Think we'll get two Sonic games in 2019?

[Scar]

20 hours ago, thumbs13 said:

It's a character creator that took spotlight away from the guy on the box. Just like in Sonic, according to you.

That's a fairly flippant, and reductive statement you've just made there.

I'm not overly familiar with FE, but as far as I know, each instalment focuses on different characters. Sonic is more than just The Guy on the Box, he's the central character in the whole franchise. The titular character. Sonic is a mascot, and not just any mascot, one of the most instantly recognisable mascots in existence. You show a random person the boxart from any given FE game, and chances are, they won't know who it is. You show a random person a picture of a blue hedgehog with red shoes and chances are they'll know its Sonic.

I'm not saying having an OC creator will kill the franchise, I just don't think its appropriate in a mainline game. If SEGA wanted to make a turn-based strategy game or an RPG, a character creator would be a-ok with me. But in the main series of Sonic platformers - a series which doesn't even have an identifiable gameplay style other than Gotta Go Fast, then in my opinion its just muddying the water with regards to what a Sonic game actually is. 

[Tarnish]

On 11/5/2019 at 12:27 AM, Scar said:

I'm not saying having an OC creator will kill the franchise, I just don't think its appropriate in a mainline game. If SEGA wanted to make a turn-based strategy game or an RPG, a character creator would be a-ok with me. But in the main series of Sonic platformers - a series which doesn't even have an identifiable gameplay style other than Gotta Go Fast, then in my opinion its just muddying the water with regards to what a Sonic game actually is. 

My take on the whole "make your own OC" thing is:

1: They're just throwing random shit at the wall at this point hoping something sticks.

2: They're just admitting they can't think of anything meaningful to do with their literally dozens of already introduced characters.

3: This whole "create your own character thing" in general for me sort of reeks of "Well, we can't think of a cool character design or don't want to put the effort in, so just make your own shit".

[Multikaris]

12 hours ago, Tarnish said:

My take on the whole "make your own OC" thing is:

1: They're just throwing random shit at the wall at this point hoping something sticks.

2: They're just admitting they can't think of anything meaningful to do with their literally dozens of already introduced characters.

3: This whole "create your own character thing" in general for me sort of reeks of "Well, we can't think of a cool character design or don't want to put the effort in, so just make your own shit".

#3 is likely. Have you SEEN any of their later designs? It's also "We also refuse to use our reliable outside designers in the comics, so it's all on you". And they did think of something meaningful for Shadow, this one time.

[MainJP]

On 12/3/2019 at 4:48 PM, Miragnarok said:

Have you SEEN any of their later designs?

What do you mean by that?

[Multikaris]

1 hour ago, MainJP said:

What do you mean by that?

Designs like DoDonpa don't really command much of a following these days, compared to what the IDW team can put out.

[DabigRG]

6 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Designs like DoDonpa don't really command much of a following these days, compared to what the IDW team can put out.

Eh, he's a supporting non playable character anyway. 

[Roger_van_der_weide]

Whisper and Tangle are supporting non playable characters too.
So was Marine, who did have a decent fan following.

Still, disagree with the 3 possibilities. Well okay, 1. is probably true to a degree.
I think the OC character was really for the fan requests. Iizuka said many fans asked for their character to be in a Sonic game.
Just look how Sonic Forces was written with all Sonic characters constantly being "GOOD JOB ROOKIE, YOU SO COOL ROOKIE!" hyping up the OC characters importance at every drop of a hat.
It's really to play up fans desire to have their character in the Sonic universe.

It sure as heck isn't to make up for Sonic Team's bad character designs, since they made the rookie characters look kinda off and lame on purpose and rejeced animal species like Dragons for being "too cool."
The backlash toward Silver probably dissuaded Sonic Team of making "Cool"  characters since.
Because terror for the Sins of Sonic 06 hang over Modern Sonic as a constant sword of domacles.

.... Altough then they make Infinite, who does immediatly ignite both the "Ohh Cringe!" and "Oh awesome!!!" crowds like Silver before.
It's fascinating how much Forces flirts with being a Sonic 06 sequel while desperatly shooting itself in the foot to distance itself from 06 at the same time.

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Whisper and Tangle are supporting non playable characters too.
So was Marine, who did have a decent fan following.
 

Only because they are comic characters. But they still prove my point because they were deliberately around how they would function from a gameplay standpoint, with Whisper being a flexible Avatar and Tangle having the Werehog for a butt.

