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Plasme

Should Sonic take a break?

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5 minutes ago, Ruomarta said:

No, we all just want Sonic as an IP to be great again. But unfortunately, that seems to be asking for too much, for whatever reason.

Sure, but if you all genuinely believe Sonic Team will never get it right and it's all just a pipe dream, maybe the practical solution is for Sonic just to die.

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24 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Sure, but if you all genuinely believe Sonic Team will never get it right and it's all just a pipe dream, maybe the practical solution is for Sonic just to die.

Dude, Sonic is Sega's BIGGEST IP. What are they going to replace this with? It's not like they're Nintendo, Sony, or really anybody else where they have another IP that is as big as or close as big as Sonic to name it their flagship. Most of Sega's IPs are either niche or dead.

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1 hour ago, Plasme said:

maybe the practical solution is for Sonic just to die.

How about no? Killing off Sonic fixes nothing and makes nobody happy except Sonic haters. Even if Sonic Team produces more misses then they do hits for games, there is always hope them or somebody else at some point can create great Sonic games long as they keep the franchise alive.

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I don't think Sonic really needs a break.

You say they could take the time off with the break to prototype new engines and such, but that is what they do inbetween and during development of games. Sonic Team don't work by having everyone on the team involved with development of one single game; other members of the team will go off to work on new graphic engines, new Sonic games, or even completely different games like Puyo Puyo. Sonic Team is not an entity that focuses solely on making Sonic games, no studio works like that.

Effectively, Sonic always gets a break between games, with downtime and members of the team finding something new to work on. But take too long between games (Sonic 3 to Sonic Adventure, for example), and he fades out of the public conscience. I mean, we got NiGHTS out of the first time that happened, but still. For a mascot character, that's a pretty bad thing to do.

What you're asking is that the team just make a brand new Sonic game. Audiences may have gotten sick of the boost formula, and who knows, maybe some folks at Sonic Team have gotten sick of it too, and are working on a new kind of Sonic game that uses a new formula. This is how things like Sonic Lost World come into being.

 

All in all, there's no real "break" for Sonic, just downtime. This downtime even happens in the middle of development of a flagship game like Sonic. We just hope that the people at Sonic Team use that downtime to create a path to the next Sonic game that satisfies fans and general audiences. Or create a new NiGHTS game, both options would be nice.

 

2 hours ago, Plasme said:

Sure, but if you all genuinely believe Sonic Team will never get it right and it's all just a pipe dream, maybe the practical solution is for Sonic just to die.

You're asking Sonic Team and SEGA to kill a franchise that is both their mascot and flagship series. Kind of a ridiculous asking there.

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3 hours ago, Plasme said:

If you all have this little faith in SEGA and Sonic Team ever improving, then should Sonic just die?

With all respect, this question should never be asked about any series or brand that is still highly recognizable and still sells. As long as the sales potential is there, Sonic should and will continue to exist.

The thing is, as bad ad things have been for sonic over the last 20 years, the franchise is still sitting on a goldmine of potential. A sonic series that does itself justice and has the right marketing can still be as relevant as any series out there. Just look at what happened with mania; and that was the product of a small team with a low budget.

This is the primary reason mania (and adventures!) was so exciting to people like me: it proved that sonic is still easily capable of putting out A quality, near-universally applauded content when it wants to; beneath all of the many weird ideas and inconsistencies the franchise has had, there is still a uniquely "sonic" identity in there. SEGA and whoever else is responsible, to be frank, needs to take a serious look at majorly cutting or restructuring the rest of the bullcrap and focusing primarily on the uniquely sonic-y stuff. It cannot be understated how valuable it would be to simply remember what sonic is and why it ever worked in the first place, and then build on it. It is unnecessary to try and appease everyone, because sonic evidently already has wide popularity when he sticks to his identity. Just build on it!

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Years Ago I would say no they can do it

A few years after that I would have said yeah because they need to consider what sonic as a brand, is.

Now? I'm no , for a different reason. Simply put, I think someone else should be making the games, I don't think a break requires that.

1 hour ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

This is the primary reason mania (and adventures!) was so exciting to people like me: it proved that sonic is still easily capable of putting out A quality, near-universally applauded content when it wants to; beneath all of the many weird ideas and inconsistencies the franchise has had, there is still a uniquely "sonic" identity in there. SEGA and whoever else is responsible, to be frank, needs to take a serious look at majorly cutting or restructuring the rest of the bullcrap and focusing primarily on the uniquely sonic-y stuff.

