiers for shadow at this point

I don't think so. None of the replicas, did anything close to what their orginal did besides move around. Which....makes....everone loosing to these things seem... much much lamer.

Oh god you are making the story worse

 

I'm trying to figure out what they were going for, but it's obvious that they didn't put much thought into its story outside of the bare minimum or had to cut things out. Thought it'd be a little fun to try regardless. It's either an error or they deliberately implied that he couldn't contact Rouge before reuniting with Sonic since Rouge has been in touch with his friends but Sonic, Knuckles, Vector, etc. are ignorant about the nature of the replicas and were unaware that the real Shadow didn't actually betray them. Probably could have tied it in with Shadow being unsure of what's real and what's not since Infinite was able to impersonate both Rouge and Omega along with feeding him misinfo about the passage of time according to this scrapped dialogue:

On the other hand, you're right in that he called the real Rouge anyway at the end of Episode Shadow which complicates things further aside from the explanation of: "they just didn't care".

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1 hour ago, Treacher said:

I'm trying to figure out what they were going for, but it's obvious that they didn't put much thought into its story outside of the bare minimum or had to cut things out. Thought it'd be a little fun to try regardless. It's either an error or they deliberately implied that he couldn't contact Rouge before reuniting with Sonic since Rouge has been in touch with his friends but Sonic, Knuckles, Vector, etc. are ignorant about the nature of the replicas and were unaware that the real Shadow didn't actually betray them.

I think its an error. Or rather not caring?

I explained this before... but him existing not only solves the mystery... but ends the plot? Or makes him look incredibly incompetent, which they seem to want to avoid. I mentioned this before but... infinite didn't really gain any powers to stop shadow, or anyone else from punching him in the face. To make infnite look threatening silver was made to not use telekenisis.  Its as simple as " If shadow shows up he will just punch him in the face. But sonic and the avatar need to do that, and shadow can't look wack so. He's out of the story "  . I understand you are trying to figure out what they are going for. But the answer to that question is " A 'narrative' where you and sonic beat up a bad man " . And everything else doesn't matter, except for shadow kinda. And that's....it. And you might be like "That's a poorly written story " yeah, but that's all they seemed to have

1 hour ago, Treacher said:

Probably could have tied it in with Shadow being unsure of what's real and what's not since Infinite was able to impersonate both Rouge and Omega along with feeding him misinfo about the passage of time according to this scrapped dialogue:

 

1 hour ago, Treacher said:

 

 

I don't think that would have worked really? It wouldn't take 6 months for that, ontop of... well sonic and avatar breaks out of the void realm in like ... i dunno 30 seconds. I just don't think they wanted shadow to look bad. So, he also breaks out of the illusion fairly shortly. Like infinity being able to trap in other realities would be a cool power, and would be a much better explanation to sonic being gone. But if we are referencing unused content, allegedly infinite was supposed to be an entirely other character powered by a different thing. And that content is probably from a different game that involves characters going to and from different realities. That would also explain classic sonic.  but as it stands they can't really tie it to anything. That DLC is designed to make shadow look cool, like its a legit love mini letter to the character, shit has shadow the hedgehog remixes in it. They probably didn't want him to look bad so he escapes and just vanishes from the story. It doesn't take much to just imply he was in an illusion world for 6 months, but they intentionally didn't do that.

Now if I am to put on my conspiracy theory hat on , in combination with what I previously said. Its because they kinda knew infnite wouldn't go over well as a character. Shadow's DLC is last minute, I get the feeling... they knew infinite wouldn't go over well. Like they had like marketing materials desicated to him, but it really feels like with the end of the story and shadow's DLC they knew it and wanted to throw him as far under the bus as possible. Now i could be wrong, he could pop up in the comic next year. But I feel liknfnite was sent to die, and he might be this generations Mephilies in terms up , he never shows up anymore.

1 hour ago, Treacher said:

On the other hand, you're right in that he called the real Rouge anyway at the end of Episode Shadow which complicates things further aside from the explanation of: "they just didn't care".

That's the explanation, they were making a video game. Couldn't make that video game, and quickly made another video game. And there were story elements they just let slide.

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9 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I mentioned this before but... infinite didn't really gain any powers to stop shadow, or anyone else from punching him in the face. To make infnite look threatening silver was made to not use telekenisis. 

Let's say Silver grabs Infinite with telekinesis.

Infinite hits him with a cube anyway, because he can basically just summon them anywhere nearby.

Now there's a dozen Infinites and a bunch of spike balls flying around and cannons lining up to shoot at Silver, and they can all hurt him, but he can't do much to them because they're not actually real and Infinite can just keep summoning in more.

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45 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Let's say Silver grabs Infinite with telekinesis.

Infinite hits him with a cube anyway, because he can basically just summon them anywhere nearby.

Now there's a dozen Infinites and a bunch of spike balls flying around and cannons lining up to shoot at Silver, and they can all hurt him, but he can't do much to them because they're not actually real and Infinite can just keep summoning in more.

Just slam his ass into a wall and knock him out

You have telekenisis in a world filled with people who create kinetic energy. Just grab him real quick and knock him out. Now obviously this is a cartoon video game series with crazy hedgehogs and echidinas and such, and not everyone is and even should be thinking the most logically. We should have as an audience realstic or rather unrealstic suspensions of disbelief with motivations, and plot details and ect.