Meanwhile, Marine is a little girl that is also infered to be the Sol Dimension's answer to Tails. So of course she'd fit in better with him, Cream, and Charmy as existing bases.

1 hour ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Still, disagree with the 3 possibilities. Well okay, 1. is probably true to a degree.
I think the OC character was really for the fan requests. Iizuka said many fans asked for their character to be in a Sonic game.
Just look how Sonic Forces was written with all Sonic characters constantly being "GOOD JOB ROOKIE, YOU SO COOL ROOKIE!" hyping up the OC characters importance at every drop of a hat.
It's really to play up fans desire to have their character in the Sonic universe.

It sure as heck isn't to make up for Sonic Team's bad character designs, since they made the rookie characters look kinda off and lame on purpose and rejeced animal species like Dragons for being "too cool."
 

I mean, there's also the speculation that it was supposed to involve crossing over with Boom at one point, which also had a few characters with similar body types.

But yeah. Is that really the reason?

[Multikaris]

5 hours ago, Roger_van_der_weide said:

Whisper and Tangle are supporting non playable characters too.
So was Marine, who did have a decent fan following.

Still, disagree with the 3 possibilities. Well okay, 1. is probably true to a degree.
I think the OC character was really for the fan requests. Iizuka said many fans asked for their character to be in a Sonic game.
Just look how Sonic Forces was written with all Sonic characters constantly being "GOOD JOB ROOKIE, YOU SO COOL ROOKIE!" hyping up the OC characters importance at every drop of a hat.
It's really to play up fans desire to have their character in the Sonic universe.

It sure as heck isn't to make up for Sonic Team's bad character designs, since they made the rookie characters look kinda off and lame on purpose and rejeced animal species like Dragons for being "too cool."
The backlash toward Silver probably dissuaded Sonic Team of making "Cool"  characters since.
Because terror for the Sins of Sonic 06 hang over Modern Sonic as a constant sword of domacles.

.... Altough then they make Infinite, who does immediatly ignite both the "Ohh Cringe!" and "Oh awesome!!!" crowds like Silver before.
It's fascinating how much Forces flirts with being a Sonic 06 sequel while desperatly shooting itself in the foot to distance itself from 06 at the same time.

And don't forget the OG, Tikal. Or even earlier with Honey and Tiara. So far, DoDonpa's ironic following wasn't on level with Hatsun back in the day. Meanwhile, Zavok is at best becoming the second coming of Big. And he was meant to be more major, as his re-use in countless party games shows.

 

I guess Infinite got away with it because of his status as an irredeemable villain. I guess those would fall under an exception of the "no cool" rule, as shown by a few kaiju like Dark Gaia done since. "Only cool characters allowed to be made anymore are (one-off) villains." seems to be the actual mantra at ST these days, as demonstrated by him, Dark Gaia, Erazor, Merlina, etc. And yes, only one-offs, as the re-occurring Deadly Six took a very different direction. We're lucky they haven't started retiring those older designs just yet...

4 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Only because they are comic characters. But they still prove my point because they were deliberately around how they would function from a gameplay standpoint, with Whisper being a flexible Avatar and Tangle having the Werehog for a butt.

Meanwhile, Marine is a little girl that is also infered to be the Sol Dimension's answer to Tails. So of course she'd fit in better with him, Cream, and Charmy as existing bases.

I mean, there's also the speculation that it was supposed to involve crossing over with Boom at one point, which also had a few characters with similar body types.

But yeah. Is that really the reason?

Lilac is also a thing. They might not have wanted to rip her or Spyro off. Bandicoots and earthworms are also off the table.

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

And don't forget the OG, Tikal. Or even earlier with Honey and Tiara.

Honey and Tiara were meant to be playable though. Also, Classic.

Quote

So far, DoDonpa's ironic following wasn't on level with Hatsun back in the day. Meanwhile, Zavok is at best becoming the second coming of Big. And he was meant to be more major, as his re-use in countless party games shows.

...Wuh?

I was about to say, the reason Dodonpa looks the way he does is because a. he's a king, and b. he's supposed to resemble Eggman(and maybe Big), who also has a nonstandard design while we're at it.

Quote

I guess Infinite got away with it because of his status as an irredeemable villain. I guess those would fall under an exception of the "no cool" rule, as shown by a few kaiju like Dark Gaia done since. "Only cool characters allowed to be made anymore are (one-off) villains." seems to be the actual mantra at ST these days, as demonstrated by him, Dark Gaia, Erazor, Merlina, etc.

Infinite was supposed to be your edgy villain type compared to other villains.