The issue is that what " sonic-ey " stuff means differen't things to different people and is a pretty nebulous term fueled by nostalgia that largely means nothing

What they should do, is whatever they are doing, do it well. And if they are going to appeal to some branch of nostalgia, do that game how it should be. The reason that mania is applauded and forces isn't, isn't because one is more sonic-ey than another. That's some bullshit gatekeeping. Its because Mania knows what it is , and is what it is. And forces is trying to appeal to 3 fanbases at once. If they make " Sonic adventure 1 + 2 " remake and those games are good, people would applaud that shit too, and that's hella different than classic sonic.

So you are looking at this from an extremely limited perspective. Its not about doing " sonic-ey " shit, its about doing stuff well

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10 hours ago, Rowl said:

Yes, they should. But sadly they can't. There are no other games that can fill in the gabs. Nintendo can take a break with Mario, because they have other series that sell: Zelda, DKC, Kirby, Pokémon, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, Splatoon, etc. 

What does Sega have that sells here in the west besides Sonic? Nights is dead, Jet Radio is dead, Super Monkey Ball is gone, so is Skies of Arcadia, Billy Hatcher and Space Channel 5. Sonic is the only thing that really sells well here. Even the worst Sonic could sell more than some of Sega's best other Ips

This isn't 2007. Sega has been pretty good on the acquisition front lately between pickups like Atlas and creative assembly they actually have some good franchises to fall back on. they've also found a lot of success releasing some of their remastered games on steam. 

Sonic isn't a single beacon of productivity for the company anymore. 

8 hours ago, Plasme said:

Sure, but if you all genuinely believe Sonic Team will never get it right and it's all just a pipe dream, maybe the practical solution is for Sonic just to die.

People are hardest on the things they love the most. If we weren't so dedicated to seeing improvements we wouldn't care half as much.

 

Giving up is out of the question. You just got to keep working till it's fixed and go from there.

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I feel like the odd man out for like not passionately hating everything done with this franchise. 

I can't really speak for the quality of Lost World or Forces but they don't look that bad to me. At least Lost World tried to do something different. Maybe it didn't work too well but the game looks fine from the LP I watched of it.

Forces honestly looked alright to me too. Maybe not the greatest thing ever but it looked like a game I'd at least play every now and then. 

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14 hours ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

Forces was much more Kishimoto’s game than Iizuka’s, and he wasn’t even the sole producer on Forces, a role he had on every mainline game since Colors. I’m not claiming to know what’s actually going on over there but it seems to me that Iizuka didn’t have as much to do with Forces as usual. 

Huh. That's interesting to know.

11 hours ago, Rowl said:

Yes, they should. But sadly they can't. There are no other games that can fill in the gabs. Nintendo can take a break with Mario, because they have other series that sell: Zelda, DKC, Kirby, Pokémon, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, Splatoon, etc. 

What does Sega have that sells here in the west besides Sonic? Nights is dead, Jet Radio is dead, Super Monkey Ball is gone, so is Skies of Arcadia, Billy Hatcher and Space Channel 5. Sonic is the only thing that really sells well here. Even the worst Sonic could sell more than some of Sega's best other IPs.

Sega and ST have no other choice to produce more and more of Sonic. They can't take a break, even if they want. 

     

That is very unfortunate.

9 hours ago, Ruomarta said:

 It's so frustrating that they don't stick to what works and build from there. Like come on, is it really THAT HARD to do? This is a series that has quality control at its worst.

To be fair, they have technically done that: the Adventure formula was explicitly used for two games plus being the basis that Shadow's Game & 06 were operating off of, while the Boost Formula started getting a steady promotion over time from it's initial use in Rush to being implemented into Unleashed and almost every game afterwards.

I think the problem there is that they keep getting a bit bored with them and try either mixing them something to keep it fresh or dropping it entirely once it's been enough.

Forces in particular is what happened when they earnestly tried something new with Lost World only for it's reception to be all over the place.

