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Is the lack of "alternate gameplay" the only reason why people liked Colors at first?


The 3rd Option

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16 hours ago, The 3rd Option said:

Alright, I can grant to you that the game is centered around the Wisps and that you should master them to get higher scores.

But what I'm trying to say is that said mastery doesn't involve speed or precise jumps at all. The mastery is just too centralized around the Wisps and not enough around the boosting and jumping mechanics.

I recall one of the acts in Aquarium Park that required you to use the block wisp over pits was pretty difficult to get the S-rank on. It required collecting those blue coins that the blocks turn into and needing quick precision to get the score needed, so I'd say that struck a good balance in regards to mastering the wisp's abilities and Sonic's controls that made it really feel like you earned that S-rank.

Sure not every level got it right, especially not in the instances that appeared to require spamming the drill wisp to get the points you needed.

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5 hours ago, The 3rd Option said:

I'm sure most will agree Unleashed and the Adventure games are worth more since they reach higher highs despite the general low opinion of the "not playing like Sonic".

I wouldn't. I'll go to bat for Adventure 2 because I like what it was trying to do even if it took a step back from Adventure in a couple ways (but with the corollary that it has aged far better than Adventure has as a result of some of those changes), but the back half of Unleashed is such an unpleasant chore to try and slog through that none of its higher highs (which themselves are almost entirely related to the production values Sonic Team hasn't shot for since rather than any intrinsic value the gameplay itself has) can come close to offsetting it.

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5 minutes ago, Tornado said:

I wouldn't. I'll go to bat for Adventure 2 because I like what it was trying to do even if it took a step back from Adventure in a couple ways (but with the corollary that it has aged far better than Adventure has as a result of some of those changes), but the back half of Unleashed is such an unpleasant chore to try and slog through that none of its higher highs (which themselves are almost entirely related to the production values Sonic Team hasn't shot for since rather than any intrinsic value the gameplay itself has) can come close to offsetting it.

How are you able to separate Unleashed's production values from its gameplay? Clearly, you must notice that Unleashed's day level design is second only to Generations in how elaborate and flashy they are.

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I would go to bat for Unleashed's gameplay for a variety of reasons. I don't think you can seperate the aesthetics and how they add to the experience from it but putting them first isn't going to make the most convincing argument.  

I like Sonic Unleashed because it felt like it made you earn the right to feel powerful through the more punishing level design and reaction based challenges. I felt like I got more bang for my buck out of replaying the levels and looking for that buzz I got when I did things perfectly and maximized my score. I loved the visuals and how much work went into giving you the feeling that you were some kind of superhero, travelling for miles through larger than life worlds.  I liked the dense atmosphere, the exploration and even some aspects of the combat when it came to the Werehog. I like how the overall world travel/vacation theme the game is wrapped up in creates a soothing, feel good experience unlike anything else in the franchise aside from the first Adventure. Above all else I like how it felt like few other platformers I had played at the time, as a person who's spent a lifetime with the genre. 

I don't think everything works: The pacing is the antithesis to what the above is going for if not pretty godawful no matter what type of game it is. I don't mind the Werehog and can even see why they put it in the game from a certain standpoint but it's far too different and far too flawed to take up as much of the experience as it does. Sonic's controls often aren't precise enough for what the game asks of you and there are a surprising amount of flaws to his gameplay that you have to learn to just play around to enjoy it like the completely broken drift mechanic. The framerate is dire and for a reaction based game that is unheard of. It's actually a fucking joke that that shit not only slid by for release but never got fixed. The game in the first place is rooted in the type of game design that I think is ultimately detrimental to the series: completely binary do or die mechanics where you press the right button to proceed instead of more nuanced movement and level design. The shit is still fun, but I think of it like junk food.

Sonic Colors is, in many respects, the better game. I know this to be true because I wouldn't feel weird about recommending it to anyone unlike Unleashed which I basically wouldn't recommend to anyone except for the type of person who would have already played it. I feel like that says a lot without even going into the specifics. 