Wait, why are you grouping Dark Gaia with Erazor and Merlina? And him, while we're at it.

Quote

And yes, only one-offs, as the re-occurring Deadly Six took a very different direction. We're lucky they haven't started retiring those older designs just yet...

Honestly, the Deadly Six seem to be more in line with the type of villains we'd see in the Classic era, to the point that Zazz in particular is a design that makes more sense in 2d. And they do technically fall in line with the general mentality of sleek, colorful creatures with archetypal personalities. They just also happen to be loosely based on something that doesn't resemble a standard animal, with Zor and Zeena being the closest fit.

Quote

Lilac is also a thing. They might not have wanted to rip her or Spyro off. Bandicoots and earthworms are also off the table.

Lilac...? Oh, Freedom Planet.

Why the heck would there be an earthworm Sonic character?  

[Multikaris]

24 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Honey and Tiara were meant to be playable though. Also, Classic.

...Wuh?

I was about to say, the reason Dodonpa looks the way he does is because a. he's a king, and b. he's supposed to resemble Eggman(and maybe Big), who also has a nonstandard design while we're at it.

Infinite was supposed to be your edgy villain type compared to other villains.

Wait, why are you grouping Dark Gaia with Erazor and Merlina? And him, while we're at it.

Honestly, the Deadly Six seem to be more in line with the type of villains we'd see in the Classic era, to the point that Zazz in particular is a design that makes more sense in 2d. And they do technically fall in line with the general mentality of sleek, colorful creatures with archetypal personalities. They just also happen to be loosely based on something that doesn't resemble a standard animal, with Zor and Zeena being the closest fit.

Lilac...? Oh, Freedom Planet.

Why the heck would there be an earthworm Sonic character?  

But they still got a following even as deleted characters.

Because of the commonalities of their designs, in that they were all less in-line with later material like Nega Mother Wisp than they were with one another.

Yes, they do seem to remind me of stuff from Tails's solo games and the like. Tails should get one again. I think that might have been the intent, as the designer of the Kukkus joined ST.

Because of James, a Texan who was Sonic's compatriot. Earthworm Jim.

[DabigRG]

4 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

But they still got a following even as deleted characters.

 

Which adds to it, if anything.

Oh, you were focusing on fanbases. Honestly, I wouldn't know beyond TVTropes and what might crop up in conversation here.

4 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

 

Because of the commonalities of their designs, in that they were all less in-line with later material like Nega Mother Wisp than they were with one another.

 

Mm...I guess? In the sense that they are meant to be more serious and dramatic.

I didn't play the DS verstion, so I'd have to see a picture of Nega Mother Wisp if I was gonna judge. Though she is a Wisp all the same.

4 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

 

Yes, they do seem to remind me of stuff from Tails's solo games and the like. Tails should get one again. I think that might have been the intent, as the designer of the Kukkus joined ST.

 

Ah. In tandem with the Classic setpieces.

Btw, funny thing I realized is that Grand Battlekuku XV was technically merged with Eggman. 

4 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

 

Because of James, a Texan who was Sonic's compatriot. Earthworm Jim.

lol wut

EDIT: Okay, you were referrencing Sonic for Hire. I had to backcheck just in case.

[Endy]

yeah probably

[MetalSkulkBane]

Personally I theorize that Sega doesn't want to add more Sonic characters.

Look, every mobian-shaped character gets some following.  That;s unwritten rule.

Merlina, Lumina, Dodon Pa? So-so. Even Zeeti or Chip aren't that high.

But obscure classic-era like Honey or Nack? Chaos or Tikal? Yes, yes yes. Even unlikley candidates like Mephiles

You can't deny that Marine is more fan-art present than Nega, despite being in fewer games. Sometimes it's fault of writting (Mephiles was awesome), but it's hard to ignore we like Sonic shapes. Imagine if Black Doom was more Eclipse shape, I guranteee more people would want him back.

But post around 2006-2010 Sega got terrified of growing the Recurring Cast, they barely have time for those we have now, but fans keep banging "where is Blaze? Make Shadow playable"/ So OC was a perfect compromise, way to 'add' cool character, without doing really it. (This is one more reason why they keep returning old ideas, to slow down 'expansion' of the universe. Of course they have to add soemthing, thus Infinte, Zeti, etc)

[Multikaris]

On 12/21/2019 at 4:56 AM, MetalSkulkBane said:

Personally I theorize that Sega doesn't want to add more Sonic characters.

Look, every mobian-shaped character gets some following.  That;s unwritten rule.