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focusing releases and sparsing them could work i guess. sonic being a flagship of sega doesn't really amount to much anymore since there's not many sales - of a console, of other franchises, whatever - sonic can generate anyway. major releases probably have made less money as of late (dont have the numbers tho). so sonic is a niche game now and should adjust to the current circumstances

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11 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

This isn't 2007. Sega has been pretty good on the acquisition front lately between pickups like Atlas and creative assembly they actually have some good franchises to fall back on. they've also found a lot of success releasing some of their remastered games on steam. 

Sonic isn't a single beacon of productivity for the company anymore. 

People are hardest on the things they love the most. If we weren't so dedicated to seeing improvements we wouldn't care half as much.

 

Giving up is out of the question. You just got to keep working till it's fixed and go from there.

Still, most of the IPs are NICHE. The only IP that is possibly considered mainstream is Persona, but that's only because of their recent game being Persona 5.  But that IP doesn't have the brand power as say Super Mario, Halo, Pokémon, Call of Duty, The Legend of Zelda, Splatoon, The Last of Us, Uncharted, Gears of War, Resident Evil, Fallout, The Elder Scrolls, Assassin's Creed, Mario Kart, Final Fantasy, etc. Please don't misinterpret this because I'm not saying they should give up either, but please name one franchise besides Persona that is just as mainstreamed as the ones I listed?

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The benefit of having Sonic disappear for a decade is to gain momentum: To be able to try a convincing propaganda of "Sonic is back", as the bad memories may not be decisive on making the public ignore the franchise anymore. A good combo would be having a lore reboot, as well.

Anyway, you guys are mistaken if you think that Sonic sales are that vital. What truly gives them money and keeps the whole thing alive are pachinko machines - a similar situation that Konami currently is, too.

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12 hours ago, Rowl said:

Sonic Team has to understand Sonic... that is true. This is something every create should no about their art.... but... can Sega and Sonic Team understand Sonic. Does anyone on this planet understands Sonic? I for sure don't. The only thing I know of this series is that that main character is fast and that he is blue. And that's about it.

The series tried pretty much everything at this point and chances a lot. Level design, gameplay, tone, world, backstory, lore, controls etc. Sonic as a series can't really decided what it truly want's to be.

Nintendo for example understands Mario: It is a colorful, happy-go-lucky, jump'n run series that takes place in the Mushroom Kingdom. Even series like Zelda and Kirby, who always bring something new to table, can keep the core elements of the series alive. This is sadly not the case with Sonic.  

So what you're saying Christian Whitehead does'nt understand Sonic.

I see.

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8 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Years Ago I would say no they can do it

A few years after that I would have said yeah because they need to consider what sonic as a brand, is.

Now? I'm no , for a different reason. Simply put, I think someone else should be making the games, I don't think a break requires that.

The issue is that what " sonic-ey " stuff means differen't things to different people and is a pretty nebulous term fueled by nostalgia that largely means nothing

What they should do, is whatever they are doing, do it well. And if they are going to appeal to some branch of nostalgia, do that game how it should be. The reason that mania is applauded and forces isn't, isn't because one is more sonic-ey than another. That's some bullshit gatekeeping. Its because Mania knows what it is , and is what it is. And forces is trying to appeal to 3 fanbases at once. If they make " Sonic adventure 1 + 2 " remake and those games are good, people would applaud that shit too, and that's hella different than classic sonic.

So you are looking at this from an extremely limited perspective. Its not about doing " sonic-ey " shit, its about doing stuff well

What I said isnt bullshit gate keeping. Most every franchise has an identity or set of expectations when you play the games. Whether or not that is like classic sonic or modern sonic, being consistent is crucial to building and maintaining success. The reason I brought up mania is because mania is built on the same formula that the series was established on, and not coincidentally reached its peak of popularity and success with. I absolutely do think that sonic could have good success sticking with what hes done with more modern titles like colors and generations as well, but I also think that it is very obvious that the Sonic we saw presented in mania and mania adventures was the best received we've seen the character since the 90s. That is "sonic-y", it's not a nebulous concept, it's something well and easily understood by most people with a quick glance at this series. It's a little silly to me when people pretend like this is some super abstract thing, when it's not. The vibe presented there is what the series was most known and successful with so I think it is just common sense to embrace what obviously works. 

Sonic doesnt have to be any which way. I just think its be best if he focuses on what he does best. And contrary to what some people might believe, there is such an obvious definition for sonic.