But this is beyond that, Infnite probably has no idea what silver even does. He's a wild card from the future, the story as it stands doesn't even require the other characters knowing who silver is. Silver could have just come from the future and been like " Yo the future gets wack  , let me help ya'll " . Infnite problably didn't even know he could that,  silver has power where only like one character on the whole roster can reliably dodge because that character can teleport.  Just grab him and slam into a wall, even if he doesn't get knocked out, you might be able to get the upper hand? Something. This is in combination with, on the other end, silver doesn't know know at this point in the story how's infnites powers work yet... he has no reason to fear them. He doesn't know how they work.

Just grab him and slam him into a wall

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They forced a connection between Infinite and Shadow but insisted on making Sonic and Buddy be the hope for Planet Furry. There wasn't a place for Shadow since he didn't really fit in the story. Frankly, most of the Resistance wasn't needed and could have been cut from the game.

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Shadow was out for 6 months with a bad case of bad writing.

On 11/12/2018 at 9:18 PM, Shadowlax said:

Or , Shadow just did chaos control with out an emerald.  And he can do that now because they want to write stories with out chaos emeralds, and keep shadow around. Much like they ignore that knuckles is the guardian of the master emerald. That's it really

The emeralds are just amplifiers for shadow at this point

Or, Shadow had one on him but bad story telling left it out. The Emerald locations are all unknown in the Forces story (barring non-canon DLC). Shadow is not confirmed to not have an Emerald. Which means Shadow COULD HAVE HAD an Emerald on him. Furthermore, Sonic Team CONTINUES to insist Chaos Control requires an Emerald. Therefore Shadow MUST HAVE HAD an Emerald on him to use Chaos Control (or an equivalent to an Emerald like a fake Emerald - which he must have had in Sonic Heroes since he was pulling Emeralds out of his ass when his team had yet to collect one). Also, if the real Shadow did not need an Emerald to bust out Chaos Control, neither did the fake Shadows - yet they never even used Chaos Control despite how "their powers are as formidable as the originals". A better explanation: they never had a chance to because there was almost never an Emerald close enough to them to use Chaos Control (and the one time there was, the real Shadow used to beat the fake before the fake even knew what was going on). After that, a smart tactic on Shadow's part would be to leave the Emerald at home for any other fights with his fakes - and coincidentally Chaos Control was never seen again in-game.

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@Darth InVaders

You can believe whatever you want.

But what is happened, in the story. As poorly written and directed as it is, is that shadow, didn't have a chaos emerald. Not only that, no one had a chaos emerald and they weren't used in the story.

And if I were to be bold, I would advise you to get used to that, because it seems like unless things change , it seems as though the people making these games want to use the chaos emeralds and the master emerald a lot less. I'll stick by this, Sonic Boom was a lot more indicative of where this franchise is going in a lot of ways than a lot of people will like, and lack of chaos emeralds is one of those directions.

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27 minutes ago, Almar said:

We already saw Shadow Chaos Controlling with no emerald in his game.

We have seen shadow doing chaos controlling with no emerald in multiple games. Its escalated over time.

Up until recently everything but stopping time was free to do with no chaos emerald. Even in sonic boom, That was the only power shadow did not have , and there were no chaos emeralds in that game. And yes its a non canon spin off series that omega dead at this point, but its good to note that even in the spin off series shadows chaos abilities are so notable to his character. ( That and various other things from that cartoon I feel are going to be incorporated more and more in the series as time goes ). In forces for the first time , We shadow use time stop chaos control with no chaos emerald. Its clear at this point to people paying attention that both in shadow and knuckles's case that the people creating these stories and the gameplay no longer want the chaos emeralds to be apart of the narrative.

And I think that's ok. I think the people like the person I responded to need to get used to that. The issue is, to wrap this all the way around back to the actual topic of this thread is that they did not create a world where this was a thing. This is normal sonic land, chaos emeralds exist and with shadow's ability to just do chaos control, they still amplify his power and knuckles is still the guardian of an object that is not only one of the most powerful things in the world, but houses a deity.

Infnite's character has to make the world bend over backwards and pretend it doesn't hear anything just to make him a bit threatening. It has to ignore some of the most powerful objects in existence. It has to the characters doing the things they are known for to the antagonist, just for the antagonist to function. Instead of playing to the antagonist strengths and writing him in a way that works with these issues. I have mentioned this in other threads, but infnite using his power to COPY PEOPLE, to actually so seeds of doubt and cause separation among the characters and that is what allows eggman to thrive is a much more interesting plot. Because infinite doesn't have to be intimidating or threatening by himself, he just has to be smart and cunning and that would work with how his origin story is as of current backstory is. Gets bodied by shadow, and decides to not only ruin his life ruin the lives of his friends because he's a pettty asshole and this also works out for eggman. But the story we got we have silver not doing the thing he's known for, you have knuckles not doing anything, you have tails being a coward, you have sonic in jail for 7 months just...sitting there totally fine, and shadow M.I.A  even though he could call his friend.... and solver the plot mystery by doing so , or even just punch the villian in the face himself, but he's gone because infinite needs to be threatening.

Sa2's story ain't perfect, but it does what this game is trying to do way more effectively than forces did

 

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