Merlina, Lumina, Dodon Pa? So-so. Even Zeeti or Chip aren't that high.

But obscure classic-era like Honey or Nack? Chaos or Tikal? Yes, yes yes. Even unlikley candidates like Mephiles

You can't deny that Marine is more fan-art present than Nega, despite being in fewer games. Sometimes it's fault of writting (Mephiles was awesome), but it's hard to ignore we like Sonic shapes. Imagine if Black Doom was more Eclipse shape, I guranteee more people would want him back.

But post around 2006-2010 Sega got terrified of growing the Recurring Cast, they barely have time for those we have now, but fans keep banging "where is Blaze? Make Shadow playable"/ So OC was a perfect compromise, way to 'add' cool character, without doing really it. (This is one more reason why they keep returning old ideas, to slow down 'expansion' of the universe. Of course they have to add soemthing, thus Infinte, Zeti, etc)

I'd argue Merlina and Lumina have a fandom at least equal to the Zeti, if not Chip. Merlina has a lot due to how well-done she was as a villain of the week.  Lumina and Chip themselves already have more in common with Mobian shapes than the Zeti do, and Merlina's semi-realistic form might have also helped. And this is why Shadow returned as playable in Forces, and why Mania was a thing. I'd argue this kinda helped hurt Boom. Infinite gets me thinking, that Sonic Team's "no more cool characters" can have exceptions, as long as they are one-off villains.

[MainJP]

On 12/21/2019 at 6:56 AM, MetalSkulkBane said:

Personally I theorize that Sega doesn't want to add more Sonic characters.

Look, every mobian-shaped character gets some following.  That;s unwritten rule.

Merlina, Lumina, Dodon Pa? So-so. Even Zeeti or Chip aren't that high.

 

"Mobian-shaped"? Lumina looks "mobian-shaped".

Same way, like...Chaos or Emerl or Cosmo are "Mobian-shaped". Large heads, hands and feet, rubber-hose limbs...

And Chip...looks like one I guess. I'd call this "Uekawa designed characters" since the human Eggman (including Nega) have the same design qualities. 

On 12/21/2019 at 1:38 PM, Miragnarok said:

And this is why Shadow returned as playable in Forces

More like he's just easier to throw over Sonic's rig and call it a day.

[expansivelovestories]

It is close to either half a year, or much less if there is anything to be shared at SxSW, til the next project(s) will be given some sort of reveal!! 

I guess this topic will soon become "Will there be any new or semi-new Sonic releases in 2020?"; and, it is both wonderfully, and lightly frustratingly, hard to tell!  But to me, having the 30th anniversary projects being revealed relatively soon is very exciting.  the first reveal of Forces and Mania was almost four years ago?!!?  Six months doesn't feel like much time at all to wait for something even remotely similar to that to happen again! 

[Eurisko]

*Looks at calendar

No.

[MetalSkulkBane]

1 hour ago, Eurisko said:

*Looks at calendar

No.

Um... yes?

[Eurisko]

15 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Um... yes?

You can have half a point for the olympic games er..... game. It's not really a full Sonic game is it and thats my whole excuse for forgetting about it before I spoke.

 

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Thread title should be changed to "A Mainline Sonic Game in 2020" to make expectations realistic and avoid further confusion.

Anyway, I wish SEGA would just release a three-sentence blurb about the next game. Any info, three sentences. I don't care if it's just the plot premise, gameplay, or whatever else. I just want something to discuss. We know so little about this next game, it's kind of boring. 

[DabigRG]

Honestly, in addition to working on the next Anniversary cake(because that's most of what we're getting lately), I hope they continue outsourcing Sonic and/or other IPs to whoever is able to make a neat spinoff.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

If the next game is an anniversary title, I hope SEGA doesn’t make it an explicit celebration. Just do what SA2 and 06 did and have a little “30th Anniversary” emblem somewhere on the box art/wallpaper. 

[Multikaris]

20 hours ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

If the next game is an anniversary title, I hope SEGA doesn’t make it an explicit celebration. Just do what SA2 and 06 did and have a little “30th Anniversary” emblem somewhere on the box art/wallpaper. 

Forces's anniversary elements were a millstone around its neck. Generations and Mania were the only celebrations to work, and even then, the former has aged poorly.

[expansivelovestories]

Yes, it really seems like both the 3D and 2D games have a very high chance of being fully new stories for their universes!! 

"Mania 2" would surely be popular but a completely new experience in 2D would most likely be one of the best games in a while, not just in terms of Sonic!!