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4 hours ago, Ruomarta said:

 Please don't misinterpret this because I'm not saying they should give up either, but please name one franchise besides Persona that is just as mainstreamed as the ones I listed?

Uhh... off the top of my head...

Yakuza and Total War. Both of these release more or less on an annual schedule and sell enough to be labeled as mainstream. Bayonetta too... depending on who owns what with that franchise now. Not sure where that pans out.

Then you have the licenses that would be worth alot if they could build the game around it (*cough*Sonic*cough*). Every Alien Game they pump out is met with excitement and high hopes. (*cough*soundsfamiliar*cough*)

Sure they have a lot of niche IPs, but they have enough big ones to last a couple of years without Sonic if they absolutely had too. Not to mention that after being absorbed by Sammy, Sega deosn't even have to carry the financial burden alone. The company has a more stable profit flow from arcades and pachinco gambling to fall back on. They don't have to fear going bankrupt after a game doesn't sell. Sega lived for a spell after both Boom games barley made a ripple on the sales charts. No reason they can't survive an absence if they plan other releases to fill in the gaps.

Furthermore, niche IPs can be profitable if you target and prepare them correctly. Sega specifically took this approach when they re-organized their business structure to line up to the mentality Atlus takes when releasing games and gauging the market. Look over at Valkyria. That was a series long since left for dead. Sega took the Atlus approach - tested the waters with a steam release followed up with a remaster of the original and then delivered Val 4. If you map out your target audience and gauge intensity, you can succeed by selling niche IPs. And you can't tell me there wouldn't be a market for a Jet Set or a Phantasy Star.

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2 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Uhh... off the top of my head...

Yakuza and Total War. Both of these release more or less on an annual schedule and sell enough to be labeled as mainstream. Bayonetta too... depending on who owns what with that franchise now. Not sure where that pans out.

Then you have the licenses that would be worth alot if they could build the game around it (*cough*Sonic*cough*). Every Alien Game they pump out is met with excitement and high hopes. (*cough*soundsfamiliar*cough*)

Sure they have a lot of niche IPs, but they have enough big ones to last a couple of years without Sonic if they absolutely had too. Not to mention that after being absorbed by Sammy, Sega deosn't even have to carry the financial burden alone. The company has a more stable profit flow from arcades and pachinco gambling to fall back on. They don't have to fear going bankrupt after a game doesn't sell. Sega lived for a spell after both Boom games barley made a ripple on the sales charts. No reason they can't survive an absence if they plan other releases to fill in the gaps.

Furthermore, niche IPs can be profitable if you target and prepare them correctly. Sega specifically took this approach when they re-organized their business structure to line up to the mentality Atlus takes when releasing games and gauging the market. Look over at Valkyria. That was a series long since left for dead. Sega took the Atlus approach - tested the waters with a steam release followed up with a remaster of the original and then delivered Val 4. If you map out your target audience and gauge intensity, you can succeed by selling niche IPs. And you can't tell me there wouldn't be a market for a Jet Set or a Phantasy Star.

Well, I guess you're right. I'm hoping I didn't come off too aggressive towards you. I was just bringing up what is honestly to me is the hard cold truth. Also, I'm actually glad you brought up Total War because I forgot that series was still a big thing.

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Quote

Sonic doesnt have to be any which way. I just think its be best if he focuses on what he does best. And contrary to what some people might believe, there is such an obvious definition for sonic.

I could address a lot of your post, but lets talk about this last part

So, ok.

So if someone grew up with sonic adventure. And prefers that

And someone else grew up with classic sonic

They both have the obvious perception of what sonic is supposed to be? Are you serious? No, they don't, they have two different perspectives on what the brand is, and this happens all the time in brands and what do they do? They make different shit for those people. Not every versions of the Teen Titains, Titains, Young Justice what have you looks the same because peoples perceptions on what those characters are supposed to be are different. So they just make different shit. People do this all the time

The only unique unifying force in this scenario is the characters, and the vague notion of going fast , depending on what type of game it is. Other than that? I dunno just do it good

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3 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

I could address a lot of your post, but lets talk about this last part

So, ok.