I'll go to bat for Unleashed over it but that's mostly because of my unique perspective and it's important that I acknowledge that instead of stereotyping people who feel the other way about it or calling them disingenuous from the jump.

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I made a comment on something like this a while ago, and Colors advantage is consistency. I don't think it has any real highs, but not really any lows either (Outside of the story). It's a solid game. I don't think it's a good Sonic game, but as a game that has Sonic in it...it's inoffensive in its gameplay. It's basically a cozy ride throughout. It's just....I feel Generations does pretty much everything Colors was doing, but A LOT better. Level design was so much more interesting and fun. The nostalgia trip was great before they beat us in the head with it. Generations only real low for me is funny enough the Planet Wisp level and final boss. Kinda sucks it dropped the ball at the very end, but otherwise it raised it in every other way.

Still Mania kinda turned me against Boost, even if I still enjoy it in Generations. As well as playing other games where the enemies have a point. I was reminded that the enemies can be used to reach higher areas, but also weren't just boost fodder. That comic with Sonic boosting through enemies with Eggman horrified is still probably one of the funniest fan comics.

d1lrip4-a99fa495-a925-4803-8fbb-db19e556

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8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Yeah. I prefer Unleashed but I wouldn't vote for having the werehog or the medal collecting system return. Those were the only two problems I had with the game but they take up a substantial amount of it. They can't really be ignored despite my preference for Unleashed as a whole.

It helps that the werehog wasn't something I outright hated. That was probably mostly due to the fact that I loved being able to explore those beautiful environments and at my favorite time of day. I'm a night owl so when the sun goes down, I'm the most active. It gets my blood going. I wish more Sonic stages took place at night.

Also, the rain. I love the rain too. More Sonic stages in the rain please. That would have looked gorgeous in Unleashed.

 

100% agree with you about the first part. I have such a blast with Unleashed when I'm not playing werehog, but it just takes up so much of the game it's kind of hard to put it aside, you know what I mean? It's honestly too bad. Unleashed is a game that you can tell had a lot of love and passion put into it. I love looking at all the beautiful concept art for it. I feel it's been a while since a Sonic game had this much dedication and effort put into it.

And YES, I am totally on board with you there. Rain during a Sonic stage would be great! One of Sonic's consistently strong points is in its visuals (in my opinion), and I would love to have some unique visual aspects being test or put into a level. Like a rain or maybe a stage through a really crowded metropolis kind of area? Like Casino City but it's an actual city and not a bunch of pinball machines, haha. Though I don't know if that would be kind of boring? Maybe it could be a really stylized city or something like that? Sorry, I'm rambling.

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12 hours ago, dbzfan7 said:

I made a comment on something like this a while ago, and Colors advantage is consistency. I don't think it has any real highs, but not really any lows either (Outside of the story). It's a solid game. I don't think it's a good Sonic game, but as a game that has Sonic in it...it's inoffensive in its gameplay. It's basically a cozy ride throughout. It's just....I feel Generations does pretty much everything Colors was doing, but A LOT better. Level design was so much more interesting and fun. The nostalgia trip was great before they beat us in the head with it. Generations only real low for me is funny enough the Planet Wisp level and final boss. Kinda sucks it dropped the ball at the very end, but otherwise it raised it in every other way.

Still Mania kinda turned me against Boost, even if I still enjoy it in Generations. As well as playing other games where the enemies have a point. I was reminded that the enemies can be used to reach higher areas, but also weren't just boost fodder. That comic with Sonic boosting through enemies with Eggman horrified is still probably one of the funniest fan comics.

d1lrip4-a99fa495-a925-4803-8fbb-db19e556

I kinda feel Generations coasts on being "inoffensive" in much of the same ways as Colors, though. The alternate gameplay is just another form of Sonic (as in gameplay, not the werehog), the story is non-existent, and the game is very light on game-exclusive gimmicks. The game is just rather lacking in content, but the levels for both styles are top-notch.

If this makes sense, Colors has a great overall structure but mediocre content, while Generations has great but meagre content and a bland overall structure.

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