So if someone grew up with sonic adventure. And prefers that

And someone else grew up with classic sonic

They both have the obvious perception of what sonic is supposed to be? Are you serious? No, they don't, they have two different perspectives on what the brand is, and this happens all the time in brands and what do they do? They make different shit for those people. Not every versions of the Teen Titains, Titains, Young Justice what have you looks the same because peoples perceptions on what those characters are supposed to be are different. So they just make different shit. People do this all the time

The only unique unifying force in this scenario is the characters, and the vague notion of going fast , depending on what type of game it is. Other than that? I dunno just do it good

Right, to that individual, sonic may mean something different than to the next fan. That much is understood, no need to explain. But the point is that Sonic has undeniably experienced his greatest success and most recognition by follow the classic/mania style, much more than at any other time in the franchise history and is still recognized for it. So regardless of our disagreements as fans, that much is true. I would only argue that since sonic has mostly floundered over the last 20 years with an identity crisis, it's best to give him a consistent identity to build on rather than continue to throw different shit at the wall like has been done since the adventure games, good ideas or not. Also this is not me saying I'm ignoring all other history in the franchise and all else is bad, just that sonic really badly needs to focus. What better opportunity than after the highested rated game and well received cartoon in 20 years? It's my opinion that we should do this, it's not gospel. Modern sonic can also find ways to survive and move forward with success too, if he picks a good direction and stays consistent. I just think at this point it's kind of obvious what needs to be done.

3 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

I could address a lot of your post, but lets talk about this last part

So, ok.

So if someone grew up with sonic adventure. And prefers that

And someone else grew up with classic sonic

They both have the obvious perception of what sonic is supposed to be? Are you serious? No, they don't, they have two different perspectives on what the brand is, and this happens all the time in brands and what do they do? They make different shit for those people. Not every versions of the Teen Titains, Titains, Young Justice what have you looks the same because peoples perceptions on what those characters are supposed to be are different. So they just make different shit. People do this all the time

The only unique unifying force in this scenario is the characters, and the vague notion of going fast , depending on what type of game it is. Other than that? I dunno just do it good

Right, to that individual, sonic may mean something different than to the next fan. That much is understood, no need to explain. But the point is that Sonic has undeniably experienced his greatest success and most recognition by follow the classic/mania style, much more than at any other time in the franchise history and is still recognized for it. So regardless of our disagreements as fans, that much is true. I would only argue that since sonic has mostly floundered over the last 20 years with an identity crisis, it's best to give him a consistent identity to build on rather than continue to throw different shit at the wall like has been done since the adventure games, good ideas or not. Also this is not me saying I'm ignoring all other history in the franchise and all else is bad, just that sonic really badly needs to focus. What better opportunity than after the highested rated game and well received cartoon in 20 years? It's my opinion that we should do this, it's not gospel. Modern sonic can also find ways to survive and move forward with success too, if he picks a good direction and stays consistent. I just think at this point it's kind of obvious what needs to be done.

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I don't want them to stop working on Sonic games.  But I'd like them to keep working on a game until they can make it something really great.

Of course, the problem with this approach with regards to Modern Sonic is that it might not have a unified enough identity to give them a good idea of what makes it great.  Unless they settle on the boost, in which case making next game will be a matter of choosing what other gameplay gimmick they want to pad it out.

Meanwhile, Classic Sonic has a definitive enough identity, and 2D games are easy enough to make, that sequels to Sonic Mania can be released more frequently to keep making money and keep reminding people Sonic exists.

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9 hours ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Right, to that individual, sonic may mean something different than to the next fan. That much is understood, no need to explain.

 

But the point is that Sonic has undeniably experienced his greatest success and most recognition by follow the classic/mania style, much more than at any other time in the franchise history and is still recognized for it.

How are you measuring  this?

Because Recognition doesn't really matter here its about how much money their making, and all versions of sonic make money whether it be by video games or different pieces of media or merch. And because of that as a business getting rid of other versions of sonic, kind of seems really dumb and like someone who doesn't understand how business works is trying to gate keep while saying he's not.

" OH MAN MARVEL MOVIES MAKE THE MOST MONEY BETTER GET RID OF ALL OUR OTHER BUSINESS "

That's stupid, and your proof is nebulous at best

Quote

So regardless of our disagreements as fans, that much is true.

No its not

Considering Modern sonic has been in main operation since... 1998 that has probably made the most money over time

Quote

 

I would only argue that since sonic has mostly floundered over the last 20 years with an identity crisis, it's best to give him a consistent identity to build on rather than continue to throw different shit at the wall like has been done since the adventure games, good ideas or not.

Or just make different things for different people like everyone else

Quote

 

Also this is not me saying I'm ignoring all other history in the franchise and all else is bad, just that sonic really badly needs to focus. What better opportunity than after the highested rated game and well received cartoon in 20 years?

Or just make that for the people who want that , while also making other money.

Quote

 

It's my opinion that we should do this, it's not gospel. Modern sonic can also find ways to survive and move forward with success too, if he picks a good direction and stays consistent. I just think at this point it's kind of obvious what needs to be done.

 

And I want to be clear here, I'm not trying to be rude , but your solution is operating under the assumption that a businesses core goal is not to make money. It is, and while yeah they might wanna clean 3d sonic up to make a bit more money, that doesn't mean they have to shut down classic sonic to do it, and vice versa. Its a complete failure to understand a functioning business , and only obvious to people like you who I guess are so self centered self absorbed in their own little bubble that they can't comprehend that other audiences exist and can serve to make people different types of money. And this has been a thing that's been happening for years. Its why you can have batman stories where he's dealing horrific crimes and another that's all kid friendly, yeah one might be better than the other at any given time. But the idea one needs to be shut down because of that is at best ignorant, AT BEST.

Sorry my response took so long,  I had to find the right words to try and explain to you. But I often lacked them, your idea of going forward is not only bad for fans, its bad for business and you gain nothing from doing it. Usually when people pitch ideas they like yeah sometimes other people might get thrown under the bus but there's some net gain to be had, but there's none here for you. Its illogical, you gain nothing with this suggestion, you can keep getting more classic sonic now, with 3d sonic existing enjoy that. Is your issue that you are upset some reviewers might not like 3d sonic or some video game players? Who gives a shit, you literally have the thing you wanted. Classic sonic is back, he's his own brand, he's getting games, he's getting cartoons, he is separate from his 3d counterpart and doing his own thing. And you can't be ased enough to look outside of yourself for one moment and think " Maybe I can just be cool, and ignore the stuff I don't like ". The thread is about whether sonic should take a break, not what you think the franchise should focus on , and you have made abundantly clear what your intentions are.

 

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I feel like you're overlooking the costs in trying to appeal to everyone/multiple different groups. There certainly are some properties strong enough to support multiple different iterations, but there are tons that aren't, or that simply choose not to in favor of a consistent identity with more consistent appeal. And as much as you want to press the idea that they should just make something for everyone so everyone gives them money, that doesn't take into account that making more things costs more money, and each is only designed to appeal to a fraction of all sonic fans.

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12 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I feel like you're overlooking the costs in trying to appeal to everyone/multiple different groups. There certainly are some properties strong enough to support multiple different iterations, but there are tons that aren't, or that simply choose not to in favor of a consistent identity with more consistent appeal. And as much as you want to press the idea that they should just make something for everyone so everyone gives them money, that doesn't take into account that making more things costs more money, and each is only designed to appeal to a fraction of all sonic fans.

This makes no sense?

Sega had enough cash or rather, Sonic Team was apparently valuable enough to sega they tried to do an entirely new spin off series in sonic boom with a cartoon, several video games and a comic book for a limited amount of time. And its failings weren't in its costs but rather it just wasn't appealing.

Smaller Scale 2d sprite based titles , a comic book and cartoon shorts aren't really breaking sonic bank. And allows 3d sonic to focus on what they want to focus on instead of trying to appeal to everyone.

Not every fraction of sonic fan should get their thing, they aren't large enough to require that. Its why we are never seeing the freedom fighters again. But that said, Classic sonic and Adventure-ey era/ Modern sonic are big enough to sustain that. And setting up audince expectations for different versions of these characters and games allows for you to experiment if you want to start more branches down the line, differen't characters gameplay types... what have you.  But The idea of what is happening now somehow costs a grip is...funny.

Sonic is a franchise that's large enough to sustain this, and should have been doing this years ago.

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Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2019 at 3:13 PM, Shadowlax said:

Its not about doing " sonic-ey " shit, its about doing stuff well

I don't entirely agree.

Yes, it's about doing stuff well in general, but when it comes to a specific series, like Sonic, it is important to identify what makes a Sonic game a Sonic game.

For example, one of the primary reasons why I do not find Sonic Lost World appealing is because it does not feel like a Sonic game, it comes off as an unfocused, lesser Mario game, with a Sonic coat of paint slapped on. Sonic Lost World is very unappealing to me for 2 key reasons, A: the gameplay doesn't feel like a Sonic game, and B: hardly any of its ideas are ever fleshed out or realised well, and it spitballs with too many gameplay styles, mastering none of them in the process.

Sonic Lost World is a prime example of a game that lacks any identity, and most crucially in that game's specific case, it lacks the core identity of being a Sonic game.

Edited by Naean

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7 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

How are you measuring  this?

Because Recognition doesn't really matter here its about how much money their making, and all versions of sonic make money whether it be by video games or different pieces of media or merch. And because of that as a business getting rid of other versions of sonic, kind of seems really dumb and like someone who doesn't understand how business works is trying to gate keep while saying he's not.

" OH MAN MARVEL MOVIES MAKE THE MOST MONEY BETTER GET RID OF ALL OUR OTHER BUSINESS "

That's stupid, and your proof is nebulous at best

No its not

Considering Modern sonic has been in main operation since... 1998 that has probably made the most money over time

Or just make different things for different people like everyone else

Or just make that for the people who want that , while also making other money.

And I want to be clear here, I'm not trying to be rude , but your solution is operating under the assumption that a businesses core goal is not to make money. It is, and while yeah they might wanna clean 3d sonic up to make a bit more money, that doesn't mean they have to shut down classic sonic to do it, and vice versa. Its a complete failure to understand a functioning business , and only obvious to people like you who I guess are so self centered self absorbed in their own little bubble that they can't comprehend that other audiences exist and can serve to make people different types of money. And this has been a thing that's been happening for years. Its why you can have batman stories where he's dealing horrific crimes and another that's all kid friendly, yeah one might be better than the other at any given time. But the idea one needs to be shut down because of that is at best ignorant, AT BEST.

Sorry my response took so long,  I had to find the right words to try and explain to you. But I often lacked them, your idea of going forward is not only bad for fans, its bad for business and you gain nothing from doing it. Usually when people pitch ideas they like yeah sometimes other people might get thrown under the bus but there's some net gain to be had, but there's none here for you. Its illogical, you gain nothing with this suggestion, you can keep getting more classic sonic now, with 3d sonic existing enjoy that. Is your issue that you are upset some reviewers might not like 3d sonic or some video game players? Who gives a shit, you literally have the thing you wanted. Classic sonic is back, he's his own brand, he's getting games, he's getting cartoons, he is separate from his 3d counterpart and doing his own thing. And you can't be ased enough to look outside of yourself for one moment and think " Maybe I can just be cool, and ignore the stuff I don't like ". The thread is about whether sonic should take a break, not what you think the franchise should focus on , and you have made abundantly clear what your intentions are.

 

Right as I said, my point isnt that all other sonic media should be erased from existence. I thought my post was clear in that. I said sonic badly needs to focus the brand. In my opinion, that would entail putting the classic/mania style stuff at the forefront of the brand and building on it, in both 2D and 3D. I also absolutely would find ways for the boost and adventure stuff to exist in other ways as long as the budget allows, because there is demand for it, but as for the primary representation of the series, I would focus on a consistent identity so that people know what they're primarily getting from this series. Honestly, its be quite similar to how mario offers its products, with a big budget main title every 4 years or so and then a few spin offs every other year. 

The brand confusion does play a role in sales and success ultimately, and I could probably post some things to support this argument but wont because I'm lazy and you can just look it up.

I'm ultimately not terribly interested in comparing what I like to what other sonic fans like because its beside the point, and I dont care. People have their tastes. My point about the classic/mania stuff is the SEGA has said a number of times publicly even recently that they know their brand was at its strongest during that time and they want to get it back to that status. This is pretty common knowledge to anyone who is even remotely aware of sonic's history since the 90s. And with mania's recent success, the most we've seen in a very long time...I mean I feel like theres not much that needs to be said here, it should be plain as day.

I'm not an adventure hater or boost hater. I just want sonic to be self consistent, fun, and successful whatever direction he decides to go in. It just seems clear to me what direction that should be based on the franchise past and recent history.

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